Update To Off-Topic Rules

[beebs 129]

Please note that there has been an update to the Off-Topic Discussion rules. The addition reads as follows.

Rules Update: Please note that the two post rule is in effect for all chat/virtual bars/tavern/cabins and other venues designed for chat on no particular topic. Any disregard of this rule shall be dealt with, first with a warning then a 'time out' for the thread involved. I'll let you imagine as to what that means.

All staff support this update, and any issues with it may be brought up with any moderator or administrator. Discussion and/or questions may be brought up here, and shall be answered ASAP.

[Voar Tok 4]

Nice work there beebs! Like he said, if you have any questions as to what this means, feel free to leave a message here or contact the staff, and we will be happy to explain it to you.

[Meg 368]

Sounds good to me 

[callagrafx 3]

10. Do not double-post. In most cases, you can edit your previous post to include any additional comments. quote>

Is it this rule that is being updated?

Does that include the Live Chat rooms?

And what about if someone deletes a post in between two posts by the same person, giving the appearance of double post?

Rules are meant to be clear and unambiguous, your "update" is neither. Some clarification please.

And why is this being confined to "community" threads?  If you impose a rule, it should cover the entire site...not just those whose function is to bring the community closer together.

[Firebird 40]

Sounds good to me.

*Tries to memorize the whole paragraph*

Err...I think I am going to have trouble remembering this one.....

[jacqulina 162]

it seems to me like the kabin thread and i have been singled out especially by certain moderators who say i'm not creative enough in my posts i didn't know there was a rule that says posts must be creative its not fair for staff to pick on  members just because of the way they post

and also there has been server probs and sometimes a double post is caused by this,and also when two people post at the same time replying to each other and theres beats you and goes in as a double post,that does happen occasionally,i know there is a delete button but its a newish thing and people have to get used to using it,and to checking if a double post has gone in.it happened in the kabin and now it has a warning and that was before the new updated rules.

[The_Family_Guy 2]

I think they would understand if you accidently double posted. But that's easily deleteable. Plus, I don't see why that would involve live chat...they have their own rules over there.

Is the double post rule in effect for the topic starter as well? Or just the "guests"?

I think this is a great rule, because, as membership progresses, the site is becoming inundated with spam.

[callagrafx 3]

Plus, I don't see why that would involve live chat...they have their own rules over there.quote>

Because if you read the updated rules, it says "all chat venues"...that should encompass the chatroom, which is the biggest source of spam and also a great bandwidth hog too.

[jacqulina 162]

they did not understand the one in the kabin that is why i got the warning

[The_Family_Guy 2]

"...chat on no particular topic." I believe that implies the threads only. Nothing is said directly about chat itself.

But, what we really need is someone to answer our questions.

[Voar Tok 4]

Ok, here are some answers to your questions.

callagrafx: No, it doesn't include the chat room as the chat room is an entirely different venue.  Given the fact that the chat room is live, and discussions in there can change from good to bad or vise versa in a hurry, it's sort of hard to make anything but the preliminary rules that we have already a constant.

Also, it's being imposed in the community threads because the community threads have a tendency to be plagued with spam.  If you go to places like General SC4 discussion, you'll notice that the topics have a greater tendency have less spam in them.

jacqulina: No one is being singled out here.  The rule applies to one and all the same.  As for the double post bug, well the time stamp on the message will be pretty good indication whether or not the double post was intentional.

The_Family_Guy: Yep, it applies to everyone.

[DuskTrooper 314]

Excellent! Rules are rules, and it's great to see them being enforced!

[callagrafx 3]

Also, it's being imposed in the community threads because the community threads have a tendency to be plagued with spam. If you go to places like General SC4 discussion, you'll notice that the topics have a greater tendency have less spam in them.quote>

So the aim is to remove spam from ST? In that case, may I suggest you close down all forum games too.

This whole thing is a bit petty and ridiculous really. And actually, the largest occurrences of double posting are in the other forums...just this morning there were 5 in a row from the same member (dsl4c)...You cannot have one rule for community forums and one rule for others. It should apply across the whole of ST.

Excellent! Rules are rules, and it's great to see them being enforced!quote>

Coming from a serial poster with over 11,000 posts does smack of hypocrisy..lurkety lurk lurk indeed.

[Constantina 5]

Will it be enough to stop flaming?

I need to know before I can think of a club.

[____----____ 37]

this is just silly, silly, really this is just silly.
(mayor daley impression^) someone might get it

anyways I think what you consider flaming Constantina and the spam posts that
this rule is intended to prevent are completely seperate issues, and I am sure there is
already a rule on the books, if you will, regarding proper respectfull posting practices,
Because last time i checked you can easily flame someone in just one post. 
get my point?

happy rule making everyone!
Alek

[amal81 3]

This whole thing is a bit petty and ridiculous really. And actually, the largest occurrences of double posting are in the other forums......You cannot have one rule for community forums and one rule for others. It should apply across the whole of STquote>

I agree with that, one rule for all the threads, but what about CJs and BAT threads?

