Simtropolis 1000

[gop 0]

This'll be awesome, I think it's great that you guys are doing this, it'll be like a revolution for sim city, thpough hoew are you actually going to MAKE this into a real video game? Not to be pessimistic but seems a little complicated, then, on the other hand, out of 173,000 ,members, there has to be at least a couple proffesional game designers. based on your ideas this relly looks like It'll turn out to be great!

[Filchner 0]

Great

You got my support!

[Ririri3201 0]

Having seen the preview of SimCity Societies and reading all the comments, I support this project right away. There are a lot of ideas for the project going around on this forum, which is good, but we have to get organized. Someone, I think the topic starter, has to take the lead and gather people around him that can build the game and contribute to it. After reading that a lot of people won't buy SimCity Societies, maybe there will be some way to gather funds for this project, because we cannot let the title "SimCity" be lost in the myriad of simplified games that are coming out in the future. Let's organize and show the game world what we really mean by a realistic city builder!

[mayor_potter 0]

Originally posted by: Ririri3201 Having seen the preview of SimCity Societies and reading all the comments, I support this project right away. There are a lot of ideas for the project going around on this forum, which is good, but we have to get organized. Someone, I think the topic starter, has to take the lead and gather people around him that can build the game and contribute to it. After reading that a lot of people won't buy SimCity Societies, maybe there will be some way to gather funds for this project, because we cannot let the title "SimCity" be lost in the myriad of simplified games that are coming out in the future. Let's organize and show the game world what we really mean by a realistic city builder!quote>

 

Yes, you've got the idea! And, as you said, we need a leader - maybe not joerg, though -

I propose we start with 3 teams, first team will be programmers (the area i have no expertise in), second team will work closest to the programmers and be our logic team, these guys will come up with the numbers that the programers can work around, finally a content creation team, these guys will make 3d content and textures and just pretty much everything and just keep doing it until the coders are done.  The basic idea is that all 3 teams can work simutaneously becuase we will make the program as open source as possible so all the models we make in max can be directly imported to the game as the coding continues.quote>

I think, for a leader, we need someone who understands all the aspects of computer programming, not just someone who had the best idea in the history of SimCity. Are there such SimCity fans out there? Hopefully. We need these people to get the project moving. If there are, please, please contact us!

 Let's get the ball rolling - and soon!

[+Guest]

I hate doing criticism here but ... Like Nardo said, as well as north country dude, the idea sounds neat but ... what about project management and coordination. Is there any clear idea of the features included in the game, i mean firm things, that aren't be meant to be changed during the project. Are the tools to develop the game chosen ? Are there any idea the project will be organized , only one manager, or one project manager with some others for the differents parts ? All there things are they key between success of failure of this project, like any, not only in computer science.

I've read quite a bit the slander about the Sim City Societies project, which seems to be the motive of the project. This is all very well but ... what about "cities unlimited", which is the project of Monte Cristo ?

One point i've read on this topic is that there is (140K or 170K ?) members on this forum supporting this project ? Uh ? Is is that sure ?! Obviously, the only thing is see true is that there is many members in the simtropolis community. But how many are really supporting the project ?

I didn't mean to break the morale or the enthousiasts of the project over there, but i think it was important to tell this. I can't support this project ... yet

[daniel_guy64 0]

hey ch_lemr73! this project rocks! i think if this project gets completed it would be the strategy game of the century!

Anyway, i think the ideas that were given here are excellent. I'm excited to read them.

I have an idea about the graphics. I think the shades on the buildings and other props should be changed throughout the game, unlike simcity4 which light and colour changes, but the direction of the shadow doesn't change. I'm thinking, maybe the shadows can move from the west of the building (morning sun rises from the east) to the east? and one side of the building get darker than the opposite side at different points of the day? Like someone else suggested, maybe this can be done in low resolution when the view is from a person walking on the street or flying around, but shown in photos taken from those views? that would be cool.

Also, what about plopping roads in terms of just placing lanes? i mean, like 1 lane is equal to a 1x1 square. Stretching it by dragging will extend the road longer. Placing another lane would make the road wider, and the direction that you drag will affect the direction of the lane. Then, everytime a lane is plopped, a walkway will appear in the square that does not contain anything (I meant like how the swimming pool is placed in The Sims, and it has a path around it when it is placed in an open area). This would totally expand the uses in the road tool.

