Misnomer -- could it be we are mistaken?

[schm0 27]

I've been asking this question with little to no response, so I suppose I'll just start my own thread. To me, SimCity: Societies sounds like a game that carries the name SimCity, but is a completely different type of game in itself. Therefore, it must not be SimCity 5. That's my logic, at least.

What do you think? Is it the next installation of SimCity, waiting to disappoint? Or is it just a harmless spinoff by a new developer looking to cash in on the SimCity franchise?

[LivingInThePast 364]

I think it's a spinoff that replaces the main SimCity. Because it is too far away from other SimCities, Societies is the next installation, which is a big disappointment.

[Ogedei 0]

If it IS SimCity 5 then why isn't it called "SimCity 5"? I think that it is in actuality a spinoff rather than an actual fifth incarnation of SimCity. Spinoff games with different genres following certain franchises are not uncommon.

This might be the mystery behind Chris Beatrice's comments. It could very well be that he meant that SCS is actually just a spinoff game and not the actual SC5.

[Gman55 0]

Interesting point. Could Sim City Societies be like The Sims Life Stories? Part of the series, but not a true and true sequel?

[JanYpe 17]

I believe we've now entered yet another classic stage: denial.

[Pixelrage 34]

I think TM would have at least said "actually, this isn't the next Sim City" if it weren't.

[Alkaola 18]

denial, exactly

[JanYpe 17]

You don't make a Star Wars sequel & set it in Victorian England.quote>

I would totally watch that movie. Lt. Sharpe meets Chewbacca? It would get an Oscar for sure.

[Spinmaster 75]

That's the dilemma. I'd so like to believe that they don't honestly see this as the next sequel in an acclaimed series, merely a branch. I hope and pray that's all this is. Most of SC fan base agrees that it IS a realistic urban simulation. There's plenty of debate over the "realistic" part of that phrase, naturally, but most would say that is the fundamental goal of it at least. I for one did not buy SimCity 4 thinking it was a golf game. If ID Software came out and said "we're making Doom 4, but it won't be about killing bad guys" you can bet there'd be 100x more fire thrown at them than what TM is fielding now.

If the statements had said "it will be a simulation game, and it will evolve significantly, but don't expect true-to-life realism" ... ok, I can buy that. It is a game after all. And it must run on the average user's computer, be fun, and be a complete change from the last version. But "it's not an urban simulation" is flat-out unacceptable. I'm still hoping they'll explain that statement in some logical fashion. "It's actually intended to just be another branch in the series, not a true sequel" would get a big "WHEW" from a lot of people, and TM and EA can both save face in the process. And personally, I would even be interested to see (i.e. willing to plunk down $$ for) this "spinoff" if indeed they'll state it as such, and let me at least continue to hope for a true "next evolution" of my beloved urban simulation. This I think is the key. If they keep saying this IS the next full evolution of SimCity, they will continue to get serious heat with the "it's not an urban simulation" bit. A true sequel should effectively replace SimCity 4, save for reminiscing. By what I've seen so far, a) that's what they intend SCS to be, and b) so far, they're very very wrong.

I look forward to being proven wrong on this, because I would LOVE SCS to be amazing in any case. And if it's a "spinoff" there's a good chance I'll check it out at least. But I don't want a false illusion that it will replace SimCity 4 when in fact from the very start it just throws out the main reason I love SimCity (all versions) in the first place - it's an urban simulation. I don't buy illusions (sorry, Mr Hopkins).

[Dirktator 2,320]

Here's the quote from 1up.com news release (linked on home page):

But what's the deal with the "Societies" bit? Is this or is it not the fifth installment of the series? The answer is a confounding "yes."quote>

So the impression I got was that it is the fifth SimCity, ie. SimCity 5.  Tilted Mill has not corrected this (to my knowledge)...

But the point is an interesting one. 

[Poetic 0]

I think it's relatively obvious that EA is unsure. They want to wait and see how this "new" SimCity deals with the general public. Will it turn a profit? That's the question going through EA. If it does then yes, it is SimCity 5. If it doesn't then they may go back to the drawing board and create a SimCity 5 based on the old model. They want to keep their options open.

[Goldfish4209 9]

Originally posted by: Poetic I think it's relatively obvious that EA is unsure. They want to wait and see how this "new" SimCity deals with the general public. Will it turn a profit? That's the question going through EA. If it does then yes, it is SimCity 5. If it doesn't then they may go back to the drawing board and create a SimCity 5 based on the old model. They want to keep their options open.quote>

Good point, this may be what they're doing. Who knows, maybe they're monitoring all the fansites and absorbing what all of us have to say about it. But if it's coming out in november, I don't think they're going to have time to go back to the old model completely, they're just going to take what they have in a new direction.