Multiple posts should be allowed if you are updating your CJ, BAT thread, Some Question and Ansewer threads(Trivia and Guessing games) and Omnibus articles but not anywhere else.

Coming from a serial poster with over 11,000 posts does smack of hypocrisy..lurkety lurk lurk indeed.quote>

Hmmm....

[hym 358]

Constantina:  I can't say that the rule in-and-of-itself will necessarily stop flaming.  Spamming and flaming are different problems, and this rule is primarily to stop spamming.

If anyone finds a post that is flaming another member (or otherwise being derogatory), please contact a mod or admin and staff will take the appropriate action.

[jacqulina 162]

i will now mention the happy birthday thread as an example of me being singled out,i had posted in the thread every morning on my rounds of simtropolis for 71 days and my posts were to say happy birthday in 5 different ways,for example HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO ALL WHO HAVE ONE TODAY.can anyone tell me what i have done wrong in this message to these people please,as all 71 posts were deleted and i was told by Mc6ASH  not do it in capitals and to be more creative i was spoke to like a small child,i didnt think you had to put happy birthday in a specific way,i might not be creative in my posting i am however in my art and my work,i love simtropolis but its becoming so you cannot have fun anymore.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Well, the first rule of making rules is not to make any.

The second rule is if you must, you must, when forced to do so.

The third is to enforce them with a grain of salt.

We have always done that.  I don't think any of us are rigid thinkers.  While freedom of expression is precious, it is not free.  Part of the cost is to think what you are doing.

I agree with the rule, but regret its necessity.

[The_Family_Guy 2]

I must say, this has gotten a bit out of hand. The problem is, there are very vague definitions of spamming.

We should either establish very strict spamming guidelines (hard and pointless), or leave it up to the discretion of the Mods, who work for the site, and are instilled with the responsibility of looking out for the welfare of this forum.

Posting is an easy thing to do, and we must all examine what we write and determine it's validity within the topic. Some forums require deep thought and others (namely the forum games) are short-answer, simple responses (e.g. my FG thread, and most of the cabins/clubs, etc.).

So, it should be up to the admins and mods, etc., to establish what is and is not spam, and conform those thoughts and actions to each individual sub-forum, while keeping the sight clean, and the people happy.

[Vandy 110]

< VANDY enters the thread carrying the enforcer -- his trusty baseball bat.  Realizing that such heavy-handed tactics aren't necessary for such a thread, he puts it away and, sitting down in front of his keyboard, starts to type...  >

Hi, All.

I considered posting this in Jacky's Kabin but quickly realized that for this message to be most effective, I would have to post it in every off-topic conversation-oriented thread.  Fortunately, Beebs created the perfect venue in which I can post my comments.

The use of (and, in some people's eyes, abuse of) this type of thread has become a very hot issue -- one that has succeeded in raising tempers, causing consternation and confusion and hurt more than one person's feeling.

As nice as these types of threads are (and I enjoy them myself), it is very easy to forget that they are actually threads in a Forum and not chat.  Coupled with the Rules of SimTropolis, it can quickly become an issue with the staff and membership.

While I don't believe that double-posting is Spam, nor do I believe that carrying on a conversation in a thread is wrong, I must respect the rules as handed down by the SimTropolis Staff.  Consequently, I'd like to share a few thoughts as to how conversation-oriented threads can be maintained within stated policies, be sellf-policing" as well as still fun and attract active readers and posters.

Working Within Stated Policy
By far, this is probably one of the most difficult task to accomplish and still keep a conversation-oriented thread viable and "alive".  One of the best methods I've seen use and that I myself try and use is to consolidate posts.  What do I mean by this?  For example:
----------
Me:  Hi, You.  How are you today?

You:  Doing great.  What have you been up to lately?

Me:  Not much.

You:  'Bout the same.

Him:  Hey, Me.  It's been slow here as well.

Him:  Hi, You.  Not much happening.

Me:  Hi, Him.  Wazzup?

She:  Hi, everyone.

Me:  Hi, She.

You:  Hi, Him.  nuttin' much!

You:  Howdy, She!  How are you doing?

She:  Hi, Me.

She:  Hi, You.  Doing pretty good.
----------

You get the picture, right?  The above is more like the type of exchange you would expect to see in a chat room.  Okay.  Now to consolidate this exchange, it might go something like this:
----------

Me.  Hi, Everyone.  How are y'all today?

You:  Hi, Me.  Doing pretty good.

Him:  Hey, Me.  Getting through, my man, getting through.

Me:  Hey, You.  I'm glad you're doing pretty good.  So what are you planning on doing today?

        Hi, Him.  I know about getting through.  Hey, how did it go with that project of yours?

She:  Hi, everyone.

Me:  Hi, She.  How are you today?

You:  Hey, Me.  Well, I've got to study for a test -- YUCK -- and plan on trying to develop a city.

