Boston Central Artery/Tunnel Project (Big Dig)

[Alkaola 18]

breathtaking BAT .. we REALLY need this in the game

thanks for making it ( and releasing it )

[sloppet 3]

every update is better than the previous one! You rock man!

[Madhollander 0]

Great work, looks fantastic and would be a great addition to the game.

I was wondering though, how will it be pathed, will we have to build some underground section as well to attach the 2 parts of will it be pathed from on tunnel on/offramp to another without middle pieces ?

great work so far

[Meastro444 1]

i think it will be a road subway traffic converter type of thing.

but what will you do to keep te different kinds of road trafic appart?

because i dont think that one will make one type of traffic into 3 kinds of road trafic

Meastro444

[Andreas Roth 629]

Originally posted by: Meastro444 i think it will be a road subway traffic converter type of thing.

but what will you do to keep te different kinds of road trafic appart?

because i dont think that one will make one type of traffic into 3 kinds of road traficquote>

 

Actually, you can do this with the right set of transit switch properties. All stations are not much more than transit-type converters - so if a pedestrian enters a bus station, he is converted into a bus passenger, and if a sim who is riding a car enters a rail station, he is converted to a rail passenger. For some reason, Maxis forgot to add one set of transit switch properties to rail stations, this leads to the strange fact that Sims leave their home by car, park it at the next rail station and go by train, but when they return, they have to walk or catch a bus to get home.

The BAT that is developed here will accept car and bus passengers and convert them to subway passengers for ingoing traffic. Outgoing subway traffic will be converted to car and bus passengers as well, so depending on the destination of a sim, he will either take a bus that is "waiting" at the tunnel transition or get one of the cars that are "parked" there. The only thing that doesn't work is letting freight trucks through the tunnel, and obviously, emergency and UDI vehicles can't pass it as well, since the tunnel is merely a subway tube, and not a road.

[blahdy 21]

Originally posted by: Andreas Roth

Originally posted by: Meastro444 i think it will be a road subway traffic converter type of thing.

but what will you do to keep te different kinds of road trafic appart?

because i dont think that one will make one type of traffic into 3 kinds of road traficquote>

 

Actually, you can do this with the right set of transit switch properties. All stations are not much more than transit-type converters - so if a pedestrian enters a bus station, he is converted into a bus passenger, and if a sim who is riding a car enters a rail station, he is converted to a rail passenger. For some reason, Maxis forgot to add one set of transit switch properties to rail stations, this leads to the strange fact that Sims leave their home by car, park it at the next rail station and go by train, but when they return, they have to walk or catch a bus to get home.

The BAT that is developed here will accept car and bus passengers and convert them to subway passengers for ingoing traffic. Outgoing subway traffic will be converted to car and bus passengers as well, so depending on the destination of a sim, he will either take a bus that is "waiting" at the tunnel transition or get one of the cars that are "parked" there. The only thing that doesn't work is letting freight trucks through the tunnel, and obviously, emergency and UDI vehicles can't pass it as well, since the tunnel is merely a subway tube, and not a road.quote>

Great information, Andreas!   Thanks

BTW, in real-world Boston tunnels, hazardous materials are prohibited in tunnel system, so freight trucks not working doesnt seem too bad   they should be travelling over industrial loop highways (depending on how you design your city layout) anyway... 

[Andreas Roth 629]

Well, you rarely see freight trucks in the downtown of a city anyway (in the game I mean), since the trucks leave the industrial lots and head straight to the next city border.

[blahdy 21]

Okay, question for all you modders..

Is it possible for a transition model to have more than one subway "stations" and highway connection _and_ more than one road/one-way road connections all at the same time?

For elevated model, I'm thinking of having the highway come out of the ground, go elevated, but this model will use all 4 or 5 lanes on each side, instead of just 3. If using 5 lanes, two lanes on outbound side will split off to "exit only" lanes, then drop into off-ramp after getting on the elevated segment.  Likewise, on inbound side, two lanes will be added by an on-ramp, starting at the elevated segment.

Possible?

