NAM General Discussion Thread

[edcase2k4-thugangel1983 1]

okay.. i have all the models from the SC1.dat file, i have no idea how to find those which are components of highways/onramps.. this is what i need. can anyone help? if i look through the massive selection of models it will take me all year to identify them

[the7trumpets 10]

use the texture viewer under the tools menu to see the IIDs of overhead textures which are used to skin the straight and curved pieces, as well as elevated highway cross overs over rail, roads, and streets. The s3d models for those pieces are at the same IID as those textures.

The s3ds for the interchanges between highways and other highways, overpasses, etc. are located in the 0x0c###### range. If you look in the RUL file at IID 0x10000000, and look for the interchange in particular that you want to find a piece for, you can find the AutoTileBase property which will give you the IID of the top left s3d for that interchange. Good luck!!!

[Thalassicus 33]

Ok, I'm a little confused: what exactly do I need and in what format? Do I need to do all 5 zooms of the texture, or will that be handled through the ingame renderer, and I just need to convert the Photoshop files to BMP then FSH and stick them in a DAT? Or should I texture the images onto 4 flat blank models and send them to you? I formerly only had experience with BAT's and lots, and any seperate area of SC4 modding has a steep learning curve

 

Anyways, I'm compiling all the unfilled requests that have been made in this thread, to make it easier when you get around to creating an official NAM requests thread

 

The first post could contain all the standing requests, and when they are completed they could just be edited out of the post. New requests could be added in a likewise matter.

 

[edit] Finished, and moved: the new thread can be found here . [/edit]

[BrandonTheGreat 0]

the7trumpets, I asked this to the group and they said it was possible a little than a week ago. Concerning collector-distributor highways, you know the Express/Local systems they have in Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, and not to mention, the massive version of it in Toronto.


This is what I mean if you don't know, the collector-distributor system. Now would there be ways to build over it with roads and rails. Another thing, is it possible for a side ramp from express lanes to local lanes.

Also if that is possible, would a to and from system be possible to each. Like in this picture below:
(Compliments of www.thekingshighway.ca)

Anyways, look in the upper right of this picture, that is the basketweave structure they call it. What I mean is that it is an interchange from express to local, or local to express, together.

Also, would there be a way to make a mod where you don't have to use multi-highways to build this? This would be greatly appreciated.

[edcase2k4-thugangel1983 1]

whew.. all them numbers on a bright screen is not good for my eyes when im this tired! im trying to find the four (eight?!) rotations of the simple straight ground and raised highway pieces.. and also for the simple off/on ramps on to these pieces. ive been looking at the RUL file but struggled to find these particular ones. i want to get on to some modelling lol

EDIT
actually, ive found them i think

[the7trumpets 10]

Date: 9/15/2004 3:36:04 PM
Author: Thalassicus


Ok, I'm a little confused: what exactly do I need and in what format? Do I need to do all 5 zooms of the texture, or will that be handled through the ingame renderer, and I just need to convert the Photoshop files to BMP then FSH and stick them in a DAT? Or should I texture the images onto 4 flat blank models and send them to you? I formerly only had experience with BAT's and lots, and any seperate area of SC4 modding has a steep learning curve

quote>


Sorry about that, Thalassicus. I think during part of this process I was incorrectly thinking we were going to do them with normal 2d-style RULes, which really isn't possible. Silly me Since it is a '3d' network piece, all we need is one model for each tile. The in game rendering engine will size it accordingly.

The FSH textures are not the end product, you'll just need them to skin the 'flat' s3d models. So what I need is an s3d, with an accompanying FSH for each tile you want in the game.




After doing some more thinking, it's quite possible to use the override rules to create actual visual entrances to an entrance puzzle piece. This has several advantages. First, it will be blatantly obvious for anyone making a parking lot whether or not thier parking lot will work. Secondly, it will not require people to draw a network into the entrance lot in order for them to see automata turning into the parking lot. Third, it will just look cool .

