Why Societies is great, and it's major marketting flaw...

[3vol 0]

SimCity Societies is a fantastic game. If you disagree, then clearly you were expecting it to be a game in SimCity franchise, and why wouldn't you? It did bear the SimCity title. Therein lies the huge marketing flaw surrounding it.

This game should have been called SimSociety, end of story. Attaching the SimCity brand to it may have sold a few million copies, but in the end it's what will kill the game. It's why it was reviewed so poorly, and it's why the SimCity community hates it with a passion. If the game was simply called SimSociety then I am convinced it would have reviewed better, and been more generally accepted, and conversely ignored, by the right people.

When I see post after post, on multiple forums, of "LOL I played societies for 10 minutes and it was geigh. Wait for SC5!" it really breaks my heart. First of all, anyone who judges a game after playing it for 10 minutes is retarded. Second, societies should not be considered a sequel to SC4 or a replacement for SC5, despite how much EA's marketing wants you to accept that idea.

I will admit that I did not start playing until Update 3, which explains why I do not have the bitterness that so many others have that may have bought it last year. Without the implementation of strategic modes and automatic firing of building events the game is wholly uninteresting and incredibly easy. I do find the game to be one of the most interesting I've experienced in years, though.

I've spent a lot of time here talking about the marketing flaws, but not a whole lot about why it's great. So here it is. The elimination of the complexity of SC4's city building and the focus on the individual sims and their relationship to the city is fascinating. The UI for showing the ways different buildings influence each other and the sims, and conversely how the "Special Sims" affect each other and the buildings, is perfectly executed. The potential for role play is huge, as each time I've set out to build a themed city it's come out exactly like I wanted and I enjoy just watching it play. I've built Berkley, CA. I've built a small island community with no electricity and no roads. I've also built a themed city based on the NiN album "Year Zero" showing a confrontation between a heavily religious authoritarian society and an artistic-rebellious group of cyberpunks. I still haven't built half the ideas I have in mind as well.  Finally, it's insane level of simple XML based customization, healthy mod community, and frequent support and massive updates make it an evolving experience that is difficult to stay caught up with there is so much new content to explore, and destinations is gonna make that even better.

I have never had technical issues playing this game, either. Not one crash, and I have left it running overnight on some of my stable cities achieving play times of well over 1000 days. I have a fairly new machine, certainly not the most amazing PC but a pretty good one.

I have my complaints as well, but I believe over time they will be ironed out. 

[catty-cb 4,412]

It may be a great game, but I can't play it for more than a couple of minutes before my Video Card starts overheating (my PC isn't a gaming PC, more middle of the road, but I have a heatsink and four fans in it, and should be able to at least play it without risking a meltdown each time) and the last update (4) caused more problems that it fixed, at least till update (3)  I used to have trees.

[thehandyman 11]

I don't think the name has anything to do with it. You do understand that the whole game has to do with making a 'city'. Calling it 'SimSociety' is best suited with 'The Sims' because the name has nothing to do with cities and deals with people's living conditions.

One of the major reasons why people are upset with the game would be because of removal of the ability to zone.

Another reason would be because there are so many buildings to choose and it overwhelms the people.

Another would be because most people don't have video cards up to date, like what Cathy said.

Also, people have downloaded so many mods for SC4 they feel attached to the game, so they will make biased comments.

The disasters are not that impressive, and there isn't much of them.

Honestly it is a great game, great graphics, cool features 'like the drunk people', but it just needs more work put into it.

[krbe 193]

Even if it was called SimsSocieties they would have a hard time convincing me that a city of 8 000 and skyscrapers match.

And achieving play times "of well over 1000 days"? When I play SimCity, I hardly achieve anything the first first three years (unless I'm playing a "special tile" where private or federal funding would speed things up). It all feels abit like small, dedicated winery was taken over by a big industry conglomerate that in the end chose to slap a respected wine brand on soda cans.

The soda itself might not be bad; but if you're used to fine wine, it's nothing but a disappointment.

[3vol 0]

All of your comments are made in comparison to SimCity which is exactly the problem IMO. I disagree, handyman, you are not building a city so to speak. Being able to plop down a power station a few miles away and not do any wiring to hook it up, and being able to start building your city from the top down, making your first building skyscrapper if you want, clearly demonstrates to me that this game is not about realistic city building.

The naming mistake is akin to if they called The Sims something like SimCity Houses or SimCity People. The Sims was the perfect name for that game because it accurately describes what it is and doesn't steal fame from a previous franchise.

There's a reason it was called SimCity Societies and not SimCity 5. The same reason it should have just been called SimSociety. Then people wouldn't expect it to be a realistic city builder like SimCity 4 was.

