"Too Many Sequels"

[LivingInThePast 364]

Today on Kotaku, a well-known game guru said there were too many sequels. Just another developer speaking his mind? Guess who the speaker was?

WILL WRIGHT himself.

Speaking with German site Stern, Will said...

Yeah, that is indeed a bad development. One would rather play it safe than be creative. Still, this seems to work. But for how much longer? Besides, there are simply too many games on the market. Lots of bad games are coming out because of this.quote>

Cough cough, Societies, cough cough? THE SIMS cough? In this sense, Will might choose to continue thinking creatively, probably even The Sims (and certainly SimCity) to EA. One quote by the author was particularly interesting:

I wonder if he thought like this when the fourth SimCity kicked around.quote>

Being the pessimist that I am...and don't flame me...I honestly think that The Sims 3 will be done without Will's watchful eye, SimCity will go to waste, and a feud might happen that will result in Will leaving EA, just as Garriott left EA after Origin was destroyed. Maybe Will could buy back SimCity and reraise it again. Maybe not.

[Poetic 0]

I guess he is right - some series just seem to be tried and tried again - using the same formula over and over. When I go to gaming sites today I usually look for a game that is coming out that will sweep me off my feet, only to find out the newer games are just rehashings of older games.

I agree 100% about what you said about Sims 3. I also agree about him leaving EA. EA just wants to sell things for profit - and sequels are more guaranteed to sell than new concepts. I think Wright was lucky to get the go ahead with Spore, untypical of EA. I think Wright misses the days that he was with Maxis making all kinds of new games - i.e. SimAnt, SimFarm, SimTown, etc...

I don't think Wright will have anything to do with Sims 3 either, just like he had little to nothing to do with SimCity 4. This does, however, make me worried about SimCity. I'll admit, I love SC4 and think it's perfect how it is - but I think it needs three features it doesn't have - 3d, no-grid & complete open source. That's really all I want with the series... if that game can be made then I'd be OK w/ no more SC's.

Either way, Wright seems like the type of guy that would like to have a 100 or more games under his belt by the time he retired, each one different and more creative than the last. I don't think he likes being the "Sims & SimCity" guy. Just my speculation based on his interviews & speeches.

Maybe future "SimCity's" will be different than this one. Like, maybe an expansion of Spore will increase the city stage to be as indepth as SC5 would have been. Either way, and I hate to say it, I think Wright is tired of SimCity and doesn't plan to make any more any time soon - for that matter I think he's tired of Sims too.

[Mr. Flibble 134]

While it's a non-sequitur to call Will uncreative, I think the point he fails to get when it comes to sequels is that we're not living in the days of fixed hardware specs and no good creative idea can be completely explored and fully realized in one release at one point in time. Does he really think SimCity 2000 should not have been made and the whole notion of improving past great titles is stupid? Frankly, Maxis had a part in inventing sequelitis with endless mediocre games all throughout the 90's based on the canned "Sim" formula, not to mention endless Sims dreck for the last 7 years.

What will "Sims 3" bring to the table, Will? More lifelike bodily function modelling and realistic furniture stores? Spore seems genuinely creative, but my lord after all these years in development it's just pushed back more and more and more and for what? I think Spore is based around another nice "toy" concept, the creature editor, and now they're stuck trying to find things to do with them once you've made one. They may move differently, but if the game plays out the same way every single time regardless of what you make, who will care?

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Sequels aren't necessarily bad IMHO - as long as the improvement reaches below the audiovisual surface, i.e. graphics and sound of the game.

Take EA's sports games, for example. Or most racing simulations. It's all the same, just with different names and graphics.

SimCity, however, is a game that's so complex that it's easy to implement not only new graphics or effects, but also new features, and to refine the basic principle further, especially since the game was restricted by limitations to the performance of average PC hardware at the time it was released. The computers of today may enable the programmers to implement better pathfinding calculations and more building variety because the average PC today simply has more RAM and a faster CPU. Future generations of computers might make the move to 3D feasible without sacrificing detail, who knows?

