Cockatoo's BAT Thread

[Cockatoo 2,257]

Hi Guys!

Yep... I've decided to take up BATing (Something I've wanted to do ever since I herd about it but never had the time or effort to take it up.)

At the moment I’m re-creating Hong Kong for a City Journal project if you don't already know and even though there's a massive amount of custom content already available for the city, I have a list of buildings that I really want to add to my collection, so that's why I'm here.

My current project is this. Here's some new preview renders...

Here's an in game render I made a few days ago.

The Prince of Wales building or The Chinese People's Liberation Army Forces Hong Kong Building (It was re-named in 2002 after the Chinese take over of Hong Kong in 1997) is a 120m, 28 floor high building in the Admiralty district of Central Hong Kong Island. In real life it's smack bang between the Far East Finance Centre (Released by PaulvMontfort on the STEX) and the Bank of America tower. It was constructed in 1976.

At the moment it's just a bunch of rectangles with textures on it. I'm gonna be honest and tell you that the windows on the tower body are just textured on. Since that last render I've re-done the roof textures, made the tower a little higher and started to add some roof junk. I've still got to add way more detail to the roofs and walls, add the windows to the base and add night lights. I've already made the lot (2 dependencies for now) as you can see.

But before I can go any further I have some questions that I really hope somebody can answer.

1. If you look at the textures on the body of the tower their all messed up and they change (warp) as you rotate around the building. Why is this? It’s fine in the game though.

2. I need a BAT tutorial that explains how to make shapes more complex than just rectangles and boxes and cylinders ect, dose anyone know where a really good one is?

3. What is 3ds Max? Heaps of people seem to be using this over Gmax now. What are the advantages of 3ds Max and can you download it for free or do you have to pay?

EDIT: Thanks for your helps!

[Godzillaman 21]

Oh wow that render looks nice! The building has a 60's look to it. Be nice to upload to the stex, eh?

[bixel 1,224]

Oh I wish I had the time to give you some modeling tips and tricks but right now I am so busy, I will help you out next week.

[Cockatoo 2,257]

Hey thanks Bixel, I'm gonna need all the help I can get if I wan't to get this up to the standard of all the other buildings in HK! Looking foward to next week!

Godzillaman, thanks. I might upload it if I think it's good enough but no promises...

[Jasoncw 11,934]

The viewports are not meant to be great renders.

But to improve them, go to Customize>Preferences, and under the viewports tab, in the lower right part of the screen, change the driver to OpenGL.

As far as viewports go, just ignore what they look like.  Don't use them to judge how your building looks, use preview renders instead, which will show you exactly what your building will look like in the game.

In the omnibus, there are some BATing tutorials.  Especially read the BAT Essentials tutorial, which covers a lot.  Also read the tutorials and tricks that came with the BAT.  Aside from that, just look around here for tutorials, and just browse people's BAT threads, you'll learn a lot.  Also, you can search google for Gmax tutorials.

Gmax is a free version of 3ds Max.  It's expensive if you're a student (student discount), and super-expensive if you pay the normal price.  Along with a few other 3D programs, it's an industry standard, and effects for movies like The Matrix were done in 3ds Max.

[SimFox 802]

Couple of words.

Jason already have explained situation with GMAX and MAX. Apart form that yu can model in many other 3d modeling packages, for instance Blender that has MORE advanced features and tools that GMAX and is free open source software with quite large user community around the world and as such ahas a lot of info on the WEB with tutorials ans what not. But you would still need to export your made model into GMAX to take to game.

At any rate you would have to learn how to model. Just look at the tools and available support base to see what would be best for you.

Downloading ready models and pass them along isn't all smart idea it looks for most novices. - EDITING something made NOT by you is generally MORE difficult than making it in the first place.

Also some models are done it software packages that are TOO DIFFERENT in their approach to 3d that makes it more or less a wast of time.

Like this model you show here - it is made in Sketch-UP from Google.

Practically all detailing is 2d - simply put textures... There isn't much model under it - it is just 2-3 simple boxes. That could be made in GMAX in a matter of 2 minutes.

Generally models from Sketch-Up - particularly those made for Google Earth that you can download are not suitable for use in SC4. the only Value in them is that you can use them as skale/size reference no more then that.

Reality if you want to do something it is better to really do it and not waste your time trying to find short-cut...

What I would suggest is to make your own model from scratch using this downloaded as a reference. To get to the point where you are right now with this one you would need to create 4 boxes, convert them to editable mesh or editable poly, and move vertecies to get the size and proportions right. You can align your boxes to the model and use it as a guide.