I'm also thinking that tunnels and overpasses can be made the same way, i mean by placing lanes underground, one beside the other, and dragging them in the direction you want the road to be moving in.

These are just suggestions. I have no idea how to do it.

Joerg, you rock to give such a daring approach to making a game. Wish you luck and hope you can become famous from this! i mean other than in simtropolis. haha.

[+Guest]

I agree this project rocks, having the way it's meant to be designed, but my biggest concern is about the management of the project, because without good management and project coordination, i just fear it's meant to fail. My second concern is also that if one feature is almost decided, with the graphics (full 3D), what about the others ?

[ManagerJosh 0]

I do hope everyone here as plenty of time, energy, and most importantly, financial resources, to help spur game development.

[eFFeeMMe 0]

Hey there!

A python programmer here. I've been reading this site for a bunch of days and the community looks great! Do any of the people involved with this project have MSN or some other IM? I'd be glad to help with the programming.

[fmobus 0]

Hi! Long time reader, first time I post something here. This is a really interesting and audacious project. I have my own ideas, in all topics:

Development

* We could use sourceforge-like services to center code and art development. They usually offer svn/cvs services.

* Like any open-source project, we need people to manage the "build" of the system. With lost of people working in different aspects, there must be someone managing compatibility across all modules.

* Plugins.

* also, I understand that, since we are talking C++, which 3d engine? I suggest openGL. This should help portability to linux and other alien platforms (which I happen to love).

Game engine

* Getting rid of the grid is complex, from a programming and a usability standpoint. Like others, I suggest a smaller grid, more compatible with real life city granularity. Road/street network seem to be the most complex issue, so the grid size should be guided on them; more specifically, the size of a lane. I suggest a 3m x 3m x 5m tile.

* Yes, I suggested a 3-dimensional tile. In my dreams, one should be able to stack roads on top of each other freely.

Transit network

* In my dreams, the user could define his own sets of transit network. For example, let's say he wants an avenue, with 3-lanes each direction, parking space, 1 meter-wide gardened divider. From a GUI standpoint, this could be achieved by either:

    * allowing the user to create a new style thru an appropriate interface

    * allowing the user to edit the "properties" of distinct already-plopped stretches of roads. He right-clicks a road, a dialog pops out showing just the adjacent road network over a grid.

* In both cases above. The user can then manage the purpose of each road tile. He could for instance designate the direction of a lane or add a bike-path. He could also change the texture (cobblestone, asphalt, concrete), the painting, parking allowance, the height of a lane (of course, this would require enough space for a ramp), speed limits; He could also split the road and create a new road from one of the lanes, diverging to a different angle or inclination. This would allow for more flexible intersections and interchanges.

* Also, the user should be able to plot roads over different angles (I suggest 15 degrees as a step) or curved (can I hear splines?) roads. If any space on tiles are left after a angled/curved road is plopped, it could be filled with pedestrian space, grass, etc.

* All this above, of course, would make intersections heavier to implement, as they would have to "cross" different texture blocks.

* Interchanges and overpasses should be thought as just "another level" of a transit network. When designing the on/off-ramps, the user should also be able to choose between raising the ground beneath the road, using pillars, concrete, etc.

* Subway design could be more precise. IRL, the station entrance is not necessarily right above where the train is. The user should be able to draw an underground pathway linking the station to the platform. If you've ever been to any big subway system, you know what I'm talking about.

Zoning

* Zoning should have two modes: fill or square. In both modes, buildings should orient themselves to face the nearest road.

* It should be divided between: Ag, R, C (retail), C (office), I.

* It would be cool to zone civics too. They would grow in a modular way, according to demand and money allocated. For example, if I zone a health zone, some hospital modules would spawn. Same for police, firefighters, etc. There should be also a "bureaucratic" branch of the government.

Building

* Building show grow in a modular fashion (but "at once", not evolving during the game), to avoid having equal buildings everywhere. Given a block set (let's say low-wealth european modern), each block would fit into the new building according to some rules:

* If a block has windows, no other block should fit in a way that could block the window

* If a block is terrace-like, nothing can go above it

* The first level of blocks needs clearance, entrance, etc

* The building should try to look uniform (i.e. windows aligned, etc)

* Inner blocks (i.e. those that won't show in the game) cannot be "exposed", for they have no texture.

* The same applies to the terrain surround the building. Parking lots, gardens, etc. 

