Save Simtropolis on Wikipedia!

[ILL Tonkso 1,239]

I shall find you some images of it, it is a printed artical. Thankyou for your time

[JanYpe 17]

Originally posted by: Jonjonbt

You guys are doing what we in Wikipedia call canvassing, and that will get you blocked. I will go to the extra mile to get you blocked. Either stop canvassing, and get the page deleted, or you can continue canvassing, and you will be blocked. I am Jonjonbt on Wikipedia, and feel free to attack me on my talk page. It'll get you even closer to a block!

Have a nice day!

Jonjonbt

PS... I know a few admins who can block you...

quote>

No. A member who took partial responsibility  for the maintenance of our article asked for attention and input on the debate. There was no call to flood the debate or any action taken that might reasonably require a block. Do not attempt to threaten or assert some false sense of authority over our members on our site, concerning what you see as aggression on their part. This is hypocrisy at its finest.

Everyone will remain civil in this thread and in that debate.

[Simfan34 11]

Originally posted by: Fredrick Day Hi - very briefly if you are going to head over to the AFD, here are a couple of pointers.

First of all AFD is NOT a vote - so heading over there and saying any of the following is a waste of time

keep it because I like it!

Keep it because this other article exists!

Keep it because I find it useful!

Keep it because it's not doing any harm!

none of those are useful responses in an AFD discussion - you can read more here -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arguments_to_avoid_in_deletion_discussions

For the article to saved, you need a policy based reason

Fredquote>

 

Can one get anymore arrogant? But personal attacks aside, as my friend 6u said, we HAVE the links.  We HAVE the sources. Look around you:

"SimCity Societies: Exclusive Q&A"

"Cities Unlimited: Special Interest Feature"

"Simtropolis To Visit EA, Meet With Societies Team "

Those are only recent ones. We have had things like these for many years (since 2002) We were mentioned in a well published magazine, which I shall find after this. The only thing keeping this back is your rule opposing informantion being given by us. So the French can't contibute to the France article? Or the Dubai workers to Burj Dubai?

[6underground 11]

So the French can't contibute to the France article? Or the Dubai workers to Burj Dubai?quote>

Really good point. As Day said, we aren't even permitted to provide forum membership as evidence of popularity and notability because, somewhere in the past someone from a different forum falsified theirs. In essence, EVERYONE is tarred with the same brush. How charming..

[Haljackey 17,385]

Well, I am sorry to say this, but....

Wikipedia has EVERY RIGHT to delete this page. Just look at it, before and after it was edited. NO source information WHATSOEVER. This tells wikipedia that, even though this site really exists, this article could have been made by a 6 year old kid who just made the whole article up. We need to get some source information on that site, preferably about the webmaster/administraros who made this site what it is today.

We could also put in a source that for example, states that this site has 184,566 users are registered to the Simtropolis forum AS OF AUGUST 13th, 2007. We then have something to credit, even though it is in the past.

This article does not cite any references or sources.

Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. (help, get involved!)

Unverifiable material may be challenged and removed.

This article has been tagged since May 2007.quote>

THIS NEEDS TO BE SOLVED!

In order to save the page, A LOT OF WORK needs to be done. Wikipedia strives to be an accurate, true, and informative online encyclopedia. Articles like this are not up to the site's standards, and they are therefore deleted.

I hate to burst this bubble, but I am just saying whats going on here in the most honest way. I hope this article is saved though, because it offers a lot of additional information when people are searching for SC4 and follow the article's link to this site.

-Haljackey.

[nofunk 1,933]

Why is everyone ragging on Wikipedia for insisting that the entry have sources and that its "facts" be verifiable? Their demands are perfectly justified. How can they claim to be a reliable source of information if they allow articles with no citations?

If you don't want the entry to be deleted, then go find news articles or statistics that back-up the assertions made in the entry. (Articles and statistics that originate from somewhere OTHER than Simtropolis!)

Personally, I find the Wiki entry to be pretty useless and definitely lacking. Let it get deleted and go find something worthwhile to freak out about!

EDIT: haljackey sums up very well what I'm trying to say. And he even said it with more tact! Way to go.

