Cleaning up the STEX

[patriots_1228 51]

some people in the chat and I were discussing the quality of the STEX nowadays, or should i say, "lack there of". we came up with some, IMO, pretty good ideas. The STEX is being littered with Spam, Plagerism, little effort, etc. we do not want to prevent new people from uploading, or discourage them from trying, we want to help them make sure they have done there best and upload somthing they can truly be proud of, instead of uploading a pink box and saying it was there first BAT as an excuse. here is our idea, please read it and think about it, instead of shooting it down like i suspect some of you will. 

All users began with the privilage to upload. once they make there first upload, a  "quality" moderator will look at it, and decided one thing. do they get to keep the upload privilage, or do they need to improve before gaining that right back? anyone who shows that they put in effort, and understand the program they are using (also, that they are trying to give the community somthing they cant get themselves), would keep there upload rights. once you get them, you cant lose them.someone who did not put effort in, or clearly does not understand the program they are using, and is just upload for the sake of uploading, will lose their rights. they will then open up a BAT thread, and once the "quality" mods decide they are ready, they will get upload rights. Now, seeing as none of the people who came up with this idea are mods, we cant really follow through with this idea. thats why i am posting it, so that you guys can here our idea, and maybe, if it settles well with dirk and the mods, it will be used. please dont gun this idea down, im tired of people crapping on the golden toilet seat that is the STEX  

also, to all people who plan to upload. before you upload, please look at what you have made, and ask yourself," Would i download this?" be honest. if the answer is no, go back to the BAT or LE, and try again.

[mjig_dudy 11]

Wise words.

The best part is that rather than discourage new members it actually encourages new members to improve and give their best, more so than the current situation.

[Cleaner475 150]

the thing I get anonye dwith currently on the STEX is the spam comments today some one posted 'love' three times on someones upload, that surely is not resposible or thoughtful

I hope the STEX is cleaned up.

[Bluebeard 0]

This whole of keeping a eye on STEX isn't new and I doubt it would ever really fly.What you call garbage someone else likes it.

   Now as to "Stealing" others work that is where the "Report" function comes into play.It's up to the ST staff if they want to remove it.

   As to the "New" designers well maybe a seperate STEX should be built for them till there good enough for the big time.

[hamsterTK 93]

I think a decision has been made on this

the only thing that maybe should be done in my opinion is maybe having the moderators delete things more swiftly when the need arises

[Jazzmaster 716]

I PMed Voar Tok a few days ago to get rid of that "module college series prop pack"...um...thing from before; that's cleaning up, right?  I'm not trying to pull out any names here, but I think BAT newbies should see this Omnibus article.  It helped me make my first "real" building; night-lights, roof junk, windows, doors, textures, etc. for V3 of my Bike Path Bridges.  Propably why it's called "BAT Essentials."

I don't know about privelages and all that though.  Uploading is a right created by Dirk and the Mods/Admins, expressed to all us Simtropians.  I'd understand getting rid of truly horrible things, like pirated lots with poor descriptions, just not every last BAT/Lot that we don't like.

[Bluebeard 0]

Your forgetting STEX isn't the only Exchange.:-)

[gshmails 534]

Unfortunately this will not fly.  I understand the frustration and appreciate the effort to keep the bowl clean, but it is direct contrast to this sites beliefs and rules about uploading on the STEX.  The moderators will deal with individual lots on an individual basis, and will never approve a "quality moderator" concept.

 When someone uploads copied content and spam lots, they are warned, then banned, when they come back, if they do it again, they are permanently banned.  This is the system.  We cannot force people to start threads, we cannot force quality in an open STEX. 

There are other sites where these quality control issues have been dealt with.  One of the things that separates Simtropolis is its open policy on uploading.   I know this causes some problems, but they are not new problems, and the quality lots always outshine the negative ones.  My suggestion is to look the other way, or report the lot to someone who can fix the problem.

Again, I appreciate the sentiment, and I am not turning my nose up at the idea.  It just isn't what this site is about. 

gshmails

[tungston 19]

If the upload doesn't meet your high standards, then move on to the next one.

[Jazzmaster 716]

Originally posted by: Bluebeard Your forgetting STEX isn't the only Exchange.:-)quote>

 

You hit the nail on the head.  From what I've read the BSC File Exchange has a quality control system, which prevents bad content (like pirated garbage) from getting in.  However, the Mods here have real lives too, people.  They don't have the time to be judges of what'll get a ten, and what will be flamed.

