Petition To The Bosses - Seperate Map STEX

[moganite 4]

one thing i see with the BATers is that it appears to be dominated by one or 2 cliques that have a steady stream of content and competing for dominance were new BATers/ loters aren't posting thier lots and BATS for evaluation as in other words. The BATing/toting commutity doesn't cut new BATters much slack. Also the steady stream isn't spectacular and it appears to ba a series of buildings that while they look like they are diferent and unique aren't pusshing many boundaries. There are industries that are not even represented. While this doesn't apply to all BATers and some BATers are trying new ideas I find it odd that there is alot of building that look the very similar and generic.

There are also mising areas for mods. For example i am looking for a mod or mods to depict Australian terrains and fin a lot of mods for different climates etc but none that meet my needs. I am in the position of having to learn how to mod just to make my landscapes look like Australian ones simply because no modder has atempted it and few people that are modders have any experince of the Australin landscape.

Both of these points are valid for maps. The mapping community has about a dozen members Alot of them new and still getting experince. The most experinced mappers that are active are justin and blake and mallow and they do the best they can. but we need more people with an eye to detail and the same skills as the BATers as far as use of graphics programs that are prepared to take some time and thought on maps. The community could support something like 20 mappers and 80 BATers easily but fewer than this are present why?

The other point i would like to make is that without the creations fo the BATers and mappers and loters would the CJs be as good and would our creations get the exposure they need without the CJers. We are an ecosystem of symbiotic creators each with different talents and we would be wasting our time preying on each other.

[Vandy 110]

Hello, All.

I've abstained from posting to this interesting thread lately because of the tone the thread has been taking.  It is really a shame that a group of people cannot discuss a very real concern/subject without making it personal or "slinging back" when it is perceived (rightly or wrongly) that one is "being attacked".  It would certainly be nice to keep our correspondence above that level.

Having stated the above, I have re-read the posts in this thread and, after having spent some time at the STEX interface, would like offer a re-evaluation of a Separate MEX for ST.

I am on ST every weekday most of the day and check it quite freqeuntly for new posts, new STEX uploads, etc.   When I check the STEX and see yet another map, I tend to look right past it to see if there is anything else of interest.  Unfortunately, this has become the norm for me given the large influx of maps on the STEX.

This is not a "slam" against map makers and I would ask that any map maker take a moment, breath deeply and understand what I just said.  I am a map maker myself (not as prolific as some, not as good as some).  To be honest, the reason I have stopped uploaded new maps is because of the large amount of them being posted -- I don't want to "take away" from others who are trying to post their own creations.

While I still wonder if a separate MEX might be a good idea, I have to re-evealuate my initial response to the question given the time I've spent learning and (yes, finally) using the STEX interface.

Background -- How the STEX Works Today

Currently, there two types of filters on the STEX - File Types -- along the left hand side of the interface -- and (my title) Categorized Types -- along the top of the interface below the green page buttons.

Thre are seven different File Type filters offered on the STEX as follows:

All Files -- A complete listing of all STEX uploads in all categories, newest to oldest.

3ds Model Files -- currently, this choice acts the same as All Files.

BAT Files -- A complete listing of all BATS uploaded into the BAT category, newest to oldest.

LOT Files -- A complete listing of all Lots uploaded into the LOT category, newest to oldest.

Map Files -- A complete listing of all Maps uploaded into the Map category, newest to oldest.

Prop FIles -- A complete listing of all Props uploaded into the Prop category, newest to oldest.

Texture FIles -- A complete listing of all Textures uploaded into the Texture category, newest to oldest.

Even though it is not a filter type, the Browse Recent button will display a complete listing of new and recent uploads to the STEX.  It actually operates the same as pressing the ST-Exchange button at the top of the interface.

There are six different Categorized Types offered on the STEX as follows:

New -- Shows new and recent STEX files for the File Type selected.

Popular -- Shows the most dowloaded STEX files for the File Type selected.

Top Rated -- Shows the top rated STEX files for the File Type selected.

New Comments -- Shows files with new comments for the FIle Type selected.

Recent Updates -- Shows files that have recently been updated for the File Type selected.

List View -- Shows a "flat list" of files for the File Type selected.

Expand View -- Show an expanded view (with pictures) of files for the File Type selected.

These last two choices act as a toggle -- either List View or Expand View will be shown.

If one chooses a File Type fiter first, one is presented with the appropriate items based on the filter selected.  Then, by choosing one of the Categorized Filters, one can futher filter the results based on the Categorized Filter choices.

For example:

If I choose a File Type filter of BAT, I will be presented with a list of new and recent BAT files from all categories.  If I then choose a Categorizing Filter type of Top Rated, I will be presented with a list of the top rated BAT files on the STEX.

If I choose a Filter Type of Map, I will be presented with a list of new and recent Map files from all categories.  If I then choose a Categorizing Filter type of Popular, I will be presented with a list of the most downloaded map files on the STEX.

etc, etc.

In order to reset the filter back to the default view of all new and recent files on the STEX in all categories, either click on the Browse Recent Button on the left of the interface or click on the ST-Exchange button at the top of the interface.