All that is necissary to make this look right is to make your 'entrance' tile (the one with the arrows) meet up seemlessly with a 02 RUL side street. This probably means adding some sort of shading where the oil stains and tire tracks fade out, so that it looks correct. As an example:

RRRRRRRRRR
RPPPPPPCCC
RPPCCPPCCC
RPPCCPPCCC
REPPPPPCCC
RPPPPPPCCC
RCCCCCC
RCCCCCC

R= road
P= parking lot (non entrance puzzle piece)
E= parking lot entrance puzzle piece
C= Commercial zone

In this example, the R texture immediately to the west of the E parking lot entrance tile would change to the FSH file at IID 0x00aa0800, rotated clockwise 270 degrees (3 turns). I'll probably duplicate the tile for the different wealth classes and remove the beginnings of the tree lawns so it doesn't look weird. But all that's necissary is for the entrance side of the entrance lot (west side in the above example) to line up with the applicable street texture, and fade into the parking lot texture you're using.


To recap, in case I mudled the issue even more, I need a 'flat' s3d model skinned with your custom FSH textures for each tile. I only need one per tile, the game will size and rotate/flip as necissary.

oh, and great job recapping some of the requests

[BrandonTheGreat 0]

I see I am being ignored again, please can you tell me if my post earlier on this page is possible for mods?

[the7trumpets 10]

Date: 9/15/2004 4:10:42 PM
Author: edcase2k4-thugangel1983
whew.. all them numbers on a bright screen is not good for my eyes when im this tired! im trying to find the four (eight?!) rotations of the simple straight ground and raised highway pieces.. and also for the simple off/on ramps on to these pieces. ive been looking at the RUL file but struggled to find these particular ones. i want to get on to some modelling lol


EDIT

actually, ive found them i think

quote>


I'll give you a little head start here


The straight elevated piece is located at IID 0x02001504
The straight ground piece is located at IID 0x0a001504

To find the interchanges, look at the top of the RUL file at IID 0x10000000. Look at the comments to the right, there are two large sections near the top named Parallel Ramp and Perpendicular Ramp. Find the interchange you want from the comments to the right of the lines with all the numbers under those headings, and then find the section which starts:

[HighwayIntersectionInfo_0x0000####]

Where the #### is the first number in the line commented with the type of interchange you're looking for.

There are typically three interchanges for each type that are detailed in full, and the other 9 rotations are coppied, flipped, or rotated from those 3. There are three instead of two because there are two different possibilities of how the tiles can line up when two diagonal networks come together.


Hope that helps!!!

[+Guest]

TGC's Stack Interchange looks great, WHY ISNT THIS OUT YET?

[frogface 352]

Date: 9/15/2004 4:18:31 PM
Author: BrandonTheGreat
I see I am being ignored again, please can you tell me if my post earlier on this page is possible for mods?

quote>

you can already do with with multi highways... theres a tutorial on how to do it on the STEX

[the7trumpets 10]

Date: 9/15/2004 4:18:31 PM
Author: BrandonTheGreat
I see I am being ignored again, please can you tell me if my post earlier on this page is possible for mods?

quote>


Sorry about that

I wouldn't exactly call 30 minutes being ignored, but you did ask a long time ago, and in this thread, if you don't get an answer in 12 hours, it's on to another page . (which is why I need to get those new threads made).


Anyway, using the 'multihighways' trick, it is possible to create orthagonal 4 tile wide psuedo-highways. It should already be possible to create orthagonal side ramps to the non-express lanes (outer two tiles). Interchanges, diagonal ramps, and over/underpasses, however, would have to have every single interchange edited slightly and have rules rewritten for it.

As for drawing these networks without using the multi-highways construct, demolish, etc. procedure, it's doubtful. There is a chance (a slim one) that we could use the ANT as exterior lanes, and just use the same models as the normal highway. However, the main problem is travel direction. Since it would be a oneway network, I'm not really sure off the top of my head if there would be any way to make the rules and paths work, to keep the traffic flowing in the correct direction.

[greyveil 37]

the7trumpets, I am currently working on a webpage that contains visuals of all the existing interchanges in the NAM, you think we need to put this in the first post, and if so, in which of the new threads?

