SimCity: Unleashed (SimCity 4.5 Revival)

[simmaster07 1,221]

Slot 1 for testing filled by earwax_man.

[Ntq€310 1]

In general I think this is quite a good effort. Since honestly It would be quite useful to have the Bat, what it needs to work, and even a set of bats that can go with it all right there an easy to download. However, I suggest that this be downloadable, and if it has any cost it would be to support the simcity community in general. Who knows.. maybe a joint sc4d-peg-st download of everything the average user could possible want or need, minus the hours looking for the thing in the first place. One can dream but good luck simmaster.

[SimFox 804]

yep managers…

08/12/2008 07:40 PM

IMPORTANT NEWS The list here will no longer be updated and has been moved to a new wiki. This forum post will now be used to report problems and to request I add content to the list. The new wiki for this list can be found here. Please note the wiki is incomplete at the moment. Please contribute to the wiki and help complete it to make room for expansion.

08/18/2008 06:45 PM

ERRR... MORE IMPORTANT NEWS The list here will continue to be updated since I have nothing else to do

08/20/2008 06:44 PM

After quite some time, the list has been updated. Wow, that took quite some time. =\

quote>

OK you wanna make it a disk. right?

How you, Mr. manager will be financing the production?

How do you plan to recover the cost?

You can’t sell any of the content, not only because you would get all the necessary permission (warrior, for instance already declined his and without it you aren’t sell NAM and without NAM there isn’t any definitive upgrade) But simply because the licence of BAT expressly forbid it!

And NO model could be made without it!

So you can’t sell ANY buildings, props etc.! Manager should know things like that.

You want to do something for good for community? DO something, create something before you try to manage something others had created.

You plan now to have a beta by July 15th... beta of what?

And what does that testing involves? If it is really important shouldn’t person applying for the position present some credentials? Or anyone will do?

Also, where exactly 3 slots for testers had come from?

I would also be very interested to hear the answer for a question asked by Warrior:” Update plugins via stream, what is this exactly?” saying “sounds doable” doesn’t count as an answer.

I myself don’t consider participating in this project because:

1. I don’t see any point in it at all. all it does, or to be precise dreams to do is duplicate DVDs already existing here in Simtropolis and on SC4Devotion -sites with experience and strong groups of experienced and proven volunteer experts. People who did more than just talking and projecting. All the claims of this particular compilation being BETTER don’t count – who is the judge in this contest? Basically you simply trying to repackage something that is not yours, that you have no connection to – be it legal, moral or otherwise.

2. Even if first point is answered then I see no way this could actually be technically accomplished. And all I read here just making this conviction stronger.

That said I always keep an open mind. Open, but not absent.

[Ozzel9211 0]

It's really a great idea!

[simmaster07 1,221]

Originally posted by: SimFox

OK you wanna make it a disk. right?

How you, Mr. manager will be financing the production?

How do you plan to recover the cost?

You can’t sell any of the content, not only because you would get all the necessary permission (warrior, for instance already declined his and without it you aren’t sell NAM and without NAM there isn’t any definitive upgrade) But simply because the licence of BAT expressly forbid it!

And NO model could be made without it!

So you can’t sell ANY buildings, props etc.! Manager should know things like that.

quote>

Hadn't I already said that I would make this available for free?

You want to do something for good for community? DO something, create something before you try to manage something others had created.

quote>

Then what about that recommended custom content list? That got lots of support.

You plan now to have a beta by July 15th... beta of what?

quote>

The entire installer. I'd hate to see things go wrong >_>

And what does that testing involves? If it is really important shouldn’t person applying for the position present some credentials? Or anyone will do?

quote>

The three groups (Urban, Asian, Euro) would hunt for those types of plugins and ask the authors for permission to use them. The testing is to make sure none of the plugins conflict and that the installer works properly.

Also, where exactly 3 slots for testers had come from?

quote>

Do we really need more than three people to install something and test it?