 

I realize that I am simply restating the obvious as seen on the STEX.  My purpose here is to establish how the STEX operates today.

Proposal for Viewing STEX Files

Now that everyone has an understanding of how the STEX works, it seems to be quite obvious to me that IF people used the filtering functions of the STEX, this issue should pretty much resolve itself.

If people REALLY DON'T want to see an initial list of files when opening the STEX (i.e. all the new map files, all the new BAT files, etc.) then a User Profile default filter would be a useful addition.  This would allow a person to "pre-configure" the STEX to open in a view they desire as oposed the the default "new and recent" view.

Another option is instead of showing a default "new and recent" view when the STEX is opened, show a list of Filter options/combinations and have the person choose the view they wish to see in this instance of viewing the STEX.

Just a few more thoughts and ideas for Dirk and the Administrative staff to think about.

Regards,

Vandy

[mrbisonm 1,622]

Again let me remind you to steam off your engines a little bit on this thread. I have been tolerate enough with some of your accusations, arrogances and flamings, probably much more than it is tolerated by other Mods in other threads, but I also understand the importance of such as discussion, without taking a side. If it cannot be done in a civilized matter, too bad, I just close this thread once and for all.

So, this is the LAST time I will ask you all to be polite and respectful with your comments please. Thank You.

mrbisonm

[Vandy 110]

Originally posted by: mrbisonm Again let me remind you to steam off your engines a little bit on this thread. I have been tolerate enough with some of your accusations, arrogances and flamings, probably much more than it is tolerated by other Mods in other threads, but I also understand the importance of such as discussion, without taking a side. If it cannot be done in a civilized matter, too bad, I just close this thread once and for all.

So, this is the LAST time I will ask you all to be polite and respectful with your comments please. Thank You.

mrbisonmquote>

 

ATTA BOY, LUTHER!!

[subedei 3]

The way I look at it is that everyone has the right to post their work regardless of how much time they put into it whether Map,BAT,MOD,or lot as long as it is their own. Map Stex would alleviate this topic and should be brought back in my opinion. The STEX is a place for people to share their work with the community not a place where experienced, elite Map makers, BATers, Lot makers, and MODers are only allowed to post. As i rememeber everyone started somewhere and as time progresses those less experienced will get better. Thanks

Subedei

[mrbisonm 1,622]

Like they say (I wonder who though) *There's a limit to everything*....lol....Well I have no other choice to provoke a limit here, otherwise the little part of the savage population of this community will take over and it will end up with an undecribable mess like I have seen in other threads and forums of other sites. (I am not a Mod only on this site and I even have seen a site closing because of uncivilized behavings like this)

Thank you Vandy for standing by my side and trying to put this argument back into a civilized matter and discussion. I hope that Dirk will find (and also announce) a solution to this very soon. (before I run out of patience with some of these members....lol).

Now back to this discussion and show us that YOU respect your fellow member's opinion also.

[Voar Tok 4]

Originally posted by: cogeo Voar Tok, why all this hassle? Looks like you simply don't want or like this proposal and you're just trying to find "arguments" to "prove" that's a bad idea.

Definitely, storing some 20 booleans (even as separate fields, not encoded in a single field) on the user's preferences record isn't a resource hog at all - it doesn't even compare with a signature or these "quote" fields; storing them in some cookie is feasible as well and I don't see why the fact that the cookie system was updated after the switch is an argument against.

The criteria should be:

- Do we really want the proposed feature or not?

- Will it make browsing the STEX better?

My answer is yes in both cases.

The other point of course is if the site's admin and  staff agree too, and are willing to make the required implementation effort. I don't know how much effort this would be though (the site's staff know) but it would be a nice feature.

quote>

Something was lost in translation here.  Anyway, just to make sure that everyone is clear on this, I'll repeat my standing on this again.

So, yeah, I see where you are coming from and whole-heartedly agree with you.quote>

I do personally believe that something needs to be done with this, and I believe that the idea of a filter would easily be workable.

EDIT: That quote is still a little unclear.  Basically, at first I didn't think that a filter would be a good choice, but after realizing where I messed up in my thinking, I agree that a filter would work out pretty good.  A separate MEX is a possibility also, but I don't date back to that time frame in ST's history, so I'm refraining from going to far in that area.  I think that it is workable, and it might be the solution - I just don't know for sure.

[JustinHayward 10]

Well thankyou to the two moderators for "officially" asking what I had already asked for - MUTUAL RESPECT AND APPRECIATION - at least I assume thats what vandy meant with his comment ATTA BOY LUTHER ?????? Wheres Mallow the Cloud when you need him ............................. MALLOW - get in here now and sort this mess out mate !!!

[dev 47]

The fact is that the STEX already lets your filter what you want...is this not "good enough" for some?

[cogeo 960]

@Voar Tok: nice to see that you agree with KH; a customisable/adaptable STEX would work best to everyone!

But as said before, I don't know how much work this could prove to be, the admins should judge if it's worth the effort.

Sorry, I didn't mean to flame anybody, or even "request" things, we just exchange ideas here.

