Is it Possible or Have we Reached The End?

[MrVegetable 2]

Well...Teirusu managed to unlock 3 extra terrain tools a long time ago, yet none of them worked properly or had lasting effects. If we can finally unlock those tools to the fullest, we can finally have lakes on raised groud!

[MrVegetable 2]

Well...Teirusu managed to unlock 3 extra terrain tools a long time ago, yet none of them worked properly or had lasting effects. If we can finally unlock those tools to the fullest, we can finally have lakes on raised groud!

[JanYpe 17]

*Hums*

This is the end

Beautiful friend

This is the end

My only friend, the end

Of our elaborate plans, the end

Of everything that stands, the end

No safety or surprise, the end

I'll never look into your eyes...again

[JanYpe 17]

*Hums*

This is the end

Beautiful friend

This is the end

My only friend, the end

Of our elaborate plans, the end

Of everything that stands, the end

No safety or surprise, the end

I'll never look into your eyes...again

[onlyplace4 605]

I fervently believe that SC4 could be widely expanded to give it a fresh appeal. Look at the amazing work of the NAM that gives transport options Maxis could only have dreamed of. And then there is the development of the CAM over at SC4D which will again enhance the gameplay to levels Maxis and EA never imagined. There is huge potential to expand the game, perhaps a third party expansion pack? Whilst we can't alter the core program, we can surely add to it with dll's to increase it's complexity, and perhaps cure some of the many bugs in the current game engine.

[onlyplace4 605]

I fervently believe that SC4 could be widely expanded to give it a fresh appeal. Look at the amazing work of the NAM that gives transport options Maxis could only have dreamed of. And then there is the development of the CAM over at SC4D which will again enhance the gameplay to levels Maxis and EA never imagined. There is huge potential to expand the game, perhaps a third party expansion pack? Whilst we can't alter the core program, we can surely add to it with dll's to increase it's complexity, and perhaps cure some of the many bugs in the current game engine.

[Spinmaster 75]

It does need a major shift for a true full sequel. Beyond just "add this" and "fix that" little features, but sweeping changes - reinvention - of the experience, to make it worthy of a full new game, not just an "expansion pack." But to do so without ignoring the things that made the series increasingly realistic and successful for 18+ years... is hardly impossible.

1. Leave the grid.

2. 3D? If it can be done without sacrificing too much detail, then definitely... otherwise, 2.5D ok, but perhaps at least provide "a way" to view your city from street-level, even if you can't build or interact with it.

3. Make it easier to play for those who don't like micromanagement. No, not by taking it away, but by adding features to allow the game to optionally "take over" many of those tasks. I could envision, for example, an education director (formerly known as an "adviser") being tasked with managing the funding of all the schools for me automatically and even proposing to build a new school when needed - including where it should go. A transportation director proposing expansions and upgrades to existing networks, maybe even proposing new transit routes. Public safety directors to increase police and fireman funding, personnel, vehicles, even propose new station. Many others.

3b. This could even lead to a political aspect - directors can be fired or thrown out by the public (education rating tanks, the education director gets fired), new ones elected, and their effectiveness could vary... as well as their corruptness.

4. Ok, a "social aspect" would have been a fine addition, particularly to have the people actually use commercial services, parks, tourist areas... "venues" in SC:S terms, and the growable building styles and/or props could even reflect the societies growing within my city. This would put some "care about the societies" into the game, without making it the point of the game. "Societies" should be the affect, not the cause.

5. Road expansions - adding individual lanes to existing roads to increase capacity without affecting speed.

6. Weather and varying climates and ecosystems to deal with.

7. Optional scenarios return. Disaster recovery, overhaul a city to win an Olympics bid, decrease average commute time by x%, fix the pollution problems, balance the budget... endless possibilities here, but optional is still the key.

8. The ability to view others' cities real-time over the internet or a LAN. Probably not build or interact, but at least "visit" them by private or public invitation. Would require a decent internet connection, sure, but certainly do-able with a thin-client approach I think.

... many others I've thought about from time to time, just not on my cortex right now (I haven't even had coffee yet)

There are many broad changes that could be made for a new addition to the franchise. Not just little things to make an SC4.5, but major changes to the experience, to make the new game worthy of calling it SC5. We're not at "the end" by any means, particularly as technology progresses. Not just in our own computers, but new innovations in programming occur all the time. New algorithms, new paradigms, breakthroughs in everything from graphics to AI... no, it's not the end by a long shot, even if EA did give up on it in favor of Candyland.