I would also be very interested to hear the answer for a question asked by Warrior:” Update plugins via stream, what is this exactly?” saying “sounds doable” doesn’t count as an answer.

quote>

I find it tedious to have to update CC like the NAM or other plugins. I'd like to make this easier for other people, too.

I myself don’t consider participating in this project because:

1. I don’t see any point in it at all. all it does, or to be precise dreams to do is duplicate DVDs already existing here in Simtropolis and on SC4Devotion -sites with experience and strong groups of experienced and proven volunteer experts. People who did more than just talking and projecting. All the claims of this particular compilation being BETTER don’t count – who is the judge in this contest? Basically you simply trying to repackage something that is not yours, that you have no connection to – be it legal, moral or otherwise.

2. Even if first point is answered then I see no way this could actually be technically accomplished. And all I read here just making this conviction stronger.

That said I always keep an open mind. Open, but not absent.quote>

If you don't want to participate in the project, how about you stop posting in this thread? The idea is to have a single installer that installs essential and functional lots, mods and BATs without having to manually select them (e.g. STEX, LEX, their respective disc collections, etc.) -- that way, the members newer to the community don't have to go hunting for the CC they could get compressed into a single installer.

By continuing to post your arguments in the thread, you're only making things worse, since the point of this thread is for suggestions and notifications. Also, nothing is being done because of the back-and-forth arguing.  I thought you should know that at this point.

---

ANYWAYS:

>> Archean has sent a list of most of the plugins he uses. I'll process these, now.

>> As said before, Fukuda has granted permission to use some of his work in this collection.

>> No reply from dedgren yet.

>> Sent PM to mcdrye for permission to use his Underground Car Park.

>> Sent PM to un1 for permission to use his Terrace Bay and Schreiber Ontario map.

>> Sent PM to mrtnrln to use his asphalt highway texture and highway support plugins.

[lildee321 1]

i can help out on testing

[warrior 169]

Ok will it be a DVD?

.     If yes will it cost?

.     .     If yes you already know my opinion

.     .     If no how are you going to buy, package and send them?

If no is it going to be a downloadable installer?

.     Will it contain all the files or be a web installer?

.     .     If yes you then have to get permission from all the site owners it links to

.     .     If no who is going to host such a large file, that will take up a lot of bandwidth?

Please answer/reply to each line above, this will sum up most of the topic.

And please answer this:

Update plugins via stream, what is this exactly? Doesn't this require some action from the creator? quote>

Jonathan

[simmaster07 1,221]

Originally posted by: warrior

Ok will it be a DVD?

quote>

No.

If yes will it cost?

quote>

$0.00

If yes you already know my opinion

quote>

Indeed, I do.

If no how are you going to buy, package and send them?

quote>

You just download the installer.

If no is it going to be a downloadable installer?

quote>

Yes.

Will it contain all the files or be a web installer?

quote>

Both. There will be a web install and a local installer.

If yes you then have to get permission from all the site owners it links to

quote>

True.

If no who is going to host such a large file, that will take up a lot of bandwidth?

quote>

Since anyone can change the source of a SimCity file and an NSIS installer script, SourceForge is an option.

Please answer/reply to each line above, this will sum up most of the topic.

And please answer this:

Update plugins via stream, what is this exactly? Doesn't this require some action from the creator? quote>

Jonathan

quote>

Basically, updating via stream means the installer will launch an updater to download an updated plugin when it detects an update. I suppose I'd need to ask for permission to redistribute the updated version, as well.

Answered all of the questions, just to be more specific.

---

>> mcdrye has given permission to use his BAT.

[warrior 169]

K, thanks for that, and sorry if I was blunt.

This now sounds much better than the original idea : )

Jonathan

[simmaster07 1,221]

Originally posted by: warrior

K, thanks for that, and sorry if I was blunt.

quote>

No problem. It's okay.

This no sounds much better than the original idea : )

Jonathanquote>

Glad we could clear this up.

