Single Player

[gabry85 2]

Originally posted by: mpol

PS. gabry85, or g314, this is Michael from the MC forums. quote>

Yes, I know. But you're not to be confused with Michael (MC), the Community Manager.

[Asheroo 53]

Wow, that just all in all doesn't make sense then. If they can do region-like play online, how come they can't do it in single player? Hopefully after release we might see something better. But wouldn't it be funny if the 10km by 10km maps in the end turn out to be way larger than what we all thought? But then again, we're not after bigger maps, but regions, but bigger maps could help though.

I wish we could get some kind of definite answer with regions on solo mode. They seem to be hiding any answer from us, not even a 'we're working on it' and even not a 'yes' or 'no'. Makes me suspicious.:S

[+Guest]

I know! HAHA I'm not THAT Michael. I'm just the normal one. The -56 Karma one. HEH!

Ash, MC and those who have played the game have already said that we are to get a 10x10 map. They have said it clear as day. I love that your optimisitc but man they have held nothing back. 10x10 is all us solo players will be getting.

[LivingInThePast 364]

Originally posted by: gabry85

Originally posted by: LivingInThePast

It still seems to me that rather than "it's single player, but there's an online version too" it's "primarily multiplayer but there's still a single player version". If the former was true, why is so much being stressed on the Planet Offer and the GEMs only being available to them?quote>

* BREAKING NEWS: Michael (MC's Community Manager) said in this forum that a sort of "Region Play" works only in the PO. If this is their answer after 11 (ELEVEN!) months of discussions of regions in single player... well, that alone is sufficient to tell me this game is really a MASSIVELY Multiplayer Online (MMO) game and NOT "A single-player game with an OPTIONAL multiplayer mode." You do the math.

quote>

Exactly my point. Assuming you are g314 of the Cities XL forum, you have brought the light that we do need single-player region play. Despite having to expand a city over multiple tiles when you want to to be one municipality is pesky, but you could make a region with varying things. A massive metroplex? Check. A small, conservative college town? Check. A tourist-oriented beach town with a bit of a crime problem? Check. A few-and-far between community in West Virginia? Check. A pricey capital city? Check. You can't do that in Cities XL!

As much as PO offers, what with all other players, online games seem to have aggressive jerks that don't really play by the rules, so to speak, and are rarely banned by admins.

And I want to terraform as much as anyone else does.

[gabry85 2]

Thank you. But there's one more thing I don't understand about MC's decision on Region Play in Single Player mode: if MC are making so many GEMs to expand the gameplay and enhance replayability, regions could be a perfect way to push people to play them. For example: I want to build a ski and a beach resorts (the ones they confirmed at release): so I create a huge region (my personal goal is a 100x100km large region, 10 times bigger than one CXL map) where I can terraform a large mountain on which I build a quaint ski resort. Likewise, I terraform a long coastline where I can build a nice beach resort.

A modern-time city in RL is a huge beast, and if they tell me this is a modern and realistic city building game and I can also enjoy it even more with these GEMs, I have even more reasons to ask for regions. It's so logical. Unless you want to make lots of independent cities... whoops, towns, you don't have enough space to include all of this stuff (GEMs, airports, seaports, stadiums, universities) in one map, no matter how big you make it. This alone highlights tons of restrictions.

In short, Region Play was a great opportunity for them to advertise the GEMs, and additionally, the Planet Offer could be an interesting extra value for the game to those interested in playing online. Fair enough. No problemo. Instead, they decided that the PO must be the #1 game's feature, no matter if they have to take out some features along the way, but people WILL like it, because this is the best of Cities XL. No surprise people said no-no to this decision in the citiesxl.com official website. But they aren't against the PO per se whatsoever.

It's a shame for us they alienated the single-player and the whole SC4 fanbase like that, but it's also a shame for them too if they think well about it. Both Starpeace (a MMO-only game) and City Life suffered poor sales and putting the two games together during this financial meltdown isn't such a good idea, IMO...

[LivingInThePast 364]

I wasn't bashing the PO either. I think its a neat feature that could do well, but like others, I reject the idea of it being the main focus. And 10x10 is a jarring change from the "RAM's the limit" attitude of SC4. Also, despite roads having more direction, all the roads have a sharp, angular look to them...no effort to smooth them out at all. I was disgusted with The Sims 2's crass commercialism with all the expansion packs and "Stuff Packs"...but at least there are communities that make items.

