33 confirmed dead in campus rampage

[jvlm.123 0]

33 dead in US university campus massacre

Monday, 16 April 2007 22:44

At least 32 people were killed by a gunman who then killed himself at Virginia Tech university in the deadliest campus shooting in US history.

15 other people were injured.

US President George W Bush said tonight that schools should be places of safety and sanctuary and learning.

'When that sanctuary is violated the impact is felt in every American classroom and every American community,' he said.

The shootings took place in two separate areas of the campus and police believe a single gunman was responsible.

Police said they were investigating whether the gunman killed himself or was killed by authorities.

Most of the shootings took place at a part of the campus called Norris Hall, according to campus police chief Wendell Finchum.

All classes at the University today and tomorrow were cancelled by the 'This is a tragedy of monumental proportions,' Virginia Tech president Charles Steger told reporters.

It is the deadliest campus shooting in US history, worse than the infamous 1966 incident at the University of Texas in Austin when Charles Whitman went to top of the tower in the middle of campus and opened fire on people 27 stories below.

Whitman killed 15 people, including his mother and wife the night before, and wounded 31 others.

In April 1999 two student gunmen killed 12 other students and a teacher at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado, before killing themselves.

The death toll in Blacksburg is second only to a bombing in 1927 at the Consolidated School building in Bath village, near Lansing, Michigan, that killed 38 children and seven teachers.

Virginia Tech, with 28,000 students, is located in the southwest of the state, about 425km from Washington DC.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0416/virginia.html

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This is such a terrible tragedy, and I would like to give my condolences to the victims, their families, friends and fellow students as well.

[Jasoncw 12,000]

wow that's really bad.

[The boy formerly known as Evil Muzz 27]

The right to bear arms... and walk into a university and shoot everyone in sight before turning the gun on yourself.

[Micah 16]

Sick... just sick. April 16, 2006 will be the date that friends and family in that shooting will never forget.

[JanYpe 17]

Current reports quote 32 dead and at least 28 wounded. This is ugly.

edit Apparently there have been four bomb threats at this uni in the past two weeks, does anybody know more about this?

[Barbarossa 51]

The right to bear arms... and walk into a university and shoot everyone in sight before turning the gun on yourself.quote>

Just to be clear, the problem is not guns, the problem is our society. For the record, I am not a conservative, gun-toting, Jesus-loving, deer-shooting, freedom-hating, pro-militiaman defending my right to own a bazooka for squirrel-huntin'. Quite the opposite. I just don't like people blaming this on the right to bear arms. This is some sick individual with obvious psychological problems who took his frustration out on the society that spurned him. The way it always happens. Look at it this way... in 1300 AD, people were being killed left and right in Europe... was this due to the ultra-aggressive serf, Knight-errant, and priest, or due to the sword and dagger? It was obviously due to society at the time. It is always culture and the access to arms, not the right to own them.

Barbarossa

[patriots_1228 51]

Originally posted by: Barbarossa

The right to bear arms... and walk into a university and shoot everyone in sight before turning the gun on yourself.quote>

Just to be clear, the problem is not guns, the problem is our society. quote>

 

people dont kill people

guns kill people

if you walk into a classroom and yell "Bang" I dont think many people are gonna die.

of course on the other hand people should be able to carry guns, but they should have to pass some test to make sure they are crazy.

either way, this was very sad

[GingerBlokey 30]

I heard 29 dead from BBC a while back, very sad again.

Guns should be banned in the US. Simple as.

[hawkpride147 1]

guns don't kill people...people don't kill people...psychos with guns (or bombs or knives or combat training) kill people. the right to bear arms has nothing to do with this. convicted felons don't have the right to bear arms yet they still manage to get ahold of guns....hmmm....maybe people should all carry guna like in the old west. i mean we didnt have rampages like this back then...someone starts shooting and someone else ends it. seriously this makes me want to be able to carry a gun at school...not to kill people but for protection cuz superman, batman, spiderman, ect don't exist. i don't want to get killed just cuz some overly sensitive wimp got his feelings hurt by a professor. maybe do things like in texas where if someone trespasses on your property then it is legal to shoot them in the front of their body...something like if someone pulls a gun on someone else then it is legal to stop things before they start. again sounds kinda like the old west.

