NAM Traffic Simulators

[jplumbley 5]

The NEW Traffic Plugins

Simulator "A" written by JPlumbley
Simulator "B" written by Mott

Please remember only ONE of the NAM_Traffic_Plugin files must be installed at one time.  These are intended to replace the old NAM_Traffic_Plugins, the ones that are:

2x, 5x and 10x Capacity, 2x, 5x, 10x Commute Time and 2x, 5x 10x Speed.  The is a cleanitol that will automatically remove the original files.

What are NAM_Traffic_Plugins intended to do?

Well, there are two Central "cores" named A and B for lack of a better identifier.  These two Central Cores have both been mathematically designed to re-balance the structure of the Simulators.  With new information discovered by Mott from investigations he preformed the previous Simulators have been found to be harmful to the game in some cases.  Not only were the old NAM Simulators found to be flawed, but also the Vanilla Simulator from MAXIS was found to have flaws in it as well.  These two Cores have been designed to limit and/or remove these flaws, as well as expand on ideas MAXIS had that simply were not implemented or not implemented properly.

What is the Difference between Simulator "A" and Simulator "B"?

These Simulators have been designed to do two different things.  

Simulator "A" has been designed by JPlumbley to extend the original travel distances set by the MAXIS Simulators.  For example in the original game the MAXIS Simulator allows the Sims to walk up to 7 tiles, but with Simulator "A" the Sims will walk upto 43 tiles to get to work.  This change in travel distance is due to the calculations used to allow Car Traffic to travel one full distance of a large city tile (512 tiles) on Avenues. 

Simulator "B" has been designed by Mott to work with the original travel distances set by the MAXIS Simulator.  For example in the original game the MAXIS Simulator allows the Sims to walk up to 7 tiles, therefore in Simulator "B" the Sims will walk upto 7 tiles.  Simulator "B" has also been re-calculated to be more balanced and provide better pathfinding overall.

Other modifications to both Simulators include changes to the follow properties with minor variation:

Congestion to Accident Probability - Revamped the probability curve.
Congestion vs. Speed - Made use of this, not used to full potential by MAXIS.  Sims will now look for better routes if the network is over congested.
Trip Length to Minutes Display Multiplier - Used in calculations for time displays on Commute Time Graph.

What is the Park and Ride Mod?

The ?Park and Ride Mod? is a mod that will make it so that cars cannot reach their destination.  So, what this forces you to do is place parking lots near transit systems, or in you CBD so that Sims can park and then walk or ride the rest of the way to work.  These are the Simulators named with a P after the Simulator Type like so:

NAM_Traffic_Plugin_AP_Easy

What do the different difficulties mean?

The only difference between the different difficulties is the Capacity of the networks.  All have been altered from the original MAXIS Simulator.  Road, OneWay Road and Avenue have all been equalized in speed and capacity in preparation for the Network Widening Mod.  The following is a list of the Network Capacities for each difficulty:

Easy Difficulty

Street: 2250
Road / OWR / Avenue: 5600
Highway / El-Highway: 10800
Ru

[Haljackey 17,302]

Wow, this sounds like an excellent addition to the NAM!

I have just one question for you JPlumbley.

-Which mod, A or B, easy, medium, or hard, will most accurately represent the normal traffic plugin in the current NAM? If city size is an playing factor in this, most of my cities range between 1-3 million sims.

Thanks a lot for all the effort put into this as well! I hope it helps my traffic problem!

Best,

-Haljackey

[mkaustin 1]

Is this for an upcoming release or are these already available somewhere?

[Haljackey 17,302]

mkaustin:

Topic Summary: An explaination of an upcoming NAM Addition to make your Traffic Simulation better.

Does that answer your question? Make sure you read the sub-heading!

[jplumbley 5]

Originally posted by: haljackey Wow, this sounds like an excellent addition to the NAM!

I have just one question for you JPlumbley.

-Which mod, A or B, easy, medium, or hard, will most accurately represent the normal traffic plugin in the current NAM? If city size is an playing factor in this, most of my cities range between 1-3 million sims.

Thanks a lot for all the effort put into this as well! I hope it helps my traffic problem!

Best,

-Haljackeyquote>

 

It depends... on which one you a are currently running.  Effectively, Simulator "B" is equal to the NAM_Traffic_Plugin_Standard, but the Capacities are all different.  Simulator "A" is a properly balanced version which is approximately equal to 6x Max Commute.

All of the previous NAM_Traffic_Plugins are going to be superseeded by this release.