As for the technical issues, they really should have put system requirements on the side of the box. If they did that I don't see a problem with needing a great system to play it. Many modern games require the player to have a killer system.

The soda comparison is a good one, and I think it's exactly the problem. If they had just labeled the game as soda then no one would have expected it to be wine.

[DARKO 3]

I'm sorry, the game is complete crap.

Here is why.

-The movement of the camera and rotation/zoom is very clunky and clumsy. It doesn't feel natural at all. This needed to be much smoother. I have a top of the line quad core computer also. Just not what I expected.

-The graphics are not as good as first thought. Very blurry and not refined. (I have a 8800 overclocked GTX). Buildings Look great by themselves, but when put into context with others to create a city look unscaled and out of porportion.(what a zoo is only slighty bigger than a house lot?) The colors look childish and do not gel well with the natural landscape. There is just not this cohesive feeling of a relaisitc feel to all the sum of all the parts(roads,buildings terrain,texture, camera movement....) once you get everything going. Sure it is what it is., but the graphics once you zoom in are way to blocky and duplo building block like.

-Replay value is astonsihing low. Still no Bat, trains,freeways,avenues and cities sizes are no bigger than a small suburb. Really even if u added all that stuff you can't make a worthwhile city with the laughable city space you are given.

You have to be a very entry level sim game player to enjoy this game. I'm sorry . Any simulation builder die-hard will have the same reservations. Forgot the "people should stop acting like it should be like SC4". Bottm line is this game does not have a overall feel to it. It feels scattershot and very child like.

[Callbat 8]

The game is not fun to play.

That is why its a load of .......

[3vol 0]

- Movement of the camera and rotation/zoom is fine for me.

- Graphics are fine for me, and are generally inconsequential anyways. I don't play games for good graphics. It's a nice addition, but I'm more about gameplay than graphics.

- As for replay value, I have already put in well over 100 hours and I still don't have all the achievements on Nightmare difficulty. I plan to put in 100 more and 200+ hours playtime for a game is a fair investment if you compare it to other games, or any other form of entertainment in our society.

- Yes, I am not a hardcore sim player and obviously Societies was built for the non-hardcore player. This goes back to my statement that the biggest problem was slapping the name SimCity on this because all the SimCity fans were expecting something for them, the hardcore players. For some of us, SC4 was too hardcore and we wanted something simpler.

- As for the game not being fun to play, I can't believe you'd make such an obviously subjective comment. You may not find it fun, but I assure you there are people that do including me and a few of my friends.

[_MostlyHarmless 17]

I'm sure it's fun some some people. But most of the die hard Simcity fans will be looking for something much more like CU looks to be delivering.

[The_Dalai_Llama 15]

Originally posted by: northsider1983 I'm sure it's fun some some people. But most of the die hard Simcity fans will be looking for something much more like CU looks to be delivering.quote>

 

Bingo.  This was clearly aimed at SimCity fans, but we like our realism and our gazillion options which explains the backlash.  If SCS was named SimSociety and aimed for a more casual audience, it would probably fare better among some reviewers and the gaming public and we wouldn't be so angry with the game.

[mark the metropolian 0]

Well i like the game, but i need to play the game some more, before i can say anything

[GMT 389]

with the naming thing, you gave a pretty good point.

of course, when you start promoting a game called simcity societies... god, the world waits for a blockbuster, well knowing what sc4 has become over time.

and then you get your hands on it and go like "*****..."

the name suggested a woderfull city-simulation paired with a social touch.

fact is, the opposite happened: a social simulation paired with a city-building touch.

and all the high expectations, linked to the "simcity" in it, went down the sink.

EVERYBODY who said the name has nothing to do with it lies. why? go by a bently or a ferrari or an aston martin and think about your expectations cuz of the name.

would you be happy with an 75hp, badly manufactured plastic car then?

see, that's what happened to the community.

so, if SC:S would not have that SC in it, it would have never been judged with the high bar that all the other SC titles have set, what without a doubt would have resulted in a better acceptance in the community and the media.

or, taking it to other genres: would you gladly play a need for speed or forza that's all about gocarts and scooters? would you go an proudly buy a call of duty or battlefield that's all about supersoakers? certainly not.

so why would you even think of accepting a sim city that has equally rare allusions to city building and focuses more on the social side of life?

so, as for the naming, I totally have to agree with you 3vol.

fo the gaming experience it creates, I can't judge it at all since I refuse to play it cuz the mix of simcity and sims simply doesn't fit my expectations. I want either a full city simulation OR a full social simulation.

and therefore I don't know anything about the real SC:S community either.

so it's not to me to judge this.

But I see the challenges in the concept of SC:S for the player and I can totally understand that it's a pretty interesting and certainly absorbing gameplay... IF you wan't to have such a themed game.

