The Simtropolis Closet

[Boggy1 45]

I've always thought that Sim City has been a very "gay" game, just look at the vast ammount of gay people who play it.

I'm not sure why that is..maybe because in Sim City you have to be very creative and actually work hard to do things, to build them up from scratch, and that is something that gay people are very good at (something about there being more neuron connections between both left and right hemispheres of the brain).

[Zelgadis 638]

Perhaps we like building cities and imagining there's no bigots in them. That's what I do.

ISF

[josue 0]

Sorry barbarossa, you're right and excuse me for my english.

I'm agree with you both Boggy1 and Zelgadis. Also I have a theory about gays use to like maps, small scale things and that kind of stuff, I've got many gay friends that like it. and when I was i child my favourite toy it was playmobil.

Actually I'm triying to build a gay neighbourhood in my city, I've got 6underground's gay bar and zelgadis's flags, do you know any other gay stuff? (erdmoebel and odd from sweden bats are also very good for that) and I think we could open a thread "Show us your gay neighbourhood".

[s.i.X 13]

"just look at the vast amount of gay people who play it."

How many of them are openly gay in real life? The internet has a lot of gay people because they feel 'safer' here, and are more willing to admit they're gay. I'd say the amount of gay forumers here is proportionate to reality.

[clubberdude1981 0]

I'm Gay.

Just thought i'd join in. Oh, and i'm pretty much out to everyone, very open about it.

You probably wouldn't know I was gay mind, if you met me on the street.

[Mr. Glamazon 9]

Amerikaner and I were talking about how queer it was that the ST forums had so many gays. I mean, in my experience (hahaha, generalisations! AHHH!) I don't know too many queers who enjoy videogames. Personally, I don't have any others other than SimCity4, and it sounded like Luke agreed with me. I think S.I.X. made a great point too, real life can be pretty intimidating when it comes to finding yourself. I just always found it strange.

Welcome, Clubberdude1981!

[GingerBlokey 30]

I only play SC4. I dont play any other games. The only ones Ive ever played are The Sims, RCT, Rainbow Six and Formula One.

[The boy formerly known as Evil Muzz 27]

I don't think SC4 is a gay game at all... It annyos me how all the best stuff gets branded gay. The YMCA for example!

But seriously, although I am 100% tolerant of gays, it does seem to me that when the gay community takes to something, it seems to repel all heterosexuals from it. That may not be gay communities fault, it probably isn't but that annoys me somewhat that our society is like that. Somewhere Over the Rainbow is a lovely song, but it's association with gayness is very loose (Song>Judy Garland> Liza Minelli>Gays ... Apparently), but it would still be enough to earn you a slagging off from the intolerant people in society... And YMCA is a quality song, btw.

[Zelgadis 638]

I think, Muzz, that the desire here is that the goal isn't necessarily to kick the heterosexuals out but rather to have some things to ourselves that we can enjoy in peace without threat of bigots lurking around. So yes, we tend to appropriate things.

That said anyone care for some Madonna?

ISF

[The boy formerly known as Evil Muzz 27]

Nah, you can keep her.

[ccecill 52]

well, I'm Bi... which is a hard thing to be open with in Mississippi.

[manman99 2]

i dont really kno wut i am!? Im Bi, but out of 100% Im 90% gay and 10% straight, which is weird because I still find this one girl attractive and yet, all my true friends are girls, only one knows, and she lives 700 miles away from me. No one else knows. Im really not in a good postion for any of that. Considereing that my older sister is a lesbian and my parents kno, and its not a good time because I think my dad would disown me. But I never really liked him anyways. My mom keeps asking me "are you pretty jake" "pretty" as in Gay. I say "no ma, and i yell at her, my close feelings wit my family arent really that close at all. Its just not one of my top things to tell my family, my friends though, of course id tell them, not yet though.

But until then!....................Manman99 makes his famous Marinated steak, grilled to perfection, nothing burnt or blackened, a lil spicy, a lil tangy, alil everything!!

And Ceasar Salad for the Vegetarians!

[Zelgadis 638]

manman99: I think your mom already knows. Moms are like that. But good luck anyway when you decide to take the plunge and start telling.

ccecil: Hard in Mississippi indeed. It was hard enough for me in Kentucky. There is a lot of open hostility to sexual minorities there. I'm sure everybody here from the US has seen those redneck trucks with the sticker of the boy peeing on a Ford or Chevy logo right? I saw one once where the logo was replaced with the word "fags." I was suddenly reminded of my father, who often says things like "I wish I had an old truck that I didn't care about. Then I'd just crash into him." He usually reserves this sentiment for when people cut him off and whatnot, but I was wishing for just that right then. Unfortunately, I think my Acura vs. a 20-year-old Ford F-250 Super Duty would spell disaster for me.