Terraforming tools

* Let's be honest, SC4 is realistic in terms of terraforming, but also a pain to use. In this sense, I believe something simpler like SC2000 is more appropriate, with more well-behaved slopes.

* Rivers at any level. Waterfalls and rapids.

So far, these are my ideas. I would love to collaborate with my programming skills, but right now finishing my graduation is more urging. If anyone wants more graphical explanation, feel free to PM me.

the forum software is eating my bullet points and lists on firefox. What should I do?

[star.torturer 0]

Right, time to reiterate the invitation....

Please, if you want to contribute to this project, and I mean actually contribute, like by coding or developing, then please go to urbsurbis.com

and if you want to contribute with ideas then you can join, but please do not demand anything.

Thankyou for your time

Joe

[packersfan 666]

This project sounds awesome if it would happen. I'll keep my eyes peeled for this and offer outside advice and criticism - since I have no skills really to develop a game other than my eye.

[lilmanjs 2]

this sounds like a great idea. I hope this game gets made. if you need someone to be a beta tester I could be one.

[Sabretooth78 808]

I'm by no means a programmer, and I'm slower than frozen molasses when it comes to BATing (plus I can't bring myself to reduce poly count - sorry ). I am, however, a licensed PE with experience in highway engineering and I work for a large (regionally) engineering firm which deals heavily in site/land development. So where I'm more than willing to help is with technical guidance (and maybe even a touch of modeling) when it comes to various transit (particularly automobile) networks. I have a side interest in urban design/planning if that helps (I don't claim to be an expert, though).

I'll also offer up my gMax models for implementation if anybody wants them, so long as I still retain credit for them.

[Concreterancor 0]

Originally posted by: fmobus

Terraforming tools

* Let's be honest, SC4 is realistic in terms of terraforming, but also a pain to use. In this sense, I believe something simpler like SC2000 is more appropriate, with more well-behaved slopes.

* Rivers at any level. Waterfalls and rapids.quote>

I had an idea that just occurred to me on how to handle terraforming.

Imagine you want to raise an embankment alongside a road, but you don't want the road to be destroyed. You would first use an anchor tool to set a series of anchors in a line along the side of the road. Then when you used a tool to raise the terrain, it would not lift up any of the ground past the line of anchors, making a "border" to the ground you were working on. If you raised the ground high enough then, there would be a cliff, thus negating the need for an extra "cliff" tool.

There could be two versions of this tool. One would be an anchor line that created a slope from the line to your newly-formed terrain. This "slope" could actually be quite steep, like the aforementioned cliffs, if you raised or lowered the terrain too much, too close to the road.

The other tool would be a retaining wall, so that when you raise or lower the terrain, there is a much more sudden transition in the topography with a wall between. You could then click on the wall and bring up a set of textures you could use to "paint" it.

I imagine for this to work best, the anchors would have to be made in an enclosed shape, like the photoshop polygon tool. I imagine it would be much easier for the game to determine whether you started terraforming on the inside or outside of the shape than it would be to figure out which side of the line you wanted to terraform.

With these tools, the rest of the terraforming system would not have to be any more sophisticated than the basic terraforming tools in SC4, since you could set exactly the boundaries you wanted to terraform.

[nerdly_dood 26]

Another sugestion: when you start a new city, how about choosing a design and light pattern for emergency vehicles? These tend to be different from city to city, nation to nation. For example, New York police have white cars, blue letters spelling out NYPD on them and a red V shape light. Los Angeles police, on the other hand, have the classic American black and white cop car paint job, and red and blue lights.

Oh, and there MUST be a way to change the paint job while playing your city, with the new cars being visible over the next, say, six months. (my city just finished changing police cars from being white with a blue stripe and blue lights to black and white with blue lights) And the same with fire trucks too.

If you think all this is boring and you don't particularly care what they look like, the game could randomly choose a design for you...?

And about transit networks...how about just having two road tools:

One is just like the street in sc4--no lines but two way traffic.

The other can be used as a one lane one way road, with two going opposite directions for a two lane road, one going one way and two the other could ether be a road with a turning lane in the middle or what is referred to as a Single Lane Road on sc4Devotion forums, or it could be used for highway ramps

How it should work is likethis...You drag the tool one way, and then right next to the one lane one way do it the other way.  This creates a double yellow line where they touch.  If you do them going the same way for a highway,avenue or one way road, then a dotted white line appears. And then there is a situation that i can only describe with a picture...