Another thing I understand is why the EA vampires (I don't like the strategy they have made their own, they are to monopolistic, so this statement has nothing to do with what they did to SC... for now) and the guys over at TM (what I think was a good choice if it (SC) really had to go away from maxis) did the social thing.

It's a big player in the whole city thing to ballance social stuff aswell and ... get around to sort out problems that come up with it.

But this kinda pushed loads of the city aspect out of the game, and therefore it simply doesn't fit to bear the big name SimCity.

Sim Societies... ain't that good either, implements a relation to the sims, what's even farther away than simcity.

IMHO, the best naming for this thing would have been City Societies.

Because, let's be honest, that's what you get.

I really hope the ... guys over at EA get this straight and make the societies branch what it really is: a branch of it's own, and bless us with a real city simulation in the near future, as teh guys over at montecristo are about to do, and without a doubt more successfull than what happened with SC:S

[3vol 0]

It's interesting, because of this thread I started to research what "CU" was. Took me a while to figure out it was Cities Unlimited. I then found out that City Life is very similar to SC:S, and SC:S was probably created to compete specifically with City Life (odd choice when you are the current leader). I then read that CU is actually going to be called CitiesXL and it looks AWESOME! It has everything I like about SC:S, but looks to be a far better city builder and has MMO qualities. I can't wait!

I have started downloading a "demo" copy of City Life 2008 and will play around with that some. If I like it then I'll go out and buy it and maybe I'll be done with SC:S altogether.

[UrbanLegend 63]

Here is why SimCities Societies, City Life and probably CitiesXL (AKA Cities Unlimited) suck and SC4 ruled. Transportation - some 50% or more of a city consists of it's transportation infrastructure. Highways, rail, ferry, airports, various road and street configuration. These games treat it like it was an afterthought. The only reason people who live in New Jersey, Brooklyn or Connecticut can work in Manhattan is because there are highways, commuter rails and subways to take them there. A city is defined by its transpo network.

Also, one thing that SC4 did was provide visual cues as to the health of the neighborhood. When property values dropped or buildings became abandoned, they became visably dilapadated. Neighborhoods became slums as a symptom of your poor urban planning, not because you said "plop tenemant housing here, plop shantytown there".

[panthersimcity4 162]

I have to admit, at first it was kind of fun. After around 4 days I got so bored I literally wanted to destroy it.

[Deep Thought 0]

Editing SC4 means a lot messages like "This software kit costs $99" or "You have to be 18 to be a member" or "Please fill in your zip code". A nightmare for a 14-year-old European.

But Sim City Societes keeps you away from these messages thanks to XML. Just open notepad and start edit. If you suck at these script, you can always get free and free-from-downloading help from people with these knowledges. Just take and look at forums.civfanatics.com (For Civilization 4) and click costumization, then you see what people has created with XML and Photoshop.

[krbe 193]

Originally posted by: Deep Thought Editing SC4 means a lot messages like "This software kit costs $99" or "You have to be 18 to be a member" or "Please fill in your zip code". A nightmare for a 14-year-old European.

But Sim City Societes keeps you away from these messages thanks to XML. Just open notepad and start edit. If you suck at these script, you can always get free and free-from-downloading help from people with these knowledges. Just take and look at forums.civfanatics.com (For Civilization 4) and click costumization, then you see what people has created with XML and Photoshop.quote>

What kind of "editing" have you done in SC? And why is it so hard to put a zip code in a field, or telling them that you were born in 1967? It's not like they care who you really are.

[Deep Thought 0]

IMO, I think that the original SimCity series should change name to SimCity Infrastructure, because that's what it's appearently about.

Originally posted by: krbe

Originally posted by: Deep Thought Editing SC4 means a lot messages like "This software kit costs $99" or "You have to be 18 to be a member" or "Please fill in your zip code". A nightmare for a 14-year-old European.

But Sim City Societes keeps you away from these messages thanks to XML. Just open notepad and start edit. If you suck at these script, you can always get free and free-from-downloading help from people with these knowledges. Just take and look at forums.civfanatics.com (For Civilization 4) and click costumization, then you see what people has created with XML and Photoshop.quote>

What kind of "editing" have you done in SC? And why is it so hard to put a zip code in a field, or telling them that you were born in 1967? It's not like they care who you really are.quote>

First of all, the only time I've been editing was in SC3000 World Edition's pre-installed BAT. Second, I hate to tell lies, because I then get a bad conscience. I'm a super-honest guy. I'm also afraid that if I tell I'm Jason Brencher from NYC, aged 34, how big is the chance that I get loads of spam and commercials about AT&T offers, shaving tools etc.?