[gabry85 2]

There's a reason why they can't make smoother roads: when making games you got to deal with a poly budget in order to make them run in most computers. Same applies for other 3D games like NFS and GTA (they too have some odd-looking road curves). I can live with that in Cities XL, but you should be able to make smoother curves if you wish. Watch these two videos here.

[longhorn 25]

I'd be happy with a 3D SC4 with no change in game play.

[chris0101 8]

I think that for now, maybe we should withhold judgement until the game is out. Maybe they have some sort of alternative innovative feature to regions that they don't want to reveal to us or something.

I just hope that we don't get something like the "Stuff Packs" and 10 or so expansions like the Sims 2. (Which I suspect the Sims 3 may become, which is why I am not buying it for at least a year or two). Perhaps it may be justifiable if there was as much content in each expansion as say, Rush Hour, but otherwise, the company will alienate us, their fan base. Perhaps the company can learn from the mistakes of others.

[LivingInThePast 364]

Originally posted by: gabry85

There's a reason why they can't make smoother roads: when making games you got to deal with a poly budget in order to make them run in most computers. Same applies for other 3D games like NFS and GTA (they too have some odd-looking road curves). I can live with that in Cities XL, but you should be able to make smoother curves if you wish. Watch these two videos here.

quote>

Sadly, that was released in January 2008, long before the "focus on PO". I wonder if this feature has been removed since focusing on the PO. All the screenshots I've seen since are relatively...flat. I think people should pay for the game and maybe an expansion pack. But to get a beach of some sort, let's see, that was about $45 flat for SimCity 4 (it was included). But Cities XL? Hmmm...that's $45 flat, and seven euros for one month of PO, which is, yikes, $10 USD! Add about $3 for the Beach GEM. That's nearly 60 dollars!

[LivingInThePast 364]

Originally posted by: chris0101

Maybe they have some sort of alternative innovative feature to regions that they don't want to reveal to us or something.

quote>

Right. And EA is planning a real SimCity 5, to be released Fall 2009!

[dedgren 830]

Heh, with apologies to Dan and Gilda...

Gregory: New Shimmer is a floor wax!

Philippe: No, new Shimmer is a dessert topping!

Gregory: It's a floor wax!

Philippe: It's a dessert topping!

Gregory: It's a floor wax, I'm telling you!

Philippe: It's a dessert topping, you cow!

Announcer: [ enters quickly ] Hey, hey, hey, calm down, you two. New Shimmer is both a floor wax and a dessert topping! Here, I'll spray some on your mop.. [ sprays Shimmer onto mop ] ..and some on your butterscotch pudding. [ sprays Shimmer onto pudding ]

[ Philippe eats while Gregory mops ]

Philippe: Mmmmm, tastes terrific!

Gregory: And just look at that shine! But will it last?

Announcer: Hey, outlasts every other leading floor wax, 2 to 1. It's durable, and it's scuff-resistant.

Philippe: And it's delicious!

quote>

Glad they cleared that up.

David

[froelich131 13]

Don't know if any of this has been said yet (Probably has) But here goes:

Rant 1:

Ok well first while reading comments on this section of the forums i have been seeing a lot of "the doom of CXL will be" or "CXL will see a arch in the sales in 1 year of sales" Well for the first comment here is my response: 

The ultimate doom to Cities XL will be the inability to adapt to changing game desires. CXL can only supply so much of one kind of city building style, it won't be able to adapt and further it's success like SC4 cause it won't have mods, it won't have full solo play, it won't have so much as SC4. But is it SC4? No! this is an expirement to further SC, by bringing it to online play. Allowing so much more to be done, but like i said it only feeds the demand of few city building styles. And my prediction is that most cities will end up the same: People will get a city going at first but then once needing to open up to the community to further their city they will get used and trampled on by people that don't have the intent of playing the game for fun but to simply ruin the game for everyone else. 

Part 2: "CXL will see an arch in sales after on year of sales" 

Well the intent to have it online is so that it can constantly be making sufficient money, and with no mods people think the game is worthless, but it is the MMO part that everyone is forgetting, the more people that are playing online the more option to further your city once you are able to, cause i can easily predict people starting a city then right away open it to the community with all their starting supplys. So in other notice the SC4 famous "Mods" are replaced with MMO and to beable to interact with other players, and see their cities to their full extent. To make true neighbor connections, to make friend or Befriend.

