Japan to commence the killing of 1000 whales including the protected humpback

[belfastuniguy 18]

I couldn't believe this when it was reported on the BBC.

Japanese hunters are to sail into the waters around Antarctica and begin the murder of over 1000 Whales, (50 humpback, 935 minke whales and up to 50 fin whales) all protected species that was hunted to near extinction in the 60's.

Supposedly in the name of  "research", why they need to kill 1000 is beyond my understanding and to be honest, there is nothing scientific about it, it's purely to feed the sick demand in Japan for whale meat and whale based products, which IMO the Japanese should be ashamed of as a people and a nation.

I disagree with Whaling in the strongest possible terms and has no place in the 21st century, it's a total disgrace and should not be allowed to happen. The Japanese should stop these sick and murderous hunts as soon as possible as should all nations.

I am aware that other nations also engage in this activity, however only Japan has announced it's intention to kill these whales. Ships have already left Japanese ports to begin the kill.

To express my true disgust would most likely get me banned, I'm very angry about this news.

How do others feel

BBC NEWS LINK

[hamsterTK 93]

murder...or food?

honestly, I hate to sound mean, but we eat cows, which are kind of land-whales when you think about it

as long as we don't drive them to extinction again, I just don't feel that passionate about this. What makes killing some animals murder, when killing most others is normal?

[Godzillaman 21]

Hmm...You read it wrong. It said 1000 whales and 50 of them are to be humpbacks. If this drives down the population...then...

This post was edited because it seemed too...aggressive...

[belfastuniguy 18]

Cows are somewhat different, they are bred to be eaten and used as leather and for milk etc etc etc.

Whales are not, I see your point, but I also disagree. There is a huge difference. between animals that we bred to be eaten, I have no problems with eating that kind of meat, I do find is disgusting that people somehow see it as their traditional right to go and hunt an animal that should be left alone, there is no need to hunt them. Unlike cattle, whales cannot be managed and bred, so once they are gone, they are gone forever. Cattle we can continue to bred.

The Japanese also use the excuse that the hunt is needed for science, which for a highly developed nation such as Japan is simply ludicrous and morally reprehensible. If they said they were hunting for food they would be banned from doing so, they instead use the guise of science, as a great believer I am also offended by that pathetic excuse.

[Micah 16]

Yeah, I think using murder is an agressive word to use. As hamsterTK said, if this drives them into extinction again, then I wouldn't support the capturing of 1000 for research. However, the 60s era is long gone and I would imagine there would be much more than 1000 humpback whales due to protective laws.

So is the killing of chickens murder? Is the eating of fruits murder? I think we need someone to define murder before we go hysteric here.

[Zelgadis 638]

It's their culture. And as long as they are not over-hunting them, it's none of our business why they hunt them. The Japanese have been whaling for thousands of years. And it's not our place to tell them they can't. Japan has agreed to conform to standards to ensure that the whales are not driven to the brink of extinction again. Good enough for me.

ISF

[simsider 4]

Webster's deffinition of Murder:unlawfull killing of a person.

Nothing about killing whales. However i do belove that killing whales is wrong and it should be stopped.

[Palpatine001 57]

Yes I am aware the Whaling Fleet is off again to the Southern Ocean, and again the Ministry of Conservation in NZ will jump and down at it.

Look Japan are not going to stop "scientific" whaling unless you really want to put a USA Carrier Fleet down there

Best way is to "manage" the culling through dare I say "commercial" operations, they are more likely to comply with that and hey, market forces could drive the whaling fleet out of commission if demand is so low and save the whales in the long run instead of govt intervention.

Btw, to all our female members, might want to check that lipstick out more carefully, last I checked, whale blubber is used in some lipstick lines...

[DanWalker8 3]

I think we do manage whale populations by not killing them. I don't see how hunting them for food is any different than hunting any other sea creature (e.g. cod, mackrel.) What makes killing a whale any more "sick and murderous" than killing an insect?

[joexcooldude 1]

Originally posted by: DanWalker8 I think we do manage whale populations by not killing them. I don't see how hunting them for food is any different than hunting any other sea creature (e.g. cod, mackrel.) What makes killing a whale any more "sick and murderous" than killing an insect?quote>

Insects reproduce incredibly faster, and can survive far more than a whale can. All of this while they have a lesser role in the food chain.

