Turkey invades Iraq

[Micah 16]

Thousands of Turkish soldiers have invaded the Kurds in northern Iraq to kill Kurdish guerilla groups. Since it's breaking news, I'm not quite sure what to think of this. I'll reply once I know more.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19070463/

[Barbarossa 51]

Wow... I didn't think they would do it. I don't know what else to say, except that this will complicate things...

Barbarossa

[coolotter88 2]

die kurdish guerilla groups...I'm sure there's a reason why they're guerilla-ing though.

[Barbarossa 51]

die kurdish guerilla groups...I'm sure there's a reason why they're guerilla-ing though.quote>

I wish I knew more about the dynamics behind all of this. IMO, it seems the Kurds are in a bad place, much like the Palestinians. They deserve some respect, and MAYBE they deserve their own little parcel of land to call a country. I think it is a well known fact that Turkey has always been hostile to the Kurds. There is a high likelihood that I mentioned in some other post, that Iraq, now that it is not controlled by a dictator, should probably be broken up into separate entities. Iraq is only a by-gone construction of British and American colonialism (regarding independence, etc), therefore the borders established are purely arbitrary and not at all respective of the cultural identities involved. Kind of like what happened to Central and Eastern Europe after WWII.

Barbarossa

[coolotter88 2]

Iraq was never broken up into pieces before, though. so I don't see how they used to be "friendly" but now they aren't...

[Micah 16]

Well, this is what the Kurds want:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17722026

Click on Powerplays

and then click on Kurdistan.

Kurdistan (which isn't a country yet) are what the guerillas are fighting for.

[Barbarossa 51]

Iraq was never broken up into pieces before, though. so I don't see how they used to be "friendly" but now they aren't...quote>

There was no Iraq in the past. There was only Persia, now "Lesser" Iran.

Barbarossa

[Simfan34 11]

This can't be good.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Hot pursuit, I think.  And excusable.  In fact, I doubt there will be any waves from anybody.

As usual, those who know the least said the most.

The Kurds will never get their way in this.  Neither will the Basques ever get the territory they want from France and Spain.

What I would really like to see is a reunified Persia, perhaps with Turkey thrown in for good measure.  National language should be Farsi, and the state religion should be Rosicrucianism or Zoroasterism.

[Cjah 15]

Well...this is rather interesting....

Turkey...technically the "new" Ottoman Empire has started a war to basically shut up the Kurds...

I belive this is exactly what happened to Poland with Russia....

I know there never was a Kurdistan,but if Americans can form this northern state it can help us out massively....

First how does this even benefit America....

If we helped them we'd be their allies and we could probably get deals on oil since the Kurdish part of Iraq produces much oil...

Second we'd actaully being doing much of the region a favor....the followers of Sh?'a Islam or Iran will be happy to take Southern Iraq...although this does cause problems for America...(higher oil prices) it will bring changes more suitable for this region...

Now much of the readers of this thread wonder...what about the Sunnis?

They can join Saudi Arabia or Syria....I mean either way the Sunni's are gonna be trapped in the sand...may aswell join a nation where their religion is the main and they can have acess to the Mediterranean Sea which is alot better then being their own landlocked nation....

This may totally remove Iraq...but I have a feeling much of the Sunni's will go the Kurdish route and try to gain their own nation...

I think if Turkey takes over the Kurdish parts of Iraq...

this will begin the Showdown between Iran and Turkey...probably starting WW3....

We need to keep Turkey and Iran far from each other...just give Iran the southern portion of Iraq and then give up some of Iran so it can combine with the Kurds in Turkey to form Kurdistan...

I hope Kurdistan is formed...its the only way for peace...

giving everything to Iran..and changing its name to Persia won't change nothing....You really want a middle eastern power the size of Russia and the weapons of all the former powers Iran/Turkey/Suadi Arabia....its a nightmare waiting to happen....

Didn't WW1 teach people that most Kingdoms and Empires don't work...as sad as I am to say this...I realize why Hungary lost so much land...but it did bring some peace....i guess....

[coolotter88 2]

now what will the Iraqis say when we tell them they're either part of Turkey or a part of Iran?

[Easy Bakes 253]

Originally posted by: Cjah Well...this is rather interesting....

Turkey...technically the "new" Ottoman Empire has started a war to basically shut up the Kurds...

I belive this is exactly what happened to Poland with Russia....

I know there never was a Kurdistan,but if Americans can form this northern state it can help us out massively....

First how does this even benefit America....

If we helped them we'd be their allies and we could probably get deals on oil since the Kurdish part of Iraq produces much oil...

Second we'd actaully being doing much of the region a favor....the followers of Sh?'a Islam or Iran will be happy to take Southern Iraq...although this does cause problems for America...(higher oil prices) it will bring changes more suitable for this region...

Now much of the readers of this thread wonder...what about the Sunnis?

They can join Saudi Arabia or Syria....I mean either way the Sunni's are gonna be trapped in the sand...may aswell join a nation where their religion is the main and they can have acess to the Mediterranean Sea which is alot better then being their own landlocked nation....

This may totally remove Iraq...but I have a feeling much of the Sunni's will go the Kurdish route and try to gain their own nation...

I think if Turkey takes over the Kurdish parts of Iraq...

this will begin the Showdown between Iran and Turkey...probably starting WW3....