BTW.. Current ETA for version 1.0 release to STEX: July 22, 06

[Andreas Roth 629]

As far as I know, every lot that is designated as "subway station" will have one tile that is visible in underground view, where you can connect the subway tube(s). Connecting more than one type of road/oneway road/highway is possible as well, but only one type per tile. All lots have to be rectangular, so if you intend to create some exit lanes, they have to go to the border of the lot somewhere (on a tile) beside the highway connection. I don't know anything about pathing (for the car automata), maybe ardecila, Swamper77 or qurlix can help with this issue.

[lrfox 2]

Can't wait to see how this turns out after modding. Blahdy- you've done a lot of work over a short period of time and it looks great.

[blahdy 21]

Thanks Andreas.  I plan to have each transit network's "hook" (i.e. road connections for off/on-ramp, highway connection, subway connection, etc) on their own dedicated tile.  Do you think its possible to have two subway hooks on one lot, as long as they are in two different tiles?  I am thinking, since the highway tunnel entrance takes 2 lots, we could hook up two subways, one for each direction.  I think that would make more sense in terms of realism if that were to be possible..

And... thanks everyone for your support!  That's the only thing that keeps the project going.. really.

Okay, lights are pretty much done, and I think Type2GHT (ground highway to underground transition) is pretty much done now, clearing way for working on the next model:

Note that inside the tunnel is all flourescent/blue-ish white lights, however lately they changed every lights of the outter transition area (the segment just as you enter the tunnel) to yellow/orange lights.  Personally I don't really like it, but from what I heard, they did that because during daytime, it was hard for drivers to see what's inside the tunnel as they drive into the transition portal because the white lighting would easily get overwhelmed by the sun light.  Yellow light makes it easier for drivers to see the tunnel on the approach, reducing the chance of accidents..

Gmax shot on approach:

Gmax shot, just as you are about to enter the tunnel:

[newyorkrunaway1 110]

just amazing!!!! 100% the best thing for this game in ages!!!

[blahdy 21]

Thanks!

And.. the back side looks particularly cool during night time..

[blahdy 21]

Okay, for the next transition model that will be included in 1.0 stex release, I am thinking of something more neat probably a mini, small interchange that consists of elevated HW and tunnel portals. 

But.. you gonna have to wait for now, because I gotta get some RL work done:

Credit goes to tag_one for the funny messages on his latest subway project

[vester_DK 477]

LOL: Like the text on the sign.

What progress, what progress !!! Looks absolutely amazing ! Looking forward for the release.

[simzebu 20]

Did you photoshop real life pictures, or is this BAT ABSOLUTELY AMAZING!?

And as far as matching the lines, I think the SC4 highway lines are too short as it is. Perhaps a modd to lenghten them, rather than yours?

[Andreas Roth 629]

What vester said!

About the subway transition: I don't know if it's possible to add two subway connectors. All subway lots I've seen so far show a single connector tile; I don't even know if it's a prop or some special piece. Maybe someone else has more knowledge than me. I agree that dedicated tubes would be nice, although that's only a visual thing, esp. since you wouldn't have a chance to build "normal" subway "across" your "highway tunnel".

[Meastro444 1]

nice to know the ETA, but there is one thing that i think does'nt look good, and that is were your bat highway textures meet the SC4 textures. could you make some kind of 'transition to that?

Meastro444

[Pepster 1]

when is this project about to be finished (i mean the conectors for SC4), im very much in to the idea of "sink" several parts of highways and also i rather to build a tunnel than a bridge when it comes to conect 2 shores...

[petriknl 15]

wow .. this wil be so cool!

[hamsterTK 93]

that front on view of the tunnel could be really handy to modify for cj purposes...

"Here our car comes up to the entrance to the underground highway network blah blah blah"

blahdy's pic+cleaned up and skyline added+some cars

BTW, someone mentioned fixing the lines on the normal freeway to match up with the lines on the entrance. IMO making a road texture out of that concrete texture blahdy is using would be awesome

[Andreas Roth 629]

Ok, some not so good news... There might be a work-around, but from what I have seen so far, the game doesn't convert subway passengers back to car passengers, although I created a set of transit switch properties for it (maybe that's why Maxis didn't include a rail-to-car property set - highly unrealistic, if you ask me). Bus-to-subway and subway-to-bus works fine, though. Also, it looks like you can't control where the subway connector shows up. I plopped two lots (where I used Marrast's avenue underpass model), and the connector showed up on different tiles. NDEX was working on a freeway transition, so they might have found a better way to control this - I'm not exactly a network expert, so I can only report what I've seen in my preliminary tests.