[Jazzmaster 716]

Originally posted by: Deep Thought IMO, I think that the original SimCity series should change name to SimCity Infrastructure, because that's what it's appearently about.quote>

I actually couldn't disagree more with that statement.  The name fits perfectly, because the word "Sim" is actually short for "Simulator"; which is exactly what Sim City is all about, a city simulator.  I agree with the above too, that the name doesn't fit.  When they gave the name Sim City Societies, people expected a City Simulator.  However, unlike SC4, which was a city simulator with The Sims kinda thrown in the background (My Sim Mode), it was The Sims, with Sim City thrown in the background (you spend all this time on Social Energy, oh wait, but you can build roads too).  If it was Sim Societies, people would've expected a more casual "The Sims" game, with a city building/social appeal.  Oh well, kinda late to tell this to EA now...

So just as "If you don't like it, don't download it, no one is forcing you!" (-Haljackey), "If you don't like it, don't buy it, no one is forcing you!"

[+Guest]

I watched a couple of videos on the game, and I liked what I saw. Sure, the roads may not be as co-operative, but I liked the big variety of buildings you can construct. I never really liked placing powerlines and water pipes, so this game would allow me to concentrate on building more homes, venues, and businesses for my Sims.

[figaro_black 0]

The first time I opened the game I was bored after an hour or so of game play. Since at that time there were no objectives, no difficulty levels, no nothing. Just plop and play and keep your inhabitants happy.

Now, I'm working on achieving the 'Jack of All Trades' trophy to unlock the next difficulty level. I still haven't figured it out and so it keeps the game interesting for me.

Many of the building related things that the game lacks I think will be added later on. Such as beaches, boats, trains and all those other things I miss. One thing that annoys me, however, is how they in the preview pictures of the game showed us channel walks, for example, that they then have not included. That I think is false marketing. Of course, all those things should have been included from the beginning but hey, it's EA we're talking about here who've made how many EP's for Sims 1 and 2?

Anyhow, you've all made good points. But the thing I think the game is really lacking is the feedback from its predecessors. Citizens would clamour for schools, for hospitals, for workplaces. Not any more. Or if they are, they sure aren't saying anything. That aspect I would like to have back to get a more varied game.

Also, the 'sim interaction' system seems a little bit...just thrown in. You can click a sim, see its general mood but it will not tell you what would make their life better. Do they want a new garden, or would an ice cream parlour make it happier?

The final thing I really miss is the 'developing city'. I would very much like to have the abilty to plop down homes, venues, workplaces etc. that could grow. Start with a farm house, that will grow into a two story small town house, that will grow, and grow to accomodate a growing population etc.

I think, that with a little more thought and a little bit of development this game could turn out great. Just as long as you don't expect a realistic city management game.

[Deep Thought 0]

You can actually say SCS is a simulator. For me, simulator means open-ended. You just don't end up with only one possible kind of city/society, but you're able to actually take the game to any direction you want.

Yoshi Island, I think you misunderstood me, you were reacting like SimCity changed name to SimCity. You should've noticed that I actually added Infrastructure into the name. I meant that the main element in WW's SimCity is that you manage and take care of the different transportations and constructions in the society to make it grow. That is what you hard core SC fans are looking after. SCS was meant to get a new group of player's which never understood the old concept of micro-management.

[slaper 0]

3vol, SimCity is SimCity since 1989. You build areas and the city raises. SC:S is a EA tentative to copy Monte Cristo City Life (beautiful, but a sucks). The trouble for me of SC:S is the possibility of me choice one of three builds of begining and repeat them during a 5 minutes.

The solution of SC:S is make you choices the areas (Residential, Commercial and Industrial) with the social force (for example, Residential Spiritual). And the sim build randomically the houses and other things. And where is the transit trouble? And water problems? And polution? A city have this and much more.

Monte Cristo see this troubles and create Cities XL, a game minus City Life and plus SimCity. If Monte Cristo makes it, SC:S is a better way for EA? I expect Maxis Sim City 5.

Sorry by my bad english.

[FreakAboutSims 0]

OP, the SimCity community just like to bawww more the lost of their features.

I bet no one actually tried to make a decent city yet because they haven't found a suitable technique like what I am trying to find.

Also, they can't afford new computers which is why the claim the graphics are better in SimCity 4.

[FreakAboutSims 0]

OP, the SimCity community just like to bawww more the lost of their features.

I bet no one actually tried to make a decent city yet because they haven't found a suitable technique like what I am trying to find.

Also, they can't afford new computers which is why the claim the graphics are better in SimCity 4.

[FreakAboutSims 0]

OP, the SimCity community just like to bawww more the lost of their features.

I bet no one actually tried to make a decent city yet because they haven't found a suitable technique like what I am trying to find.

Also, they can't afford new computers which is why the claim the graphics are better in SimCity 4.