[JanYpe 17]

Can one get anymore arrogant?quote>

It isn't unreasonable to post a quick reminder of what an AFD should and should not be about.

Everyone can stay clear from personal comments, or stay clear from this debate.

[Fredrick Day 0]

Can one get anymore arrogant? But personal attacks asidequote>

Eh? what personal attacks?

KEEP IT because.....

are the standard arguments that are often used in AFD debates, I just listed a few and then provided a link to the rest, this link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arguments_to_avoid_in_deletion_discussions

they are not things I came up with myself.

Regards

Fred

[patriots_1228 51]

Jonjonbt-ST has 184,576 members. Thats your source. 

~~ Edited for content. ~~

Please stay away from attacking people personally. Mike.

[ILL Tonkso 1,239]

I cant find anything on the PC Gamer Artical, anyone with Screenshots could kindly post them please

Edit: We arent going to get anywhere by flaming eachother either

[Simfan34 11]

" Do not attempt to threaten or assert some false sense of authority over our members on our site"

I echo this call! If a person was to come along here, you're acting like a mod! And those attack I mentioned were refernced to mine, Mr. Day.

[Fredrick Day 0]

Originally posted by: 6underground

So the French can't contibute to the France article? Or the Dubai workers to Burj Dubai?quote>

Really good point. As Day said, we aren't even permitted to provide forum membership as evidence of popularity and notability because, somewhere in the past someone from a different forum falsified theirs. In essence, EVERYONE is tarred with the same brush. How charming..quote>

Anyone can add to any article but it has to be based on reliable sources. Using your french example -

"French people eat lots of onions and wear striped jumpers, I know this because I am french" - is an appeal to authority and is not an acceptable source.

"The current population of france is 54,345,344 - the source I have provided for this is the official govt stats which I have taken from http://www.frenchgovt.fr" - is a fact backed by an acceptable source.

As for the faking stuff - it's a not single site that have tried such things in the past, 100s have tried it. In one AFD I was involved in, editors were phoned at home by people claiming to be EU officials (which they were not).

Regards

Fred

[ILL Tonkso 1,239]

Originally posted by: nofunk

Originally posted by: patriots_1228 Jonjonbt-ST has 184,576 members. Thats your source. Now get a life.......I've lost all the tiny respect i had for wikipedia....the fact that you registered to threaten us and promise you will get that page removed shows what kind of a person you are.quote>

 

Are you 12?quote>

As i said, (aiming this post at patriots) Flaming eachother isnt going to aid matters is it? Dont make things worse please.

[Fredrick Day 0]

If anyone could find that UK gamer article or indeed any other magazine article - those would excellent sources. Someone has said that EA has named it the largest community online - has anyone got a link to where EA say this?

[Simfan34 11]

Originally posted by: Fredrick Day

Originally posted by: 6underground

So the French can't contibute to the France article? Or the Dubai workers to Burj Dubai?quote>

Really good point. As Day said, we aren't even permitted to provide forum membership as evidence of popularity and notability because, somewhere in the past someone from a different forum falsified theirs. In essence, EVERYONE is tarred with the same brush. How charming..quote>

Anyone can add to any article but it has to be based on reliable sources. Using your french example -

"French people eat lots of onions and wear striped jumpers, I know this because I am french" - is an appeal to authority and is not an acceptable source.

"The current population of france is 54,345,344 - the source I have provided for this is the official govt stats which I have taken from http://www.frenchgovt.fr" - is a fact backed by an acceptable source.

As for the faking stuff - it's a not single site that have tried such things in the past, 100s have tried it. In one AFD I was involved in, editors were phoned at home by people claiming to be EU officials (which they were not).

Regards

Fred

quote>

 

Are you implying we're LYING?!!? I am insulted!

[6underground 11]

As for the faking stuff - it's a not single site that have tried such things in the past, 100s have tried it. In one AFD I was involved in, editors were phoned at home by people claiming to be EU officials (which they were not).quote>

That's pretty bad, but still equally bad that everyone is tarred with the same brush.

