The CAM split in the STEX

[Somebody 12]

Which way will you go? and what do you think about this split. <--preface  

Well with the first two CAM-e-lots released (that  i know of) by dmscopio how do you feel about the incroaching era of CAM-nonCAM lots

[ilikehotdogsalot 308]

the cam is a very good mod, but not really for me. i don't really care much for simcity 4's gameplay, especially since i cheat in every city i make i think it would be nice if creators made a non-cam and cam version of their items if possible, similar to how bixel has been releasing his work, but we can't always get what we want

[patriots_1228 51]

theres thousands of camelot buildings on the LEX, dmscopio has released the stex's first two though.

I don't use the CAM, and im kinda annoyed that all of the sudden everyone( as in creators) assumes we all use CAM ( because a majority of the community probably doesnt), and therefore make only CAM versions, but they usually make a regular plop and its easy to mod that to make a growable, so, i deal

[sebbyb07 2]

I'm not even sure what cam does exactly, I'm more of a plopper than anything else. I try not to grow too much.

[mrbisonm 1,620]

I am not a friend of CAM neither. I tried it, but then you need lots that have too many dependencies and it kinda slows down my game too much. There's enough stuff out there to make the game interesting without the CAM.

For many others it might be an amazing addon,( if they don't play with other mods or too many dependencies), I am sure, because the idea was great, but not for me.

And I also agree with patriots_1228 that the majority of players don't use CAM for several reasons. So it would be a good idea to have non-CAM versions also but then again it's not up to me.......

[Jasoncw 11,841]

The CAM is a great accomplishment, but all of my current plugins (which I like a lot) are not CAM, and my cities never go above 8 stages (usually only a couple of stage 8s).  And of course all of my SC4 time is spent BATing, lol.  So it isn't really for me.

But I think calling it a split is too preemptive.  Right now only one small group of people can conveniently make CAM lots (as far as I know), and on the STEX, there are only a handful of CAM lots.

[toxicpiano 125]

Originally posted by: mrbisonm I am not a friend of CAM neither. I tried it, but then you need lots that have too many dependencies and it kinda slows down my game too much. There's enough stuff out there to make the game interesting without the CAM.

For many others it might be an amazing addon,( if they don't play with other mods or too many dependencies), I am sure, because the idea was great, but not for me.

And I also agree with patriots_1228 that the majority of players don't use CAM for several reasons. So it would be a good idea to have non-CAM versions also but then again it's not up to me.......

quote>

Actually you don't need any dependencies if you are just installing CAM. Dependencies are for add ons.

[RippleJet 36]

Originally posted by: Jasoncw Right now only one small group of people can conveniently make CAM lots (as far as I know), and on the STEX, there are only a handful of CAM lots.quote>

Actually, we have a standing offer to anybody wanting to make good CAMeLots in accordance with Wouanagaine's "X" Tool. Read down the preamble of CAMeLots - Linking all available lots and bats.

Whether more CAMeLots will appear on the STEX is up to the CAMeLot creators.

[BarbyW 40]

CAM is not just about growing skyscraper cities. As NAM has been able to correct many of the faults in the Maxis pathfinding so CAM aims to correct the elements regarding the growth stages imbalance. Maxis left in the option to continue to 15 growth stages but never implemented it and CAM does that along with a smoothing out of the curves of demand and growth. It gives much more balance to the game as a whole for those of us who grow cities and not just plop them.

Along with the CAM wouanagaine has developed a new tool that will replace the Maxis PIM to give more balanced stats to buildings. The Maxis PIM is seriously out of balance for many of the properties and keeping its default settings has resulted in garbage overload in many cities in the past. This tool will not only give more balanced stats but will also allow the production of lots to stage 15. Currently wouanagaine is overwhelmed by RL and the tool is still unfinished although being extensively tested by BSC and NHP. Any of the CAMeLots you see have been made using the new tool and many updates of, for example, SimGoober's work are also being released to have more balanced stats. Over time more growables from BSC members will be updated. These updates do not always result in lots ending up over stage 8 and so will not impact on those who do not want to use CAM. They will just be better balanced lots but will perform best when CAM is in use.

