China is largest greenhouse gas emmiter now

[Micah 16]

Please don't talk about each other in here. Talk about the topic only. (aka- sock puppet)

[Mr. Flibble 134]

Coming from someone who makes maps for a living, that's a pretty map indeed. It's also illustrative of how maps can be deceptive. Are we really supposed to believe that Australia pollutes more than China? Obviously it doesn't. But that's not the impression you'd get at first glance.

Please note, this is not a criticism of your comments. I know you mention that the real problem will come when China is polluting at the same per capita rate as the U.S...but do we keep giving China and India a pass and just say, "oh well, all industrializing nations go through this phase" until their combined pollution is 6-8 times that of the United States just because it would be unfair not to let them develop and pollute to the same per capita levels as we did?

[Sticksboi05 2]

News flash, it costs alot of money to build mass transit that isn't bus.  But I agree, enough building more roads, rail is what needs to be built.  We have the nation's second largest subway and it's "only" 86 stations.  It is really expensive to build rail though, the Dulles Airport extension alone is going to cost 1 billion dollars.   But honestly, the  people who are most at fault are the people who drive to work when they live  and work right on a transit line and people who have their huge SUV's and only have 1 or 2 people in it at most.  Such a waste. There are laot of people who skepticize over whether or not hybrids are worth the extra cost and they are (if you get the right car).  The Civic, Prius, Insight and Camry hybrids all save substantial  gas money and produce almost no emissions.

But the thing is, the rest of the country can't be like NYC because NYC is so dense that a subway was perfect but it's too expensie to build something that lazy, dumb people won't ride.  I mean the 2nd largest subway in the U.S. and we are able to squirt out 700,000 daily riders (and increasing).  Toronto's substantially smaller subway (no more than 40 stations) sees 800,000 + a day. That goes to show you American mindsets.  It needs to change, and fast.

[Jazzmaster 716]

Originally posted by: Sticksboi05 News flash, it costs alot of money to build mass transit that isn't bus.  But I agree, enough building more roads, rail is what needs to be built.  We have the nation's second largest subway and it's "only" 86 stations.  It is really expensive to build rail though, the Dulles Airport extension alone is going to cost 1 billion dollars.   But honestly, the  people who are most at fault are the people who drive to work when they live  and work right on a transit line and people who have their huge SUV's and only have 1 or 2 people in it at most.  Such a waste. There are laot of people who skepticize over whether or not hybrids are worth the extra cost and they are (if you get the right car).  The Civic, Prius, Insight and Camry hybrids all save substantial  gas money and produce almost no emissions.

But the thing is, the rest of the country can't be like NYC because NYC is so dense that a subway was perfect but it's too expensie to build something that lazy, dumb people won't ride.  I mean the 2nd largest subway in the U.S. and we are able to squirt out 700,000 daily riders (and increasing).  Toronto's substantially smaller subway (no more than 40 stations) sees 800,000 + a day. That goes to show you American mindsets.  It needs to change, and fast.

quote>

They've been considering building light rail and/or adding stations to the rail line where I live, currently owned/operated by CSX.  Then people could commute between Largo, Clearwater, Safety Harbor, or even inland parts of the Bay Area instead of those nicely engineered yet overcrowded 2-lane bridges.  Still, you're right, though.  We need to stop with the roads, and I see more and more local roads getting redone for construction almost every week.  Apparently mid-Pinellas County got all this money for road services.  This whole proposed "mass-transit" thing probably won't be up and running 'till '09, since they have to plan, order new cars/ locomotives, build stations, maybe make it a double track R.R. But it's a start, isn't it?

[ExiL3 10]

yes, now Americans can at last blame the Chinese when it comes to pollution!

seriously guys, it isn't really about who pollutes the most. Everybody have to change, and the Americans, the Europeans have to help countries like China and India (yes, help not blame).

Seanivs: hmm... another thing is, Americans have the money to change, but they have chosen not to for soooo many years... whilst Europe and other parts of the world have allied to control emmisions, USA have CHOSEN not to...

take care,

[Bluebeard 0]

Sometime around the 70's there a major gas shortage and that was a wake up call that the crap was about to hit the fan but as usual we Americans did nothing.