________________________________________-

@mkaustin  I have not released them yet... this is a thread for you to read before you download the file.  It is very important you understand what you are installing before you install it.  It will be out by the weekend.

[mkaustin 1]

Originally posted by: haljackey mkaustin:

Topic Summary: An explaination of an upcoming NAM Addition to make your Traffic Simulation better.

Does that answer your question? Make sure you read the sub-heading!quote>

I don't see that anywhere on my page and I read everything...but yes.  You have answered my question nonetheless.  Thank you.

EDIT - ooooohhhh.  Just saw it.  To me eye, that appeared to be part of the "ads by google" so my brain skipped it. 

[david1314 44]

Originally posted by: jplumbley

For example in the original game the MAXIS Simulator allows the Sims to walk up to 7 tiles, but with Simulator "A" the Sims will walk upto 43 tiles to get to work.  This change in travel distance is due to the calculations used to allow Car Traffic to travel one full distance of a large city tile (512 tiles) on Avenues.quote>

Where did this myth about a 6/7 tile max pedestrian commute w/ maxis standard setup come from?  I've heard a couple people on the forums allude to it multiple times over the years.  But, it's simply not the case.

I have standard maxis traffic setup (for everything, capacity, speed, and commute time), and while its definitely relative to average commute time, there are no limits to the distance individuals can commute in any mode except a) a better place of work to commute to; or b)alternative routes to the same place of work.  The fact pedestrians tend to follow roads and streets tends to make car faster, but with heavy congestion and high average commute time, a long pedestrian commute becomes the optimal mode of transportation.

Here's an in game pic, it has an intermediary bus commute, but I don't have one with a pedestrian only commute handy (I'm certain they exist, I've checked for this exact reason previously).  I the the total pedestrian stage of the commute is about 16 tiles if you count each diagonal as 1/2 a tile.  The queried building is still showing stats:

[jplumbley 5]

Originally posted by: david1314

Originally posted by: jplumbley

For example in the original game the MAXIS Simulator allows the Sims to walk up to 7 tiles, but with Simulator "A" the Sims will walk upto 43 tiles to get to work.  This change in travel distance is due to the calculations used to allow Car Traffic to travel one full distance of a large city tile (512 tiles) on Avenues.quote>

Where did this myth about a 6/7 tile max pedestrian commute w/ maxis standard setup come from?  I've heard a couple people on the forums allude to it multiple times over the years.  But, it's simply not the case.

I have standard maxis traffic setup (for everything, capacity, speed, and commute time), and while its definitely relative to average commute time, there are no limits to the distance individuals can commute in any mode except a) a better place of work to commute to; or b)alternative routes to the same place of work.  The fact pedestrians tend to follow roads and streets tends to make car faster, but with heavy congestion and high average commute time, a long pedestrian commute becomes the optimal mode of transportation.

Here's an in game pic, it has an intermediary bus commute, but I don't have one with a pedestrian only commute handy (I'm certain they exist, I've checked for this exact reason previously).  I the the total pedestrian stage of the commute is about 16 tiles if you count each diagonal as 1/2 a tile.  The queried building is still showing stats:

 

quote>

 

Apparently math is not an exact science. 

I assure you that 7 tile walking distance is right.  Now, have you ever wondered why even though a job is across a full Large City tile but yet your sims will stil goto work someitmes?  Well, this is obviously because MAXIS did allow for the "Maximum Commute" to be exceeded but it is a general rule that 7 tiles walking is the maximum the sim can walk.  Here is another tidbit of information I did not give you, your bus trip does not count... ...  

Heres why:

Some Sims have a preference to take mass transit, so this means before anything else they will search for the closest bus station or train station etc.  IF the bus station has a smaller hop count than the closest job then the Sim will walk to the bus station.  WHEN the Sim reaches any Transit-Enabled Lot his Trip Time resets.  There are technical reasons for this but I might aswell link you to a thread to describe all those small things [linkie].  So, when the Time Trip resets, the Sim is still looking for a job but he now has a new timeframe to find it.  He looks for a job and the closest bus station to it.  He goes to that bus stop and resets his time again, then walks to work.

We really did investigate this... I promise we have made something that is better than you have now.

[politicman 1]

I have a question : Why my RHW is always jam but there is only one or two cars ?? Help me Please !!

[jplumbley 5]

@politicman hold your query tool over the RHW and it will tell you how many cars are actually driving on the RHW.

[Prens 168]

When you download the windows version from SC4D it's called "NetworkAddonMod_Traffic_Simulators_Mac" Has the wrong file been uploaded or just the name is wrong??

