The Ultimate Particle Accelerator

[Schmicky 0]

Im sure some of you have seen news on a new particle accelerator being constructed near France and Switzerland, I would post a link but im not good at that; here is a gist of it;

It is supposed to be completed in August 2008, and will be the worlds largest particle accelerator... purpose is to possibly create anti-matter.... and other discoveries.

The problem, well potential problem, some scientists think there is a chance that when activated, it could create a small black hole....some say it could create a whole new dimension.  They say the chances of these occurring are 1 in 50,000,000 - the same as winning the lottery.  The creation of anti-matter and then something going wrong and letting that anti-matter come in contact with matter is beyond cataclysmic some say.

I heard about this a couple months ago and just recently heard another news tidbit about it.

Can anyone say - Resonance Cascade?   Half Life?   Gordon Freeman - i would crap my pants if one of the scientists that will be associated with this new facility is named Gordon Freeman!  

But in all seriousness, my question is (lol) when is someone going to model a particle accelerator and place it on the STex??? LOL  

naw really though, this is STRANGE!

thanks for the pic easy bakes!

[Easy Bakes 253]

Its called the Large Hadron Collider.

A big article in  National Geographic a couple months ago

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2008/03/god-particle/achenbach-text

[Explodingsims 3]

I believe the Resonance Cascade was caused by pushing already existing alien matter into a Anti-matter Spectrometer...Not a particle accelerator.

Seriously though, there's really nothing to worry about. It's a bunch of brilliant scientists who have done all the calculations running experiments. And if the 1 in 100,000,000th chance of a black hole being created happens it will probably be too small to do anything significant, or collapse on itself...

[fukuda 351]

Run! We could be killed by a largely non-supported hypothesis!!

[hamsterTK 93]

I always knew the world would end with some kind of scientific "oopsie"

[GMT 389]

what'll happen if it really creates a black hole?

I mean... would it grow or would it stay inside it's "boundaries"?

if the latter, maybe we could use it as an energy source...

but for the calculations thing exploding sims said, no matter how brilliant the scientists and their calculation programs are, anything can go wrong because they just need to accidentally use a wrong sign or something. seen, take the first 100% computer-guided flight of a commercial aircraft (air france I guess)... where did it end? correct, burning in the woods aside of the airport, on it's maiden flight. 1(!) wrong calculation sign caused it not to touch down.

same for an F117 Nighthawk. 1 wrong calculation sign caused it to crash.

my maths test... 1 wrong sing screwed the whole calculation that btw made hald the points of the whole test...

and so on

btw... I doubt a black hole could be generated with that machine. I mean, it has an unbelivably dense and heavy mass at it's core... how the f.... this is possible to create with our technology and energy supply? well, I'm no subject-related scientist but I just can't imagine it...

[fukuda 351]

btw... I doubt a black hole could be generated with that machine. I mean, it has an unbelivably dense and heavy mass at it's core... how the f.... this is possible to create with our technology and energy supply? well, I'm no subject-related scientist but I just can't imagine it...quote>

Yeah, collide 2 particles and you'll destroy the universe, I wonder how are you going to do it with a tiny paricle accelerator when stars, supernovae and gamma ray bursts failed to do it. Not to tell "creating" a new "dimension"...

But anyway, there are tons more chances about this speculation being false than the odds of it occuring...

But in all seriousness, my question is (lol) when is someone going to model a particle accelerator and place it on the STex??? LOL quote>

I didn't BAT one because they are underground and invisible in aerial view

[ilikehotdogsalot 307]

You guys are reading too many space/end of the world comic books

BTW, CERN's Globe can be seen above ground.

http://e4.physik.uni-dortmund.de/pub/EIV/EivImpressionenPhotoarchive/CERN-Globe.jpg

[coolotter88 2]

cosmic ray particles collide with particles in the atmosphere at the same or greater energy than that imparted to the particles in the LHC. these collisions happen every day and nothing bad has happened yet. besides, the black hole would evaporate and any antimatter that was created and accidentally escapes would annihilate with real matter, but wouldn't be enough to cause any damage.