    You can flip your lip and hold up your little signs but when it comes time to do anything you can't be found.

[Barbarossa 51]

You can flip your lip and hold up your little signs but when it comes time to do anything you can't be found.quote>

This is a blanket statement and not at all accurate. While I am sure there are plenty of Lip Service Environmentalists, one should not assume that everyone is like that. Many people care and do their best to reduce the impact they personally have on the environment. They buy hybrids, they conserve water, they support environmental organizations, they vote. Faulty statements like this benefit no one.

Barbarossa

[patriots_1228 51]

How about we make a thread about those countries that pollute the least. they are the ones that deserve attention. IF we focused on what they did right, we could improve our own countries.

[Pixelrage 34]

Originally posted by: ExiL3 yes, now Americans can at last blame the Chinese when it comes to pollution!

seriously guys, it isn't really about who pollutes the most. Everybody have to change, and the Americans, the Europeans have to help countries like China and India (yes, help not blame).

Seanivs: hmm... another thing is, Americans have the money to change, but they have chosen not to for soooo many years... whilst Europe and other parts of the world have allied to control emmisions, USA have CHOSEN not to...

take care,quote>

actually, a lot of regular people here do a lot to help the environment. Can't blame us all because our government is one of the most evil in the world

[Bluebeard 0]

Barbarossa:

   Ok granted maybe 10 to 15 percent of the population is trying to do something but that still leaves alot of folks not doing nothing especially the elected officials whom are sleeping with oil companies.

   I have been around awhile and I do know what is and what isn't getting done.:-)

[Barbarossa 51]

Barbarossa:

Ok granted maybe 10 to 15 percent of the population is trying to do something but that still leaves alot of folks not doing nothing especially the elected officials whom are sleeping with oil companies.

I have been around awhile and I do know what is and what isn't getting done.:-)quote>

Well and good. I just wanted to point out that the comment was not accurate, and hence not fair. Like you, I have been around a while and I am involved in environmental issues. It is hard to be a Liberal in California and NOT be involved!

I agree with you that not enough is being done, anywhere. Pick a country and you will see the same thing I do. A lot of apathy, but also a lot of people who do care, but are powerless since it is common for the elected representatives to disregard the voters and follow the donations...

Barbarossa

[Sticksboi05 2]

Oh yeah, I mean our government executes hundreds of its own citizens a day right....

Intrusive and Arrogant? Yes. Very.

In need of an ego check? Yes.

Evil? No.

By the way, the Senate just approved a bill saying that all automakers must have all vehicles get at least 35 MPG by 2020 so they are trying to do stuff to cut down on emissions.

[Easy Bakes 253]

Originally posted by: Sticksboi05

By the way, the Senate just approved a bill saying that all automakers must have all vehicles get at least 35 MPG by 2020 so they are trying to do stuff to cut down on emissions.quote>

 

Will that be a realistic  35MPG or  35MPG on a Dynamometer 

becasue i dont know about you  but i drive on a Dynamometer to work every day.

[Bluebeard 0]

So what is the  excuse as to why this 35mpg couldn't have been years ago?.The bottom line is we had 30 years and nothing till now was done.

    The reason is the tree huggers are becoming a very powerful group thus anyone running for public office wants the tree huggers votes.

[Pixelrage 34]

Originally posted by: Sticksboi05 the Senate just approved a bill saying that all automakers must have all vehicles get at least 35 MPG by 2020 so they are trying to do stuff to cut down on emissions.quote>

kind of too late for that now, this should have been put in place in the 1970s. And yes, it was possible to do.

Pretty sad to think how dangerous this planet is going to be by 2040-2050. Ignorance is bliss, as long as those oil tycoons lived a rich lifestyle and everyone got their sweetheart deals, nothing else matters.

[Bluebeard 0]

Did you know everytime we fill up our vehicles we support a Terroist?.So to blame China as the problem is just wrong.

   We were once the light of hope and now the light has burned out replaced with a ATM machine.