[Cleaner475 150]

If the upload doesn't meet your high standards, then move on to the next one. quote>

I agree trhere is nothing wrong with uploading something that you might not find good but other people do. If you don't like it just don't download it thats all it should be

You say Mjig that people should follow the sentence 'Only upload what you would Download' well thats probably what these people are actually doing

[Mr. Glamazon 9]

This is a really interesting topic to me, because there are times when I look at something and go, whaaaat? Ultimately we need to encourage more BAT journals and have the people who can BAT guide those who are learning, and even those who are learning help people who are more green to the software. In this way, everyone gets something out of it. As one person brought up, a harsher STEX may push users to other sites (though, I guess one question might be, if they were only ever going to upload rubbish then why would we want them here anyway?). Do we have a search feature to search by the number of stars an upload has? Like, search by quality? Because that might be something worth implementing. Piracy and jocking can definitely not be tolerated. More education is the bottom line. The people here are so brilliant, and so helpful. If someone has the desire to learn then they're already halfway there.

I guess being more on topic, though, the foundation of the idea is a good one. We need the quality.

Oh, I just got a thought! What if people posted something they planned to upload in a forum dedicated to constructive peer review?

[Krio 624]

Guys. Voar_Tok and I talked about this many hours and "closing" STEX or banning crap-loaders wont become reality. Though I would like to see crap-free STEX, it won't happen.

[Jasoncw 11,839]

If something is plagarized or not properly uploaded, or whatever, just report it.  Sometimes it might seem like it takes a long time for something to get deleted, but that's because the STEX moderators are handling the things personally, and are contacting and talking to the uploaders.  A few messages back and forth can take a few days.  Verifying that something is plagarized can take time too. 

But anyway, each person is being handled with personally and thoroughly, which is what you would expect if your upload was questionable.

Also, the STEX in general is being slimmed down, but it's very big, and is taking a long time.  I don't know the full details on this, but what has been brought up a lot is happening.

And finally, everyone go back and see what their first uploads were.  And think about what you would think about them if they were uploaded by someone else today.  And then think how you would have felt back then if your upload was deleted and you were told it wasn't good enough.

edit: geeze, a lot of people posted while I was writing!

[SimFox 800]

Well, this is a tricky issue. I also hate the fact that STEX is flooded with subpar context, but... (and this is a huge one!) If that is a price of freedom of expression we HAVE to pay it. Or, more precisely it is Dirk, who has to pay for it, I guess - storage space and bandwidth of downloads, things like that.

Quality is somewhat relative and illusive thing. Sufficient to say that I would have been tempted to ban some of the initiators of this measure based on their first attempts, and for the VERY same reasons they are listing. The question is would they go back to drawing boards bent on improving their work?? I believe more free atmosphere to call thing as you see them should be encouraged and that would be much more useful then that kind of repression system. Sugar and honey with all crappy fake "goodwill" messages that some very much loved users are pouring into forums in supernatural quantities are the real culprit for deterioration of quality as it completely negates the value of true compliment. But members seem to be hooked on them and when every time I point these incidents of remarkable bull***ting I get generally hounded down as a rude one. Truth will set you free, if you can handle it, naturally, or if you like little babies only want sweets you'll end up shapeless overweight diabetic. It is and SHOULD be everybody’s personal choice and to police these matters is wrong! When freedom dies creativity follows soon! Other sites with controlled upload system can survive ONLY because there is free STEX out there that keeps the flame that will suffocate very quickly if this mini police state will be established here as well!

Also who and on what criteria would judge content worthy of upload?

 

So, all of you should not hold a stick but think twice before writing “great progress so far” when you see a box. Be honest! And if that is your honest opinion, then... well, then we all doomed. But we’ll die free!  If you want to encourage person tell him what’s wrong with their work and some possible solution. This would be the very best test. Those who react negatively to it are those whose departure shall only benefit the community. Those mature and perseverant enough will stay and benefit it even more!

I very much hope this will NOT fly!

Again, sorry for long and angry message, but I guess most of you expected nothing else or less from me…

[beebs 129]

Plagiarism, flaming, spam and other such things are against the rules of the site. Uploading a functioning BAT that does not meet your personal standards of quality is not. And it never will be. It's been stated on numerous occasions by dirk himself that the exchange will never become an exclusive exchange, with uploads only from those people who are deemed to have "acceptable" quality content. As has been stated before, if you don't like something just move on to the next one.

[Jazzmaster 716]

Originally posted by: mjig_dudy Wise words.