"ooh, an anti-electron and an electron touched, god help us"

[Micah 16]

We all know what's going to happen...

A resonance cascade is going to occur causing a rip in dimensional seams. Once that occurs, the Combine will enter the dimensional seam and will slowly but surely take over our world.

[Glenni 1,444]

And then we will all get headraped by those pesky headcrabs...

Anyone want an extreme makeover "Alien edition" ?

[Hahayoudied 3]

Lets not get into science fiction for now........

If a black hole does form, it would be too small and weak to cause major damage. If the particles gets out of the machine, if would have to collide with billions of natural particles to destroy the world, and by that time,  the unnatural particles would lose its energy from colliding so many natural particles. We can delevolop new technolegeys with the particle accelerator.

[Santos16 0]

I Agree with you Hahayoudied, but not about the black hole part.

As we all know a black hole is a place where Light, Matter and even time are distored. It's where the thin line of matter and singularity meet. A Black hole is formed when a tremendous amount of energy is exposed and released into a single dot in space/Time. The most comune event to the creation of a black hole, is the explosion of a Supernova ( a Star that is 1000X biggerc than our sun).

Until this point, wheve all heard the same story. But a black hole is no bigger than a few city blocks. The only thing that grants him his size, are the countless rings of fire that spin around the nucleous Billions of miles per hour.

So think this way for a second.

You all mentioned that a black hole would be too small to do anything wrong. But Who small are we talking ?

If we had a B.H the size of an ant, it could easily destroy continets if not the planet.

This really is a case of Size REALLY matters.

But as you said, the chances are 100.000.000 - 1. It's really improbable, but its possible.

[Easy Bakes 253]

They are talking about micro black holes.

Much to small to be seen except by insturments.

And in the outside chance one was created it would be to unstable to exist outside the enviroment it was created in.

[GenericSpaceMarine 0]

Originally posted by: Micah We all know what's going to happen...

A resonance cascade is going to occur causing a rip in dimensional seams. Once that occurs, the Combine will enter the dimensional seam and will slowly but surely take over our world.quote>

And by slow you mean 7 hours right? lol

[psander5 195]

As I understand it, one of the aims of the LHC is to create these 'micro black holes'.  I read a book by Michio Kaku a while ago and in it he explained all this.  My memory's too much like a seive to remember the facts, but he basically said it would be incredibly advantageous to create these black holes. 

The LHC could be the facility that brings this generation its major discoveries.

I'm excited by it. 

Oh, and what Micah said is kind of true!  The LHC could create new universes, but they would be on the other side of a singularity that nothing can move through, and they would collapse again almost instantly.

[Elukka 0]

Santos16 - A black hole is caused by gravitational collapse, that is, the object's internal pressure isn't enough to resist it's own gravity. Theoretically, they could apparently be formed by high-energy collisions, but i know nothing about that really, except that it hasn't been observed. Not yet, anyways.

[saltandsauce 0]

why does anybody care about this? if it is successful then the universe will dissapate and a sign will appear

LEVEL 2

[psander5 195]

What film/book is that from saltandsauce? I've heard/read that somewhere before!!

Edit: Never mind.  It was Frankie Boyle on Mock the Week!!!

[Santos16 0]

Loool God One XD

Elukka youre wright, ive just read another article about Black Holes 101 -.-"

But i'm still wondering. Even though Maths is an exact science, how can a Scientist garantee that The accelerator wont Blow up and Create a new black hole below France ?

[BurroDiablo 222]

Watched a Horizon episode about this thing... wasn't it supposed to be started in April or March? Hmm... I wondered why I wasn't a singularity.

If it did create a Blackhole, it wouldn't have the energy to be sustainable since it takes the power and gravity shattering force of a Supernova to create one... if Blackholes could be created so easily we'd all be dead by now.

As i've come to relise, you can rely on Technology for anything, except being reliable.