It will not impact on performance in game as that is dependent on your machine and your plugins folder. As for having many dependencies, this is simply not true. The dependencies for props and textures are common ones that most people will already have. The dependencies for the buildings are, again, most likely to be in many people's plugins already. Apart from anything else the dependency debate is getting very boring. This has been going on for far too long and providing uploaders give linked lists of where to find dependencies there should be no further debate. It is when uploaders use out dated dependencies or do not give links to them that there are problems. Lists have been provided with links to everything used in the CAMeLots to help. mrbisonm, you keep stating how big your plugin folder is so I would seriously doubt that you would have to download anything extra.

As for how BATters of large buildings decide what their lots will be, well that is up to them as it always has been. If a BATter wants to only offer a skyscraper in a growth stage over 8 it is a personal decision. If they also offer the same building as a stage 8 then regard that as a bonus. It is not up to the community to demand what is made and uploaded.

[Filasimo 1]

Let me guess this will end up being just like the dependency debate......good job somebody

[Voar Tok 4]

Although I do smell a smattering of brouhaha starting, I just want to tell everyone to try to remember that people don't make these things for people to sit around and whine about how some such thing isn't quite to their liking. It's like having brownies put in front of me, but they have nuts in them. Personally, I generally don't care for nuts. Me sitting there and whining about how they have nuts in them isn't going to get rid of the nuts, so don't waste your time whining about it. Move on to the brownies without the nuts.

[Bluebeard 0]

I like brownies with nuts and I like CAM.

[Sam 163]

Originally posted by: Voar Tok

...

It's like having brownies put in front of me, but they have nuts in them. Personally, I generally don't care for nuts. Me sitting there and whining about how they have nuts in them isn't going to get rid of the nuts, so don't waste your time whining about it. Move on to the brownies without the nuts.

...quote>

And further to VT's point, the Sc4 community has the equivalent of 1001 different varieties anyway, so there's plenty of choice for everyone, with no need for squabbling.

People like to play the game in different ways or like different kinds of content that may not be to your liking, so please be respectful of that. Its neither fair nor reasonable to expect custom content creators to make every upload appeal to everyone all the time, nor to provide 101 different versions of it in order to keep everyone happy.

As I see it, we have a new way to play and enjoy the game, and there's no reason for that to be anything other than a good thing.

[FrankU 354]

I hope I am going to like CAM. Definitely I will use it.

Sometimes you're not sure wether you like brownies with or without nuts. So then you try both and you keep te best one.

I am especially fond of all the farms and in this respect I have the feeling that CAM makes more possible.

Also I was charmed by the "promote biking" option, as a Dutchman I see it as one of the best ways of preventing overcrowding and polluting of my city :-)

And I need farms to make my country look realistic. In the Netherlands there exists no such thing as nature. We can choose between: building, infrastructure, farmland or water. Our "nature reserves" are better to be described as extensively maintained parkareas.

Thank you for your patience.

[mrbisonm 1,620]

We were simply asked if or if not we would like the Cam on the STex in this thread, and this is EXActly what we answered to, so there isn't any whining about here at all, neither a dependency debate. (Don't start anything that doesn't exist please)

Next time you folks ask questions like this, be simply prepared to get different answers, even those you don't want to hear. And if you don't like it, why do you even bother asking ?

If I still were a Moderator this thread would be closed by now. This community is not ready to discuss things neutrally without offending or feeling offended.I don't know exactly what's wrong here, maybe jealousy or even just plein stupidity, but personal opinions are always being attcked on this site. I am not, both, neither offending nor feeling offended, but this was my opinion, and I live in a country where we say what we think and NOT what others want to hear. Simple as that and there's nothing wrong with that. Personal opinions are there to discuss and not to dispute. Stop picking on the folks that have a different opinion as you. Instead of trying to convince and make everyone believe in your own opinion, try at least to understand those of others and if you can't, just freaking accept. I'm asking you to be logical or is this too much to ask?

BarbyW, Yes I have a great list of dependency, maybe 70% of all depends and texs which exist, but when I downloaded some CAM bldgs, they were missing props (dohh). You see I think I have enough depends and don't want anymore, because this can go on for ever and ever and bring me (us) to a point where I don't want to play SC anymore because the fun died caused by the slowing of the gameplay. Hope you understand, there's nothing else than this. I am not an enemy of depends at all, it's just enough to have like a dozen of the same of these (or very similar) and those props and textures in my pluginfolder.

No hard feeling folks.....and please simply accept everyone's opinion without climbing to the roof each time you hear /see someone talking about dependencies and textures . They're not wining, it's just an opinion. Thanks for listening.

Did you know....one can listen to an opinion without being obliged to change his?

Think!

mrbisonm.