So who will extend the legacy? It's a big hole EA has left. Someone will fill it eventually, there is a huge market being left behind by SC:S, and a LOT that can be done to create a true successor to SC4, satisfy the loyal fans of the franchise, and draw in lots of fresh new players at the same time (even the "it's too complex" crowd). My only question is, will EA realize this first? Or will a competitor?

[Spinmaster 75]

It does need a major shift for a true full sequel. Beyond just "add this" and "fix that" little features, but sweeping changes - reinvention - of the experience, to make it worthy of a full new game, not just an "expansion pack." But to do so without ignoring the things that made the series increasingly realistic and successful for 18+ years... is hardly impossible.

1. Leave the grid.

2. 3D? If it can be done without sacrificing too much detail, then definitely... otherwise, 2.5D ok, but perhaps at least provide "a way" to view your city from street-level, even if you can't build or interact with it.

3. Make it easier to play for those who don't like micromanagement. No, not by taking it away, but by adding features to allow the game to optionally "take over" many of those tasks. I could envision, for example, an education director (formerly known as an "adviser") being tasked with managing the funding of all the schools for me automatically and even proposing to build a new school when needed - including where it should go. A transportation director proposing expansions and upgrades to existing networks, maybe even proposing new transit routes. Public safety directors to increase police and fireman funding, personnel, vehicles, even propose new station. Many others.

3b. This could even lead to a political aspect - directors can be fired or thrown out by the public (education rating tanks, the education director gets fired), new ones elected, and their effectiveness could vary... as well as their corruptness.

4. Ok, a "social aspect" would have been a fine addition, particularly to have the people actually use commercial services, parks, tourist areas... "venues" in SC:S terms, and the growable building styles and/or props could even reflect the societies growing within my city. This would put some "care about the societies" into the game, without making it the point of the game. "Societies" should be the affect, not the cause.

5. Road expansions - adding individual lanes to existing roads to increase capacity without affecting speed.

6. Weather and varying climates and ecosystems to deal with.

7. Optional scenarios return. Disaster recovery, overhaul a city to win an Olympics bid, decrease average commute time by x%, fix the pollution problems, balance the budget... endless possibilities here, but optional is still the key.

8. The ability to view others' cities real-time over the internet or a LAN. Probably not build or interact, but at least "visit" them by private or public invitation. Would require a decent internet connection, sure, but certainly do-able with a thin-client approach I think.

... many others I've thought about from time to time, just not on my cortex right now (I haven't even had coffee yet)

There are many broad changes that could be made for a new addition to the franchise. Not just little things to make an SC4.5, but major changes to the experience, to make the new game worthy of calling it SC5. We're not at "the end" by any means, particularly as technology progresses. Not just in our own computers, but new innovations in programming occur all the time. New algorithms, new paradigms, breakthroughs in everything from graphics to AI... no, it's not the end by a long shot, even if EA did give up on it in favor of Candyland.

So who will extend the legacy? It's a big hole EA has left. Someone will fill it eventually, there is a huge market being left behind by SC:S, and a LOT that can be done to create a true successor to SC4, satisfy the loyal fans of the franchise, and draw in lots of fresh new players at the same time (even the "it's too complex" crowd). My only question is, will EA realize this first? Or will a competitor?

[Braxton 0]

Spinmaster, great post! You're correct in there are many things they can do to improve the game and make it easier for new players to get in to it.

The biggest improvement for a true SC5 would be to get rid of that grid that's been used since the beginning of the franchise. A lot can be done with transit options, new and crazier interchanges can be made, and everything you said and more. With Dual/Quad Core CPUs, more intense things can be done by the computer to improve gameplay.

Anyone that says there isn't anything they can do to improve on SC4 is crazy. There's plenty to do and always will be.

[Braxton 0]

Spinmaster, great post! You're correct in there are many things they can do to improve the game and make it easier for new players to get in to it.

The biggest improvement for a true SC5 would be to get rid of that grid that's been used since the beginning of the franchise. A lot can be done with transit options, new and crazier interchanges can be made, and everything you said and more. With Dual/Quad Core CPUs, more intense things can be done by the computer to improve gameplay.

Anyone that says there isn't anything they can do to improve on SC4 is crazy. There's plenty to do and always will be.