[Jazzmaster 716]

In Futurama it said oil wells ran dry in 2030 or 2032, something like that. Anyway, in a comic-show like that, I wasn't laughing. Know why? The way things are going...it could very well be the truth.

[goddygoodman 0]

i come from China, living in the largest city of the country, Shanghai. I don't have a car and ride my bike between my office and my house, there are also thousands ppl like me, riding bike every day. and most other ppl take mass transport system every day, bus, metro and even train. 80% of us still living without personal cars, not even one car.

to myself, i am keeping reducing to use plastic bag and even not using AC. but i also need to make a living by my puter, to code and to write docs. it costs electricity, so it produces greenhouse gas.

alrite, if US or other EU countries can grant me a visa to move over, i m surely glad to go, lol, dat's kidding.

This is my country, i'm deeply loving her. i also love the earth. think this not about any country, blaming any country is useless. it's about anyone of us who living on the earth.

[Easy Bakes 253]

Originally posted by: goddygoodman i come from China, living in the largest city of the country, Shanghai. I don't have a car and ride my bike between my office and my house, there are also thousands ppl like me, riding bike every day. and most other ppl take mass transport system every day, bus, metro and even train. 80% of us still living without personal cars, not even one car.

to myself, i am keeping reducing to use plastic bag and even not using AC. but i also need to make a living by my puter, to code and to write docs. it costs electricity, so it produces greenhouse gas.

alrite, if US or other EU countries can grant me a visa to move over, i m surely glad to go, lol, dat's kidding.

This is my country, i'm deeply loving her. i also love the earth. think this not about any country, blaming any country is useless. it's about anyone of us who living on the earth.quote>

 

Well said

Welcome to Simtrpolis.

[newy2 0]

It's pretty scary when you think bout it ay? China isn't a developed country and is the largest gas emmiter. Just imagine when Chinas gas emissions per capita is as high as developed countries like the US

Developed countries are already having problems cutting down their own emissions, imagine  how much harder its gonna be to reduce emissions from booming countries like china and India that need resources to fuel their rapid growing economy.

[Cody02 0]

Oh no! What are we going to do? Lets all stop grilling in the backyard, and using air conditioners. And instead of driving clunky, smokin, automobiles we should walk or ride bicycles. And show the movie An Inconvenient Truth to every highschooler in the nation.

Al Gore the man who "invented" the Internet.

[commanderkai 38]

Originally posted by: Cody02 Oh no! What are we going to do? Lets all stop grilling in the backyard, and using air conditioners. And instead of driving clunky, smokin, automobiles we should walk or ride bicycles. And show the movie An Inconvenient Truth to every highschooler in the nation.

Al Gore the man who "invented" the Internet.

quote>

Well the last part of it is well underway. Boring movie too

[crazyyaya 4]

Al gore never said he invented the internet.

[Dark_Jedi06 13]

Originally posted by: patriots_1228 Bluebeard-steroetyping eh?

i hate to tell you, but a large portion of america isnt fat or lazy. I think you may be a sock puppet, but ill keep that to myself. What you said about the rich is true though, nowadays you need to be dirty rich and extremely popular among wealthy people to run for office. And most arent self center, thats why we spend billions a year helping other countries. if we were self centered, all of our soldiers wouldnt be putting there lives on the line to stabilize a country they have nothing to do with.

As for pollution, Boston isnt as heavily polluted as new york or LA. on a clear day from the top of the pru you can see for miles.quote>

The United States government does spend billion dollars on other countries, however, most of that aid is in the form of a loan, with interest, that we expect to get back.

The United States people on the other hand donate the most money then any other country and are extremely generous, contrary to what Bluebeard has stated, only a few of our citizens, the elite, are "fat, lazy, greedy and self-centered".

[Easy Bakes 253]

What about manbearpig?

[Mr. Glamazon 9]

I know it's unrealistic, but I want to touch on most of the topics presented in this thread, because only a few aspects of each issue are being presented.  I'll try and use facts and I'll try and present both sides.