[mightygoose 92]

Do we really need more than three testers?

Erm, yes, ideally your beta testers should include a wide variety of machine specifications on various versions of windows. that way you can see if your "installer" is too much for older machiens and doesnt conflict with any preinstalled software thast some people might have.

[simmaster07 1,221]

Originally posted by: mightygoose

Do we really need more than three testers?

Erm, yes, ideally your beta testers should include a wide variety of machine specifications on various versions of windows. that way you can see if your "installer" is too much for older machiens and doesnt conflict with any preinstalled software thast some people might have.

quote>

Ah, I see. I'll change that.

[Jasoncw 11,949]

You need to make a more clear and explicit plan and description of what exactly it is that you're doing.  Right now it seems like you're just shoving a bunch of buildings into one download.

If that's really the plan, then there are a few problems with it.

One of them relates to readmes and technical support.  A lot of plugins are pretty straight forward.  But many are not, and require installation instructions.  Whatever installer you'd make would have to have a bunch of sub-installers for all of the different plugins that need more attention (than just dumping them into the folder).  Also, who will offer technical support for things when they go wrong?

Another problem relates to quality.  Obviously for something like this you want to ensure that everything functions properly, and is well modded, etc.  But do you know how to tell if something is well made?

What's wrong with the STEX/LEX?  If someone is too lazy to click "download" and copy and paste a few files when they see something nice, who's problem is that?  This will also make it harder to find volunteers.  Who will want to pour hours of their time into this project, just so that some lazy people can save a few clicks?

Earlier you made a table, and you've said that certain things will be included.  But saying they'll be included doesn't make it so.  Yeah, it's possible to make some kind of an update stream for automatically updating plugins, but who is going to make it?  First, finding people to make all of this stuff will be hard (the people who actually know how to make stuff, tend to make real things, not be "managers"), and then the maintanence of this would take a lot of continous work.  Why not put all of this effort into making actual plugins?

Anyway, it goes without saying that I don't want my stuff, or anything I've worked on, included in this project.

[simmaster07 1,221]

Well, you can't please everyone.

Everyone has different views on this project. Some say it's a great idea. Some say it's pointless. That said, I'm asking that you please try not to post in here unless you'd like to contribute something. If you have a suggestion for making this better, PM me. If you're just going to say it's great or it's pointless, please don't PM and please do not post.

If you are a custom content author who would not want their files redistributed, PM me.

Also, in response to Jasoncw's post:

One of them relates to readmes and technical support.  A lot of plugins are pretty straight forward.  But many are not, and require installation instructions.  Whatever installer you'd make would have to have a bunch of sub-installers for all of the different plugins that need more attention (than just dumping them into the folder). 

quote>

Well, the installer is capable of extracting to multiple folders, deleting and editing files, etc., so sub-installers aren't necessary.

What's wrong with the STEX/LEX?  If someone is too lazy to click "download" and copy and paste a few files when they see something nice, who's problem is that?  This will also make it harder to find volunteers.  Who will want to pour hours of their time into this project, just so that some lazy people can save a few clicks?

quote>

It's not that people are lazy, but that it's more convenient to compress high quality content into a single download, which saves everyone time since the essentials will be compressed into one convenient package.

Thank you.

[tungston 19]

The negative aspects of this project have been thoroughly examined.  Lets continue this topic with support, and positive suggestions.

Thank you.

[Superchan 23]

i know its probably gonna be free now, but i was gonna say this

1. could we contact maxis to get permission to sell custom content?

2. if they give us permission, instead of asking creators just for the right to use there stuff, we ask them if we can use it and in return promise a share in the profit, say a $20 DVD would pay out a bit of money to ST and the rest to content creators that have there content in the disc.

3. if we can do any of that, is there any other way to make people more likely to put there content in this?

4. will it be able to download updates if a newer version has come out. aka the NAM.

[simmaster07 1,221]

Originally posted by: superchad

i know its probably gonna be free now, but i was gonna say this

1. could we contact maxis to get permission to sell custom content?