[the7trumpets 10]

Date: 9/15/2004 4:54:56 PM
Author: greyveil
the7trumpets, I am currently working on a webpage that contains visuals of all the existing interchanges in the NAM, you think we need to put this in the first post, and if so, in which of the new threads?

quote>

That's great!

I read about you making that web page, but I didn't know for sure if you'd have time or not. I'll probably put it in both the 'requests' and 'bugs/problems' thread, since people wanting to make requests need to ensure that it's not possible yet, and people experiencing bugs might be helped by a visual representation like your site.

Since Tropod just posted that he's back (whew... thank GOODness!), I PMed him about the new threads, just to make sure he's okay with it. Once he has made his opinion known, I'll put up the threads.

[Sabretooth78 808]

To go along with those requests, a basic set of interchanges for avenues would be great, especially in light of the Y-stack recently added to the NAM.  It would totally open up the avenue as a mid-capacity expressway option that would actually physically resemble 95% of highways in real life.  As good as a new network type in my opinion!

 

Also, I notice the NAM includes one-sided (or one-directional) perpendicular off ramps for elevated highways only.  Is there one of these for ground highways in the works?

 

Another thing that could be added to the request list is an appropriate highway terminal for a perpendicular crossing.  Here's an example in case I'm not clear enough:

This happens to be the southern terminus of the US-219 expressway in Springville, NY.  You can see that this expressway was (and still is) intended to be extended at one time by the stub end barrels in between the ramps.  Something like this is generally more appropriate for real-world highway terminals, although there are some which resemble the current way of ending highways (I-89 in Concord is an example of an expressway that essentially ends at a surface street with no ramps.)  This could maybe even be accomplished via a ground highway side off ramp similar to No. 12 on the list, only reverse.

Now, to counter my own personal requests, if someone can get me the elevations, thicknesses, widths, etc (basically all critical dimensions) of an SC4 highway segment (particularly ground highways), I'm offering to model a trumpet interchange, and possibly one of the Y-splits joexcooldude requested (#17 on your list).  I'll ask for this basic startup data since I'm too backed up with my own stuff to spend time farting around with the minutae.  Perhaps this data is (or can be) listed somewhere central for the general BATing public?

 

-Chris

[the7trumpets 10]

Date: 9/15/2004 5:17:18 PM
Author: sargeantcm

Now, to counter my own personal requests, if someone can get me the elevations, thicknesses, widths, etc (basically all critical dimensions) of an SC4 highway segment (particularly ground highways), I'm offering to model a trumpet interchange, and possibly one of the Y-splits joexcooldude requested (#17 on your list). I'll ask for this basic 'startup' data since I'm too backed up with my own stuff to spend time farting around with the minutae. Perhaps this data is (or can be) listed somewhere central for the general BATing public?

-Chris

quote>

Sure!

I'm not really sure of the demensions. However, I can give you the next best thing:


The straight orthagonal elevated highway piece is located at s3d IID 0x02001504
The straight orthagonal ground highway piece is located at s3d IID 0x0a001504

both of these s3ds are in sc_1.dat, the textures they use (FSH textures at the same IIDs) are in sc_4.dat

good luck!

[dominohobbes 27]

Date:9/15/2004 4:30:33 PM
Author:valadimir

TGC's Stack Interchange looks great, WHY ISNT THIS OUT YET?

quote>  Yeah, I've waited quite awhile for this and I'd like to see it completed before anything else.

[FireSka 20]

Date:9/15/2004 6:08:46 PM
Author:dominohobbes

Date:9/15/2004 4:30:33 PM
Author:valadimir

TGC's Stack Interchange looks great, WHY ISNT THIS OUT YET?

quote>  Yeah, I've waited quite awhile for this and I'd like to see it completed before anything else.

quote>

I agree, I really am anticipating this.  It should be next in line if it isn't already.  But I guess patience is a virtue...espically with Tropod and anyone else not working on it because they are busy.  The day it is released though, will be a great day for me.

