Lets Abandon Spelling!

[Explodingsims 3]

Found this while over at The Escapist Forums, and thought it would be a good thing to discuss here:

Here's The Article *Works Now*

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Frankly, it feels like Mr. Wells there was beaten with a baseball made made of frozen stupid.

Misspelling and the like may be common on the internet, and English may be hard to learn, but it does not need to be dumbed down. The methods of teaching it need to be reworked.

[hamsterTK 93]

The link is no good...could you try to post it again?

anyways, weird

[coolotter88 2]

the guy wants to simplify spelling rules so foreigners don't spell potato "ghoughpteighbteau"

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: coolotter88

the guy wants to simplify spelling rules so foreigners don't spell potato "ghoughpteighbteau"quote>

And so first graders don't spell fish "ghoti"

[ILL Tonkso 1,236]

Originally posted by: SkiGeek

Originally posted by: coolotter88

the guy wants to simplify spelling rules so foreigners don't spell potato "ghoughpteighbteau"quote>

And so first graders don't spell fish "ghoti"quote>

Interesting if not odd article.

Unrelated to ghoti, Netspeak is one my pet hates. If ur gna txt me, do it so i cn rd it str8 wivout hvn 2 fnk bout it.

[fukuda 351]

Ok.. Let's degenerate our languages even more! We've reached such a level of decadence that our children is not even able to grasp spelling? Or it's just that we reject literacy?

People fought to give literacy to all social classes, alphabetism, knowledge and education (yes, because spelling is and will always be a sign of education).

But it seems that the plans of pedagogy and linguistics doctors all over Europe are to dumb down anything related to literacy, in france and spain no effort is put on literacy, they even try to avoid children from the "boring and annoying task of reading books" so the reading level of middle and low classes is just non-existent, not to tell that spelling is a total disaster in those countries....

[hamsterTK 93]

Haha I thought this was going to be about something entirely different.

Anyways, I'm so used to the "proper" way of spelling it would be freaky if they changed it. But whatever. From a purely practical standpoint there really wouldn't be anything technically wrong with this. I mean simple is better right?

[RJ11 0]

You should hear what ghetto people are using for spelling now a days, you should hear the one for hotel, dictate and disappointment, however, disappointment is the only appropriate one allowed on the forum.

Disappointment - My parole officer tol ' me if I miss disappointment they gonna send me back to the joint.

[Duke87 1,070]

Uh huh. Right. Let's dumb things down so that idiots don't need to ever try to be anything but idiots.

I spels grate, doodz, DURR HURRRR.

English not being phonetic is something that makes it decidedly harder to learn as a second language. The large number of synonyms and fancy words almost no one ever uses which make the dictionary so much thicker doesn't help, either. It's complicated, too. English has 15 distinct vowel sounds. By comparison, Italian has only five (one for each vowel).

Still, that doesn't mean we need to turn it upside down to fix these "problems". If you want a phonetic language, learn something else. English isn't phonetic. Deal with it.

---

Little experiment. What would that look like phonetically?

Uh Huh. Rait. Lets dum things down sow thet ideeuts dohnt need too ehvur trai too bee ehneething but ideeuts.

Inglihsh naht beeihng fonetik ihs sumthing thet mayks iht dihsaidedlee hardur too lurn ahs uh sehkund langwij. Thuh larj numbur uv sinohnims end fansee wurds ulmost noh won ehvur yusehs wihch mayk thuh dikchunerry sow muhch thikur dozent help, eethur. Ihts komplikated, too. Inglish hahs 15 distinkt vahwul sownds. Bai kumpahrisun, Ihtalyun hahs ownlee faiv (won for eech vahwul).

Still, thaht dozent meen wee need too turn iht upsai down too fihks thees "prahblums". Ihf yoo wahnt uh fonetik langwij, lurn sumthing els. Inglihsh izunt fonetik. Deel wihth iht. quote>

Ouch.

