33 confirmed dead in campus rampage

[IDS2 3,429]

Well of course he was insane. But I hate hat they kill themselves so we can't send 'em to prison and serve them right!!!

[SpecialEddie 3]

I disagree with people saying gun ownership should be banned. Murder is illegal as well, and yet people go on killing each other. A document saying that guns in civilian hands is illegal is just about as useless as telling all the gangs in Los Angeles to get along. A piece of paper won't do anything. Educating people on responsible gun use will. 

As for the 30+ dead...jeez.

[Easy Bakes 253]

Originally posted by: Joesocwork

In our household we have at least one relative that goes to the school and The Magistrate has been on the phone and watching the news all day.  The relative reports that she wasn't there today but she had concerns about a fiance's sister who was.

The media, imo, has been reasonably fair and compassionate so far.  I can hardly wait for the inevitable politization of the event, in whatever forms they may take.

quote>

 

Its already to late.

One of the cable news network  was very much blaming the 

slow/ inadaquate response to the shooting at the dorm 2 or so hours before the main thing in the class room area.

rather then blaming the coward with a gun who actualy did the shooting.

the next set of blame ( and some what deserved) will go to the school for not shuting things down  after  the 1st shootings.

[defcon pilot 0]

Originally posted by: IDS2 Well of course he was insane. But I hate hat they kill themselves so we can't send 'em to prison and serve them right!!! quote>

I hate how some people think that prison solves everything. Lock them up in a concrete room and let them vegetate in front of the cable TV for a few years. Yeah, that'll solve everything.

...riiiight.

[Joesocwork 4]

It solves enough: They are being punished and they are out of society's hair for those years.

[crazyyaya 4]

what a tradegy, how could someone do that?

[Cjah 15]

hmmm....wonder what i said that was in deserving of deletion....

[patfirefghtr 160]

Originally posted by: Easy Bakes

Originally posted by: Joesocwork

In our household we have at least one relative that goes to the school and The Magistrate has been on the phone and watching the news all day.  The relative reports that she wasn't there today but she had concerns about a fiance's sister who was.

The media, imo, has been reasonably fair and compassionate so far.  I can hardly wait for the inevitable politization of the event, in whatever forms they may take.

quote>

 

Its already to late.

One of the cable news network  was very much blaming the 

slow/ inadequate response to the shooting at the dorm 2 or so hours before the main thing in the class room area.

rather then blaming the coward with a gun who actually did the shooting.

the next set of blame ( and some what deserved) will go to the school for not shutting things down  after  the 1st shootings.quote>

 

The school officials need to be held more accountable for what happened and simply slushing it off wont cut it this time.  Last few weeks there the school has been receiving threats and sure they might have been thinking idle threats but at least for crying out the school should have been on alert and this should have never happened.  I whole heartily agree the school should have gone on lock down after the first incident but according to one school official they felt the incident was over, just an isolated thing.  I'm sorry that don't cut it in my books cause like i said there have been threats prior to this.  So this event happening today should have triggered the lock down. Just look at my post on the first page and follow that link to see why im so upset about this today. - Pat

[spa 970]

Surely two people being shot (one dead and one injured) is reason to cancel classes and go into lockdown. If not what the heck is? That's what they were dealing with for the first two hours over at the dorm. I agree that we shouldn't blame the authorities for the massacre, but surely we can criticize incompetence. They have responsibilities and on first blush they seem to have failed spectacularly.

On this threads 1st page I pointed to Montreal where authorities were resoundling slammed for delaying entering the building during the Ecole Polytechnique shootings which led to a change of procedures. The result is that quick and proactive action at Dawson College averted what could have been a much bigger tragedy.

[defcon pilot 0]

Originally posted by: Joesocwork It solves enough: They are being punishedquote>

Sit around, watch TV, wash clothes, and lift weights is punishment now?

they are out of society's hair for those years.quote>

Bureau of Justice Statistics

Special Report: State Prison Expenditures,

2001

Correctional authorities spent $38.2 billion to maintain the Nation's State correctional systems in fiscal year 2001, including $29.5 billion specifically for adult correctional facilities. Day-to-day operating expenses totaled $28.4 billion, and capital outlays for land, new building, and renovations, $1.1 billion.