2. if they give us permission, instead of asking creators just for the right to use there stuff, we ask them if we can use it and in return promise a share in the profit, say a $20 DVD would pay out a bit of money to ST and the rest to content creators that have there content in the disc.

quote>

Most of the custom content creators are showing no support for selling this DVD for profit.

3. if we can do any of that, is there any other way to make people more likely to put there content in this?

quote>

No. Like I said, most CC creators show no support for profit.

4. will it be able to download updates if a newer version has come out. aka the NAM.quote>

Yes.

[warrior 169]

1. could we contact maxis to get permission to sell custom content?quote>

You could try but I doubt you'll get a reply or the one your looking for.

2. if they give us permission, instead of asking creators just for the right to use there stuff, we ask them if we can use it and in return promise a share in the profit, say a $20 DVD would pay out a bit of money to ST and the rest to content creators that have there content in the disc.quote>

Don't like the sound of that, and we can't make any profit from custom content. (STEX disc, is not for profit, and you not paying for the DVD your getting it free when you donate)

3. if we can do any of that, is there any other way to make people more likely to put there content in this?quote>

The decision to have it included in the download/DVD is up to the creator, paying them will likely put them off.

4. will it be able to download updates if a newer version has come out. aka the NAM..quote>

  Mods like the NAM and CAM you will know about an update in at the most a few days

I can understand why many people will want this, I only started using the CAM for example this year because of all the dependencies, and lack of a single list with every single dependency I need to install the CAM, and all it's CAMeLots.

Jonathan

[Superchan 23]

for question 3 i meant to say .

if we CAN'T do any of that, is there any other way to make people more likely to put there content in this?

why would they not want to get payed for having there content in the disc, thats easy money. and what isnt payed to content creators would go to making the discs and st.

[simmaster07 1,221]

We can't pay every single person who contributes. In the end, that's very little money.

Besides, if Maxis doesn't respond, there's no way to legally sell this.

[Superchan 23]

yes we can pay every person, its not very easy and yes it is little money,  but money adds up, we could have people contribute, and being payed is an option. say for example you get paid $0.01 per disk and we sell 1000 disks, thats $100, and its very easy.

we should contact maxis, they might not reply, but its worth trying.

[JakeMD 107]

Why not just offer a download? It would be cheaper, well, aside from the hosting (If a paid host is purchased) it would be free.

[Superchan 23]

yes it would be, but making a disc that pays the contributors would have a higher chance of getting more content, idk why people wont put content on a FREE download.

[simmaster07 1,221]

I believe CC creators would rather have their works available for free since they believe people shouldn't have to pay to download their high-quality plugins.

Besides, it makes things easier for us broke people.

[tristan4eva 1]

if this project is allowed to continue i would love to be a beta tester for you

Tristan

tristan_4_eva@hotmail.co.uk

[earwax_man 18]

Could we include CAM and/or more transportation options as optional? Japanese MODs would also be a brilliant addition if we could have the owners' permission 

[simmaster07 1,221]

@earwax_man: We could, but it would involve discussion among their teams.

-----------------------

>> un1 has granted permission to use his maps in this expansion.

>> dedgren has granted permission to use his ploppable waterfalls.

[earwax_man 18]

Okey dokey. I can't wait to see this

[dedgren 830]

I'll just note that anything I've ever made available for DL, unless I specifically have specified otherwise (and I don't think that I have), may be freely redistributed, whether in the original form or with further modifications, so long as proper credit is given to any person my work was derived from (I always note that with the file) and to me. I guess I'll add, in light of the discussion here, that I'd recommend for any number of good reasons that an effort like this not be intended to generate a profit.

Good luck!

David

[simmaster07 1,221]

Thank you, dedgren.

Also, I'd like to ask members of the community to suggest dependencyless plugins in order to process them for redistribution permission. If you'd like to suggest a plugin without dependencies, just post a link and the name here.