[His Divine Hand 244]

Originally posted by: Santos16 Loool God One XD

Elukka youre wright, ive just read another article about Black Holes 101 -.-"

But i'm still wondering. Even though Maths is an exact science, how can a Scientist garantee that The accelerator wont Blow up and Create a new black hole below France ?quote>

A black hole only has as much gravitational pull as the mass that created it. The only reason that (almost) nothing can escape a black hole is that the mass that created it now has zero volume; it occupies a singularity. The worst that could happen with the LHC is that a few micro black holes are created, they combine, and proceed to menace a few sub-atomic particles until they evaporate.

[Easy Bakes 253]

Originally posted by: El Burro Watched a Horizon episode about this thing... wasn't it supposed to be started in April or March? Hmm... I wondered why I wasn't a singularity.

If it did create a Blackhole, it wouldn't have the energy to be sustainable since it takes the power and gravity shattering force of a Supernova to create one... if Blackholes could be created so easily we'd all be dead by now.

As i've come to relise, you can rely on Technology for anything, except being reliable.quote>

 

The article in National Georgaphic explanes some of the delays.

Has to redesign and reinstall several of the huge magnet assemblys.

[Duke87 1,070]

Obligatory xkcd posting:

[Schmicky 0]

The history channel had a program about weapons - past, present and future weapons...and about future weapons, some scientists think the next type of bomb would be an anti-matter bomb. So im just thinking the goal of building this LHC could just be to create an anti-matter weapon. Can anyone say "Manhattan Project" number 2??

[Hahayoudied 3]

An anti-matter bomb is going to be really destructive. If it is too powerful, then the bombers and the entire world would be destroyed.

[City2TheMax 3]

sounds optimistic

[masochist 111]

Originally posted by: Schmicky The history channel had a program about weapons - past, present and future weapons...and about future weapons, some scientists think the next type of bomb would be an anti-matter bomb. So im just thinking the goal of building this LHC could just be to create an anti-matter weapon. Can anyone say "Manhattan Project" number 2??quote>

As written by Dan Brown, eh ?

All I'll say on the subject (since I don't know much about it that hasn't already been said) is that I wouldn't underestimate the power of human oversight.  They may think there's a 1-in-50,000,000 chance, but God help us if they forgot to carry a 2 somewhere....

[The_Dalai_Llama 15]

Originally posted by: masochist

Originally posted by: Schmicky The history channel had a program about weapons - past, present and future weapons...and about future weapons, some scientists think the next type of bomb would be an anti-matter bomb. So im just thinking the goal of building this LHC could just be to create an anti-matter weapon. Can anyone say "Manhattan Project" number 2??quote>

As written by Dan Brown, eh ?

All I'll say on the subject (since I don't know much about it that hasn't already been said) is that I wouldn't underestimate the power of human oversight.  They may think there's a 1-in-50,000,000 chance, but God help us if they forgot to carry a 2 somewhere....quote>

 

Or if one of the scientists wins the lottery.

[ACEfanatic 7]

Originally posted by: Schmicky The history channel had a program about weapons - past, present and future weapons...and about future weapons, some scientists think the next type of bomb would be an anti-matter bomb. So im just thinking the goal of building this LHC could just be to create an anti-matter weapon. Can anyone say "Manhattan Project" number 2??quote>

Heh.

Antimatter isn't produced in that kind of quantity.  We're talking quantum-level stuff here -- quark-sized stuff.  (Hint:  quarks make protons look big.)

Antimatter--matter annihilation is the purest example of Einstein's equation E=mc².  But since the quantities of both matter and antimatter are so low (it's always a 1-to-1 ratio) you get exceptionally little energy out of it -- less than it took to produce the antimatter in the first place.

Now, if we could produce antimatter on a larger scale, that would be different (a milligram or so of anti-lithium would have about the same yield as a modern nuclear warhead.)  But the energy required is extreme.  (And frankly, there's precious little advantage to using antimatter over standard nuclear warheads -- the magnetic bottle to contain it would more than make up for the mass difference.)

Anyway.

Really, there's no inherent threat from a particle accelerator.  The idiotic media likes to say there is, because, y'know, destroying the universe is cool.  The only reason there's not been a massive rebuttal is that this is a largely unexplored and unknown area of physics, so there's not enough data.

Also:  Duke87 wins the thread with xkcd.

-ACE