Seriously, I'm going to agree with the original poster and side against killing whales. Humans have killed off enough of the world's animal population; can we just leave whales alone. And no, this is not just the business of the Japanese, as this effects the balance of animals across the world and thus the food supply. Why can't we have the whalers come over to the states and kill deer: at least they are overpopulated and getting hit by our SUVs.

Although that last statement is in slight jest, it is appalling that people go up in arms when people discuss killing deer but ignore killing whales. Not that I am against hunting, but there are limits to what is morally reasonable. Hunting a near endangered mammal is against those morals.

[Palpatine001 57]

Insects reproduce incredibly faster, and can survive far more than a whale can. All of this while they have a lesser role in the food chain. quote>

Lesser in the food chain to what extent? Insects as all animals are just as criticle to our survival as the whales are.

I think people get upset when a so call very intellegent graceful animal is threatened.

Now whaling as been going on for thousands of years with out great affect to the environment, it was over zealous commercial whaling that brought them to near extinction and it might be commercial whaling that could save their own backsides if the Japanese are more willing to cooperate with the West.

I still stand by my statement above on "managing" culling that would present no harm to the physical geography.

At the moment this attitude we have with Japs is most likely doing more harm than good.

At least with limited commercial whaling, better conservation methods might be obtained, if demand and profitablity is so low, they wont bother mass whaling, but if it is so high, then we have to look at ourselves and see if we are causing the demand

Again girls, you industrial made lipstick is not extactly helping the whales here

[BurroDiablo 222]

What they gonna research? How good it tastes? I think they need to mark out a yearly amount Japan can kill, for food or 'research', just enough so the Whale population can still grow, but not enough to bring growth to a halt. They should bring about huge fines if they break that mark.

And this sympathy for Japan isn't going to get us anywhere either... yes, thier culture spans far and wide accross the globe, but theres no need to turn a blind eye when their obviously doing something wrong.

[Sim1013 1]

I, for one, agree 110% with belfastuniguy. There is no need for such barbaric hunts in this day and age, and it's not like they need whale products to survive. Whales are known to be very intelligent creatures which have communicated with humans in their own way many times.  To imagine that there isn't some horrific moment of fear or realization on the part of these animals at the time of slaughter would be shortsighted at least and reprehensible at best.  

As a vegetarian, I don't think the killing of any living thing is morally correct. I don't condemn those who eat meat, I just disagree with their philosophies, and despair a bit at our callous disregard for the sentient beings with which we share this planet.

I think Plutarch stated it best when he said:

"But for the sake of a little mouthful of flesh, we deprive a soul of the sun and light and that proportion of life and time that it had been sent into the world to enjoy."

[andhow 0]

This gets a lot of coverage here in Australia.  I'd like to add a few comments if I may, starting my stating my position that it is indeed a barbaric practice in today's world. The facts below I have gleaned from many sources and I belive them all to be true...

1.  Cows, sheep etc are domesticated animals.  In developed countries they are usually slaughtered quickly and as humanely as possible (Halal meat excepted).  I do still understand the vegetarian position however and I know there are a lot of bad abattoirs.

2. Whales are wild creatures, no different to lions, elephants and suchlike, that, like many wild creatures, are struggling to survive against the threats that man creates...pollution, subsonic noise from  subs and boats, shrinking habitat...hunting; each aniamal faces different pressures.  Most whales are only just recovering from endangered population levels

3. The Japnese research involves  collection of dna, the whales sex, breeding habits/ability and other things.  This was confirmed in an interview with a Japanese representative in a documentary here.  However, Australian researchers have discovered methods of collecting most of this information by non-lethal means

4.  In Japan, whale is not eaten by most people.  It is a luxury or special occasion item, thus hardly essential to every day survival as part of a healthy diet

5.  Whales are not killed in a controlled manner like domesticated animals.  They have full nervous systems like humans and apes.  They feel pain and trauma.  In whale hunts it often takes a long time for the whale to die a slow, agonising death.

6.  Animal culls generally take place where there is a threat to other species, usually humans I admit.  Whale populations do not pose any threats as far as I am aware and so a cull is not justified.  They don't even eat fish stocks, just plankton!

I suggest if anyone feels strongly they write to their Japanese embassy or simply encourage a boycott of Japanese restaurants!  People need to speak up.  I have a lot of respect for Japanese people and refuse to generalise or stereotype - every country has embarrassing issues to face - but this issue really lets down a brave, creative nation.  Pull your socks up, Japan and move into the 21st century in more ways than just consumer electronics!