[bixel 1,224]

As Simfox said - additionally, with Jason's recommendations - if you want to continue to use gmax and the autodesk line - get philipobo's BAT tutorial >>> https://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=140&threadid=78721&enterthread=y

- i learned all my 1st steps there. Its an amazing step by step tut from making the building, texturing, nitelites, and then export and ingame - it covers it all. I will show you some step-by-step tricks like simfox said about converting this to mesh/poly and then manipulating them, but I've no time right now.

[Cockatoo 2,257]

Originally posted by: SimFox Couple of words.

Also some models are done it software packages that are TOO DIFFERENT in their approach to 3d that makes it more or less a wast of time.

Like this model you show here - it is made in Sketch-UP from Google.

Practically all detailing is 2d - simply put textures... There isn't much model under it - it is just 2-3 simple boxes. That could be made in GMAX in a matter of 2 minutes.

Generally models from Sketch-Up - particularly those made for Google Earth that you can download are not suitable for use in SC4. the only Value in them is that you can use them as skale/size reference no more then that.

Reality if you want to do something it is better to really do it and not waste your time trying to find short-cut...

What I would suggest is to make your own model from scratch using this downloaded as a reference. To get to the point where you are right now with this one you would need to create 4 boxes, convert them to editable mesh or editable poly, and move vertecies to get the size and proportions right. You can align your boxes to the model and use it as a guide.

quote>

Google sketch-Up? Don't waste your time trying to find shotrcuts? You sugest that I make my own model from scratch? You've really lost me here.

I did make this entierly from scratch in Gmax. I don't even have this sketchup program that your talking about on my computer . I know it's a basic model that looks like it could have come out of sketchup but I made this from the ground up in the BAT (No other programs used). Except Paint Shop Pro for the textures.

Yes, I'm totally new to 3D modeling and I've only made this with the experiance that I got from the first half of Phillipo's BAT tutorial (I need to finish that before I do any more on this building.)

[bixel 1,224]

Bad Simfox BAD BAD!!!!

I was wondering why he said that too.

Simfox go back to your drawing boards and keep making BATs I expect another one by this SAT!! Pronto!!

[SimRabbit 48]

3. What is 3ds Max? Heaps of people seem to be using this over Gmax now. What are the advantages of 3ds Max and can you download it for free or do you have to pay?quote>

3dsmax is a $4,000 dollar program used mainly for film and gaming industry. This prgram has more advanced tools than GMAX.

I wonder how some ppl here at ST can afford such an expensive program...

[skyliner22 16]

i heard theres a student discount but that is still $300

[Godzillaman 21]

Originally posted by: SimRabbit

3. What is 3ds Max? Heaps of people seem to be using this over Gmax now. What are the advantages of 3ds Max and can you download it for free or do you have to pay?quote>

3dsmax is a $4,000 dollar program used mainly for film and gaming industry. This prgram has more advanced tools than GMAX.

I wonder how some ppl here at ST can afford such an expensive program...quote>

Bill Gates knows and trusts them yeah like that happens

I'd also noticed this: there's too much shine on the rooftop and main floor rooftop. I just noticed this...is that a piece of playground equipment there? You know...the thing that looks like it spins...on the lot. Looks like teacups

[Cockatoo 2,257]

Godzillaman: Yea, that's already done. Changed the roof texture yesterday.

Damn, $4000! I guess that's in US dollars too... I think I'll stick to Gmax for now...

Anyway, I made these window textures when I was experimenting with some PSP effects. Might use these in an upcoming BAT? Proud to say I made them from scratch too (Didn't use sketchup here either...)

[Sim shady 12]

impressive window textures

[Cockatoo 2,257]

Wow, I've learned so much in just a day...

Here's an experiential building using my glass textures. (Not actually a Hong Kong real life building although the logo on the top is the Hong Kong tourism board, just wanted to add a logo.)

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Yeah, that looks very interesting! Of course, cou'd have to adapt the tiling of the texture to the size of the window panes of the respective BAT to make it look perfect, but taht kind of distorted texture could work well for windows! There are so many really well-modeled BATs out there that have black windows without any texture - it's really sad! Unfortunately I won't be any help when it comes to actual BATting, but I can still add my 2 cents once in a while...

[autoVino 26]

Very nice texture, but it would be even nicer if it reflected the ground more and the sky less.  This would boost up realism greatly.