The average annual operating cost

per State inmate in 2001 was $22,650,

or $62.05 per day. Among facilities

operated by the Federal Bureau

of Prisons, it was $22,632 per inmate,

or $62.01 per day.quote>

Not quite.

source

[JanYpe 17]

Apparently Fred Phelps and the WBC plan to stage one of their protests at the funerals for the Virginia Tech victims. It seems they'll grab any chance for media coverage they can get. Bunch of hateful vultures. [Edited for content] Marc [Edited for new content!] Me Overruled - Marc Objection! - me   Excuse me, but editing a moderator's edit is a bannable offense. I wouldn't do it again if I were you. -- Mike. I wish I could still be surprised at this, but I'm not.

Originally posted by: defcon pilot...Sarcasm...quote>

Please enlighten us as to how you plan to rehabilitate every criminal and make a profit for the taxpayers while doing so. I'm on the edge of my seat here, really.

[coolotter88 2]

public works, all the inmates work on public works, in the end, free labor for better infrastructure.

and its annoying how we just blame people not responsible for the shooting...guess what everyone? The university officials didn't go into class and shoot people, it wasn't like the president of the university went into Norris hall with a semiautomatic weapon and shot a bunch of kids, no, some crazy asian person went in and killed people. And stop blaming poor response times from the university, it was perfectly normal to believe that the first incident was isolated, you don't get massacres every day and 2 deaths does not forecast a massacre.

bluebomberman, did you hear any gunshots? and how far away were you from the incident?

[Simfan34 11]

Well, I heard that the kid was some crazy right-winger who admired Hitler and made use of him calling the Japanese "honoary aryans"

[Barbarossa 51]

Well, I heard that the kid was some crazy right-winger who admired Hitler and made use of him calling the Japanese "honoary aryans"quote>

That's strange. I read he was South Korean. And they don't exactly take kindly to ideas of Japanese superiority.

Barbarossa

[hamsterTK 93]

I don't understand where EasyBakes is coming from

I guess when those sweatshops in 19th century NYC burned up with everyone trapped inside I suppose everyone shouldve just been sad instead of focusing on ways to improve safety conditions?

I think its sort of strange that a double homicide takes place inside the university and the killer is on the loose yet things go on as usual. Sure they had no way of knowing what was about to happen, but out of common sense they shouldve locked down the campus for no other reason that to track down the murderer. I suppose in Virginia if you kill someone the cops have to go get their donuts first before tracking you down, give you a little head start to make it more interesting maybe?

[commanderkai 38]

Well, I guess heroes are born in times of great tragedy.

Here's one of them, at least I think so anyway.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/122137

Among the 32 people killed by a lone gunman at Virginia Tech Monday is 77-year-old engineering professor, Liviu Librescu, a citizen of Israel. According to eyewitness accounts, Librescu ran to the door of his classroom and blocked it with his body – preventing the gunman from entering but getting shot to death himself as a result.

Alec Calhoun, a 20-year-old student who had been in Librescu's class in room 204, told a reporter that at 9:05 a.m. the heard screams and a loud banging sound from the next-door classroom. When the students realized it was gunfire, he said, some hid behind tables, and others leapt from the classroom's windows. Calhoun himself was among the last to jump. "Before I jumped from the window, I turned around and looked at the professor, who stayed behind, maybe to block the door. He had been killed."quote>

I think that any debates that come from this event should become a new topic. Heck I'm guilty of debating issues in this topic. I think that professor turned hero is a good example how the best of human nature is seen in the worst of human tragedies

[-M- 6]

Another update:

IOL: Gunman left grievance-filled note

Source: http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?from=rss_News&set_id=1&click_id=79&art_id=nw20070417192336653C747325

Blacksburg - A South Korean student railed against "rich kids," "debauchery" and "deceitful charlatans" in a note he left behind before carrying out the deadliest school shooting in US history, US media reported on Tuesday.

The 23-year-old student wrote: "You caused me to do this," in a several-page-long note that he left in his dorm room, ABC News reported.

The note began in the present tense and then shifted to the past tense as Cho Seung-Hui explained his actions amid a rambling list of grievances cited by the Chicago Tribune.

Cho wrote the note in his door room after he killed two people in another dorm room on Monday morning, ABC reported.

Click here!

He then re-armed and went to a classroom building on the other side of campus where he killed 30 more people before shooting himself in the head, sources told ABC.

Cho had also shown recent signs of "violent, aberrant behaviour," including stalking women and setting a fire in a dorm room, investigators in Virginia told the Chicago Tribune.

Authorities found a receipt for a Glock 9 millimetre handgun, bought on March 13, in Cho's backpack which also contained two knives and a cache of bullets, ABC reported.