[-M- 6]

Anyone advocating the banning of firearms is looking at the problem from the wrong angle, as with so many other 'issues' and 'problems' in society. Sure, gun control is ONE way to eliminate the problem, but guns aren't the only weapons that can be used anyway.

The root of the problem, upon closer investigation (if anyone would take the effort and time), would not be the fact that that person owns or has access to a gun, nor the fact that that person sees violence on television, the issue is of course of a psychological and sociological nature. And yet people advocate banning firearms. Like the death penalty, you'll do away with the manifestation of the problem and not the problem itself, or solve it for that matter.

I personally believe that the increased number of school shootings has its origin in the socialisation and education of our youth, in particular with the added amount of stress, fast-paced living and the 'hands-off' approach of many parents.

It's not what these people see, watch or are exposed to, but how they are taught to, or not taught to, deal with it that causes these kind of tragedies. Of course, this is only my opinion. But I can say that I did study the sociology of the mass media and we did the Columbine incident as a case study.

[Uumke 0]

terrible,,, big news around here.

OH yeah, just keep weapons legal (ahem ahem, sarcasm (A))

[Barbarossa 51]

people dont kill people

guns kill peoplequote>

What a silly comment. Of course people kill people. Guns don't fire themselves. I am all for gun control, but I am not taking away my ability to protect myself. If we could do away with guns, then great, but it will never happen. Then the only people with guns would be criminals, convicts and religious fanatics in a part of the world I will not discuss.

Personally, I'm all for going back to good ol' swordfights...

Barbarossa

[Hopelandic 0]

Originally posted by: Barbarossa

The right to bear arms... and walk into a university and shoot everyone in sight before turning the gun on yourself.quote>

Just to be clear, the problem is not guns, the problem is our society. For the record, I am not a conservative, gun-toting, Jesus-loving, deer-shooting, freedom-hating, pro-militiaman defending my right to own a bazooka for squirrel-huntin'. Quite the opposite. I just don't like people blaming this on the right to bear arms. This is some sick individual with obvious psychological problems who took his frustration out on the society that spurned him. The way it always happens. Look at it this way... in 1300 AD, people were being killed left and right in Europe... was this due to the ultra-aggressive serf, Knight-errant, and priest, or due to the sword and dagger? It was obviously due to society at the time. It is always culture and the access to arms, not the right to own them.

Barbarossaquote>

 

I agree with the first part, but not that all Jesus-Loving people are also, "Deer shooting, gun toting,freedom hating, pro militia-men." 

So called Jesus loving people want to be like Jesus, not Barbarians. Get your facts straight. 

And we certainly don't like Squirrel Huntin'

I apologize, this was out of line.

[hym 358]

Originally posted by: patriots_1228

Originally posted by: Barbarossa

The right to bear arms... and walk into a university and shoot everyone in sight before turning the gun on yourself.quote>

Just to be clear, the problem is not guns, the problem is our society. quote>

 

people dont kill people

guns kill peoplequote>

Wrenches don't kill people--until someone decides to use it as a lethal weapon.  Pots and pans don't kill people--until some homeowner attacks an intruder with enough force to kill him.  Leather belts don't kill people--until someone uses it to strangle a family member.  The point is that there are all sorts of things that most people don't associate with killing, but they are just as lethal if the person wielding them is determined to kill you with said weapon.  A gun, a wrench, a cooking skillet, or a leather belt are tools, a means towards an end.  The gun doesn't get off its wrack at the gun shop and decide it's going to kill someone.  That decision is made by a human, who then obtains the weapon of his or her choice to help complete their goal.

Also, if someone says that the human is not the weapon used to kill the other individual, and thus, didn't kill the victim, that is likewise dependent on the attacker.  According to two martial arts students and one teacher, the whole purpose of the "aggressive forms" of martial arts is to turn the human body into a weapon.  If you take two individuals, one a martial arts master and the other not, unless the latter individual had a gun, the martial arts master would have a decided advantage.  He may have no weapons other than his own body, but he doesn't need them because he knows how to use his own body as a weapon.  According to dictionary.com, the first definition of a weapon is, "any instrument or device for use in attack or defense in combat, fighting, or war, as a sword, rifle, or cannon."  If a martial arts master can use his own body as a means to kill you--and he most certainly can--his own body counts as a lethal weapon.  For example, the kick from a trained martial arts student can deliver a force of over 2,000 psi, and that's about 800 psi more than the human skull can usually withstand, meaning that a well-placed kick can send bone shards tearing into the victim's brain.

