Update To Off-Topic Rules

[beebs 129]

Originally posted by: Rymac91 Ok...veering off from the debate to ask a question...What does the ST Closet count as? It's a social non topic based thread but at the same time it is based on a single topic...also...basing off this logic...does the house of worship count under this aswell?quote>

It's not included, no. Only the online lounges/cafes are included.

[TheCrybKeeper 287]

Originally posted by: owenluby What we need is a clear, precise definition of what SPAM really is.quote>

 

I have been saying that for quite awhile now. Even I, myself have pushed the bounderies on what spam really is.

I ask that question everywhere and still,.....get very little details, as it seems to be defined differently at every web community.

I can plug bands here at ST, in the Off  Topic forum, by creatively using the topic titles and also taking consideration, that I am not spamming my own wares, but the wares of others.

My Sig is spamming myself, but this is non-profit and actually considered my blog journal. Which is also, turned into a spam haven for other members and not myself.

These little loopholes are easy to find and are legitimate posts, until someone clears up the definition of spam at Simtropolis specifically.

Don't get me wrong though. If my posts become spam here in the future, then that is okay also.

EDIT: Well hehee, you all know me. I really didn't want the HOW and CLOSET threads either, as they are more than just individual, off-topic subjects. More like entire life-styles, dealing with many interwoven topics, that could start debates. This could be good or bad, depending on Simtropolis' desire for forums within forums.

[DioAngel 1]

Well said! :-) Nice posts!

[Craig-Abcvs 1,595]

Sun - June 3, 1800.  (actually I started typing this at 1540...)

I have just finished reading every page of the old Kabin thread from page 197 - 255.

It has taken me 2 days!  - LOL.

(Well actually not LOL,  more - sitting very contemplatively thinking about the whole 2PR mess. .... debacle springs to mind) 

It makes me feel really sad.  

The Kabin went through quite a storm - I am glad that it survived.  It is one of my favourite places on ST along with the Factory.

I guess I am coming from the perspective of someone on the outside looking in - my experience of the Kabin has only been well after the dung had stopped flying and people had adjusted...   (well have they really?)

I offer these comments not as a brand new person with a couple of posts shooting off at the mouth, but as a relatively new member that has been around long enough to get a feel for the rules, etiquette, and culture of ST.   I hope that I have earned the right to make an informed comment now.

The only reason why I am bringing this up now ...

(I am getting the idea that some folks would rather I didn't ..)

is that in my personal experience over the last month since I joined ST,  the 2PR seems to be a very heavy handed way of dealing with problem posts. (The 2PR applies to both in the Kabin and Factory - not to the entire OT forum)

Having read, PMed and MSNed over the last couple of days, I have concluded the following. 

• There was a problem in Sept 2006, with how some people were posting.  (in the eyes of some that is)
• Some people think that "chat" should be confined to a chat room only and a "thread" is for serious discussion on a specific topic only. 

• (Who makes these rules - whose intepretation is correct? The internet is not that old, and it is dynamic rather than, static with a list of rigid predefined rules)

• Internet chat between 2 people has many forms - live verbal with as with VOIP, MSN etc ... typed quick fire (in a chat rooms or MSN)

• ... or a more sedate pace say 6 posts back and forth over an hour(s) or even days in a thread
• Who is it to say what is the "correct" or "acceptable" form of chat?

• Some people think that a site like ST should be only for discussion about SC - that Off -Topic has no place.
• (I think that there are more than one or two people who would disagree with that - the OT forum looks like a pretty popular place to me)

• A couple of people got a bit silly, trying to up their post count.
• Some people got offended by other's posting style

• Nothing that I have read was anything terrible - just happy chatter amongst friends.
• A new rule was imposed that was very unpopular to the people it directly affected.
• It would appear the rule was devised in the private back staffrooms of ST without first getting any input, comment, or discussion from those that it would directly affect.  (I am happy to be informed to the contrary.)

• Very little warning was given (at least publicly) that such a measure was being considered - let alone implemented.
• Little was done to try and get people to post differently voluntarily - by making a guideline, rather than an inflexible rule.
• Little or no effort was made to find a less draconian solution to a posting problem that in my opinion was not serious or life threatening.
• One moderator got a bit over excited with the enforcement ... rule implemented on the 28/9/06 and quickly esculated to giving out heavy handed warnings a day or 2 later .... before people had a chance to adjust.

• People got upset. (Doh!)

• Much heated and passionate discussion on 1 October 2006.  (My goodness .... not pleasant reading)

• How much more constructive could the problem have been solved if this discussion could have taken place before the rule was handed down...

• People did not appreciate being treated like children or spoken to disrespectfully - member or moderator.
• The rule makers were not (at least it appeared that way) prepared to listen to the people it directly affected and perhaps come up with a better, less punitive solution.
• I accept that the Mods made themselves available to receive PM's on the subject - of course I do not know whether people did or not.

• The Mod for the thread was left to enforce a hugely unpopular rule that they claimed not to have a part in making.