[krbe 193]

Originally posted by: DanWalker8 I think we do manage whale populations by not killing them. I don't see how hunting them for food is any different than hunting any other sea creature (e.g. cod, mackrel.) What makes killing a whale any more "sick and murderous" than killing an insect?quote>

In the sixties and seventies, fish was nearly extinct from Norwegian waters, but nobody called it "sick and murderous" to continue fishing (stupid, as we would lose a vital source of income and food, but not "murderous"). But it's more sick to kill whales because you can see them quite easily. A lot of species die each day, and none of us know if any of them are important, or could be. Why not oppose cutting down the rainforests instead -- these contain a lot more "important" species to us in terms of medicine etc.

[Moshi 61]

Speaking as a Japanese who has had the (very) occasional whale, I don't think whaling is more cruel than killing any other mammal, and that killing 1000 whales isn't going to upset the whale population (at least in the long run).

More facts (forgive me if I'm wrong, haven't googled them) about Japanese whaling and whaling in general:

The oldest record of whaling in Japan is from the oldest surviving book in Japan.

Commodore Perry of the USA,  who opened Japan to the world in 1854, did that because a  whaling base was needed.

Around that time period, western nations without whaling traditions started hunting many whales for the sole purpose of obtaining easy blubber. As a result, the whale population went into a decline.

After Japan lost WWII, Gen. MacArthur formed the school lunch system during Japan's occupation and recommended whale meat for its nutritional content.

In the eighties, when beef was abundant and whale meat was considered unfavorable by the public (due to the way schools prepared it!), the government decided to ban whaling, because of protests and international pressure. Of course, the whaling industry fell apart and many people lost their jobs.

It is widely accepted in Japan that whaling for whale meat due to "scientific reasons" is because it's the only way to whale while the ban is in effect.

Whale meat tastes a lot like beef if prepared properly.

[coolotter88 2]

when they all die of mercury poisoning...

[Ded 30]

Personally i feel to farm any animal for ones own food isn't morally correct. If we had to hunt to survive then we would hunt. Rather we can cultivate our food, which makes us largely unique among species. Also unique to us, is the ability to protect animals. Hence - I'm a vegetarian and animal rights activist. Issues like these are about making the right choice to benefit the human species as a whole - if we all choose to protest the slaughter of innocent animals, and look at alternative options - we can change issues like this for good.

As for the whaling, it disgusts me that these people are culling the whales when they're endangered. We have no true knowledge of the number of whales left in this world, as they're so elusive. To further destroy them and invade thier habitat - Its not on.

[aking88 7]

I think this is terrible, im not a vegetarian but i believe we have a responsibility to cause as little pain and damage as possible to the rest of the nature. Like others have mentioned, i see no need to hunt wales and they are very complex creatures that also die complex deaths in the hunts (so do fish by the way but not to the same extent). I can imagine why it had a function previously in Japanese society, but not in modern Japan.

Im not in a mood to "judge" Japan right now on this issue, but they need to be responsible, wale populations are relatively scarce naturally, and they should be allowed to live and develope for their own sake. I think they should ask themselves in Japan if they really need this, i dont think they do.

Ded:

I understand where you are coming from, but at the same time we are no more than humans ourselves, i dont think that people want to cause harm. Its just that the alternatives are not developed enough. I believe we humans need to be balanced when it comes to living with whats around us, we need to take personal responsibilities so as to minimize the harm in the us of nature, and also take actions to leave notable part of the nature free, such as setting up private unfragmented wildlifesanctuaries which can be financed by people who care about the issues and eco-tourism.

Furthermore i think genetical manipulation of farmed animals is sickening and i think it should be outlawed, if not by national governments then by informed municipalities and its citizens.

But as i say, i think it needs to truly be private efforts by people in a free society to be lasting and true. Availability of information on the issue is important for that as well as open dialogue. If you look historically, free societies (relatively that is) has been better in the handling of nature, look at totalitarian nations (and im refering to governmental enforcements) and they usually end up in much worse shape. When people are free and and prosperous, they also have more energy and time to take responsibility and develope solutions for the things around them.

I do not think that most of humans would be able or willing to go vegetarian. And that is not beocuse they are lesser people but becouse of how they view the world and their place in it etc.