         Hi, Him.  Getting through it better than not getting through!

        Hi, She.  What's up with you today?

She:  Hi, Me.  Doing pretty good today.  I got an A on my history test.

          Hey, You.  Really great today.  Did you get that new job you were telling us about?
----------

As you can see, consolidating posts is nothing more than replying to more than one person in a single post.  Doing this will avoid double posting but still allow the conversation to have a natural flow.

Self-Policing A Thread
This should be a self evident explanation.  As the participants in a thread are ultimately the ones that will both enjoy the thread and its direction and suffer from its misdirection, it should be obvious that having the members council other member's rules infractions will result in the thread being a better place for all as well as keeping the Staff "out" of the thread's business.

A polite word to someone double posting, a word of warning to someone flaming or getting close to any of the myriad "edges of trouble", a chastisement and report to the Staff for someone blatantly and uncaringly breaking the rules or harassing participants -- all of these can be considered forms of self-policing a thread.

Having Fun and Attract New Participants
I truly believe that NO ONE -- Staff or participants -- desires that people not have fun when interacting in a thread.  That would be so counterproductive to the health of ANY Web site.  The SimTropolis membership demographics are very broad -- young members, middle-aged members and old members (no offence to any group, please -- I, myself, am one of the "old fogies" on Staff) and it would be ludicrous to believe that we all think and act the same.  Nonetheless, there is a framework within which we all can operate -- the Rules of SimTropolis. 
Even within that framework, using the suggestions I've outlined above, we should all still be able to have fun and great interaction amongst ourselves.

Okay.  I've taken enough of your time.  Thanks to all who actually read through this entire post and I truly hope that you will take to heart the comments I've made.  Life's too short to not have fun.

Regards,

Vandy

[callagrafx 3]

waaaa he's doing it again!!!!

Vandy, once again a voice of reason in a sea of madness....I always read what you post, despite the length

[DuskTrooper 314]

Originally posted by: callagrafx

Excellent! Rules are rules, and it's great to see them being enforced!quote>

Coming from a serial poster with over 11,000 posts does smack of hypocrisy..lurkety lurk lurk indeed.quote>

quote>

I've been here for over 3 years.  You have been here for  just over one year(at this date, about one year, and 4 months).  Your Posts Per Day number(10) is higher than mine(about 9) is.  Of course, the majority of my posts in the past were in a BAT thread that got many replies, and thus, needed many replies from me.  Hypocrisy, indeed.  Tiskety tisk tisk tisk...

[callagrafx 3]

Actually, I think most of your posts just read "please post any BAT requests in the official BAT request thread, thank you" or just a picture saying the same thing. By definition, repetitive posts like that are considered SPAM too

Have a nice day

[Vandy 110]

   All right, "children".  Fight nice.   

Regards,

Vandy

[DuskTrooper 314]

Originally posted by: callagrafx Actually, I think most of your posts just read "please post any BAT requests in the official BAT request thread, thank you" or just a picture saying the same thing. By definition, repetitive posts like that are considered SPAM too

Have a nice dayquote>

Yes, it is indeed a beautiful day outside!  The sun is shining, it isn't too warm, and there is a gentle breeze blowing.  And the enforcement of rules/the directing of people to the proper place isn't spam.  I mean, it's the same thing, if someone constantly helps people in "where do I find..how do I do.." threads that can be found scattered all over this site.  All of these incidents, however, could be avoided if people would search, post things where they belong, and obey the rules in the first place. 

Perhaps I'd do the BAT request thing less, if the moderators would crack down on BAT requests more.  The thing is, I have contacts with a few moderators, but, they are powerless, since the imbecilic BAT requests are posted in a forsaken place that is out of their reach.

So, yeah, I hope you don't have too many clouds over your head, either

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: jacqulina

and also there has been server probs and sometimes a double post is caused by this,and also when two people post at the same time replying to each other and theres beats you and goes in as a double post,that does happen occasionally,i know there is a delete button but its a newish thing and people have to get used to using it,and to checking if a double post has gone in.it happened in the kabin and now it has a warning and that was before the new updated rules.quote>

 

There seems to be some confusion here.  The issue isn't double posts.

The two post rule means that after Person A posts, Person B and Person C must post before Person A posts again.

[____----____ 37]

hands the callagrafx and DT oversized novelty boxing gloves so they can fight nice

---this was a spam post---

[Vandy 110]

Originally posted by: SkiGeekThere seems to be some confusion here.  The issue isn't double posts.

The two post rule means that after Person A posts, Person B and Person C must post before Person A posts again.quote>

 

Hi, SkiGeek.

Thank you for that clarification.  I, for one, really appreciate your input on this issue.

Regards,

Vandy

[callagrafx 3]

The two post rule means that after Person A posts, Person B and Person C must post before Person A posts again. quote>

That rule can only be found in the forum games section...apply that to the rest of the forums and you may as well shut up shop and go home. What is this site becoming?