Looks awful, doesn't it? Good thing it's not correct. If this nutjob had his way, it would be!

[Jazzmaster 716]

Originally posted by: Duke87 Uh huh. Right. Let's dumb things down so that idiots don't need to ever try to be anything but idiots.

I spels grate, doodz, DURR HURRRR.

English not being phonetic is something that makes it decidedly harder to learn as a second language. The large number of synonyms and fancy words almost no one ever uses which make the dictionary so much thicker doesn't help, either. It's complicated, too. English has 15 distinct vowel sounds. By comparison, Italian has only five (one for each vowel).

Still, that doesn't mean we need to turn it upside down to fix these "problems". If you want a phonetic language, learn something else. English isn't phonetic. Deal with it.

---

Little experiment. What would that look like phonetically?

Uh Huh. Rait. Lets dum things down sow thet ideeuts dohnt need too ehvur trai too bee ehneething but ideeuts.

Inglihsh naht beeihng fonetik ihs sumthing thet mayks iht dihsaidedlee hardur too lurn ahs uh sehkund langwij. Thuh larj numbur uv sinohnims end fansee wurds ulmost noh won ehvur yusehs wihch mayk thuh dikchunerry sow muhch thikur dozent help, eethur. Ihts komplikated, too. Inglish hahs 15 distinkt vahwul sownds. Bai kumpahrisun, Ihtalyun hahs ownlee faiv (won for eech vahwul).

Still, thaht dozent meen wee need too turn iht upsai down too fihks thees "prahblums". Ihf yoo wahnt uh fonetik langwij, lurn sumthing els. Inglihsh izunt fonetik. Deel wihth iht. quote>

Ouch.

Looks awful, doesn't it? Good thing it's not correct. If this nutjob had his way, it would be!quote>

Ouch is right...for crap's sake I alwayz thot net-speak wuz hard......lolz

IDK why this is such a big problem, most kids in my class make very few mistakes and a very small fraction of those very few mistakes will be in spelling...come to think of it this sounds a ton like EA.  "It's too hard, so let's water it down so the less profecient ones can do it too".

[hamsterTK 93]

I think part of the reason why that example is difficult to read is because since we have been reading the same words since the age of 6 we've learned to just recognize the word itself which allows us to read quickly.

It's like typing, I can type quickly but I if you forced me to say out loud the order of the keys I probably couldn't do it. It's this weird second nature thing that I can just sort of do.

[Maxis92 11]

Originally posted by: fukuda Ok.. Let's degenerate our languages even more! We've reached such a level of decadence that our children is not even able to grasp spelling? Or it's just that we reject literacy?

People fought to give literacy to all social classes, alphabetism, knowledge and education (yes, because spelling is and will always be a sign of education).

But it seems that the plans of pedagogy and linguistics doctors all over Europe are to dumb down anything related to literacy, in france and spain no effort is put on literacy, they even try to avoid children from the "boring and annoying task of reading books" so the reading level of middle and low classes is just non-existent, not to tell that spelling is a total disaster in those countries....quote>

 

Sorry, but I must  pick at your "rant".

*We've reached such a level of decadence that our children is not even able to grasp spelling?

"is" should be "are".

*Or it's just that we reject literacy?

"it's" should be "is it".

*People fought to give literacy to all social classes, alphabetism, knowledge and education

"give" should be "teach".

*But it seems that the plans of pedagogy and linguistics doctors all over Europe are to dumb down anything related to literacy, in france and spain no effort is put on literacy, they even try to avoid children from the "boring and annoying task of reading books" so the reading level of middle and low classes is just non-existent, not to tell that spelling is a total disaster in those countries....

The entire thing is a big no-no. I have a headache from trying to proofread it.

[Maxis92 11]

You know, after reading all of the replies, I wonder if the pot is calling the kettle black...  

[Godzillaman 21]

Originally posted by: Maxis92

Originally posted by: fukuda Ok.. Let's degenerate our languages even more! We've reached such a level of decadence that our children is not even able to grasp spelling? Or it's just that we reject literacy?