The short parallel stretch before an intersection or offramp or after an onramp produces a short-dotted line.

...an "all encompassing transport tool" with the same general idea for rail and elevated rail, just no two-way-in-one-tool...so ANY kind of interchange is possible, so long as the road tool can stack up many layers high of immesnely confusing traffic nightmare.  AND you coyuld build railyards without having to plop them at all, just drag a bunch of rail all together and there is a rail yard, and ALL of the rail lines going through will be transit enabled...and really wide toll booths like in the Modern Toll Booth set on the STEX...endless possibilities!!!

BUT!!! this will be immensely tedious, and anyone who can play sc4 with NO problems about how complex it is will be able to do it, NO new players will be able to handle it, they will be better off with SimCity Classic, then 2000, 3000 and 4, or they could just start off cold turkey with SimCity Societies.

*nerdly_dood collapses from the exhaustion of saying so much*

[sc4portugal 10]

There could be a type of intersection like this, which a Portuguese type, (I've never seen one anywhere else. 

Nice drawing nerdly, I like your idea.

[Smarty218 2]

Great idea, but if your serious, you need money, expertise and contacts. Not that I doubt you guys.

[Subacious 0]

I don't think it's possible for you guys to create the game you're all dreaming of.  You're talking about creating a game better than Sim City 4 from scratch, essentially, done entirely on volunteer work.  It would take years to complete.  It's not going to happen.

[Sbah 0]

Subacious -> don't be such a pessimist

Well, over to the main idea, I think it's a very nice, because I've always wanted to make a game, but yeah, many ideas, little progress..

I didn't read so much here, more i read the context, because I'm kind in a hurry. But I'll come back to this later when I've read, because this is under big interest by me.

But to the ideas, and my ones..

The transport system HAS to be developed. In SC4, well, their kind of one-sided if you know what I mean? Okay, there's such many roads to choose beatween for example! oh, just being ironic. For example, in a town, there's Roads, and there's roads. And that's just a small thing that's to be changed. Then I'm pissed of on the railroads and especially, the stations, I know there's mods and so on (one reason why I joined..) but mainly, it needs a huge development, and quick! and ports are the third thing I'll up here in this short reply, their so boring and how many ports are just kind of rectangular blocks?

Well, then to natural stuff, like the water, why is water just at water level, I would want maybe a nice lake in a crater or something in my city, but no, just makes me cry! and the final thing I'll take up for now is, the, what should we call 'em, "statusmeters" (because I don't remember the real name, but you know those with education, safety, enviroment...) their so unreal, if you have let's say, a industrial area with 30x30, you can't build but parks and trees on the rest of the map to make less pollution and so on, and their to easy pollutional at least according to me? but, keep up the work, c u!

[GoaSkin 2]

Once before I reported that there are already two open source Sim City clone projects: OpenCity and LinCityNG. Both are very rudimentary at the moment but this is something usable to start over.

It is easier to continue the development of something existing than to make something completely new. Both projects do not have many developers at the moment so the projects are beeing developed very slowly.

If anybody can help to create a new sim city clone, (s)he should invest the time into the existing projects.

Regarding Maxis and the sourcecode the main problem is that EA tries to isolate theirselves from any contact to outside. Neither the website nor any manual publishes the necessary contact information to speak with the coders and if you know any contact mail, you are always beeing ignored even if you send a long and qualified mail. Keeping the source closed to avoid new concurrence that makes money with that is no argument. I don't think that EA theirselves is permitted to release the full source because they may use developer tools (like frameworks) that they have licensed theirselves so that releasing some parts of the source needs the permission of further companies than Maxis. But this is not needed for a community game. A possibility would be to port the game from a commercial licensed backend to an opensource backend like SDL (simple direct media layer).

I don't know much about the extension interface of Sim City 4 but it is possible to code DLL-based extensions using a kind of SDK. Buggi possibly has this SDK and used it to code his DLL plugins. A first step would be to publish this SDK (if there is one) under an opensource license to make the programation of opensource extensions for SC4 possible.