[Spinmaster 75]

Now after my coffee, the other major thought I had about it before: true integration with other simulations.

The Sims: a Sims character can actually enter the city. Yes, I know we have this already but My Sim is nothing more than a mindless clone. I'm seeing the Sim's personal character from The Sims influencing how he sees and interacts with the city. And experiences gathered in the city enhance the character back in The Sims.

Amusement park: build your own amusement park ala RCT3 - and put it in your city. Do the people there like it? And wouldn't it be nice to see your city's skyline from atop your killer rollercoaster? I was incensed when, after doing everything necessary to get it, I finally earned the "tourist trap" reward for the first time, expecting my own Disneyland - only to discover it was just a damn South of the Border style gift shop. Is that a giraffe or a long-neck chihuahua, by the way? (p.s. just in case someone's not aware, my "South of the Border" reference is not about Mexico; it's a very cheesy Mexican-themed tourist trap in South Carolina, with cheap and mostly goofy souvenirs and other oddities that have virtually nothing to do with Mexico itself... I'm not sure, but I think the "tourist trap" in SC4 is a direct homage to it, actually).

Pick-a-tycoon: actually many/most of the "___ Tycoon" games would be wonderful add-ons. Even Mall Tycoon, Prison Tycoon... Trailer Park Tycoon. Design your mall, prison, trailer park, airport, etc.... and then plunk it into your city somewhere, to see how people react to it, how it affects your city, etc.... Imagine your Sim enters your city and interacts with your amusement park, the airport, maybe visits a friend in prison - and his mother in the trailer park.

Even first-person action games would be a whole lot of fun with your own city as a back-drop. Imagine racing around in a Ferrari, on the streets of your own city. Yes, I know much graphical detail would have to go bye-bye for something like this, but only while actually driving, or shooting it out with Combine forces, or.... my oh my.

But the key to it all is allowing each such game to interface with each other, or with the city as a "hub" perhaps ... but still be enjoyable all by itself. The city simulation should be about building cities, only. The airport simulation should be about building an airport, only. But cities do need airports - why not add the ability to put them together?

This is a much bigger idea than just making the next successor to SC4, especially since most of the best simulation games I have in mind are from EA's competitors. But SC:S is definitely a big step away from it. EA really missed something here, I think.

[Spinmaster 75]

Now after my coffee, the other major thought I had about it before: true integration with other simulations.

The Sims: a Sims character can actually enter the city. Yes, I know we have this already but My Sim is nothing more than a mindless clone. I'm seeing the Sim's personal character from The Sims influencing how he sees and interacts with the city. And experiences gathered in the city enhance the character back in The Sims.

Amusement park: build your own amusement park ala RCT3 - and put it in your city. Do the people there like it? And wouldn't it be nice to see your city's skyline from atop your killer rollercoaster? I was incensed when, after doing everything necessary to get it, I finally earned the "tourist trap" reward for the first time, expecting my own Disneyland - only to discover it was just a damn South of the Border style gift shop. Is that a giraffe or a long-neck chihuahua, by the way? (p.s. just in case someone's not aware, my "South of the Border" reference is not about Mexico; it's a very cheesy Mexican-themed tourist trap in South Carolina, with cheap and mostly goofy souvenirs and other oddities that have virtually nothing to do with Mexico itself... I'm not sure, but I think the "tourist trap" in SC4 is a direct homage to it, actually).

Pick-a-tycoon: actually many/most of the "___ Tycoon" games would be wonderful add-ons. Even Mall Tycoon, Prison Tycoon... Trailer Park Tycoon. Design your mall, prison, trailer park, airport, etc.... and then plunk it into your city somewhere, to see how people react to it, how it affects your city, etc.... Imagine your Sim enters your city and interacts with your amusement park, the airport, maybe visits a friend in prison - and his mother in the trailer park.

Even first-person action games would be a whole lot of fun with your own city as a back-drop. Imagine racing around in a Ferrari, on the streets of your own city. Yes, I know much graphical detail would have to go bye-bye for something like this, but only while actually driving, or shooting it out with Combine forces, or.... my oh my.

But the key to it all is allowing each such game to interface with each other, or with the city as a "hub" perhaps ... but still be enjoyable all by itself. The city simulation should be about building cities, only. The airport simulation should be about building an airport, only. But cities do need airports - why not add the ability to put them together?