EDIT: I had another look at the NDEX thread, and it seems that my previous assumption is not true - I guess my attempt didn't work because I have no custom paths etc. Looking at this pic, I'd say, everything will work fine once the modding is done.

[ardecila 125]

Yup, it'll work as intended. Also, I'd remove bus functionality from these lots, personally. That makes it act as a bus stop, which has a lot of side effects.

You don't usually see city buses on the highways, anyway.

[GMT 389]

soo great

[blahdy 21]

Thanks Andreas & Ardecila for looking into the modding aspect.. good to check into this before we go any further with too much work

Okay, what you are about to see will be the last component that will be worked on for Version 1.0 release with exception of Type-2 off-ramps which will be just on-ramps with signs off.   Continuing version releases after 1.0 will contain more off-ramps/on-ramps, vent buildings, etc, but we have to cut a line somewhere, or else we will never end up releasing anything to STEX and continue working on this forever..

The last component of 1.0 release is what will transform your underground highway network into elevated highway, but through a magnificent hallmark of the Big Dig project -- the Leonard P. Zakim Bunker Hill Memorial Bridge, the world's widest cable-stayed bridge, and the official terminus of Big Dig project where the underground highway network terminates and transitions into the old-styled I-93 elevated via-duct after crossing the Zakim bridge.

The bridge conversion/transition lot will be a fixed-length bridge, to signiffy the specific length of this unique landmark.  It will require water in between, but you won't be able to freely size its length like you would with a real Maxis bridge.

Zakim bridge picture:

Beginning of perhaps the most complicated work so far in this BAT project.  This one will take LONG, which is why I'm drawing the line here for version 1.0 release to meet expected deadline:

[sloppet 3]

This is awesome! Great work blahdy!

[Andreas Roth 629]

blahdy, it might be even more work, but have you considered creating a model for a real bridge, like jeronij did recently? Look at the "Double Decker Bridge" thread in the "Modding - Transit Network" forum to see what I mean. I don't know if it's possible with a model like the one you're going to develop, but it would be awesome to actually use that bridge in the game, rather than plopping it as a "useless" landmark lot. Just a thought, though.

[blahdy 21]

Originally posted by: Andreas Roth blahdy, it might be even more work, but have you considered creating a model for a real bridge, like jeronij did recently? Look at the "Double Decker Bridge" thread in the "Modding - Transit Network" forum to see what I mean. I don't know if it's possible with a model like the one you're going to develop, but it would be awesome to actually use that bridge in the game, rather than plopping it as a "useless" landmark lot. Just a thought, though.quote>

Well.. the only problem with that is the Zakim Bunker Hill Bridge was never designed to be a long or even medium lengthed bridge -- it can't.  It's too wide and there's too much weight on it that it would become too unrealistic if I let people just drag this bridge across a long harbor -- in reality, such bridge would collapse.

The bridge here is designed to be short bridge that quickly crosses over a small city river (i.e. Charles river in Boston) or even BSC/SimGoober canal set but in a really nice and symbolic form.  The lot will function w/o any problems, because functional-wise, this fixed-length bridge is not any more different than a simple underground-highway-to-elevated-highway transition lot. 

Now... if you are interested in more realistic *true* bridges people can build without fixed length, there are actually long cable-stayed bridges Bechtel, etc are building right now in South Carolina, that look similar to the Zakim bridge.  I think those modern bridges would make much more sense to model after for non-fixed-length bridges... Something I will consider making later down the road ofcourse!

[blahdy 21]

And work is continuing... a lot of foundation/rebalancing work to make things begin to take shape... still loong way to go!

[canuck3360 14]

That is amazing Blahdy I'm really Happy to see someone takling the Bridge as well as the Tunnels and Vent Builds and so on,and If seeing it Right the Bridge is right at the Bank North Gardens in Boston.

Keep it up