[jplumbley 5]

Apparently when I hit the wrong file and then tried to edit it... It didnt like the update.

Anyways, the only difference between Windows and MAC really is that the MAC is in a zip format instead of an installer format.  IF you want an installer download the windows version from ST for now, and I will contact the SC4D LEX Staff and have it fixed at SC4D, but unfortunately it wont happen until tomorrow when they are around again.

[Death54 3]

1 small question: will this make all one way roads, roads and avenuses work exactly the same as each other?

[jplumbley 5]

Yes in preparation for the Wider Roads, in developement for future releases.

[david1314 44]

Originally posted by: jplumbleyHere is another tidbit of information I did not give you, your bus trip does not count... ...  quote>

*sigh* I put in there the pic was convenient and not representative of the actual ped-only commutes that I know to exist.

I read through the other thread, and it certainly is consistent with many of my own observations in 5 years of playing the game.  I like the premise of the mod, but see no reason for it mainly because successive versions of it have come out while I'm mid-way through a region and the maxis commute faults can be worked around (in my experience). 

I'm wondering where this "cumulative maximum commute" comes from though.  If indeed it is a hard game variable, it is subject to modification relative to average commute time. (i.e. by raising the average commute time of a city, what were once undesirable locations due to commute time become desirable while retaining the exact same commute...)  If it's a constant derived by working backwards into the de facto limit, it was not researched to the extreme.

I know commutes across approximately 3 cities (from far edge of one large city, across a second, and into a third large city and to the far side of it).  I'm certain of this commute because I can calculate exactly how many sims are from city 1, and city 2 as they enter city 3.  Unfortunately, in city 3, because sims enter from both city 2 and 1 (via 2), I cannot track their origins.

The no. of total sims travelling from 2 to 3 (including from 1 via 2) and continue to the far side is greater than the no. of sims from city 2 only to 3 (not including 1 via 2).  So I'm certain some of city 1's sims make it to the far side of three.  While some sims from city 2 do travel on to city 4 (via 3), the number does not exceed that of 2 only to 3, so I'm not certain sims from city 1 travel to city 4, but nor am I certain they don't.

Based on the fact I know each inter-city commute is not subject to some all-encompassing regional calculation, I would assume it is aggregated from one city to the next....perhaps someone could clarify this?

That's one case where I think the premise of the theory to be flawed.  The other is in pedestrian commutes.  Perhaps you are right they are the exception to the rule when they exceed 11 tiles (I'm certain I have seen my own cities with 12+ tile ped-only commutes)...they were far from regular in the city, but at the same time, the were not difficult to find.  If they are the exception, the rule is very loosely enforced, and the exceptions are not rarities by any means (and could probably be expected to reflect real city percentages of ped-only commutes).

I'm not denying they only occur in adverse commute situations, but if expediency of auto-traffic through a city is not a priority, the maxis commutes can reasonably simulate longer commutes.

But anyway, back to my original point, where's this "cumulative maximum commute" from?

[jplumbley 5]

But anyway, back to my original point, where's this "cumulative maximum commute" from?quote>

 

It is a mathematical calculation of how the Simulator calculates the Trip.... Sim IF there is not a possibility of reaching work in a shorter path WILL go beyond the limit but this is very few and far between.  The Mathematical calculations are in the thread I have linked for you and I am not about to write a lengthy post on the calculations because it is a long answer and I have linked you to the direct investigation where this work came from.

Mott the person I worked with on this has a Major in mathematics, so I would trust his calculations to be true, mine are not too shabby either and I have come up with the same results.  The values from the calculations comes directly from the Traffic Simulator that MAXIS created.

YES, Sim *can* walk further, but the *maximum* they are allowed to walk by the mathematical equations set in the game is 7 tiles.  WHEN you reach a TE Lot or a City Boarder reset your time clock and start over again, this is how the game handles it.  You will get "long commute" times for every single Sim that goes over this *maximium*.

A test I have for you, that I have physically seen... Sims will walk 7 tiles to a train or elrail or monorail station.  Create an isolated res community at one end where Sim must walk to the station, then build your jobs at the end of the track further down the line.  Sims within 7 walking tiles will goto the station, other will grow and may walk for a few months but will end up abandoning due to long commutes.