This is a much bigger idea than just making the next successor to SC4, especially since most of the best simulation games I have in mind are from EA's competitors. But SC:S is definitely a big step away from it. EA really missed something here, I think.

[Skyfire2275 23]

Well the most obvious improvement to me is to get rid of the grid and let us make streets/roads/etc... and buildings at any angle. A second, related, improvement is a total reworking of the transportation network and how it works to allow us to create many intersection configurations, highway interchanges, bridges with stuff underneath, tunnels and bridges at any angle, etc.

A third would be to have water that wasn't just at sea level, ie: ability to create waterfalls, etc... Another nice one would be snow and snow removal which is a big part of running a city in northern climates. And of course the flooding that comes with it every spring. And weather to some extent at least.

It would also be nice to have even more control over what gets built in zoned land... and fix that stupid "make historical" option that DOES NOT work.

And there is a ton more stuff that probably isn't worth typing out.

[Skyfire2275 23]

Well the most obvious improvement to me is to get rid of the grid and let us make streets/roads/etc... and buildings at any angle. A second, related, improvement is a total reworking of the transportation network and how it works to allow us to create many intersection configurations, highway interchanges, bridges with stuff underneath, tunnels and bridges at any angle, etc.

A third would be to have water that wasn't just at sea level, ie: ability to create waterfalls, etc... Another nice one would be snow and snow removal which is a big part of running a city in northern climates. And of course the flooding that comes with it every spring. And weather to some extent at least.

It would also be nice to have even more control over what gets built in zoned land... and fix that stupid "make historical" option that DOES NOT work.

And there is a ton more stuff that probably isn't worth typing out.

[The_Dalai_Llama 15]

So much can be improved on and there's been a lot of good ideas over the years ranging from changing weather patterns that affect the city to more complex tranportation networks to advanced terraforming features like active erosion.

Improving graphics is actually one of the last things people mention here... we're more about the gameplay and the micromanagement aspects, even if we like the occasional eye-candy.

[The_Dalai_Llama 15]

So much can be improved on and there's been a lot of good ideas over the years ranging from changing weather patterns that affect the city to more complex tranportation networks to advanced terraforming features like active erosion.

Improving graphics is actually one of the last things people mention here... we're more about the gameplay and the micromanagement aspects, even if we like the occasional eye-candy.

[Woulfe 1]

- Grid Options - If we can't get rid of the grid entirely then just make the grid smaller, a lot smaller, like 1x1 inches, so curves could be made a lot smoother and so forth.....

Or whatever works best for folks to make buildings & so forth snap to an angle so they don't have to be perfectly square or whatever have you....

I think that's more do-able if they tell us that there is no way the grid can go bye bye, just make the grid smaller.....

- W -

* If you know what I mean that is *

[Jman47 0]

I think that a game should be just like SC4, but with the societal energies being put in scs, having the best of both worlds with micromanagment and society features would be the best.

[Goldfish4209 9]

Well, we can always scale things up and make the grid relatively smaller. But then someone's going to have to figure out how to hack into the game and change the size of the city tile.

[megalopolitan 0]

The graphics could see a substaintial improvement.

Beyond that, there are literally 100's of great ideas here in the forums that, put together, would make SC5 without so much as a lot of thought by a developer. Quite a few long threads exist on the subject.

If anyone makes a game like that I will buy it.

[waway625 72]

as for me, the only thing im hoping for right now is for someone to crack the code/engine and allow us to play a larger city tile (or the entire region at once)..

curent hardware (Core2Duos and the 2gig of ram and the 8800s) are able to handle it anyway so at least allow for a larger city tile (say 4 times larger) would make me really happy

[JFman00 1]

1) Make it POSSIBLE to leave the grid. (I like grids, but building anything on a diagonal is butt-ugly)

2) Realism: Cellphone Towers, substations, underground aquifiers, etc.

3) Natural Resources (why are cities where they are?)

4) Random building generator, crazy, but if possible would break up the monotony

5) Proper scale

6) True region play (more integration between cities, pollution accros borders)

7) Just realized this list is endless.

[Jazzmaster 716]

I've been pondering this for a while now, and I don't think there's too much to improve on in the game based on the tens of thousand of custom content files, though admittitly I think where the game could improve is something we the fans haven't "customized" yet (i.e., those unhackable FSH files).