[Poetic 0]

Originally posted by: Goldfish4209 But if it's coming out in november, I don't think they're going to have time to go back to the old model completely, they're just going to take what they have in a new direction.quote>

Actually, last night the release was delayed to January:

http://www.1up.com/do/gameOverview?cId=3160082

I don't think it's a coincidence that they did it after a lot of the members went there to complain. Supposedly, in chat here, they said they're willing to listen to us. The delay, I think, shows they might.

[Lambtropolis 0]

This whole thing wouldn't bother me so much if they simply wouldn't use the SimCity name for this new title. They really should call it "Sim Societies" or something like that - leave room for Maxis or another software company to come in later and create a real SimCity 5.

[zzsim 3]

Originally posted by: JanYpe I believe we've now entered yet another classic stage: denial. quote>

 

LOL, only one stage away from acceptance .

[JanYpe 17]

It may well be possible that this process will actually bring us into the uncharted waters of another stage: Dangerous self-delusion. Early symptoms include statements such as: "We'll make SC5 ourselves" and "EA will go bankrupt over this. This was a big mistake."

 We won't know for sure if this stage has set in until the news reports of people dressed as llamas shooting up office buildings while shouting "I'll show you societies! NYahahahaha!" start rolling in. By then it may already be too far along to recover from.

Stay ever vigilant.

[DFire870 2]

I was thinking the same way, that this is merely a spin-off. However, I have an addition to this theory. Maybe Maxis will be developing the "true" SimCity 5, but not just yet. After all, they're working on finishing Spore and also the TS2 expansions, maybe after Spore is released they'll begin (or return to) working on SC5, and in another couple of years we'll see the actual sequel to SC4. Makes sense IMO.

[J0nnD0ugh 31]

Originally posted by: Spinmaster That's the dilemma. I'd so like to believe that they don't honestly see this as the next sequel in an acclaimed series, merely a branch. I hope and pray that's all this is. Most of SC fan base agrees that it IS a realistic urban simulation. There's plenty of debate over the "realistic" part of that phrase, naturally, but most would say that is the fundamental goal of it at least. I for one did not ........quote>

Didn't want to guote your entire post, but you hit it right on the head. Give it a name like "The Sims: My Hometown" or something like that. Don't insult us or snow us. It would ease alot of feelings & may get us curious to give it a look see. But put the SimCity name on it & then say its nothing like SimCity, you're going to get some flak.

[Hanson784 165]

I was thinking about this last night.

It could be SimCity is splitting off into two segments. Societies is geared more toward Sims players while SimCity 5 is geared more toward the long time fan base (us) and is still to be announced by EA.

At least that's what I'm hoping.

[Micah 16]

Originally posted by: DFire870 I was thinking the same way, that this is merely a spin-off. However, I have an addition to this theory. Maybe Maxis will be developing the "true" SimCity 5, but not just yet. After all, they're working on finishing Spore and also the TS2 expansions, maybe after Spore is released they'll begin (or return to) working on SC5, and in another couple of years we'll see the actual sequel to SC4. Makes sense IMO.quote>

 

Maxis doesn't exist anymore...

[AndisArt 2,066]

Originally posted by: Poetic I think it's relatively obvious that EA is unsure. They want to wait and see how this "new" SimCity deals with the general public. Will it turn a profit? That's the question going through EA. If it does then yes, it is SimCity 5. If it doesn't then they may go back to the drawing board and create a SimCity 5 based on the old model. They want to keep their options open.quote>

 

They might very well be following that strategy. Maybe one reason they changed the name is for the case if they make a "real" sequel later to be able to call it SimCity 5.

[Fweet 0]

Seeing no "5" on this product, I am inclined to think that it is not the SimCity 5 we've been waiting for. I really hope this doesn't get pawned off as a legitimate sequel in the franchise.

Think of it like this:

SimCity = Real World

SimCity: Societies = Road Rules

Same actors, two different formats.

At least it's not a FPS.

[zzsim 3]

I did actually think the same thing originaly, that this may just be a spin off. If you remember a while ago, Will Wright made some comments about the direction of the next Sim City, which hinted that he and Maxis where in atleast the planning stages of a new game. Plus an old chat transcript with a Maxis dev from 2004 on the SC Central website, hinted about a new direction for the game and that it was in developement. However, I don't think it is actually two games, but instead what probaly happened was that the old Maxis started planning and the early developement of the next Sim City, but once their attention got diverted to their new game Spore, EA likely had the developement transferred to Tilted Mills, which has claimed to have been working on SCSocieties for some two years (which would coincide with when the game got handed over to them late 2004 early 2005).