And beyond all technical aspects, there's much that could be added to a SimCity sequel which would make this sequel all worthwile - mixed-use zones, configurable tilesets & menus, surface water (maybe even a water "engine" that would enable players e.g. to build a dam and watch how a valley is filling and slowly evolving into an artificial lake), more advanced tunnel building, diagonal bridges, double-decker networks, rail with (optional?) electrification, proper public transport lines - there's still so much room for ideas within the huge SimCity universe that I don't see a lack of interesting possibilities for several new SimCity sequels.

Btw, SCS is the perfect example to show that the oh-so-creative "let's not make a 'linear' sequel but something totally new" approach can, in fact, be a huge step back.

[Poetic 0]

Originally posted by: seanivs Frankly, Maxis had a part in inventing sequelitis with endless mediocre games all throughout the 90's based on the canned "Sim" formula, not to mention endless Sims dreck for the last 7 years. quote>

The "Sim" formula (SimFarm, SimTown, SimIsle, etc...) in the 90's weren't sequels. The title "Sim" implied to fans of Maxis that the game allowed for customizability. Actually, I think that is what Wright is talking about now. All of the "Sim" games in the 90's were all unique different games - I think he wants to go back to that. As for "the Sims," there are only two of them... I know it seems like more because of all the expansions, but I think the expansions were EA's idea. If Wright had his way I bet there would have only been a few expansions (like 2) and one of them would have given more customization for players to make their own stuff instead of relying on expansions.

[purpledaddy 6]

I can appreciate the burnout factor that someone like Will Wright might be going through in terms of seeking a balance of acheiving creativity and originality w/out dropping what made the original or the latest rendtion appreciated in the first place.  As a fan, I feel that way about so many movie and entertainment sequels.  If the original was good, how can you, or why would you really improve upon it?  I do think computer/video games are slightly different though, as mentioned above, if at least b/c that the technology and possibilities change.  But even in those cases it still takes a vision to take advantage of evolving tech w/out giving just the same thing in prettier wraps.

[Mr. Flibble 134]

Originally posted by: Poetic

The "Sim" formula (SimFarm, SimTown, SimIsle, etc...) in the 90's weren't sequels. The title "Sim" implied to fans of Maxis that the game allowed for customizability. Actually, I think that is what Wright is talking about now. All of the "Sim" games in the 90's were all unique different games - I think he wants to go back to that.quote>

I didn't mean sequels in that it was the same game, obviously, with different graphics and button. It was the Sim formula itself I intended to bring up as just being a series of like-minded sequels that were either designed too hastily or with too little public input on what would be a fun topic to sim in a game. SimEarth I thought was great fun and has interesting potential in an updated modernized version. But, I guess Spore is going to have to suffice. SimAnt I liked also, but...ants? OK...a little hard to get inside the mind of an ant, but it was fun. SimLife, SimIsle, SimSafari, SimThis, SimThat....they all became a blur,  and none of the latter were fun to play over and over like SimCity and to a lesser degree SimEarth for me.

[LivingInThePast 364]

SimPark and SimGolf come off as examples? Will should buy back Spore to make his own company.

[Astroman 0]

What i,Think what Will Wright is trying to say that EA over use" the sim" franchise they just keep useing the same formula over and over agin like the sims 2 with all the  expansion pack it's just all the same but if Will Wright was in charge things would have been differnt.Remember the first the sims where thier was onliy one or two expansion pacs,Every three to seven months but when EA took over.It was every two months that they came out with a expansion pack.

[offgreen 1]

Was the sims 2 done under his "watchful eye" because that game, by itself with 15 expansion pack was dull and boring. Problem being I will not be investing in overpriced expansions. What will the sims 3 add anyway? A more stripped down base game to encourage sales? The game had some potential but they clearly blew it. Even SC4 did not have the same amount of buildings as SC3, or at least it seemed. It made up in other areas though, like so much custom content developing for it.

I'll still have to read a review on spore to see if its any good because right now its 100% hype. How many expansion packs are planned though?