Thanks You

[Screwballl 196]

Based on what I have seen so far with the online beta (which I have not done any trading with other cities), there is a strong potential for this game to be very good as a single player game, provided they allow for some sort of region play, SP (single player) planets or other SP interactive modes between cities (none of which has been mentioned unofficially or officially by MC). Otherwise I do see an online riot about this game from people who are used to the bar set by SC4 including regions, custom map creation and importing, mods and so on. If it does not at least have a custom or random map generator and be stuck with a static number of maps in SP mode, then yes this game will sell well among genre fans and become another footnote in the city sim genre, much as SC3000 and SC4 has become.

It is only a community like ST here that allows SC4 to continue to thrive and keep at least some interest, which may or may not happen with CXL.

I am of the opinion that the SP portion of this game will fail without at least some options (SP planet, mods, regions, at minimum custom map creation and importing).

[zwr100 2]

SC4 has remained popular for so long because it is so rediculously flexible.  If you don't like the game you can just change it.  SC4 without custom content is a decent game (really not that great) but certainly wouldn't have the following and longevity it has.  The custom content is the best and worst thing about SC4.  It has allowed improvement of the game created a community and thus longevity, however I feel that the integrity of the game is totally ruined - SC4 is hardly playable without cheats/exploits/custom content.  How can you even compare cities of players who use cheats and/or costom content to those who don't?  That aspect hurts the community IMO - it makes it exclusive to players that can make the game into something else rather thatn play it as it is.  Do you really love sc4 if you have to change it?

From what I understand of Cities XL there will not be custom content.  IMO Cities XL will be a better game since it doesn't depend on people making it better (even if it takes some updates to make it good).  If that's true, the single player offline mode has no chance of surviving long without a good online mode.  Most MMOs have no single player mode at all - which many players complain about.  I think the developers were wise to allow single player mode to make sure they bring in players that don't want to be a part of a mmo, and also for those player who do like the MMO aspect, but might be without internet for a few days.  I don't expect much from single player mode, though I'm happy it exists.  I get the feeling Cities XL is not supposed to be sc4.2 or sc5.  I look forward to a game to play.  I do not consider plug-ins fun.


If you want a single player offline mode with custom content maybe you should just stay with sc4?

Originally posted by: gabry85
But there's one more thing I don't understand about MC's decision on Region Play in Single Player mode: if MC are making so many GEMs to expand the gameplay and enhance replayability, regions could be a perfect way to push people to play them. For example: I want to build a ski and a beach resorts (the ones they confirmed at release): so I create a huge region (my personal goal is a 100x100km large region, 10 times bigger than one CXL map) where I can terraform a large mountain on which I build a quaint ski resort. Likewise, I terraform a long coastline where I can build a nice beach resort.

A modern-time city in RL is a huge beast, and if they tell me this is a modern and realistic city building game and I can also enjoy it even more with these GEMs, I have even more reasons to ask for regions. It's so logical. Unless you want to make lots of independent cities... whoops, towns, you don't have enough space to include all of this stuff (GEMs, airports, seaports, stadiums, universities) in one map, no matter how big you make it. This alone highlights tons of restrictions.quote>

I get the feeling that the city size is GIGANTIC.  Are you sure you won't be able to fit it all in one? *edit* After reading more carefully, I see that a city is roughly the equivalent of 6 big tiles in sc4.  IMO that's plenty of room to fit everything mentioned.  I usually build 5 medium tiles extensively and the surrounding tiles become more about blending in to the terrain.  Anything I build beyond 4 big tiles wouldn't upset me to lose.  But that's just my building style and my opinion. *end edit*

[bluemoose 223]

I predict crash and burn...

[Chptrk 86]

So how would "trading" and stuff even work in the online version? Would you have to place road connecting cities? If so, isn't there then a chance that when someone does that, the could destroy a part of someone elses city?

And what about the user interface, are any pictures of that going to be shown soon? I don't want to play a game that I can't even figure out how to play. And, there is no chance of me buying the game to test it out, I would want a free demo first. Last I checked, you can't rent a PC game and after you buy it you can't return it if you don't like it. And personally, I would never pay for a demo, aren't supposed to be free?

And then hits the "Pay to play" part. Not all features available in single player? Count me out. I paid for the game once, I'm not doing it again. (My little moto) Sorry, but this game is just not for me.

Well, I felt like I needed to express my opinion. I really don't mean for this to sound rude, but I'll just sit here at wait for this to blow over. And for those who say "Cities XL is gonna be the next big thing," well, isn't that exactly what they said for Spore? And there isn't much replay value in that. Sorry MC, but I'm sticking with my SimCity 4!