The best part is that rather than discourage new members it actually encourages new members to improve and give their best, more so than the current situation.quote>

 

Oh, you think you're encouraging others by leaving comments?  Saying it's good, but needs improvement is one thing; however, when I uploaded my first version of the Bike Trail Series, you stated "you know this is the width of a motorway in game, right?", then I uploaded the second, of the same width, you said I "wasn't in a very stable state of mind".  So I completely redid each, making them narrower and much better.  Rather then leave a nice comment, all you had to say was "I could make these in my sleep, or when I'm dead, but I sure wouldn't waste my waking life making them."  I'm not saying I deserve praise for any of my uploads, but...

Acceptable: If you find an upload you do not like, you have three choices: constructive criticism, positive feedback, or not commenting at all.

That was a quote from the STEX comment rules.

[patriots_1228 51]

guys this isnt a LEX advertising thread

(not naming names)

even if this doesnt go through, which, there is a 99 percent chance it one, is it really that hard for a new person to start a BAT thread? everyone is acting like it is some really tough job. all you do is post pics, and read comments.

[Voar Tok 4]

I don't know why this issue continues to arise, but to keep discussing this is tantamount to wasting your time.

Originally posted by: MrCinatit

Nah, I believe the STEX should remain free from exclusion.

Even if there were to be a relaxed exclusion - where would we draw the line? Who would make the decisions - surely it would not be left to only a couple of people? If it were left to a large group of people, then would people be willing to wait for the item to be decided upon (a day? a week?)?

Yeah, there are some which are not quite up to task - but those very quickly fall off the front page and from memory. Believe it or not, but there were some poor uploads three years ago - but we chose not to remember those.

Freedom is the way to go.quote>

Originally posted by: ILL Tonkso

DOnt close the doors. Jeez if my early stuff (its really bad) wasnt allowed in i would have gotten nowhere! Its the STEX that pushed me further, the STEX comments, the increase in downloads as i progressed (better things get more, as more people want them, fact). ALL of my 3ds skills have stemmed from this site.quote>

Originally posted by: sam

I'm a strong supporter of the STEX remaining open to all. I think its an important part of the site and openness is one of its great strengths, not a weakness.quote>

Originally posted by: dirk

There is no "gate keeper" on the STEX in terms of moderating "quality".

You may have your own standards for your own creations, but you will not impose them on the rest of the community.

Because of the open nature of the STEX, there will naturally be a range of quality in the files that are uploaded. That is why we have a rating system.

There is no perfect system.  We are not out to create a perfect system.

We do not impose our will on others, but we will help others when we see an opportunity to do so.quote>

Now, unless an administrator disagrees, what is about to follow will be the last word on the subject.  I am going to personally reply to at least a few of you here.

patriots: There are not going to be people designated to determine quality.  There are two reasons for that.  First, quality is subjective.  Lots of stuff exists on the STEX that people like and use in their CJ's that I would never use.  Second, unless the group was endorsed by the admins, they'd be second tier to the STEX mods, which means that any uploader could appeal to a STEX mod and unless it violated another rule, we'd end up approving it.  This would render the group a lame duck.  Lame ducks aren't worth having around.

People are not going to be required to create a BAT thread.  While we highly encourage it, it isn't a requirement.

The only way to lose uploading rights is to abuse the STEX as determined according to the guidelines that Dirk gave the STEX mods when we were hired to do this job.

hamstertk: While you, along with numerous other people, would like to see things deleted faster, I will say that there is always a legitimate reason why when utter crap is sticking around. 

simfox: Your question about how we would judge quality is a most valid one.  One of the key things that I've noticed that people have always failed to suggest is a working method by which we can objectively define a subjective idea.  The answer typically left is, "well, I assume the mods and admins would do it."  That answer accomplishes nothing and furthermore indicates the the person proposing the idea hasn't truly thought the issue through enough.

With that said, I shall part with these words.  The STEX is an open exchange.  It is not the only exchange out there.  If you feel that the state of the STEX is something that truly bothers you, then expressing that to a staff member is perfectly acceptable.  However, the STEX's position was, is, and shall remain that it is an open exchange.  Don't bother with suggesting that we close or restrict it to some people who don't meet user-imposed quality criteria.  A closed exchange's goal is usually to preserve a standard of quality.  The STEX's goal is to provide a place for people to share their stuff with the community in an atmosphere where they are allowed to grow and learn without expecting them to be the next coming of Rembrandt or a Thomas Kinkade in the making.  Both systems have their positive aspects and their negative aspects.  The simple answer is that you will either have to make a decision that you can accept the differences and still enjoy it, or you can't.  Either way, the system isn't going to change.