To reiterate, its NOT my opinion that Simtropolis has some 140,000 members, nor am I selling it to you. What I am saying (non opinion) is that Simtropolis roughly has 140,000 members (check membership stats on this site). Again, I'm sure that's completely unacceptable, even though its the source. But, isn't it therefore possible that an "independent" site claims simtropolis has "135,000 members" and we (hypothetically of course) but we falsified that data. The aren't you bound by those rules to accept that independent finding, since you aren't allowed data from the source?

ergo, both would be incorrect, since you wouldn't be able to prove or disprove that the numbers are incorrect?

[ILL Tonkso 1,239]

I believe thats on the official site somewhere but dont hold me to that

[Salbador 0]

simcity.ea.com/community/fansites/fansites.php

Problem solved

[6underground 11]

Day: You mean this: http://simcity.ea.com/community/fansites/fansites.php - Official SC4 website owned by EA/Maxis (Right at the top, with description)

[Shadow_prophet 91]

http://simcity.ea.com/community/fansites/fansites.php

Its the first one.

[nofunk 1,933]

.

[patriots_1228 51]

Nofunk-nope..14 to be exact..

[ILL Tonkso 1,239]

I would also like to take the time to appologise for any flaming you may have recieved on this forum. Most of us here wish to sort this matter out in a civil manner and i can assure you any rude members you may have encountered are not representitive of this community.

[JanYpe 17]

Originally posted by: Simfan34

Originally posted by: Fredrick Day

Originally posted by: 6underground

So the French can't contibute to the France article? Or the Dubai workers to Burj Dubai?quote>

Really good point. As Day said, we aren't even permitted to provide forum membership as evidence of popularity and notability because, somewhere in the past someone from a different forum falsified theirs. In essence, EVERYONE is tarred with the same brush. How charming..quote>

Anyone can add to any article but it has to be based on reliable sources. Using your french example -

"French people eat lots of onions and wear striped jumpers, I know this because I am french" - is an appeal to authority and is not an acceptable source.

"The current population of france is 54,345,344 - the source I have provided for this is the official govt stats which I have taken from http://www.frenchgovt.fr" - is a fact backed by an acceptable source.

As for the faking stuff - it's a not single site that have tried such things in the past, 100s have tried it. In one AFD I was involved in, editors were phoned at home by people claiming to be EU officials (which they were not).

Regards

Fred

quote>

 

Are you implying we're LYING?!!? I am insulted!quote>

You want to stop right there. His comments were perfectly acceptable from the point of view of someone on the outside looking in. He has been helpful and reasonable to boot.

Do not get carried away with misguided pride, anyone who continues to turn this into a flame war will face consequences. Make a useful, polite contribution or stay quiet.

I fully agree with Haljackey; without sources, there is no article.  (Didn't anyone save those PC Gamer scans btw?)

[Jasoncw 11,941]

So how would Simtropolis go about proving that it is the biggest SC4 site?  I can't think of anyway to prove that it is.  Do we need to find some independent group to find every single SC4 website in existence, then research the stats of each one?  There are sites like big-boards but sites like that aren't very accurate.

I understand that things should be verifiable, but what do you do when no one who has interest has the means to verify the facts?  I'm assuming that there are ways for dealing with situations like this (other than deletion, because relevance and the ability to verify facts are not interchangeable) but I don't think any of us know what those ways are.

Or does anyone know of other ways to verify ST's stuff?

[Simfan34 11]

Sure, and I looked for the scans, couldn't find them.

[LivingInThePast 364]

Thanks to me putting my name, I might get suspended from Wikipedia! Arrgh!

[Simfan34 11]

Whom? Me? I only put in my name!

[6underground 11]

Thanks to me putting my name, I might get suspended from Wikipedia! Arrgh!quote>

For what? Brining it to people's attention? Good God, talk about an ego trip for some of them!

Seriously, there was nothing in your first post that even remotely supported spamming the discussion page or to gain keep votes. Further more you went as far as to ask people to provide a good reason for their objection.

Seriously, "Wiki Admins", you are only reinforcing the "Essjay" event.

[Mikeaut1 261]

Posts that have been inflammatory have been removed by me.

I'm going to echo JanYpe, inflammatory posts need to stop now. If any bad posts pop up in this thread, make it certain that you will face consequences. This is just a general warning to everyone participating. 

Thanks!