He bought his second weapon, a .22 calibre pistol, within the last week, ABC reported. - Sapa-AFP

[coolotter88 2]

he must have said to himself

"I'm over 70, I'll probably die from some disease, why not be heroic and go out with a bang."

[JanYpe 17]

Originally posted by: coolotter88 he must have said to himself

"I'm over 70, I'll probably die from some disease, why not be heroic and go out with a bang."quote>

"I survived the holocaust, and I'm gonna yield to a psycho with a handgun now? Oh hell naw!"

The man defines hero, pure and simple.

[Barbarossa 51]

Well, I wouldn't say he defines hero. Heroes live, martyrs die.

Barbarossa

EDIT:  I don't want to misinterpreted... I think the use of Hero is inappropriately used nowadays.  I reread the post and want to say this guy actually did a great thing, which resulted in his death.  I am still not sure Hero is the right word, and I am certainly not looking to upset anyone.  I just think that he did what any decent human being would do in the same situation.

Barbarossa

[Meg 368]

People who throw themselves on a live grenade to save others have long been called heroes.  Seems to me that the professor basically did the same thing. 

[Shoreman905 1]

All of the comments here are most natural in the wake of such an event. May I speak for the citizens of the Commonwealth of Virginia. We have waited and watched in horror as the events unfolded. We all knew kids up there, sons, daughters and family members of friends. VT is an important school to us as are of course our children. We watched the TV hoping to see our loved ones, that way we would know they survived. I am fortunate, my friend's son survived. Others of course did not. It may seem trite to say, but at this point all the Commonwealth should be proud of Virginia Tech and the students, faculty and staff. In the face of such violence they have shown amazing control and maturity. Friday is Orange and Maroon day here in Virginia. All of you are welcomed and encouraged to join in. May God bless all those who suffered loss and may God bless Virginia Tech and the Commonwealth of Virginia.

[defcon pilot 0]

Originally posted by: JanYpe Apparently Fred Phelps and the WBC plan to stage one of their protests at the funerals for the Virginia Tech victims. It seems they'll grab any chance for media coverage they can get. Bunch of hateful vultures. [Edited for content] Marc [Edited for new content!] Me Overruled - Marc Objection! - me I wish I could still be surprised at this, but I'm not.

Originally posted by: defcon pilot...Sarcasm...quote>

Please enlighten us as to how you plan to rehabilitate every criminal and make a profit for the taxpayers while doing so. I'm on the edge of my seat here, really.quote>

I didn't say that.

[Duke87 1,070]

To those saying they should have locked down the campus:

This was addressed in the article in today's USA Today. Basically, campus security said that the school campus was huge, and attempting to lock down everything would not work since there's way too much ground to cover. Even locking down an elementary school is a challenge, locking down an entire college campus with dozens of buildings just isn't practical to attempt.

Now, the police believed the initial shooting was a "domestic incident", i.e. that those who were shot somehow provoked the shooter and after that the situation was over. Now, they didn't know this for sure, but in general the odds that this isn't the case are small. After all, it isn't typical for a gunman to shoot two people, lay low for two hours and then go on a rampage. Usually they just go on the rampage to begin with. Nobody figured on him returning to do more damage. It's easy in hindsight after the fact to say they should have taken more measures to secure things, but keep in mind that what happened was unexpected and unusual. After all, if a man shoots someone in an apartment building and then disappears do you send the entire area into lockdown? No, you don't, because you don't expect him to be going to shoot anyone else unless police corner him. You expect him to run and hide from the cops. So rather than needlessly spreading panic you focus your efforts on finding the guy and arresting him. This is exactly what the police were doing in this case. Standard procedure.

[Goldfish4209 9]

Originally posted by: Joesocwork It solves enough: They are being punished and they are out of society's hair for those years.quote>

Not really, they'll be back with a vengeance.

And I don't really see the point in lockdowns, just tell people to not go to class and surround the campus.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Tragic, but a symptom of our time.  I wonder that the guy's room mate wouldn't have said something to the dorm supervisor or don, or whatever.  It should have been clear to him that this lad needed help.  If you live in the same room with someone who is clearly disturbed, don't you have a duty to both yourself and him to intervene when he appears to me (mentally) ill?

As for what the college should or should not have done, hindsight is 20-20.  Let us take this as a warner for those who would be warned and take steps to prevent such things.