ISF

[jammy 0]

hey everyone!

I was wondering what people here on simtropolis think of GLBT rights?

I live in the UK and am gay, everyone in my secondary (high school) knows and dont mind at all, in fact I think I have more friends now than I did before I came out! 

The thing is I have not told my perants because I dont think their generation are quite so laid back on these things which is horrible in my opinion!

Anyway what do you think about the whole thing?

Amazingly in 9 countries including most of the middle eastern countries it is punishable by death to be a GLBT person which i also think is disgusting.

PS: GLBT = Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgendered

JaMmY!

Thanku

[jammy 0]

exactly thats what I think! In some cases it has gone to far in the opposite direction where gay people have ended up having more rights than straight people which is also wrong

[Zwabberaar 18]

No more and no less rights then everybody else. We all have equal rights in my opinion.

[Kevin 101]

Everyone should have the same rights... I don't really understand how this could be debatable.

[DuskTrooper 314]

Before you complain about how little rights you have where you are, just take into perspective that there is someone else out there, perhaps somewhere else, that has less rights and opportunities than what you have. 

Take that however you seem fit.

[Zelgadis 638]

When there is no more bigotry in the world, then the need for special protections for specific groups will also disappear. Until then, those protections are necessary. I grew up in a place where I literally feared for my life every time I walked out my door, for gays were, and are still, "open season." I never let fear rule me though, but the specter of... well... almost anything was constantly looking over my shoulder.

As far as I can tell, the most that LGBT and other minority groups have over the "majority," is hate crime legislation in some places and equal opportunity housing and employment protections. Those aren't special rights. Those are meant to ensure that we do have the same rights as everyone else.

I have to say, I'm glad I live in Canada now, where I truly am equal.

ISF

[Zelgadis 638]

Of course it is perspective. But it's also better to complain about my own culture before I go criticizing another. For right now, I'm going to do it anyway though: Death penalty for being gay is truly despicable.

@jammy: Congrats on being out in high school. Another matter of perspective there, I think. I shudder to think what would have happened to me if I had come out in high school. I rather suspect that, had I survived it, I would have ended up in the hospital on many occasions.

In the end, in one country, I'd be locked up and put to death for holding hands with my boyfriend. In my own country (well, former country), I'd have likely been beaten by a mob of bigots. There's really not much difference between the two, is there?

ISF

[Zelgadis 638]

Actually, Voar Tok, that is a misinterpretation of hate crime laws. Granted, they can be abused in that way on occasion, but the primary focus of hate crimes is an "enhancement" of crimes that were the victim was targeted specifically because of their sexuality.

Case in point: There was a small gang that went to a gay chat room to pick up a guy with promises of sex so that they could rob him for drug money. Their thinking being that a gay man would be more passive and easier to rob. In the course of the robbery, the victim was killed. When the defendants were brought to trial, it was done so with hate crime enhancement. One of the defendants dropped the bombshell that he, himself, was gay. However, the court ruled that the hate crime enhancement would stand because the victim was targeted specifically because he was gay.

Straight people don't need such protections as far as I can tell. I can't ever remember anyone ever being targeted for any crime specifically because they were straight...

ISF

[Voar Tok 4]

While I believe that everyone is entitled to exactly the same rights as everyone else regardless of sex, race, sexual preferences, etc. I have a problem when hate crimes start to get involved here because some of them are too easily manipulated. For example, if it is a hate crime for a straight person to hit a gay person, and not the other way around, what's to stop a straight person from getting in a fight and then claiming that they're gay. Bar fights are rarely proceeded by "are you gay?" and then the fight being dropped because the guy is gay. More often than not, that kind of an issue doesn't come out until after the fight is over and the police reports are filed. The deal is, what's to prevent from someone from getting whooped in a fight and then claiming that they're gay. The police are never going to ask them to prove that, so they can use it as a free ticket to either get a reduced sentence, or try to put their adversary away for a longer period of time.

Basically, I see value to the thinking behind it, but too much room for abuse.

[jammy 0]

the fact is that in the western world there is generally equal rights apart from severe hate crimes feom minoruty groups of people but in around 80% of the worlds countries it is unlawful to be a little different from other people.