[Sabretooth78 808]

OK, here are the interchanges that I'm going to [attempt to] model: (excuse my lack of Paint talent)

 

Basically, the 3 base possibilities for forward trumpet interchanges (i.e. tight loop is on the on-ramp), and a couple semi-directional Ys.  I may be able to make more simple derivations and a backwards trumpet, especially for #3 (loop on the off-ramp) based on mirroring these, etc.  The squashed trumpet, #6 may be a bit more of a challenge, I'm considering that as a maybe right now.  NH drivers will recognize that as the I-93/I-293 split in Hooksett.  I'm intending the loop ramps to be similar in radius to the cloverleaf loops (which in real life would be a woefully inadequate radius).

 

For the time being, I'm only going to consider Ground-Ground highway interchanges, I don't think you'd ever see one of these (except for maybe 4 & 5) on an Elevated-Elevated system anyways.  Elevated-Ground combinations may be considered in the future.

 

What I'm going to need is to enlist somebody to do the actual skinning and path editing, etc. for these lots.  At the moment I intend only on modeling, however do have an interest in the whole process so I may take a crack at it eventually, but not at least for a few months until I clean my plate.

 

I'm not committing to a timetable on these since I have other projects I want to complete/start as well.

 

So who's up to the task?

 

-Chris

[the7trumpets 10]

Sign me up for RULes!!!

If nobody does the paths, I don't mind doing them, but the RULes are my strongest area.


However, #4 and #5 look identical to me, just flip along the vertical axis and rotate 180 degrees. This means you only really need to do one of them.

[Sabretooth78 808]

T7T - Yup you're absolutely right.  The same interchange can be rotated or mirrored to create all 4 possible directions.  And thanks for the instance IDs, I was able to export them to 3DS and get them right into gmax - better than dimensions!

 

One thing I would like to do, but I think it might look foolish, is eliminate the Jersey barrier on the ramps.  I might try an iteration to see what it would look like without them.  I would also like to create the flyover approaches on earth embankments, not piers.  Is this possible?  In my opinion, there's too much use of piers in the game.

 

Something else I've thought of is a highway-road and highway-avenue trumpet to complement the highway-highway I intend on building first.  We'll see how well this goes first.

 

-Chris

[Mdz1001 0]

Wasn't TGC also working on a highway Y-interchange? What happened to that?

 

I agree with sargeantcm with the set of avenue interchanges. That would be awesome for rural highways.

[the7trumpets 10]

Since those instanceIDs helped so much, here are the diagonal straight pieces:


the 'outside' of the diagonal freeway, with only one direction of lanes on it:

0x02002204 - elevated highway
0x0a002204 - ground highway

the 'inside' of the digaonal freeway, with both directions on the same tile:

0x02002204 - elevated highway
0x0a002104 - ground highway


As a side note, even though I've never used gmax, I've often wondered if it would be easy to take a model and just rotated it 45 degrees and re-align it on the grid to make a diagonal version, and then scoot it up half a tile (along the orthagonal direction, if there is an orthagonal network) to make the alternate diagonal version.

However, I don't really understand how the chopping and everything like that occurs, so it might be more complex than I'm making it out. Also, I'm not absolutely certain that the highway lanes are the same size in the orthagonal and diagonal setups. I know the avenue is more squished (median taken away) in the diagonal version, which is why the Avenue Y model couldn't simply be rotated and turned into a two orthagonal - one diagonal avenue Y from the current two diagonal one orthagonal Y setup.





[edit]

sergantcm:

If you want to tackle avenue onramps, you may want to take a look at some of the 'left over' FSH textures maxis left in the 0x0200#### series, in SC_4.dat. There are about 10 textures that look like they were made for two lane ground highways, and then for some reason they decided to use the existing elevated highway models and textures, just without the supports. The orientation and look of the ramps looks like it would be symilar to something you would need, though, so it might be worth a look.

[Thalassicus 33]

*Whew!* Just finished updating the requests through page 30, will do through page 60 when I can

Once the official requests thread is up and the list is copied over (whenever that might be) I'll delete the requests from that post.