Here's a link to the SC Central chat transcript. I don't honestly know if the guy was a Maxis dev but it is still interesting to look at:  http://www.simcitycentral.net/simcity5/

[Pixelrage 34]

I highly, highly doubt SCS is going to be it's own "entity" like Sim Copter or Streets of Sim City....if it is, then it would have integrated with the saved game files from SC4 or Sims 2 in some way.

[offgreen 1]

Realistically from what I can tell its a spinoff, but under the sim city name. It appears there will be no SC5 yet a game designed more around the sims.

[masssc4 3]

Originally posted by: Pixelrage I highly, highly doubt SCS is going to be it's own "entity" like Sim Copter or Streets of Sim City....if it is, then it would have integrated with the saved game files from SC4 or Sims 2 in some way.quote>

 

true

[Spinmaster 75]

Originally posted by: zzsim I did actually think the same thing originaly, that this may just be a spin off. If you remember a while ago, Will Wright made some comments about the direction of the next Sim City, which hinted that he and Maxis where in atleast the planning stages of a new game. Plus an old chat transcript with a Maxis dev from 2004 on the SC Central website, hinted about a new direction for the game and that it was in developement. However, I don't think it is actually two games, but instead what probaly happened was that the old Maxis started planning and the early developement of the next Sim City, but once their attention got diverted to their new game Spore, EA likely had the developement transferred to Tilted Mills, which has claimed to have been working on SCSocieties for some two years (which would coincide with when the game got handed over to them late 2004 early 2005).

Here's a link to the SC Central chat transcript. I don't honestly know if the guy was a Maxis dev but it is still interesting to look at:  http://www.simcitycentral.net/simcity5/

quote>

This brings up an interesting point, actually. It's not at all uncommon for one group to design a project, and another to actually implement it. Sometimes it's technical reasons - the project managers couldn't write a lick of code to save their lives. Sometimes, it's creative reasons - the design team knows how the core product must function, the "business rules" (or "simulation game rules" in this case), and how the rest should fit together. Is it possible, just possible... that even though TM is officially "developing" (aka "implementing the code") the game, some of the Maxis team were at least involved in the design and planning phases? After all, the announcement of TM developing it was surprisingly close to even the now-pushed release date. No way they can redesign and implement such a massive project in so little time. Food for thought.

This isn't a "thank God Maxis was involved (if they were)" comment, mind you. I have no allegiance to Maxis or any other development company. I thank Maxis for all the titles thus far, but I'm sure Twisted Mills is very capable of this project or else EA wouldn't have chosen them. But there is something to be said for passing the baton vs. simply tossing it across the room. I seriously doubt EA did the latter. I don't imagine TM would've even accepted without at least documented specifications and some creative input from the prior gurus. Developers love to learn "how did the other guy do that?" Then they like to do it even better.

[LivingInThePast 364]

Originally posted by: JanYpe I believe we've now entered yet another classic stage: denial. quote>

No, no...denial comes BEFORE anger.

[Lambtropolis 0]

‘SimCity’ kind of worked itself into a corner,” Wright said. “We were still appealing to this core ‘SimCity’ group. It had gotten a little complicated for people who had never played ‘SimCity.’ We want to take it back to its roots where somebody who had never heard of ‘SimCity’ can pick it up and enjoy playing it without thinking it was really, really hard.quote>

Quite honestly, this quote makes it sound like SimCity will be "dumbed down" in order to be more appealing to The Sims players and basically anyone unfamiliar with SimCity. Personally, I have never found SimCity to be all that difficult, and would love to have an even more in-depth, realistic game.

[Dexter 40]

I think that this "next generation" game has graphics worse than the first previews of Simcity 4 (the ones when the game was going to be 3D).

I don't think that this is the next Simcity, I just hope that this is not Simcity 5. If the final game is anything like that preview picture, and that is a big if, I won't be getting it. The game looks like it is still grid based, and problaby suffers from all the problems Simcity 4 does. I understand that this is an alpha stage of delvelopment, but I think that this is a big disappointment for a first impression.

Lets just hope that Maxis makes the game open source. Buggi was in the process of getting Maxis to give some of the code, but it seems to have died.

All in all, not happy .