The reason why Sims *can* exceed the limit is because some people like to make downtown areas with subrubs... Due to this layout, it will force the Sims in the outer most area of the suburbs to be too far from the downtown area with no jobs to get too.  For the game to work MAXIS has allowed for the Max Commute to be exceeded, BUT if you make a job closer the Sim will take the shorter path.  Its all in the logistics.  The Sims that exceed the limit are the Sims that are either driving or are within 7 tiles of the original station, it is when they get off the bus at the other end where they will exceed the limit (as shown in your bus station example).

Now, one way to tell when your city is suffering due to the fact your Sims Maximum Commute is just not enough, you get Abandonment in groups.  Or, you have had a tower grow, then abandon, to be repopulated again and then abandon in a vicious cycle.

If you would like to challenge me, please read the work Mott and I did, then do the calculations and come up with your own interpretations, I will be willing to debate with you then.  But I do not appreciate your comment about our theory being flawed when you havent done the research to proove that we are wrong.  You have taken special cases in which both are not technically the way it works, although its the way you observe it because you have not researched it. 

[jplumbley 5]

Here are two more threads of particular interest that you will want to read in your research and to proove that this has had an impact on the way your city works:

This is a thread about Transit Enabled Lots and how they should be modded and how they physically work:

https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=2763.0

This is the thread where the Simulator "A" Easy was tested:

https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=3508.0

I have spent 2 and a half months in this Simulator and if I have done something wrong, please find it and tell me what I did wrong.  I dont want you to just being stating "I think the premise of your research is wrong."  Proove it, because there is noone else out there who can, and I dont doubt that we could be interpretting our findings wrong, but I do know that these Simulators have prooved to be better than those in the past.  And it has nothing to do with just the simple fact that the *general rule* is that Sims will walk 7 tiles to get to a bus stop.

[sim_city-freak 0]

yo what if u used super custom special do i have to down load it.

which is faster and longer in terms of commute speed and distance?

[jplumbley 5]

Originally posted by: sim_city-freak yo what if u used super custom special do i have to down load it.

which is faster and longer in terms of commute speed and distance?quote>

 

No, you dont *have* to download it.  I has been found that there are problems with it and it will cause incorrect pathfinding.  Any Traffic Simulator that changes speed WILL cause incorrect pathfinding, unless it has been properly calculated, which the original NAM Traffic Plugins were not.

I would suggest you install this new Traffic Simulator because it is better.

The Radical Simulator will not be in the next version of NAM and all of the original NAM Traffic Simulators will be removed from the main download.  This is because of the flaws found in them that can be harmful to your simulation as a whole and can cause some bad effects beyond just your Traffic.  This includes things like Abandonment and Demand.

[kerrodhall 0]

Wow guys this is awsome. To think that Maxis left so much stuff unfinished. I wonder if Will Wright ever imagined the game could progress to levels brought about by the NAM and others like it...?

Keep up the great work guys!

[LarksTonguesInAspic 28]

You guys (the whole NAM team) continue to astound and amaze.

Thank you so much for your never-ending efforts to elevate this game beyond anyone's imagination!

[chrisnhl50 2]

EDIT DO i Have to unistall anything?

Sorry for the rash ignorant question.  Great job on this! The park and ride is way to advanced for my city right now!

[david1314 44]

Originally posted by: jplumbley

But anyway, back to my original point, where's this "cumulative maximum commute" from?quote>

If you would like to challenge me, please read the work Mott and I did, then do the calculations and come up with your own interpretations, I will be willing to debate with you then.  But I do not appreciate your comment about our theory being flawed when you havent done the research to proove that we are wrong.  You have taken special cases in which both are not technically the way it works, although its the way you observe it because you have not researched it. quote>

It was described as an absolute maximum.  It isn't.

It's not that I'm debating...I'm stating fact.  And also, I don't think the theory is flawed...I agree whole-heartedly, I know it's quite a laborious task to work around the maxis imposed commute limits.  But I also know it can be done.

All of these are pedestrian only, and use only transit networks and not TE lots.  Depending on how you count diagonals, the lengths vary, but one is certainly at least 10 tiles (not counting the second diag tile):

^ Research!

Edit: Also, regarding few and far between, note that three adjacent homes all have a ped commute over 7.

Edit again: I'm certain this can be regularly exceeded based on the adverse commute condition (which all of those exist in;  you can see the one-ways limit close traffic).  These are consistent, established commutes.  But they are very localized within each city.  My city has NO abandonment, and a tiny percentage of dilapidation.  The average commute time is around 90.

So, we come back to my original question.  Where does this cumulative maximum commute come from?  (Is it an EA defined variable?  Was it figured out by others from game code and then named without verification from EA?  Was it figured out by observation through game play?)