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zD1QGNsRg74"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zD1QGNsRg74" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

I thought you might find the video interesting.  I feel brainwashed after watching it, but it was brought up and piqued my curiosity.

I would like to point out a few things, they're kind of random, but they're supposed to open your horizons a little about the issue.

40% of all imported goods are made in China.  Strangely, only 15% of the $1.7 Trillion in imports comes from them.

Another thing that many people never see is what the U.S. exports to China.  We send them whole container ships full to the brim of computer parts and old mechanicals that will be broken down and "recycled."  In an industrial city that handled the bulk of this industry, the heavy metal pollution in the river was 2000 (that's not a typo) times the healthy limit. 

In the past few years China has planted nearly 2Bn trees in preparation for the 2008 olympics. 

Their huge mindset turnaround was triggered this year when it was revealed that in 2006 they lost nearly $800Bn in revenues because of pollution alone.  The number of people who died as a direct result of pollution was nearly a million.   Also, because of pollution they are looking at a %37 decline in the  production of majour crops by 2050 (wheat, rice, corn... the basis of nearly every diet.  People eat all of these things in various forms, and one of them is meat, also...)

In terms of what they're doing to reverse the issue, a new hybrid car has been rolled out en masse that costs around $5,000 U.S, with 43 MPG- it's called the Wuling Sunshine.   You can search for various Chinese hybrids.

Five cities able to support 500,000 people have been planned besed on a test run called DONGTAN ECO CITY.  It's nearly carbon neutral.

Oh!  And here's another one out of china- Bamboo clothing.  It's as soft as silk and grows so incredibly fast.  Roughly a foot a day.

So those are some plusses and minuses or pros and cons, and what not. 

AS far as capitalism is concerned, the idea is only an idea.  How the idea is exploited makes all the difference.  Right now capitalism is being used to take advantage of people across the globe.  If it were applied in a more responsible manner, as in the example of AMERICAN APPAREL (look them up), a world of good can come of it. 

While we're on the subject of capitalism, I think I'd like to take a stab at Wal-Mart. I really hate Wal-Mart, but I'd like to offer points to consider on this one too.   Consider, if it weren't for the rise of Wal-Mart,  40% of the American people would visit a supermarket once every nine or ten days.  Now, the same group of people, many at the poverty line, have access on a weekly basis to feed their families.  Also consider, the family who can't afford to go clothes shopping.  Isn't a clean image vital to attaining a job and community respect?  People who weren't able to go clothes shopping held jobs that reflected their image.  Just food for thought.

Ultimately the thing about capitalism is you get from it what you put into it.  One can whine all day about how the world is ending as a result of capitalism, but did that person show where their loyalties lie?  It's great to say something, but did this person actually purchase a product they believed in, instead of the cheap on next to it?  Companies don't manufacture an ailing product, so put your support behind the responsible choice.  It's simple.  Purchase the product with recyclable packaging, or purchase the product that's made with US workbase, or purchase the product that's biodegradable. 

If one knows that buying from a department store will result in markups, why buy there when one can order from a company that's U.S. based and far cheaper?

There was mention of the United Arab Emirates, and their pollution has been just as irresponsible, albeit far more convincingly shrouded.  Consider more than 300 new towers are under construction right now.  How much pollution is created just in building them?  Consider the energy it will take to keep such towers cool in the desert, especially ones clad top to bottom in glass as the ones in the UAE are.  Sure, they've looked into a short monorail to get from one end of Sheik Zayed road to another, but a whole nation of rich aristocracy is a nation of people with fleets of cars, mountains of international plane tickets, a mall that is so large it has a man made mountain of snow for them to go skiing in.  The UAE represents the very worst of the problems at the heart of the climate change issue. 

Now, a little about Americans:

The United States isn't the best.  I'm glad someone pointed that out.  We're flagging in science and our infrastructure hasn't been updated in nearly fourty years.

30% of the citisenry here is obese or morbidly so, and 73% of the citisenry is overweight, Between %63 and %67 of those are adults.