People fought to give literacy to all social classes, alphabetism, knowledge and education (yes, because spelling is and will always be a sign of education).

But it seems that the plans of pedagogy and linguistics doctors all over Europe are to dumb down anything related to literacy, in france and spain no effort is put on literacy, they even try to avoid children from the "boring and annoying task of reading books" so the reading level of middle and low classes is just non-existent, not to tell that spelling is a total disaster in those countries....quote>

 

Sorry, but I must  pick at your "rant".

*We've reached such a level of decadence that our children is not even able to grasp spelling?

"is" should be "are".

*Or it's just that we reject literacy?

"it's" should be "is it".

*People fought to give literacy to all social classes, alphabetism, knowledge and education

"give" should be "teach".

*But it seems that the plans of pedagogy and linguistics doctors all over Europe are to dumb down anything related to literacy, in france and spain no effort is put on literacy, they even try to avoid children from the "boring and annoying task of reading books" so the reading level of middle and low classes is just non-existent, not to tell that spelling is a total disaster in those countries....

The entire thing is a big no-no. I have a headache from trying to proofread it.

quote>

I think he meant it to be like that... ...or Fukuda made a boo-boo...

[Explodingsims 3]

Well, to put a few more cents in the hat, I really don't see the problem with English as it is.

When I was in First and Second grade, didn't devote too much time to it. We had a special phonics class, and a separate English Class,

and it worked out fine. A pre-test every Wednesday and a test on Friday and we were set.

I mean, sure, I can't spell every word under the sun, but still, that's what spellcheck is for!

Also, If we did do something like this, we'd have to re-educate everyone into the New English* spelling and such, because as HamsterTK said, everyone is used to the proper form of English because we've heard it all our lives.

*I promised not to make a Newspeak joke here.

[SC4BOY 20]

No language is stable (in spite of what your English teacher may tell you ) .. all languages are now AND ALWAYS HAVE THROUGHOUT THE AGES evolved constantly. both spelling and meanings.. as well as new words coming about and old ones dropping into disuse.. as they say, the only thing you can depend on is change.. learn to live with it

[Rymac91 15]

Unfortunately, English is one of the vary few languages that has no official organization to maintain the structure and to control the words that are introduced into the language.

We are led to think that the Dictionaries are what mean a word exists or not in English, but anyone can start a dictionary, it then becomes what you consider to be a official dictionary and what is purely for entertainment purposes.

The other issue is accents change the way the same word may be said, and the spelling may change even though the sound is exactly the same(yet the letters added aren't silent).

I think one thing that would possibly improve the language would be to eliminate the duplicate letter sounds, or certain letters altogether.

[Gridlock 9]

The official english dictionaries imo would be  The Oxford , and Cambridge dictionaries .

If you cant find it in either of those two , then its not a real word  .

Formal written english for say a job application should be written well , but to critisise individuals over their grammar skills on a gaming forum , imho is pathetic and exposes weaknesses within their own personality .

Yes poor written english , you will never be Queens Council , however be careful who you call dumb , as it may turn out they are financialy worth 10 x more than you could ever imagine .

[Joesocwork 4]

I think the article reflects, intentionally or not, a side of an older educational argument about whether children, especially K-6, learn better through phonics or memorization. Part of the larger argument is that relying solely on memorization leads to learning disabilities. He obviously, to me, falls on the phonics side of the argument. I've never seen it as all or nothing. Children memorize extremely well ages 5-10 and learning to learn through understanding the meaning from phonics is also a great tool. But I don't see either as the end all and be all. I see both as tools in the belt to teaching language and educators have a responsibility to understand how their pupil with learning disabilities learn how to learn in order to teach them.

In terms of usage in the professional usage, there will always be strong standards that require a knowledge of developed language rules. And society has right to expect and demand adherence to the standards in professional documentation and speech. Casual language, for good or for bad, has and will always continue to change; its the older users, as much as younger, that are the ones that seem to have to learn to adapt.