• The attitude appears to be - you have all been naughty children - we have decided - get on with it or else (we close the whole thing down - take it or leave it).
• The rule makers were not prepared to back down, amend or change the rule ... it has stuck ever since ....
• I note that at the time (from what people have told me) there was "a rash" of clubs, chatter threads, whatever you want to call them.
• As of today only two such threads have survived the rule change - the Kabin and the Factory.
• It would appear that the old story of the actions of a few spoil it for the majority.
• The whole class got caned as a whole rather than dealing with people individually.
• A blanket rule was easier to make rather than having to deal with people on a personal basis. 

• A polite PM to suggest, ask, that people post differently?

So what is my point in all of this?  Why have I gone to so much trouble to research the background to all of this and potentially open a messy can of worms that seems to have settled?

That is because in my opinion the 2PR is a dinosaur, a sledgehammer to knock in a thumb tack and I suggest that there are better ways of dealing with people who spam one word or very short posts.

The questions that  I now ask are:

Is this rule still necessary in its strictest sense?

How strictly is this rule currently being enforced?

Have we all calmed down enough to look at this again?

Can posters be trusted to be sensible enough to carry out a meaningful conversation on a meaningful topic - albeit within the Kabin or Factory?

Can the members of the Kabin and the Factory be trusted to quietly and sensibly 'self-police' posts that are bordering on being  spammish?

For example ... I live in New Zealand, our evening is when the USA and Canada are asleep and the UK is at work or school.

Would it be acceptable for me to have a sensible topical discussion within either the Kabin or Factory (both of which I frequent everyday) with a person from my own time zone or close to it.  - or even some one else who happened to be online at the same time. 

As the rule currently stands I would not be able to.

BTW - I have only looked in the chat room once and left pretty quickly - didn't understand a word and not my kind of place.

I am not talking about going back to quick one line:

Hi

how are you

I'm fine

bye

... type posting.

[any one who is familiar with my posting style would realise that my posts are a little longer... ]

They better not bring in a word limit... smirk...

I maintain that the type of posts in the Kabin and Factory that I have seen over the last month or so, do have a topic or purpose - it just changes from day to day.

I would suggest that it is quality conversation ... IMHO.

If people do not like this type of thread the solution is simple ... don't read them.  Don't post in them.  Go somewhere that you do like. 

This is not rocket science.

This is a serious question being made by someone who has put a lot of thought and research into this before commenting.

I would hope that the members, mods, administrators would be prepared to look at this again - calmly and give the 2PR some reconsideration, an overhaul, or even better in my opinion revoke it and replace it with a less harsh guideline.

I would appreciate people's thoughts and comments, 8 months on from the rule change .... please please keep it civil and sensible - I have no desire or intention to stir up the hornets nest all over again.

Yours most sincerely

Craig - ABCVS

Remember to breathe people remember to breathe .....

[mqsim 1]

well said, when i am online there is usally only about 10 people online at a time so it is hard to keep up with the 2PR. So Craig iam with you and all the other people that agree

Mqsim

[Craig-Abcvs 1,595]

Addit: I am fully aware that this site is not a democracy ... that it is a Dirktatorship - however even good kings listen to the petitions of their subjects....

I find it interesting that the first person to add to my post is in fact someone from my own country and timezone -

thanks Mason.

This reinforces my point about we the subjects of the Good King Dirk in the antipodes, that is the South Pacific, being awake while the US and Canada sleeps ... 

[MsD 0]

Craig: Your message was very well put. I applaud your effort. Only time will tell if the powers that be will even read your post.

Yes, you have brought up some old wounds, some of which are still sore. So I will refrain from anymore comments and just - - breathe

[DioAngel 1]

WELLL SAID CRAIG!!!! Very oustanding message!!! *thumbs up*

[Craig-Abcvs 1,595]

I have received a response from one of the Administrators of ST and they are currently discussing this issue in the staff room.

They are willing to look at the two post rule again,  however they remain concerned at how the issue of problem spam posts can be effectively controlled if the two post rule is relaxed.

There would need to be a very clear and easy to understand guideline to replace the rule ...

Almost a rule but not quite.  Stay tuned, and thank you for everyones patience and level headedness.

In the mean time class, please sit up straight, fold your arms and be on your best behaviour - you never know ... if we are very very good we may get a royal visit from the Good King Dirk himself.

[jacqulina 162]

thats good news craig,keep fingers crossed

dirk visited the site yesterday

[DioAngel 1]

Excellent news my friend! *fingers crossed with Jacky*

[LarksTonguesInAspic 28]

May I pop in? My apologies for: 1.) Being kindofa lurker, I am attempting to rectify this currently but still learning. 2.) I have a tendecy to annoy with bombastic speech, it's not that I dislike people in general but I am a black and white sorta guy and my views will clash with those who have differing personality traits/viewpoints; it's the way things seem to be and I will attempt to control myself. Please bear with me as I try to keep from being locked out, as I really desire to add to my SimKnowledge and this is the only viable choice (SC4 Devotion ignores my membership requests) in this aspect. I would also like to expand my connections in the SC4 community, and to this end I will give out my email address, at risk to myself: proggfroggy@yahoo.com.