[LivingInThePast 364]

@Astroman: No, the first Sims was done under EA. The reason is why at first EA thought The Sims would fail. Once sales were promising, the rate of exp. packs picked up.

[Bluebeard 0]

I think the main problem is greed and the bottom line.

     The more time you spend on a game the more it's going to cut into the bottom line.Large companies have to keep the stockholders happy.

     Will Wright and his company that he started in his garage are gone.So we got no choice but EA is calling the shots and Will Wright is just a passenger.

[Nienaber 0]

I feal that EA killed simcity, now its just a game with a fimilar name, its not even realy Simcity anymore, it almost when a friend moves away and you meet him again 5 years later and you have nothing in common anymore. SCS is now like a safe game other than a Creative game. I feal that SC4 is going to be the last great Simcity game. Like heres a similar thing, Did anyone play Runescape at any point, i did and now they have changed it into a Safe Online Envirnment and its just not fun anymore.

[Nienaber 0]

 SimCity has become what i would call a sellout game. im realy looking forward to CU and have been looking forward to Spore Sence 2004. and spore is under Wills eye. SimCity was good untill it was out of Wills hands, and The Sims is have ing the same effect. if i where him i would stop selling my ideas.

 

[Bluebeard 0]

Game designers are like artist but when you force the artist to rush for the sake of  making a buck you will end up with a Societies.

[joe2102001 19]

I think a lot of people forgot that Will Wright said himself that games are "too complicated"  to remain marketable and yes he is also the one working on Sims 3 so that in and of itself tells me its time for him to retire and let someone new take the reigns, everyone talks about the evil EA that overtook Maxis but think back Maxis AND Will Wright gladly handed the company over to EA.  Irregardless I don't expect anything evolutionary in the Sims 3 just the same stuff rehashed with slightly improved graphics ala EA Sports.  As for spore I hope it lives up to the hype but I for one am not into oversimplified dumbed down games that are meant to appeal to the lowest common denominator (SCS)  I personally can't wait for MC to become the new powerhouse that overtakes EA's Sims division.

[BIWDC 2,296]

Originally posted by: LivingInThePast Maybe Will could buy back SimCity and reraise it again. Maybe not.quote>

 

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I don't know about this as they would want a large amount of money for it & i don't

think he could make it.Then again they won't sell it unless it fails,societies i think

could be going that way but another good one could bring it back.

An example of failure was the james bond games,they gave up sold the last

couple of years of the license to activision.

[PhilsCafe 8]

I widely agree with...  purpledaddy, although it does apply to some games as well. For instance, technology and possibilities did not change for all the Sims 2 addons, some of them were even planned before the basic game was released. But altogether I do think that sequels aren't all that bad for PC games, they're rather desired (just look at the SimCity franchise).

[GMT 389]

too many sequels... thats right.

but then again, tell me what's not a sequel in a certain way!

we can't just go and invent a whole new genre, only a new kind of expirience.

So we gotta stick to what we can have within a genre.

And here, at this very point, you have always the same, only wrapped in different wrapping paper.

Let's take a look at the Need for Speed Series.

Pro Street is the... let me guess... 50th nfs? no, just kidding, but something above 10.

and? what you got? the only difference (apart from the quality of the graphics) are different courses and cars, maybe slightly enhanced handling thanks to better engines.

Then Underground came out. THE revolution, cuz it was a tuner game. And it was sold like pizza.

EA went on with this concept, UG2 came up, and suddenly other developpers hopped on this train (e.g. juiced). Any changes made to the NFS series since then? yes, but with the recent instalation they go backwards and screw it up.

A good proof to show that sequels are a hard task.

Or an example that we are more in touch with: SCS. Some nice changes to make the concept interesting yet again, but the result... no satisfaction for the most of us.

It's really hard to ballance a sequel in a way that it sells as good as the previous game.

The Settlers was one of those games that was able to keep it's level over a mere 8 titles.

The Sims (NOT! a bad game) is the bestsold game ever, not for nothing.