[Simfan34 11]

Please, the president (of both the states and VT) shouldn't be bashed.

[Deever 23]

This event really dominated the news telecasts in South Korea (not to mention their newspapers too). Even their international network Arirang was flooded with news reports of the shooting.

According to what CNN said this morning, this Cho guy wrote disturbing and very violent plays. This further reinforces the fact that something was not right with his head.

[Easy Bakes 253]

  hamsterTK

I don't understand where EasyBakes is coming from

I guess when those sweatshops in 19th century NYC burned up with everyone trapped inside I suppose everyone shouldve just been sad instead of focusing on ways to improve safety conditions?

I think its sort of strange that a double homicide takes place inside the university and the killer is on the loose yet things go on as usual. Sure they had no way of knowing what was about to happen, but out of common sense they shouldve locked down the campus for no other reason that to track down the murderer. I suppose in Virginia if you kill someone the cops have to go get their donuts first before tracking you down, give you a little head start to make it more interesting maybe?quote>

you cant blame to police for this, They followed thier procedures and were treating it as they should have, a domestic shooting. What if  this guy had waited a whole day or a week instead of 2 hours to come back and do this?Thank god there were still some police still around when the rest of the event happend.

 Hindsight and knee jerk reactions help no one when these things happen except to place unnessisary blame  on those who could have done nothing to prevent this.

Originally posted by: Duke87 To those saying they should have locked down the campus:

This was addressed in the article in today's USA Today. Basically, campus security said that the school campus was huge, and attempting to lock down everything would not work since there's way too much ground to cover. Even locking down an elementary school is a challenge, locking down an entire college campus with dozens of buildings just isn't practical to attempt.

Now, the police believed the initial shooting was a "domestic incident", i.e. that those who were shot somehow provoked the shooter and after that the situation was over. Now, they didn't know this for sure, but in general the odds that this isn't the case are small. After all, it isn't typical for a gunman to shoot two people, lay low for two hours and then go on a rampage. Usually they just go on the rampage to begin with. Nobody figured on him returning to do more damage. It's easy in hindsight after the fact to say they should have taken more measures to secure things, but keep in mind that what happened was unexpected and unusual. After all, if a man shoots someone in an apartment building and then disappears do you send the entire area into lockdown? No, you don't, because you don't expect him to be going to shoot anyone else unless police corner him. You expect him to run and hide from the cops. So rather than needlessly spreading panic you focus your efforts on finding the guy and arresting him. This is exactly what the police were doing in this case. Standard procedure.quote>

 

Exactly, you cant totaly shut down what is pretty much  a small town.

I hope the police stand up for themselves and not take any blame for this.

How do you 'Lock down" 1500 acres and a couple dozen buildings with only a 100 or so people? He could have gone and left for more then a couple hours before coming back.

All the blame is on the Nut with the gun.

 

[patfirefghtr 160]

OK here is a small list for every one to read.  This list is of the names of the 
victims WHO were not or most not AMERICAN BORN but attending a prestigues
school or working there. This list is from Yahoo News. - Pat

Ross Abdallah Alameddine

Alameddine, 20, of Saugus, Mass., was a sophomore who had just declared English as his major.

Friends created a memorial page on Facebook.com that described Alameddine as "an intelligent, funny, easygoing guy."

"You're such an amazing kid, Ross," wrote Zach Allen, who along with Alameddine attended Austin Preparatory School in Reading, Mass. "You always made me smile, and you always knew the right thing to do or say to cheer anyone up."

Alameddine was killed in the classroom building, according to Robert Palumbo, a family friend who answered the phone at the Alameddine residence Tuesday.

Alameddine's mother, Lynnette Alameddine said she was outraged by how victims' relatives were notified of the shooting.

"It happened in the morning and I did not hear (about her son's death) until a quarter to 11 at night," she said. "That was outrageous. Two kids died, and then they shoot a whole bunch of them, including my son."

___

Ryan Clark

Clark was called "Stack" by his friends, many of whom he met as a resident assistant at Ambler Johnson Hall, where the first shootings took place.

Clark, 22, was from Martinez, Ga., just outside Augusta. He was a fifth-year student working toward degrees in biology and English, and a member of the Marching Virginians band.

"He was just one of the greatest people you could possibly know," friend Gregory Walton, 25, said after learning from an ambulance driver that Clark was among the dead.

"He was always smiling, always laughing. I don't think I ever saw him mad in the five years I knew him."