[Meg 368]

I was discussing this with my British friends a while ago.  They were surprised to find out that GLBT people are not part of a protected class in the USA.

Take the fair housing law:

Title VIII of the Civil Rights Act of 1968 (Fair Housing Act), as amended, prohibits discrimination in the sale, rental, and financing of dwellings, and in other housing-related transactions, based on race, color, national origin, religion, sex, familial status (including children under the age of 18 living with parents of legal custodians, pregnant women, and people securing custody of children under the age of 18), and handicap (disability).quote>

or the employment law:

Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Title VII), which prohibits employment discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, or national originquote>

and so forth.

The reason for this is fairly obvious:  there is a large group of Americans who object to GLBT people on religious grounds.  One could argue that is a violation of church and state, letting religious beliefs dictate discriminatory laws.

Personally, I think the proposed amendment against gay marriage is absurd.   Not only is it wrong to use the Constitution as a vehicle for discrimination, we have some real problems to do deal with and I don't see how banning gay marriage can be high on the list of priorities. 

Let's go deal with the war, or the terrorists, or our inability to respond to a hurricane, or the fact that the news bureaus are obsessed with which celebrity is in jail or lost custody of their kids or got arrested instead of actually reporting on the real issues and problems.  Why waste time, energy, and money fussing over what consenting adults are doing in private?

[DuskTrooper 314]

As Kinky Friedman said, "I believe they(gays) have a right to be as miserable as the rest of us".

[Zelgadis 638]

It is tricky to do so, true. And the burden of proof of a hate crime enhancement is on the prosecution. Basically, that means they have two jobs (more if there are multiple charges): First, prove that the defendant committed the crime. And second, prove that the defendant committed a hate crime.  (This is how it works, as I understand it anyway.  I could be wrong.)   As I see it, it's no more or less flawed than the rest of the justice system. Sometimes it's easy. Hanging a black man from a tree or cruising a gay chat room for an easy victim is mostly cut and dried. But examples like the ones you mentioned are not. If the system is functioning properly, the prosecutor will have to prove a hate crime took place. 

Although it is true that the system isn't perfect...

ISF

[Voar Tok 4]

Originally posted by: zelgadis Actually, Voar Tok, that is a misinterpretation of hate crime laws. Granted, they can be abused in that way on occasion, but the primary focus of hate crimes is an "enhancement" of crimes that were the victim was targeted specifically because of their sexuality.

Case in point: There was a small gang that went to a gay chat room to pick up a guy with promises of sex so that they could rob him for drug money. Their thinking being that a gay man would be more passive and easier to rob. In the course of the robbery, the victim was killed. When the defendants were brought to trial, it was done so with hate crime enhancement. One of the defendants dropped the bombshell that he, himself, was gay. However, the court ruled that the hate crime enhancement would stand because the victim was targeted specifically because he was gay.

Straight people don't need such protections as far as I can tell. I can't ever remember anyone ever being targeted for any crime specifically because they were straight...

ISF

quote>

Agreed.  The thing is though, it's very difficult to prove whether or not the crime was induced by virtue of the person's race, sexual preferences, etc.  When you start getting into the area where you assault and rob someone, and and somewhere in the police investigation, it turns out that the guy you assaulted is gay, how does one prove or disprove that you knew that before you tried to take his stuff?

Again, I'm not trying to say that hate crime laws are inherently bad.  The main thing is that this is an issue where there's considerably more room for abuse than I personally think is acceptable.  And the ramifications for hate crimes are usually somewhat more drastic.  The concept is understandable.  The implementation though is kind of bad in my opinion.

Does that successfully convey what I'm trying to say?

[Voar Tok 4]

zel: Yeah, it would be up to the prosecution to prove that the hate crime took place. And no, the legal system is perfect.

[GingerBlokey 30]

I came out at 13 in high school and I had very little problems. Infact Ive had very few problems indeed. The world is alot more tolerent to a gay man who isnt affeminate in my experience. My mother has been brilliant and she thinks my boyfriend is the best thing since sliced bread. Im 16 and in college now and I have not had a single comment which is insulting about my sexuality or weight or hair colour and its the best fun Ive ever had.

Personally not to sound lazy but I think gay rights is something other people campaign about. I have strong feelings about too much else (global warming, ammnesty interenational etc etc) to have time to worry about gay rights.

[hamsterTK 93]

the question is whether or not the very small handful of abuse situations should justify not having what can be a useful vehicle for throwing the book at some serious criminals who might otherwise get away with the lesser charges

This goes for all kinds of laws