I think sequels themselves aren't a bad thing. Why re-inventing the wheel when it's still running smoothly?

It's just hard to, I know I'm repeating myself, find the ballance between new aspects and still stick to the original idea.

we're in game-industy pretty much where the music industry has been for years now. you can only re-compose what's been there already, to make it interesting again, but really new stuff is more or less impossible.

A car will always be a car, no matter how much the developer changes, same for a game. A city-building simulation will always be a city-building simulation, a racing game always a racing game.

Only the look and handling changes along the techincal possibilities. It's the quality as a result of the energy (and money) put into the development that makes the difference in between the genre.

Ok, I see why there're people that are fed up with nfs 10000, command and conquer tiberium wars redux 3, gta 134, sim city 1267, the sims 892, or in movies pirates of the carribbean 34, die hard v12.423beta and so on...

but people buy titles that have a certain quality and a certain gameplay these particular titles stand for (or at least promise).

Why should maxis start do develop and release a whole new city simulation game when they could do the changes to sim city aswell and stick with a name that sell rather good?

ok they did this with SCS and kinda screwed it up, but the game sells rather well cuz of it's a sim city, and people know about the quality the name stands for.

nfs pro street, imho not worth a dime, but it sells cuz it's a need for speed.

game industry seems to be conservative. it's safer. why play at high risk by throwing another title on the marked that might fail at all (in a commercial world where one wrong step brings you close to a buyout) when you can stick to a title that sells well over and over again?

[Sim-Maire 2]

SCS is a diiferent but good game, just waiting to futures patchs and add-ons and i play it time in time...

Sim City Societies is not Empire Earth 3, isn't it ?

[Muleskinner 0]

Interesting thread of conversation.  Personally, I think it's all about the money now, and the TRUE CREATIVITY that went into original game design has died.

[Namesys 3]

sim-maire has just remembered us about empire earth.

Do you all know how much i played Empire Earth I. It was awesome game. Then came here Empire earth II. It wasn't that bad but it was sort of "meh" game, and then for the last nail in the coffin the EE3 which was a catastrophe.

It was like going down the stairs. One by one. Each worse.

Do you think Simcity is going the same way as EE since now the SC4?

[Bookworm 1]

We're all forgetting something - this website was CREATED for SC4, the 4th game in a series. While the idea of 15 expansion packs is ludicrous and I think TS has definitely entered the stage where it's outliving its welcome, it is a good game at the core and we need to remember that. We also need to look at the fact that (1) SCS is the FIRST SimCity labeled game to do at all poorly - and even then, by normal gaming standards it's not a flop. Sure, it's mediocre, but not to the point that we can start chanting sequel curse just yet. Sims 3 - well, that we'll have to wait and see on, though personally I have low hopes.

[mittfh 7]

Talking of the various Sim games - SC4D is a hybrid...

An updated SimCity, with bits of three other games thrown in for good measure:

• The Sims (the MySims feature, and ability to import Sims from The Sims)
• Streets of SimCity (U Drive It - road-based vehicles)
• SimCopter (U Drive It - helicopters)

Perhaps one idea for a future city builder is to have two separate modes: the conventional mode, and then a 'stop the clock' mode which enables such things as roaming around at street level both as a pedestrian and a driver / pilot etc. Given EA's huge game franchise, if they had had the foresight they could have potentially integrated several different game franchises that could make use of city files (or even bolt-ons to the same program) - road racing game, train/boat/plane simulator (latter could make use of entire regions), wargame (e.g. C&C), and probably many others...

[SimRabbit 48]

Originally posted by: mittfh Talking of the various Sim games - SC4D is a hybrid...quote>

wait, now there is another sc called simcity D...

[purpledaddy 6]

I think arguably the most distinguishing feature of SC4 came from The Sims: regional play.  It looks very much based on the concept of individual playable lots on a neighborhood with action in a lot impacting play on another lot.  I wished Maxis would have developed this idea much further and made cities more distinct and contributive to the overall region.