[Edit] All of the unfilled, possible requests should now be listed in the post, from page 1 through 60! Many of the recent ones were repeats and duplicates of earlier ones, so I combined them into the prior requests.

[timotheus4 39]

Date: 9/10/2004 10:37:14 PM
Author: timotheus4
1 other thing that would be great, is avenue and ground highway cloverleaf interchanges.

Like this:

Moving on to more complex stuff:

And more complex stuff:

And still more complex stuff. LOL! Incidentally, I live roughly 1000 feet west of this one.

quote>

(Thalassicus)

You can accomplish that by transitioning the avenue to a highway right before entering the interchange It doesn't look quite as good, but it is fully functional and allows for easy highway expansion later on.

quote>

Yeah, I know that, but is it possible, anyway?

[BrandonTheGreat 0]

the7trumpets, would it be possible to make a road, avenue, etc. over C/D highway mod or something like that? It would work nicer if a mod was possible to do a DIRECT connection from express to local and vice versa without having to convert to avenues. That was why I asked in the first place! I didn't expect to get an answer to look at the multi-highway tutorial. I want to know, is a highway to highway onramp possible without converting to one ways and is it possible for a road, avenue, over C/D highway.

[ardecila 124]

sargeantcm: I did an earth embankment on the avenue Y, but I removed it for polycount reasons. However, since I started skinning, I realized that the SC4 engine doesn't shade polygons, so you wouldn't notice as much if the embankment polygons were reduced. If you want embankments, I'd take them any day over the support piers.

Everyone: I have modelled a puzzle piece that would satisfy request #s 6 and 26. I figured out how to use the XForm modifier to work it out. It will require some terraforming to make it look as intended, however. If you want to know what it will look like, picture my Urban Overpass with the puzzlepiece handrails. They will be available for all asphalt-colored networks.

the7trumpets: Regarding the 45-degree rotation for diagonals: Not possible. ALL networks are thinned in the diagonal direction, for the simple reason that for two-tile networks, the diagonal of one tile is less than the width of two tiles, and for one-tile networks, the half-diagonal of one tile is less than the width of one tile.

Two more notes: #21 has been done by TGC (look back in the thread) and #24 is not possible under the NAM (puzzlepieces can't have retaining walls).

[Sabretooth78 808]

Cool I'll definitely try the embankments.  I figure what I can do it pretty much a straight 2:1 slope down from the edge of the roadway, theoretically it shouldn't be too polygon-intensive.  It can't be much worse than the support piers are anyways.

 

The diagonal networks are smaller, probably 1.4 (diagonal width of a tile) tiles wide versus 2 for the orthagonal.  Can't get much done tonight but I'll see if I can't whip something really rough up by tomorrow night.  I should spend a little time studying that interchange tutorial as well, I read it once but not very intensively.

 

Those avenue highway textures are pretty interesting.  Wonder why they were abandoned...

 

-Chris

 

[the7trumpets 10]

Date: 9/15/2004 8:22:23 PM
Author: BrandonTheGreat
the7trumpets, would it be possible to make a road, avenue, etc. over C/D highway mod or something like that? It would work nicer if a mod was possible to do a DIRECT connection from express to local and vice versa without having to convert to avenues. That was why I asked in the first place! I didn't expect to get an answer to look at the multi-highway tutorial. I want to know, is a highway to highway onramp possible without converting to one ways and is it possible for a road, avenue, over C/D highway.

quote>

Sorry if I wasn't clear before.

Yes, it would be possible to make the interchanges. The difficult (and possibly impossible) thing is actually drawing the C/D highways without the use of the multi-highways technique.

The connection between express and local, and vice versa, would essentially be a ploppable interchange, accessable from the interchange menu. So yes, the connections between express and local, as well as onramps and overpasses/underpasses from other networks would be possible, they would just require someone modeling them as interchanges, and going through all the steps in the interchange tutorial.

[Ryanr 15]

*delete this please*

[Ryanr 15]

*delete this please*