[Ded 30]

To the people comparing hunting whales to killing cows - I ask you to think about why people aren't hunting Pandas in China, Kiwi in New Zealand, or California Condor's in the United States of America. Then talk to me about the comparison of something rare, beautiful, and intelligent like a whale, and a common, domesticated animal such as a cow or sheep. There is no comparison.

[Ded 30]

Originally posted by: aking88

Ded:

I understand where you are coming from, but at the same time we are no more than humans ourselves, i dont think that people want to cause harm. Its just that the alternatives are not developed enough. I believe we humans need to be balanced when it comes to living with whats around us, we need to take personal responsibilities so as to minimize the harm in the us of nature, and also take actions to leave notable part of the nature free, such as setting up private unfragmented wildlifesanctuaries which can be financed by people who care about the issues and eco-tourism.

Furthermore i think genetical manipulation of farmed animals is sickening and i think it should be outlawed, if not by national governments then by informed municipalities and its citizens.

But as i say, i think it needs to truly be private efforts by people in a free society to be lasting and true. Availability of information on the issue is important for that as well as open dialogue.

I do not think that most of humans would be able or willing to go vegetarian. And that is not beocuse they are lesser people but becouse of how they view the world and their place in it etc.quote>

My apologies for the double post, but i felt a reply was necessary.

Our perceptions of the World are maliable. That is, they can be freely changed as we grow and develop. To make the choice not to eat meat means that you've percieved an issue and that you've chosen to become informed and do what you believe is best. It fascinates me so much, how people are shocked at the unsustainable nature of farming animals for consumption. Economically, by eating fresh fruits and vegetables that are in season, you can save hundreds of dollars every year - yet people aren't informed. Though to be fair, they have themselves to blame for choosing not to be informed, as much as people with corporate responsibility are to blame for choosing not to inform them.

As for the genetic modification issue - If we apply that rule to fruits and vegetables -  we can develop frost and draught resistant foods, which allow more to be fed, and are relatively cost-effective to grow and produce. We have so many tools at our disposal, yet we don't use them. There's some food for thought...

[aking88 7]

Originally posted by: Ded To the people comparing hunting whales to killing cows - I ask you to think about why people aren't hunting Pandas in China, Kiwi in New Zealand, or California Condor's in the United States of America. Then talk to me about the comparison of something rare, beautiful, and intelligent like a whale, and a common, domesticated animal such as a cow or sheep. There is no comparison.quote>

Il give you my answer, becouse people do care! If there where only a couple of thousands of cows left almost all people would object to killing them.

People (in this case the japanese) are just not convinced, as is evident by some replies in this thread, that wales are actually that threatened and furthermore they are not convinced that stopping whale hunting is to be immediately prioritised. If they were threatened (and im not saying some arent), and people where informed, im most people would stop supporting wale hunting resulting in local and regional outlawing and a shrinking demand.

So information is the key i believe.

[Easy Bakes 253]

I think its kind of iffy that they would need to Kill them to do "research".

Its Quite odvious ( to me anyway) they only want the meat.

Do they ever say what kind of research they will do the collected samples?

[aking88 7]

Originally posted by: Ded

Originally posted by: aking88

Ded:

I understand where you are coming from, but at the same time we are no more than humans ourselves, i dont think that people want to cause harm. Its just that the alternatives are not developed enough. I believe we humans need to be balanced when it comes to living with whats around us, we need to take personal responsibilities so as to minimize the harm in the us of nature, and also take actions to leave notable part of the nature free, such as setting up private unfragmented wildlifesanctuaries which can be financed by people who care about the issues and eco-tourism.

Furthermore i think genetical manipulation of farmed animals is sickening and i think it should be outlawed, if not by national governments then by informed municipalities and its citizens.

But as i say, i think it needs to truly be private efforts by people in a free society to be lasting and true. Availability of information on the issue is important for that as well as open dialogue.

I do not think that most of humans would be able or willing to go vegetarian. And that is not beocuse they are lesser people but becouse of how they view the world and their place in it etc.quote>

My apologies for the double post, but i felt a reply was necessary.