[Da_Brain 0]

Originally posted by: chptrk

So how would "trading" and stuff even work in the online version? Would you have to place road connecting cities? If so, isn't there then a chance that when someone does that, the could destroy a part of someone elses city?

And what about the user interface, are any pictures of that going to be shown soon? I don't want to play a game that I can't even figure out how to play. And, there is no chance of me buying the game to test it out, I would want a free demo first. Last I checked, you can't rent a PC game and after you buy it you can't return it if you don't like it. And personally, I would never pay for a demo, aren't supposed to be free?

And then hits the "Pay to play" part. Not all features available in single player? Count me out. I paid for the game once, I'm not doing it again. (My little moto) Sorry, but this game is just not for me.

Well, I felt like I needed to express my opinion. I really don't mean for this to sound rude, but I'll just sit here at wait for this to blow over. And for those who say "Cities XL is gonna be the next big thing," well, isn't that exactly what they said for Spore? And there isn't much replay value in that. Sorry MC, but I'm sticking with my SimCity 4!

quote>

Excellent Choice! Someday I may explain my comment--)))

[gabry85 2]

Originally posted by: zwr100

From what I understand of Cities XL there will not be custom content. IMO Cities XL will be a better game since it doesn't depend on people making it better (even if it takes some updates to make it good). If that's true, the single player offline mode has no chance of surviving long without a good online mode.quote>

Good. I see they've done a great work. With you I mean...

I get the feeling that the city size is GIGANTIC.  Are you sure you won't be able to fit it all in one?quote>

I know you just 'got the feeling' about everything they wanted to show you in the game. I too had that feeling at first when I joined their site, but not anymore. I turned very skeptical when I joined the beta after all I read and learned in two years. I was half shocked because 90% of what I feared was right there (even though I expected it all), while a lot of enthusiastic people who just 'got the feeling' are busier posting complaint and concern post all over the beta forum than reporting errors. So, been there, done that. No big deal.

I know that the size isn't GIGANTIC at all. Please, get a demo as soon as they release one.

SC4 has remained popular for so long because it is so rediculously flexible. If you don't like the game you can just change it.  SC4 without custom content is a decent game (really not that great) but certainly wouldn't have the following and longevity it has. The custom content is the best and worst thing about SC4. It has allowed improvement of the game created a community and thus longevity, however I feel that the integrity of the game is totally ruined - SC4 is hardly playable without cheats/exploits/custom content.

snip

If you want a single player offline mode with custom content maybe you should just stay with sc4?quote>

Yep, a fine idea indeed! Just let me some RL detox programs after wasting two years doing nothing, will ya.

 

[ch0c0 13]

Originally posted by: zwr100If you want a single player offline mode with custom content maybe you should just stay with sc4?quote>

many of us have already reached that conclusion.  now that the sc4 grid is busted, the onyl advantage CXL has is true 3D....which doesn't amount to much given all the other limitations you'll be dealing with. 

what bother me most....in the event the servers go down, or you dont have an internet connection....the game's fairly useless.  i fly alot....so i already know there's nothing that interests me here.  

just saw the date got pushed back......hmmmm..... 

 

[zwr100 2]

Originally posted by: ch0c0

Originally posted by: zwr100If you want a single player offline mode with custom content maybe you should just stay with sc4?quote>

many of us have already reached that conclusion.  now that the sc4 grid is busted, the onyl advantage CXL has is true 3D....which doesn't amount to much given all the other limitations you'll be dealing with. 

what bother me most....in the event the servers go down, or you dont have an internet connection....the game's fairly useless.  i fly alot....so i already know there's nothing that interests me here.  

just saw the date got pushed back......hmmmm..... 

 quote>

I actually enjoy the limitations of games and pushing them without breaking them.  The beauty of online games is that the limitations can change.  I really enjoy the idea of everyone being 'stuck' with the same limitations.

If the offline mode is even moedartely well implemented I think there will still be great value - especially for game experiments.  From what I've seen we still have A LOT to learn about how the game works.  How big of an area will a hospitol/school/park cover? How many citizens?  What effect will it have?  I look forward to findong those answers in experimental cities offline.

I've been excited for games before that have been total flops, but more often I find myself with low expectations yet still enjoying a game for hundreds of hours.  I think it's unrealistic to expect this game to be 'better than sc4 in every way' but that doesn't make it a bad game or a flop.  The fact that there are so few city builders really puts the microscope on this one.  I expect a lot of people to give it a chance, and many to learn to love it.  I think it's really critical that online portion works well for the free trial period.  I'll find myself either wanting more or waiting for a broken game to be fixed - then again I'm still waiting for sc4 to be fixed

[gabry85 2]

Surprise, surprise...