In short, whether you choose to use a gun, a knife, your body, or something else, weapons are available in every form.  The only question is does the human in question decide to take some else's life that day.

[coolotter88 2]

I actually prefer to hunt my squirrels with patriot missiles.

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: GingerBlokey

Guns should be banned in the US. Simple as.quote>

 

That would require a Constitutional amendment and that isn't going to pass any time soon.

Can anyone recall anyone here who goes to Virginia Tech?

[coolotter88 2]

yes of course guns should be banned, because everyone knows its much more fun to bludgeon people to death with baseball bats.

[Sticksboi05 2]

This is just not right.

[spa 970]

Well Americans love their guns but this is the sad side effect. It always puzzles me the response. In Canada we had 14 women killed at Ecole Polytechnique in 1989. The result was much stiffer gun control. In the UK, handguns were banned after Dunblane. The same reaction doesn't seem to happen in the US despite the fact that these types of shootings seem to be coming more and more routine.

Personally, I don't see any reason for anyone, besides law enforcement, to have a handgun or semi-automatic weapons. These weapons have one purpose, to kill human beings. Rifles I get since many law abiding people use them for hunting, but the rest should be gathered up and crushed into cubes.

Other thoughts I have are that the media shoudn't report the names of perpetrators in these type of events. A lot of these people want a kind of infamy. Denying them that by reporting the event, the victims and even details about the perpetrator but not his or her name would eliminate that and might deter some.

Also, police need to get better at preparing for these situations. In the aftermath of Ecole Polytechnique, the Montreal Police revised their procedures. During the Ecole Polytechnique shooting police surrounded the building and waited for backup letting the gunman roam and kill. Now Montrael's police are no longer required to secure the scene and wait for backup. Instead they're suppose to enter the building. The difference was evident in the recent attack at that city's Dawson College. At Dawson, the gunman injured several and killed one person, but he was stopped from inflicting even worse harm because the first officers on the scene pursued him into the building and cornered him (he took his own life when cornered). The difference between Ecole Polytechnique and Dawson is a good example of how taking a more proactive approach can make a huge difference.

[Sproxxx 0]

Estimate now is 31. Very sad

It's days like these that make me ashamed of the human race and how we have failed to become better people. It doesn't matter if it's gun control or psychological and sociological nature or whatever. 31 People are dead because of one person. We all have the power of choice and this one person used it to kill. My condolences to the victims, their families, friends and fellow students as well.

[drevilshenchman 4]

32 people... That is horrific. What could possibly drive someone to take the lives of others? I do not understand how someone could do that, no matter how psychotic

[The boy formerly known as Evil Muzz 27]

This is raised everytime something like this happens, and while the UK still has gun related murder, people don't walk into schools and universities shooting all in sight (except from Dunblane, but that was the only one of it's kind in the UK). I suppose society is to blame, maybe not TV as many people would like to tell you it is, or shocking images in the media. I still place all balme of incidents like this in the hands of the parents, it's no good saying "We tried everything, but nothing would get through." If you haven't stopped violent behaviour in your child, you are not a good parent (exceptions are behavioural issues I guess, but that can't be a scapegoat for all behaviour like this).

[hamsterTK 93]

Creepy,  this surpasses the columbine massacre by a huge margin

I just hope after this constructive changes are made and not the moral panic like after columbine, but then im sure thats going to happen all over again.

Im a hunter and I believe people do have the right to arm, though I dont have a lot of sympathy for automatic/assault/handguns

As for the constituion, If the government really ever flips out and it was the people's duty to overthrow it then in that situation wouldn't it be easier to get military weapons off the black market at that particular point it time?

[Mikeaut1 261]

Wow this is really shocking and terrible. I just learned of this right now. Prayers and condolences to everyone involved in this horrific event.