___

Daniel Perez Cueva

Perez Cueva, 21, from Peru, was killed while in a French class, said his mother, Betty Cueva, who was reached by telephone at the youth's listed telephone number.

Perez Cuevas as a student of international relations, according to the Virginia Tech Web site.

His father, Flavio Perez, spoke of the death earlier to RPP radio in Peru. He lives in Peru and said he was trying to obtain a humanitarian visa from the U.S. consulate here. He is separated from Cueva, who said she had lived in the United States for six years.

A spokesman at the U.S. Embassy in Lima said the student's father "will receive all the attention possible when he applies" for the visa.

___

Kevin Granata

Granata, a professor of engineering science and mechanics, served in the military and later conducted orthopedic research in hospitals before coming to Virginia Tech, where he and his students researched muscle and reflex response and robotics.

The head of the school's engineering science and mechanics department called Granata one of the top five biomechanics researchers in the country working on movement dynamics in cerebral palsy.

Engineering professor Demetri P. Telionis said Granata was successful and kind.

"With so many research projects and graduate students, he still found time to spend with his family, and he coached his children in many sports and extracurricular activities," Telionis said. "He was a wonderful family man. We will all miss him dearly."

___

Caitlin Hammaren

Hammaren, 19, of Westtown, N.Y., was a sophomore majoring in international studies and French, according to officials at her former school district.

"She was just one of the most outstanding young individuals that I've had the privilege of working with in my 31 years as an educator," said John P. Latini, principal of Minisink Valley High School, where she graduated in 2005. "Caitlin was a leader among our students."

Minisink Valley students and teachers shared their grief Tuesday at a counseling center set up in the school, Latini said.

___

Emily Jane Hilscher

Hilscher, a freshman majoring in animal and poultry sciences, was known around her hometown as an animal lover.

"She worked at a veterinarian's office and cared about them her whole life," said Rappahannock County Administrator John W. McCarthy, a family friend.

Hilscher, 19, of Woodville, was a freshman majoring in animal and poultry sciences. She lived on the same dorm floor as victim Ryan Clark, McCarthy said.

A friend, Will Nachless, also 19, said Hilscher "was always very friendly. Before I even knew her, I thought she was very outgoing, friendly and helpful, and she was great in chemistry."

___

Liviu Librescu

Librescu, an Israeli engineering and math lecturer, was known for his research, but his son said he will be remembered as a hero for protecting students as the gunman tried to enter his classroom.

Librescu taught at Virginia Tech for 20 years and had an international reputation for his work in aeronautical engineering.

"His research has enabled better aircraft, superior composite materials, and more robust aerospace structures," said Ishwar K. Puri, the head of the engineering science and mechanics department.

Librescu's son, Joe, said his father's students sent e-mails detailing how the professor saved their lives by blocking the doorway of his classroom from the approaching gunman before he was fatally shot.

"My father blocked the doorway with his body and asked the students to flee," Librescu's son, Joe Librescu, said Tuesday in a telephone interview from his home outside of Tel Aviv. "Students started opening windows and jumping out."

___

G.V. Loganathan

Loganathan was born in the southern Indian city of Chennai and had been a civil and environmental engineering professor at Virginia Tech since 1982.

Loganathan, 51, won several awards for excellence in teaching, had served on the faculty senate and was an adviser to about 75 undergraduate students.

"We all feel like we have had an electric shock. We do not know what to do," his brother G.V. Palanivel told the NDTV news channel from the southern Indian state of Tamil Nadu. "He has been a driving force for all of us, the guiding force."

___

Mary Karen Read

Read was born in South Korea into an Air Force family and lived in Texas and California before settling in the northern Virginia suburb of Annandale.

Read, 19, considered a handful of colleges, including nearby George Mason University, before choosing Virginia Tech. It was a popular destination among her Annandale High School classmates, according to her aunt Karen Kuppinger.

She had yet to declare a major.

"I think she wanted to try to spread her wings," said Kuppinger, of Rochester, N.Y.

Kuppinger said her niece had struggled adjusting to Tech's sprawling 2,600-acre campus. But she had recently begun making friends and looking into a sorority.

Kuppinger said the family started calling Read as news reports surfaced.

"After three or four hours passed and she hadn't picked up her cell phone or answered her e-mail ... we did get concerned," Kuppinger said. "We honestly thought she would pop up."

(A previous version of this story referred incorrectly to Martinez, Ga., as an Atlanta suburb. It is a suburb of Augusta.)