I think it's worth noting that the U.S. is run by the people (this is very important, because while I'm terribly anti-government, they can't be blamed for everything. Think of the government as the guy that will always be in the wrong, no matter what.)  Think of all the interest-groups pulling and pushing on every little decision made here.  Did you know that it took nearly twenty years for the Everglades to be preserved, and another twenty to reverse the damage to it because nearly everyone in Florida had an opinion on the issue?

As it stands rtight now in this country, it takes nearly five years for an environmental issue to get on a ballot or in the Senate, and another five to  actually get underway or completed.  The feasibility studies, the environmental impact studies, the solitary field mouse that could potentially derail an entire project because it happens to be endangered... the list goes on.

Americans are the most generous people in the world.  I promise I'm not lying. 

While we come up dead last in per capita giving, it's because our incomes are so much larger.  But collectively, we are the biggest givers int eh world.  In 2003, it was $16.2Bn.  Private aid is never calculated into the figure, and those contributions DOUBLE the published projections.

Consider this - in 2005 when the U.S. suffered the worst year of natural disasters, most likely in the nations history, our total charitable giving was nearly $28Bn.

The comments about the 35 MPG regulation are spot on.  In the EU, a 35MPG mandate was twenty years ago.  They're very nearly at 60MPG's now, and here we are limping along at 24 mandated miles to the gallon. 

As far as peak oil production, consder that we're expected to reach it by 2030. 

Also consider that the true cost of oil dependence, without subsidies or externalities os about $800Bn a year, or $10.03 a gallon.  Would people buy it without the subsidies or externalities?

Goddygoodman really summed everything up incredibly well.  People have the wrong mindset.  We all contribute, we all need to work together.  Maybe all of these random tidbits will put new ideas in ye heads.  I read a lot because the environment is my passion, and I like to share what i know.  A lot of times people have the passion, but they don't have the knowledge.  So I guess maybe think abotu all of these things when considering who pollutes worse, or who spends more, or blah blah blah.  Maybe ultimately what matters is finding a weak point and doing what's right and fixing it.

"I wondered why somebody didn't do something about it, but then I realised I am somebody."

  

[Ryusuke516 1]

Originally posted by: newy2 

It's pretty scary when you think bout it ay? China isn't a developed country and is the largest gas emmiter. Just imagine when Chinas gas emissions per capita is as high as developed countries like the US

Developed countries are already having problems cutting down their own emissions, imagine  how much harder its gonna be to reduce emissions from booming countries like china and India that need resources to fuel their rapid growing economy.quote>

China is the 3rd MOST DEVELOPED contry on earth. The U.S. is under developed compared to CHina. China is one of the MOST technologically advanced countries. The U.S. would be the biggest greenhouse gas emiter if it was as developed as China. In terms of capita, they are one of the least polluting contries on earth. The U.S. is nowhere close to being as developed, China is at least 10 times MORE developed than the U.S.

The above message was edited for rudeness and to make the quotes work -- Ski

[manimal_uk 0]

"The comments about the 35 MPG regulation are spot on.  In the EU, a 35MPG mandate was twenty years ago.  They're very nearly at 60MPG's now, and here we are limping along at 24 mandated miles to the gallon.  "

Maybe if Gas/Petrol was the same price in the US that it is in the EU then cars would have to be more economic and cleaner.

Petrol is nearly £1 a litre here in the UK, my car does 50mpg thankfully.

1 UK gallon = 4.546 litre 1 US gallon = 3.785 litre

[BurroDiablo 222]

Yeah, Petrol prices are pretty bad at the moment but I don't think i've ever had a car that does under 50mpg.

Look at this though-

'People in most European nations such as Italy and the United Kingdom pay five or even six dollars for each gallon of gas.  In comparison, paying just over two dollars for gas in the United States doesn’t seem like that much.'

So we pay TRIPLE that of what the US pays? Thats frigging crazy!

-edit-

Article- Clicky

[MrFingers 0]

Good. Now all China has to do is hold firm for 5-10 years and by that point the planet will have started cooling again due to the sun's natural cycle. Then we can start castrating Al Gore and Co. Oh boy, I can't wait. I'm going to have his testicles.