[Bluebeard 0]

Well Mr. B there is the rub of this site and why alot of older members have choosen to leave.

       Freedom of speech is allowed on this site but only if the staff agrees with you.This site was once the flagship of SC but as of late turned into a ship of spoiled brats who want there cake and eat it to.

   If you don't like CAM then don't download it and for love of GOD please grow up.Thanx

[Glenni 1,444]

I'm just fine with how my game is , so i don't really care if i need the CAM or not. Though if others wanna use it.. why should i care? Let em have their fun...

[BarbyW 40]

We were simply asked if or if not we would like the Cam on the STex in this thread, and this is EXActly what we answered to, so there isn't any whining about here at all, neither a dependency debate. (Don't start anything that doesn't exist please)quote>

That was not the question posted by Somebody. This is:

Which way will you go? and what do you think about this split. <--preface  

Well with the first two CAM-e-lots released (that  i know of) by dmscopio how do you feel about the incroaching era of CAM-nonCAM lots quote>

Your original reply:

I am not a friend of CAM neither. I tried it, but then you need lots that have too many dependencies and it kinda slows down my game too much. There's enough stuff out there to make the game interesting without the CAM. For many others it might be an amazing addon,( if they don't play with other mods or too many dependencies), I am sure, because the idea was great, but not for me.quote>

brought up the subject of dependencies. I did not take offence but tried to explain what CAM is and will do for the game. I also tried to explain that CAM in itself will not slow down your game. It the amount of plugins in use and whether they are organised as efficiently as possible combined with the spec of the computer being used that slows down gameplay.

Next time you folks ask questions like this, be simply prepared to get different answers, even those you don't want to hear. And if you don't like it, why do you even bother asking ? quote>

As the question was from a fairly new member of the community who has so far not posted again I felt it was reasonable to try dispel some of the myths that seem to be growing about CAM. I have no idea who Somebody is nor if he/she has a great deal of experience with SC4 so I attempted to give a balanced view.

Personal opinions are there to discuss and not to dispute. Stop picking on the folks that have a different opinion as you. Instead of trying to convince and make everyone believe in your own opinion, try at least to understand those of others and if you can't, just freaking accept.quote>

I wasn't aware that I was disputing or picking on anyone. I gave a neutral comment and did not try to make anyone believe in my opinion. I gave facts about CAM; nothing more, nothing less.

As for your problem with missing props, you are more than capable of relotting the ones missing unless it is the model when you would have a brown box. If that were the case simply delete the lots that you do not have models for. No one "climbed on the roof" as far as I can see; no one is twisting anyone's arm to use CAM but there do seem to be some people around who do not understand fully what it is.  The first person to bring up the subject of dependencies was you and no has mentioned textures until the last paragraph of your last post.

[mrbisonm 1,620]

I simply don't care anymore. I have fun with the game as it is and that's all I want. Here, I only gave my opinion and it started a stupid debate again, which I will NOT continue. I simply said that it takes too much dependencies FOR ME, it was supposed to be MY opinion and nothing more. 

Maybe it is my way of expression that it is not understood exactly by some of you. Remember, english is only my fourth language. Sorry if it is.

BarbyW, some of these CAM lots are not props, and if they're not, I cannot change the lot, simply don't know how. I wasn't asking for , neither was I deceived that these CAM bldg's didn't come out as regular lots, I just mentioned it. I can do without them. No harm done.

Let's have a nice day all together.

Btw, the CAM is a great add-on , probably for many of us, but not to me.

 

End of transmission.

(why in the heck are people always trying to find some mistakes in one's opinion)

[GMT 389]

i like the cam... but it has so many flaws... my main problem is that it still says i miss dependencies (e.g. growables show up as boxes), allthough i have them ALL

but all in all, cam is cool

[BarbyW 40]

GMT: if you having problems please post at SC4Devotion with the names of the buildings that are showing as brown boxes.

[Godzillaman 21]

Originally posted by: Voar Tok Although I do smell a smattering of brouhaha starting, I just want to tell everyone to try to remember that people don't make these things for people to sit around and whine about how some such thing isn't quite to their liking. It's like having brownies put in front of me, but they have nuts in them. Personally, I generally don't care for nuts. Me sitting there and whining about how they have nuts in them isn't going to get rid of the nuts, so don't waste your time whining about it. Move on to the brownies without the nuts. quote>

Pick em' out! Thats what I do!