BRING CITIES XL TO A NEW DIMENSION WITH THE PLANET OFFER!

A constantly evolving simulation:

new resources, new features like public transportation, or servers with specific rulesets.

quote>

Source: http://www.citiesxl.com/component/option,com_community/Itemid,136/task,planet_offer/?lang=en

[JakeMD 107]

I'm not excited for paying for online, but i suppose that is appropriate to keep a game of this magnitude up and running.

[KeanoManu 42]

Originally posted by: gabry85

Surprise, surprise...

BRING CITIES XL TO A NEW DIMENSION WITH THE PLANET OFFER!

A constantly evolving simulation:

new resources, new features like public transportation, or servers with specific rulesets.quote>

Source: http://www.citiesxl.com/component/option,com_community/Itemid,136/task,planet_offer/?lang=en

quote>

Free content each month:

New buildings on different themes, maps based on real world locations, new types of roads...

I guess the.. eh, thing that was supposed to give us the ability to create our roads just like we want it, are gone forever from the Single-player. Don't even remember the name of it, so long time ago i totally gave up on the game and almost stopped visiting their site. Looks like everything new will be PO-only.

I wouldn't say "surprise, surprise" though. The greediness of this company has stopped to surprise me. There's no surprise that they are giving everything they before promised for both modes only to the crappy and totally unnecessary Planet Offer. And it will be no surprise when the game fails miserably and Philippe and the guys are out looking for new jobs when MC goes bust. And they will not be able to blame anyone else than their own greediness.

[packersfan 666]

This game certainly has big shoes to fill competing with a custom content version of SC4. One shortcoming I really notice though is the 10x10km city tile...For SC4 players a 10km x 10km city is HUGE!!! are big tile is only 4x4km, BUT most of us (city journalers) string a lot of these 4x4 or 2x2 or 1x1 tiles together to make a cohesive metropolis or entire region. 10x10 will be large enough to make a large city but not a real realistic metro area or to have the surrounding sprawl and farms. This game has vast potential if Monte Cristo chooses to open it up and improve on it and allow users mod it (the only smart thing EA and Maxis did in relation to SC4, since SC4 is STILL going strong). Monte Cristo has definitely laid down a good base for a long lived game if serious modifications will be allowed and the building area can be expanded. I am REALLY torn on whether to get CXL or not and leave SC4...either I'll love CXL and sadly discard SC4 or be disappointed by CXL but enamored with the graphics and awesome transportation things and never be able to really go back to SC4 in which case I'll be ruined (at least in the city building genre, haha)....

And I haven't been following the Planet Offer vs. Single Player thing enough. If Single Player does not have a lot of the content (necessary and basic) to surpass SC4 and that stuff is only available through PO and online play, then I think the game will crash and burn at least among single player SC4 people.

[kevinj319 0]

You won't have a full game unless you pay for the PO. No trains or other additional transit.

[zombones 0]

you mean i get to pay $10 a month for features included in a game i already own AND i don't even need to add sweet custom mods? where do i sign up?!

[Attila464 2]

Too many catches, too many but you have this and most of that etc, etc. Mass Transit is not included region play is not included. Good custom content will only be available to online players the list goes on of these small things really do add up.

And you really don't need a subscription cost to keep a game running i can provide a whole list of very successful games that turned a profit with 0 as the online fee, and that's the way it should be.

As another example its like going to a brand new movie theater buying your ticket to see the nice new screen and movie and then saying you can't watch the best parts of the movie without buying popcorn first. I don't care about trading online, i don't care about sharing and trading GEMS, i don't care stats, i don't care about it being the first massively multiplayer city-builder, if thats true then it will be the first massively-multiplayer city-builder to fail.

I just want to get the full and uncensored game. With no strings attached, no catches no NOTHING. And until that happens i will not buy the game.

And Zombones i'm debating whether to sig that or not i teared up from laughing there

[gabry85 2]

*Ahem*

The Planet Offer is what will allow us to support further developments to the game and keep it evolving, and as such the new features will be made available to PO subscribers.

This means that these new features, including additional transport systems, will not be made available in solo mode. quote>

This was posted by Mathew on the Beta forum just an hour ago.

Please, PLEASE, hold your rage for a second.

[Legosim 14]

so there will be tons of add-ons then