Our perceptions of the World are maliable. That is, they can be freely changed as we grow and develop. To make the choice not to eat meat means that you've percieved an issue and that you've chosen to become informed and do what you believe is best. It fascinates me so much, how people are shocked at the unsustainable nature of farming animals for consumption. Economically, by eating fresh fruits and vegetables that are in season, you can save hundreds of dollars every year - yet people aren't informed. Though to be fair, they have themselves to blame for choosing not to be informed, as much as people with corporate responsibility are to blame for choosing not to inform them.

As for the genetic modification issue - If we apply that rule to fruits and vegetables -  we can develop frost and draught resistant foods, which allow more to be fed, and are relatively cost-effective to grow and produce. We have so many tools at our disposal, yet we don't use them. There's some food for thought...quote>

There are some dangers to applying genetic modification, even to fruits, becouse altough it may have short term advantages (to farmers) it may be dangerous if the genes spread in the nature and outcompete the current flora.

And i, in contrary to you, dont believe its the corporate interests responsibility to inform (since when have they been granted this, and why should people trust corporate interests?), but rather every individuals responsibility to be as responsible as can, inform and stay informed. As i said, an open dialogue and availability of uncensored sources from all perspectives is the best solution. I believe that with this freedom people are more prone to take responsibility than if they are encouraged to give it up to governmental interests or trust corporate ones.

I dont agree either that farming cattle is neccessarely unsustainable, maybe the way we do it today can become so, but we can do it in better ways that are better for both animals and us. And im confident the way of farming will develope.

I think that if you truly believe in what you preach and put time into it, the best way to reach out to people is to form a private organisation for the case, go out and inform people directly and as factually as possible. Possibly collect money for projects which could grow to natural sanctuaries etc.

[belfastuniguy 18]

@Moshi, I accept that many nations engaged in whaling in the past, and others still do including Japan, Faroe Islands, Canada, Iceland and Norway.

However the vast majority have banned it as there is no longer a need to hunt whales as well as the national outcry that would follow if say past whaling nations of America or the UK were to go sailing to Antarctica and kill 1000 whales. All the products obtained from whales can be produced using chemicals, whale oil is little used these days. The market for whale meat in Japan is not all that exclusive, you can buy whale meat burgers, that's hardly luxury meal at a great restaurant. Yes the Japanese have a long history, but lets be frank, they are one of the most technologically advanced nations on earth and yet find is necessary to kill whales to study their stomachs and reproductive systems, I may also add that last year Japan killed 505 Minke Whales, of which 262 were pregnant females.

That is a total disgrace, what can they learn from 505 that they can not learn from a couple, it's a shameless excuse to provide meat for the Japanese and something that should be outlawed. I would like to see the IWC have more powers to impose sanctions on these nations. In the year 2007 there is no need for this kind or barbaric practice.

[sunrise7 0]

1,Japan is not really doing 'research' of hunting whales;

2,If anybody can't see why we would like stop killing whales etc, you may need study some biology and ecology.

[TheJerseyDevil73 13]

I have a few points to make on this topic.

First, I don't agree or disagree wth this, but I do understand it as a realist.

- For Example there are nearly 200,000 Minke whales on earth. They are no where near extinction. Taking roughly half of one percent will not impact the population.

- Many countries kill many types of animals in massive numbers for different reasons. At the end of the day it is usually for the consumer despite what ever reason they want to justify the killings for.

- The thing that gets me is the public usualy only cares when animals are killed if they are appealing to the eye. Cute Pandas, seals, whales.... and so on. LOL, if its a stuffed animal your kid would own people are usually apposed to its killing. This being said there are many animals on earth facing extinction that no body cares about, frogs, lizards, insects and so on.

- Recently in world news there have been protest over the killing of seals in the Canadian arctic. Fuzzy little white seals that get clubed over the head for there furs. I can't critisize this and many other shouldn't. The species is growing at a very healthy pace so there is no worry about there numbers. People just don't want to come to terms with a baby seal being clubbed to death. The funny thing is these same people don't mind eating cows that are bled to death or eating chicken or turkeys that are hung upside down on a line that moves along until there heads are pulled off by an automated machine.

This being said I am not a big fan of people complaining over such topics.

[coolotter88 2]

researching the taste, texture, and how to cook the whale meat of course.

[your_adress_here 11]

Mmm... whale burgers.

[krbe 193]

Originally posted by: your_adress_here Mmm... whale burgers.quote>

You have tasted them? What do you think of it? It must be some of the worst meat God's blue earth provide us with.