[kd5rax 82]

As good as you are at textures, I'm thinking that with geometry improvements, your going to greatly improve. Honestyl, for it being nothing but a texture, the first is actually not all that terrible. I think you'll improve, just practice on geometry, its your weakpoint, you dont really need to practice your texturing at this point cause its already rather good for a begginer. What you might try to do is make an entire building out of geometry, with the only textures as just flat color... I know it sounds intimidating, but its the first real step into bat.

Edit: about the price of 3d max, student discounts really really help... and theres plenty of versions that you can start with a 30 day trial in one version, and when in runs out, upgrade to another 30 day trial, and so on

starting at max 5 you have a good 3 months of 3dmax for trials...  I did that in my early days of using 3ds max

[DarkEldar 6]

This is good although you are going to have to start varying your use of geometry and start making window frames for extra depth in your models,but so far your use of different shapes has definitely improved.

[Cockatoo 2,257]

kd5rx: Thanks for the advice man, I need it! I'm working on the geometry issue now just trying to learn ways of creating new and different shapes. As I said I've never done anything like 3D modeling before but I've had years working with photo editing programs so I guess that's what's helping with the textures.

[bixel 1,224]

OK I kinda went crazy on this, so...I meant to give you a little tut to get it going...but I accidentally went to far and almost made the entire model. so instead of writing sumthing up step-by-step I will give you this bizzare combination of images as clues.

&

& finally after making some more rectangles and arrays

should be close to that, this at least will get you some perspective on the general scale and size of the building, I think I came pretty close, but you will really want to scrutinize whats going on between those window frames, I think I came close but its not quite like the photo.

[Cockatoo 2,257]

Wow Bixel, looks like you did a great job with my building...

But seariously you've helped me out a lot! Thanks!

But for the moment though, I'm working on the base for my fantasy HK tourism board building.

Testing out some new geometry, not just all rectangles and boxes this time.

CLICK FOR FULL IMAGE

EDIT:  AutoVino: Did you mean something like this? Reflections of a busy Hong Kong back street. Here it is on the building. What looks better, clouds or city street reflections?

[Cockatoo 2,257]

I've added more this morning. To give a proper Hong Kong feel I've tried to add some overhanging street sings. I'll get back to the Prince of Wales building soon, I'm just trying to learn as much as I can with this building before I go back to that one.

EDIT:  Oh yea, I forgot to add, I've givin this building a name- The Yau Ma Tei Currency Exchange Corporation. (Because the street sings are from photo's of the Yau Ma Tei district).

[DarkEldar 6]

Thats very good, you have developed better skills with geometry overnight! Nice signs too

[BB62BlackDragon 13]

This is looking good! Great texturing!

[Alien_397 8]

That's some nice improvement in just a few days.

A note on the textures.  While you followed Autovino's advice admirably, you've reflected a scene that's one story high in of itself across a much larger area.  Essentially what he meant is that from the perspetive you see buildings from in SC4 you will see reflections of nearby buildings and ground on the windows instead of the sky as you'd see from the ground.  You have to pay attention to the scale of those reflections, trying to keep it realistic in terms of the size of the building your making.  Look around at a number of the better BAT's on the STEX and you'll find examples of this.  It's all coming along nicely though.

Chris

[autoVino 26]

That detail and texturing is coming along very nicely!

[Cockatoo 2,257]

Added the base roof so all that's left to do on the modle is the roof junk and the rest of the texturing. In the mean time I've added more sinage! 7 Eleven, HSBC and the "Gloden Center"

Alien_397:  You're right about that. I'll try and fix that up but the main problem with that is I need a photo of a Hong Kong back street to make the texture from and most of the ones from Google Images are taken from street level. I'll look arround but for the mean time we might have to live with a 20m high red taxi reflection !

[T Wrecks 10,209]

You're making progress at a dizzying pace, c0ckatoo... ATM, I think you've been given sensible feedback, and you're still busy fooling around, hence no specific input or suggestion from me for now, just some word of encouragement!

[mom mode]I hope you keep updates and make incremental saves lest you lose all your work in one corrupted file.[/mom mode]

[bixel 1,224]

T Wrecks I never keep incremental saves of anything man, I live on the EDGE!!, in fact while I am typing this I am precipitiously situated on a rock in the middle of a white rapids river! My computer tower is sitting on a makeshift raft I made with reeds!! I call it Moses, but enough of that. C0ckatoo-210893 you are doing great. Curious how this develops.