[ILL Tonkso 1,236]

Originally posted by: Rymac91 Unfortunately, English is one of the vary few languages that has no official organization to maintain the structure and to control the words that are introduced into the language.

We are led to think that the Dictionaries are what mean a word exists or not in English, but anyone can start a dictionary, it then becomes what you consider to be a official dictionary and what is purely for entertainment purposes.

The other issue is accents change the way the same word may be said, and the spelling may change even though the sound is exactly the same(yet the letters added aren't silent).

I think one thing that would possibly improve the language would be to eliminate the duplicate letter sounds, or certain letters altogether.quote>

There is for English, Oxford. Unfortunately this does not apply to North Americans where US English is used.

[fukuda 351]

Originally posted by: Godzillaman

Originally posted by: Maxis92

Originally posted by: fukuda Ok.. Let's degenerate our languages even more! We've reached such a level of decadence that our children is not even able to grasp spelling? Or it's just that we reject literacy?

People fought to give literacy to all social classes, alphabetism, knowledge and education (yes, because spelling is and will always be a sign of education).

But it seems that the plans of pedagogy and linguistics doctors all over Europe are to dumb down anything related to literacy, in france and spain no effort is put on literacy, they even try to avoid children from the "boring and annoying task of reading books" so the reading level of middle and low classes is just non-existent, not to tell that spelling is a total disaster in those countries....quote>

 

Sorry, but I must  pick at your "rant".

*We've reached such a level of decadence that our children is not even able to grasp spelling?

"is" should be "are".

*Or it's just that we reject literacy?

"it's" should be "is it".

*People fought to give literacy to all social classes, alphabetism, knowledge and education

"give" should be "teach".

*But it seems that the plans of pedagogy and linguistics doctors all over Europe are to dumb down anything related to literacy, in france and spain no effort is put on literacy, they even try to avoid children from the "boring and annoying task of reading books" so the reading level of middle and low classes is just non-existent, not to tell that spelling is a total disaster in those countries....

The entire thing is a big no-no. I have a headache from trying to proofread it.

quote>

I think he meant it to be like that... ...or Fukuda made a boo-boo...quote>

or fukuda is just a non-native english "speaker"

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: fukuda

Originally posted by: Godzillaman

I think he meant it to be like that... ...or Fukuda made a boo-boo...quote>

or fukuda is just a non-native english "speaker" quote>

An excellent point    

We have many non-native english "speakers" here.   Let's give them a break.

[balkair 6]

yes, sorry that some of us were not born in the USA, the UK and Australia

Try and speak Greek, and then i will critisize you. How would you feel?

And grammar mistakes are made because people use their native tongue as a "basis" upon which they construct the English sentense, and as a result sometimes it may not make sense.

[Zelgadis 638]

Originally posted by: Maxis92

Sorry, but I must  pick at your "rant". quote>

Careful!

*We've reached such a level of decadence that our children is not even able to grasp spelling?

"is" should be "are".quote>

Okay, this is true at least.

*Or it's just that we reject literacy?

"it's" should be "is it".quote>

Nope, sorry.  If this were an academic journal, I would agree.  It isn't, so it's not necessary to write in an academic style.  He's simply using the question mark as an inflection indicator, thus turning the statement into a question.

*People fought to give literacy to all social classes, alphabetism, knowledge and education

"give" should be "teach".quote>

Are you sure about that?  It doesn't have to be that way.  "Teach" would perhaps be a more usual way to do it, but he may have meant it the way he said it.  Without having direct access to his mind, there's no way to be sure.  As it stands, there's nothing wrong with it as he wrote it.

*But it seems that the plans of pedagogy and linguistics doctors all over Europe are to dumb down anything related to literacy, in france and spain no effort is put on literacy, they even try to avoid children from the "boring and annoying task of reading books" so the reading level of middle and low classes is just non-existent, not to tell that spelling is a total disaster in those countries....