And following SkiGeek's question, does any one here attend Virginia Tech, know someone who is enrolled there, or lives anywhere near Blacksburg?

[Duke87 1,070]

So 32 killed, 22 wounded.. that means at least 54 shots were fired. That's two bullets short of 8 full clips of ammo. Jeez.

[Barbarossa 51]

I agree with the first part, but not that all Jesus-Loving people are also, "Deer shooting, gun toting,freedom hating, pro militia-men."

So called Jesus loving people want to be like Jesus, not Barbarians. Get your facts straight. quote>

Now, now, don't get your undies in a bunch. I am not insulting Xtians. I am insulting so-called pro-NRA conservatives who love Jesus and think everyone should own a gun. Don't read anything more into what I say than what I say. Besides, you do not live in the US and you have not have a single idea how the American mind works, whether it be Conservative, Liberal, Christian or Atheist.

Barbarossa

EDIT:  I do want to make clear that this is a horrible incident and I am sad to see it occurred.  I do not want my thoughts on gun control to taint the overall big picture... that this should not have happened and that this individual must be mentally disturbed.

[1dera3 29]

This is a tragedy, not a flaming topic. Seriously, take it elsewhere. <- edit: sorry, just a bit in a state of shock...

I really am going to feel unsafe there (if I go), as it was one of my top picks for a college... Escaped prisoners, bomb threats, these students have endured a lot this year... but this!?!? Really unexpected (in a way), in such a small town. It's all over the news here (DC), and will be for at least a week or two. I hope this won't affect the enrollment rates at VT.

Some more sources: (will be on front page for a while)

http://www.wjla.com/

http://www.nbc4.com/

http://www.wjla.com/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/

http://news.google.com/news?q=virginia%20tech&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&um=1&sa=N&tab=wn

Death count between 22-33 including the shooter, depends on your source. And there was a video released on CNN recored on a cell phone by a student:

http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/us/2007/04/16/sot.va.tech.shooting.barghouti.cnn&checkAgain=false&wm=native_nm

I just hope everything can get sorted out down there, and they find a motive for this.

[Hopelandic 0]

Well since this is not a thread for Arguments, I will let it go, but think before you write. You may offend others as well. Whether it be in America or Sweden. and your right 1dera3 I apologize.

My prayers and condolences go out to the victims of this tradgedy.

[patfirefghtr 160]

Gunman, 30 others killed in Va. shooting

By SUE LINDSEY, Associated Press Writer 4 minutes ago

BLACKSBURG, Virginia - A gunman opened fire in a dorm and classroom at Virginia Tech on Monday morning, killing at least 30 people in the deadliest shooting rampage in U.S. history, government officials told The Associated Press. The gunman was killed, bringing the death toll to 31, but it was unclear if he was shot by police or took his own life. 

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This as taken from Yahoo News and man its still sickening anyway you look at.

For the Campus to LACK in LOCK DOWN mode after the first 8 shooting at 7AM is 

ridicules.  In a similair event that took place up here in Northren WI, there was a Bomb

Threat with nothing found thank god but the LAKELAND UNION HIGH SCHOOL went into lockdown for all day. So whats Viginia Techs Excuse is my question.  My god 8 dead people at 7 am then no emails where sent out till about 9:22 am when all the sudden anther 22 people shot dead WHY?

My prayers go out to the Familys that have losted a loved one in this Horrible tragedy - pat

 

[-M- 6]

I agree with Krio. The world is so much bigger than the US, actually. And 32 people cannot compare with the 200 000 in Darfur, especially not when they (the 32) died at the hands of an idiotic individual, whereas the people in Sudan die at the hands of, amongst other things, an idiotic government and international inaction.

This is not the first time such an event has taken place, and I'm sure it will not be the last time. We can sympathise and empathise, pray (lol), hold vigils and all that all we want, but it will not solve the problem! Mature discussion, non-flaming discussion, discourse and debate highlighted the various facets of the issue and the factors that contribute to it might be a step in the right direction.

I think it's about time that the Americans do some introspection and turn their attention inward, to the domestic and internal problems, before running off trying to save the world.