We need to keep Turkey and Iran far from each other...just give Iran the southern portion of Iraq and then give up some of Iran so it can combine with the Kurds in Turkey to form Kurdistan...

I hope Kurdistan is formed...its the only way for peace...

giving everything to Iran..and changing its name to Persia won't change nothing....You really want a middle eastern power the size of Russia and the weapons of all the former powers Iran/Turkey/Suadi Arabia....its a nightmare waiting to happen....

Didn't WW1 teach people that most Kingdoms and Empires don't work...as sad as I am to say this...I realize why Hungary lost so much land...but it did bring some peace....i guess....quote>

 

Wouldnt that just cause more problems later on?

Humans have a terrible record or spliting  this counrty up and makeing these 2 or 3 countys

for "Peace". It seems to backfire down the road every time it happens because you dont make every one happy.

[Godzillaman 21]

WOW unexpected! i never would have guessed!

[rickmastfan67 0]

Man, this is some crazy stuff.

[Odainsaker 2,135]

No no no, that's not the plan. Under the benevolent protection of the United States, the Greater Iraqi Republic is supposed to form the anschluss with Syria, absorb Kuwait, Jordan, and Lebanon, and form defensive pacts with the lesser Gulf states, thus becoming our indebted Middle East partner in deterence against a checkmated Iran and an unreliable Saudi Arabia. Israel might freak out, but we'll promise them the new goliath will undertake the final solution to their Palestinian problem and bring enough unified regional order and security to usher in the Pax Mesopotamia and awaken the long delayed Pan-Arab Renaissance. While were at it, rebuild Great Babylon and reinstall the Baghdad caliphate too. C'mon, I worked this all out playing Sid Meier's Civilization; those Neo-Conservatives have no vision or haven't listened to enough Wagner.

Returning to reality, I do not know of any single example of a modern nation whose forced partition along ethnic, racial, or religious lines didn't turn into a catastrophic gory bloodbath sowing permanent hatred burned forever into the geopolitical maps. "Partition" is what the diplomats will say, while mass displaced refugees fleeing to their matching majority areas amidst outright ethnic cleansing is what you will have on the ground as all sides try to hold onto as much territory as they can by engineering majorities through state-sanctioned terror. As much as Iraq might be in chaos, it has not yet quite reached that point, though it is worrisome that the big cities are showing signs of it as different groups are being intimidated into their own city sectors thanks to the unending violence. The paths of the defunct Yugoslavia and British India are models to avoid.

But we did this on the cheap with just enough troops to lose, leaving a big enough security vacuum to draw in terrorist opportunists from all sides, and the now big scary states are getting dragged in. Time to shove Cheney and Condi aside and start talking to Sid Meier.

I know Turkey may hope to pre-empt the Kurdish movement, but they really are just set to throw yet more oil on the fire.

[screamingman12 30]

Wait, aren't the Kurds the most peaceful group in Iraq? Even so, Turkey has no right to invade and (probably) kill (more) innocent people. This cannot end well.

[paperboy15 4]

Whoop-dee-doo. This whole thing is blown way out of proportion.

[Cjah 15]

Originally posted by: screamingman12 Wait, aren't the Kurds the most peaceful group in Iraq? Even so, Turkey has no right to invade and (probably) kill (more) innocent people. This cannot end well.quote>

 

Thats why I hope America backs them and helps them form a nation...also this nation will have a good chunk of Iraq former oil....

Also we may even be able to bring democracy to the Kurds...

thats what we were suppose to do for Iraq....

[SMSmart 0]

Originally posted by: Cjah Well...this is rather interesting....

Turkey...technically the "new" Ottoman Empire has started a war to basically shut up the Kurds...

I belive this is exactly what happened to Poland with Russia....

quote>

How is this like Russia and Poland? 

Originally posted by: screamingman12 Wait, aren't the Kurds the most peaceful group in Iraq? Even so, Turkey has no right to invade and (probably) kill (more) innocent people. This cannot end well.quote>

Yes indeed they are the most peaceful of the bunch, and the only secure part of Iraq at this point, thanks to their own militia. 

Thats why I hope America backs them and helps them form a nation...also this nation will have a good chunk of Iraq former oil....quote>

What do you mean by oil?

Anyways, it's interesting that this really hasn't been that big of a news story, I don't believe any of the evening news programs even mentioned it.

So is this really a huge issue?

[Barbarossa 51]

So is this really a huge issue?quote>

Not yet, but Rice made comments today that indicate the US would not accept a full blown incursion into Iraq, but she essentially gave the green light to across-the-border raids. There is a lot of potential for this to go south, I think.

Barbarossa

[sepsis 17]

Now where's Saddam Hussein Abd al-Majid al-Tikriti when you need him?

[Goldfish4209 9]

Originally posted by: Cjah

I know there never was a Kurdistan,but if Americans can form this northern state it can help us out massively....

First how does this even benefit America....quote>

It makes a relatively weak, oil saturated state that the US can badger into giving up all their oil.

Not literally, but something of the sort.

[nurhak 1]

--- edited for profanity ---

[JanYpe 17]

"Get" whose lands? They shouldn't "get" the land they inhabit in Iraq, or they shouldn't "get" the land they inhabit in Turkey?

[Kotztopf 1]

yea... the turkish can get annoying at any circumstance