If maxis did have 15 stages in the game, do you think there'd be better buildings then...Wren Insurance...popping up a lot more?

[mavfin 0]

Here are my comments on the CAM, and somewhat on dependencies. (These are all MY opinion) The CAM seems to give more variety and more options for someone who likes to *grow* their cities. If you're a plopper, I can't see you caring enough to load the CAM and the lot/dependency packs that go with it. It was a very simple process, as 95% of the stuff was linked right in the readmes, and what wasn't, I could go to one thread and get the corrections. However, as others have mentioned, the CAM is not for everyone. As far as modders, they produce what they wish. If they want to make a stage 14 CAMelot, or a stage 8 normal building, that is *their prerogative*. They're doing the work, and they're not making a cent off of it. Complaining about one way or the other is kind of irrelevant, IMO. Same way with dependencies. If they want to use them, then you can either load the packs needed, or not use their building. Simple. If you want something different, make it yourself, download something different, or be quiet. Be thankful for all the custom content choices that you have. Complaining isn't going to get you anywhere.

[Filasimo 1]

I could not have said it better myself mavfin. Indeed there are links and detailed instructions on installing the CAM. If people do not want to spend the time in expanding the games full potential with this new Mod then thats their own loss, other people will install it and be happy with what the CAM has to offer.

[DuskTrooper 314]

Originally posted by: Voar Tok It's like having brownies put in front of me, but they have nuts in them. Personally, I generally don't care for nuts. Me sitting there and whining about how they have nuts in them isn't going to get rid of the nuts, so don't waste your time whining about it. Move on to the brownies without the nuts. quote>

And some of us would rather make and have our own damned brownies.  Heck, some of us like other baked goods, as well.

mmm...home cookin'

[Somebody 12]

I'm sorry that this thread ended up like this, i merely wanted to start a discussion about the emergence of the cam on the stex and how this might affect it, and where you stand on making cam-noncam lots. thats it, so keep it clean please

[Simfan34 11]

I don't use the CAM, but I appricate all the work put into it neverthless, but I find it imprudent for lots that require the mod to be uploaded here unless the CAM is provided here as well.

[mrbisonm 1,620]

Originally posted by: Somebody I'm sorry that this thread ended up like this, i merely wanted to start a discussion about the emergence of the cam on the stex and how this might affect it, and where you stand on making cam-noncam lots. thats it, so keep it clean pleasequote>

 

Don't be sorry, we had a colorful and peaceful discussion. No harm done, no one was electricuted, shot or hanged....... but everyone has given his/her opinion and that is very good, when there's no flaming , just like in this thread. If we only could always communicate like this.

Like I said, the CAM is not for me, but I might try it again another time in the future with a different pluginfolder, just to see how difficult and interesting it can get while growing a city that far. But I suppose it might be more interesting to wait until there's more choices of CAM lots out there.

[Palpatine001 57]

Well this debate has gone from one side of the galaxy to the other and back and foward again about 50 more times

I echo Filasimo's and mavfin statements on, if you don't like it move along. 

Just a note specifically: dependencies, and lots with them, love them or hate them, they are hear and hear to stay, for one lotters like myself are very reliant on them for lot creating. So long as the links are provided to the original content, then it is up to you whether to download it or not. No use packing a sad about it as we will not listen and most probably call you a masive TWIT.

Now for BarbyW (and to everyone else), I have used BSC and CSX farms in my region Solaria, now the dependencies are still driving me insane in trying to hunt them all down, so what do I do, well I have 2 options, jump up and down and call BarbW a useless so and so and then get a kicking from everyone or I do the more logical option.

I thank BarbyW for creating a wonderful set that is of value, then open up LE, and rearrange the lots so with the piles (and I mean piles) of props I already have so I no longer have missing dependencies and hey, I end up with a lot that is more better suited to my needs. And on the occasion if I feel really compelled, I'll go and BAT and Lot new stuff to share with everyone else - that is what we call friendly competition.

Btw - a thanks to barbyw for inspiration as I go creating New Zealand Based Farms

So moral of the story, Don't like it, you have two options, either do a (so called) better job by creating new material or keep your gob SHUT and move along, your whinning is consuming precious O2 and reading time. And if there is a bug found, let us know, it won't take long to fix

Hey VT pass the brownies with the nuts in them, I'll have a few

[north country dude 202]

Brownies? Did some one mention Brownies?

I want one! with or without nuts, I don't care. I just looove brownies!