[Joetropian1 1]

Transportation

I was so saddened by transportational networks after a while on SC4. One dumb idea that popped into my head was you could have this road custumizer where you customize the transportation with the amount of lanes, say, 1 tile can hold up to 6 lanes, 2 tiles up to 12 tiles, etc. and you could choose to make this the default road, street, whatever. Then you could go back to the customizer make a different one for use but, say not make it default. You could also fill in whatever doesn't have some kind of a lane with sidewalks, parkways, bike paths, advertisement sign space, parking, etc. Maybe you could even choose textures. If there is a space in the middle, you could maybe put the columns for a elevate rail/maglev/whatever right above it. You could say, for highways, have this tool where you could redesign the under/overpasses turnoff things etc. It probably sounds like a dumb idea, but I had been thinking about it while i was going in the bathrooms and it came through (no pun intended)... Maybe you could even have 3-6 different 'levels' of transportation. You know, underground level, sunken level, ground level, raised sublevel 1, raised sublevel 2, and raised a few hundred ft. in the air like my airtrain idea I'll mention later in this mammoth of a post. Of course, all these different levels have different options for them, and then specific options exclusive to the level, etc. The transportation networks, in my opinion, should be: roadways: walkway (pedestrian only), street, road, large road, Avenue, Boulevard, Highway!, bus. Airways: Airports, Hot Air Ballons. Waterways: Canals, Gondolas, Bridge, boat ferry, yacht (for rich people within 16 tiles of the coast). Underground: Subways, tunnels. Railways: MagLev, rail, elevated rail, tram, VERY elevated rail. All transportation routes would of course have to be customizable, down to the names of the children of the children of the children of the assistant conductors of the shortest rail line of the farthest neighbor city (just kidding, but that'd be funny).

Tiles

Also, I really think tiles should be split into eighths, you know a + and a X crossed over each other. That way you could split the tile into quarters for narrow roads like alleys or something and make diagonal cause I and many others Im sure just love diagonals . Or maybe just eights or 16ths. Transportation routes on top of apartment buildings would be somewhat realistic. In Vietnam (?) was it they are linking all their major cities to the largest city. The elevated railways will have small businesses and stalls under them. That would be possible right?

Also, prices are ridiculous in SC4! If you build a park the size of a house it won't be $5 a month. And if a house is abandoned, it will go up for sale, not turn black and catch fire very quickly. And if a huge disaster just wiped out a large portion of you city, you would likely receive federal aid, not pay for damages!

Oh, and taller skyscrapers would be awesome.

Terraforming

The terraforming in SC4 iss just a tad too exact. Also, the idea of keeping an area safe with 'anchors' as someone called it, is a very good idea. I would personally love to raise a little cliff without tearing half my city to pieces. In the Sims2, you can move the land in a defined height/size. Plus, Im pretty sure you can make land changes in Sims2 without tearing the walls apart. It just changes the land around say, the foundation. A much simpler terraforming system, but still with most of the tools, would be much appreciated by me.

Miscellaneous

And a few other dumb ideas I thought of: I thought that it'd be pretty... effici

[jawcheats 0]

i would love to see this happen, i can help in any way possible and when it starts to get developed i would greatly advertise on my sites.

[Ace_F15 16]

To be honest CU is more promising. Why not just wait?

[SmartRoss1 0]

I have given up on reading through the 21 pages of the forum and have decided to get straight to the point: I am able to help.

I have some programming experience with C++ which I can expand on. I am also skilled with Photoshop, however my experience there is generally in modifying existing images, not creating new ones.

Carry on with this and, if you accept my invitation to help I will gladly do so.

[borisv 0]

Cheers. I'm a software developer at an engineering firm. I've been working on an ideal city builder for about a year now...sadly, I am not an artist, so my biggest problem is coming up with art assets for the game. More on this in the future...

[titaniumnutz 1]

May be there is a way to attract serious investments if properly proposed.

tell people know how many city building game fans are out there waiting for the change.

[Pandion 0]

Hi everyone.

I just discovered this forum about you trying to make the perfect City game. I'm a programmer, but I haven;t been inti game making. If I just had a little piece of code to get an idea... If someone can send me something.

Anyway, have you people decide anything yet? Is there any "list" of game characteristics? Are there any dictators? Is any real job been done yet? Sorry if I'm aggressive, but I love the idea, and would like to be part of it. and it should be done.

Thanks anyone who will help

Alex

pandiontoo@freemail.gr

[justintime 8]

Can i be the transit diagram maker?

[justintime 8]

Originally posted by: sc4portugal

There could be a type of intersection like this, which a Portuguese type, (I've never seen one anywhere else. 

Nice drawing nerdly, I like your idea.quote>

Here you go