The entire thing is a big no-no. I have a headache from trying to proofread it. quote>

This is nothing.  If this gives you a headache, I implore you not to do my job.    I see a couple of run-on sentences here, inappropriate word use, and missing capitalization, but that's all.  Hell, I've seen a lot worse from my university-level writing class, and they were supposedly native speakers!  At least, I think they were.  Sometimes I wonder...

For a non-native English speaker, I'd say that Fukuda does quite well. 

Back on topic, my argument against "dumbing down" English, so to speak, is the same as my reasoning for not using the metric system.  Simplifying English would rob it of all color.  The metric system is nice if you're a scientist, but metric terminology, to be blunt, is loaded with dead words without feeling or emotional attachment.  I do believe that simplifying English spelling would put us on a slippery slope to the simplification of the rest of English, leaving it as cold and dead as the metric system.

ISF

M.A. Linguistics

^Y'all know I'm serious when I whip out the credentials.  ^

[Duke87 1,070]

Originally posted by: Maxis92

Sorry, but I must  pick at your "rant". quote>

It is rather amusing to see someone use words like "decadence" and "pedagogy" in the same post where they do things like improperly conjugate a verb, improperly use a contraction, and fail to capitalize the names of countries, isn't it?

One of your nitpicks is unnecessarily nitpicky, though:

*People fought to give literacy to all social classes, alphabetism, knowledge and education

"give" should be "teach".quote>

Perhaps you would have said "teach", but there is nothing grammatically wrong with saying "give". Nor is it a misuse of the word to do so. If I teach someone something, I have, in a sense, given it to them, have I not? They didn't have it and now they do. It was given to them. Teaching is a kind of giving.

EDIT:

Originally posted by: zelgadis

*Or it's just that we reject literacy?

"it's" should be "is it".quote>

Nope, sorry.  If this were an academic journal, I would agree.  It isn't, so it's not necessary to write in an academic style.  He's simply using the question mark as an inflection indicator, thus turning the statement into a question.quote>

I suppose it isn't grammatically incorrect technically, but it does violate one of those "unwritten rules" with English. If you say "Or it's just that we reject literacy?", it sounds funny. You don't do it. You could say "Or maybe it's just that we reject literacy?" or "Or is it that we reject literacy?", but using "it's" alone in there doesn't really work.

Just like you don't end a sentence with "it's". It wouldn't be grammatically wrong to do so, but try saying the following sentence without it sounding odd:

Just make it quick, whatever it's.

[warrior 169]

While I think getting rid of spelling is ridculous (That comes from a person who loathes English lessons at school(P-a-lease Shakespeare is soo old )) English could do with getting rid of some of the more stupid irregularities. EDIT: Spectrum Tech, your 13? Awesome so am I

[spectrumtech 15]

Must... not... make... newspeak... joke!

Doubleplusbad!

Sorry.

[rant]

Still, this is probably the worst idea I've heard this year.  I am thirteen years old, and I have the utmost respect for the English language.  This is an insult to everyone that speaks the most common language on Planet Earth.

[/rant]

[TimeMaster 4]

Can you gyus udrtnseand me? I wluod hpoe so... Only the first and last letter need to be in the right place to understand... Kndia Wired.

-Time

[Evillions 552]

Originally posted by: TimeMaster Can you gyus udrtnseand me? I wluod hpoe so... Only the first and last letter need to be in the right place to understand... Kndia Wired.

-Timequote>

 

Yes but not that clearly. If anyone going to spell for any language. You need to spell correctly and PLEASE read it. Its better if you read your work and look for corrections. Anyways you sound dumb when anyone spell like:

Hi cann u udrseand wat im saaing? Me so smart me ike oing madth. 

That just sounds dumb and inproper grammer.

[Muck308 55]

I kind of rely on bad grammar as a way to distinguish idiots from the rest of the herd...