I don't think it to be an actual maximum, but more like an average maximum...Or a deviation by which 9X% fall within...But it does not appear to be a firm maximum as it can be exceeded without concequence.

Edit (once more for the second post):

Originally posted by: jplumbley I have spent 2 and a half months in this Simulator and if I have done something wrong, please find it and tell me what I did wrong.  I dont want you to just being stating "I think the premise of your research is wrong."  Proove it, because there is noone else out there who can, and I dont doubt that we could be interpretting our findings wrong, but I do know that these Simulators have prooved to be better than those in the past.  And it has nothing to do with just the simple fact that the *general rule* is that Sims will walk 7 tiles to get to a bus stop.quote>

Don't put word in my mouth!

I never said the general premise was wrong...I never said ANYTHING in general was wrong.  I very specifically identified the cumulative maximum commute as perhaps having an error in how it was considered as an actual maximum as opposed to a statistical approximate maximum.

It tends to suggest the math should be based upon a bell-curve rather than a plateau (or curved plateau) that would exist with an absolu

[Palpatine001 57]

Well after doing some tests for this then thrashing the real thing in Solaria til it was black and blue I can say the following

YOU COST ME $1m in fixing my crap inner highway system in Solaria

But then again it was long over due and now finally the arteries of Solaria are free flowing and she can breath easy again

4 thumbs up to Jplumbley here

Pics will be in my CJ, when I get round to it in the next well god knows when

[Neddiggis 1]

Originally posted by: david1314It was described as an absolute maximum.  It isn't.

quote>

 

Where, can you quote Jason saying the please cos I haven't found that.  He has said that it's not absolute... and that it can be exceeded. 

[xxdita 1,097]

While testing tonight, using only MAXIS capacities and pathfinding, I have found that Sims WILL travel the necessary distance to work. As long as there are jobs between any neighbor connection, no MT near a connection, and subways/MT aren't neighbor connected, Sims seem to look for work in their home city, as long as the distance is less than that to the neighbor connection. Even if it means a 240 avg commute time in a small tile.

Though I personally believe that the new NAM traffic simulators are better than Maxis, and will continue using them for gameplay, I think that further testing is required, before future NAM traffic sims are released. Maybe it's been so long since we've actually played with the Maxis traffic sim left alone that we forget what it is capable of?

[His Divine Hand 244]

Originally posted by: Neddiggis

Originally posted by: david1314It was described as an absolute maximum.  It isn't.

quote>

 

Where, can you quote Jason saying the please cos I haven't found that.  He has said that it's not absolute... and that it can be exceeded. quote>

Originally posted by: jplumbley For example in the original game the MAXIS Simulator allows the Sims to walk up to 7 tiles, but with Simulator "A" the Sims will walk upto 43 tiles to get to work.quote>

Originally posted by: jplumbley I assure you that 7 tile walking distance is right.. . . . Well, this is obviously because MAXIS did allow for the "Maximum Commute" to be exceeded but it is a general rule that 7 tiles walking is the maximum the sim can walk.quote>

Originally posted by: jplumbley YES, Sim *can* walk further, but the *maximum* they are allowed to walk by the mathematical equations set in the game is 7 tiles.quote>

In short, it is an absolute maximum that can be broken.

[SC4BOY 20]

Just an indirect observation, since you 've mentioned it several times, but there are no "diagonals" in SC4.. its an optical illusion.. if you follow a "stairstep" along the diagonal you will have the actual distance seen by the sims in traveling.

[GMT 389]

maxis set the maximum walking distance to 7 tiles?

means 7x16=112meters... 102 yards?

what sophisticated, spoiled brats sims are... I knew they are a little ... unique in their demands, but this is ... thanks for the new plugin, this makes things a little more believable.

[david1314 44]

Originally posted by: Neddiggis

Originally posted by: david1314It was described as an absolute maximum.  It isn't.

quote>

 

Where, can you quote Jason saying the please cos I haven't found that.  He has said that it's not absolute... and that it can be exceeded. quote>

the term 'maximum' is absolute unless qualified.  A 'mathematical maximum' is a simply mathematical calculation and is absolute on the above....math is logical, exceeding a maximum is not logical, ergo a mathematical maximum is absolute.

We can argue semantics all we want, but a maximum that can be exceeded is not a maximum...per se

And finally, I never said jplumbley said it was absolute (though it does appear that was his intention), but every reference I've seen to it on the forums by others have assumed its absolute.