[Pegasus 2,837]

Originally posted by: callagrafx

Whilst I agree that bad mappers are ruining the STEX, it should not be treated as a warzone or a forum to say "my work is better than yours". A bad mapper is to be pitied and if necessary, ignored.

quote>

 

I would think that a bad mapper, like a bad Batter or Lotter... should be encouraged... not ignored and certainly not pitied.

I have always felt that the game and the tools for making custom content are not the exclusive realm of "the elite".  These tools are an extension of the game. Some players have mastered these tools... and some just enjoy tinkering with them. But everyone has to start somewhere and generally, the initial creations are somewhat lacking... espeically when compared to the more polished works of those with more experience.

The STEX is an ideal place for these initial works to be uploaded. It gives them exposure... and allows the community to provide feedback. With constructive "suggestions", encouragement & support, many of those who upload their initial creations, if their skin is thick enough and the members behave, will likely grow into the next generation of serious contributors of custom content for the game. 

[callagrafx 3]

Pegasus, a bad mapper or batter, not to be confused with an inexperienced one, is a person who basically spams the STEX with useless content. If spamming is discouraged, nay punished in the forums, why do you wish to encourage it in the STEX?

[JustinHayward 10]

Pegasus has a good point there - as an experienced and dare I say it GOOD map maker, I always try to help new map makers - read some of my comments on some of the newbies maps. The thing that annoys many of us though - and CERTAINLY the main gripe in this forum is the influx of very poor quality maps from users who IGNORE help and advice and blunder blindly ahead doing whatever THEY want to do - and the pathetic excuse from some of them is "Well there are many who like my maps" or the best one ever "I prefer to go for quality than quantity" yeh right !!!! Well the ratings dont agree with either EXCUSE !!! A lousy map is a lousy map however good the CREATOR (and his small band of friends) THINK it is .................. The masses speak the truth - downloads = good map ............. very few downloads = lousy map

Oh and btw - a high overall rating is a good indicator of the TRUE quality of maps - since Dirk built in ANTI CHEAT parameters ...................... its no good getting all yer buddies to constantly download your "creations" 47 times each unless there are substantial thumbs up and comments to support them .............. EXCELLENT JOB DIRK - got the cheats running for thier lives ........... Ummmm what happened to the "Map Squad" - all left home have they ???

[Pegasus 2,837]

Originally posted by: JustinHayward

This IS a fight between batters and mappers - for heavens sake - I and the other GOOD mappers are NOT going to stand back and have the BATTERS try and tell us they have more rights on this site than WE do !!!!

quote>

 

I think this is being twisted into an argument that shouldn't exist. This is NOT an issue of  BATTERS rights over MAPPERS rights. This is not an issue about rights in any way.

The members of Simtropolis don't have any "rights". This isn't a Democracy. Members here have "permissons" granted by the staff.. and subject to change at any time, singularly or collectively, and without notice.

Currently, all members (in good standing) have permission to upload and download on the STEX. I personally believe that will not ever change.

Justin... this is an issue about what those who DOWNLOAD from the STEX would prefer. It has nothing to do with discrimination towards those who UPLOAD or the types of items that are uploaded. 

NO ONE wants to exclude maps from the STEX. But as a larger majority of STEX DOWNLOADERS either have little or no interest in maps, and apprently feel that the recent influx of maps, good or bad, is detracting from their otherwise enjoyable STEX experience. And this discussion was started simply to discuss possible alternatives and solutions.

There is no need to start a Mapper's Jihad... 

I think it might help if we follow the outcome of this in a logical way. A large portion of the STEX users are unhappy with the way the STEX is now because of all the maps.

If NOTHING is done, many of those users will remain unhappy and eventually just stop using the STEX. And without that continous influx of BATs, Lots and Mods, many of those players will just fade away from the game and the community.

Therefore, if NOTHING is done, then this whole discussion is moot. Very few folk will bother to UPLOAD to the STEX because there just won't be very many players DOWNLOADING from the STEX.

Based on this logic, everyone... Batters & Mappers... Uploaders and Downloaders... must agree that SOMETHING must be done. And the best use of this topic is to dicuss what that SOMETHING should be.

[JustinHayward 10]

I certainly accept what you say pegasus - but nevertheless many of us map makers feel somewhat agrieved at the torrent of abuse and total lack of respect that we have had from SOME on this forum - I would also like to thank those members who have been most thankful and appreciative of our efforts.

Something WILL be done to resolve this issue - lets all now leave it in the capable hands of Dirk - the man whose talents made this all possible in the first place ....

I lay down my arms and respectfully request that this thread now be closed - enough has been said by ALL sides - no need to continue it.

[onlyplace4 605]

Bravo Peg .. .well said

My five cents as a Batter who has never downloaded a map ... if I don't want to look at them I just scroll past them, or I filter them out. At the end of the day only one person will really decide what is best, and that is dirk whom we all owe a great debt of gratitude towards for bringing us SimTrop in teh first place without charging us for the privilege. Maps are a great way to enhance your playing enjoyment in just the same way as custom BATs and Lots are. Whether or not a separate MEX is required ... all I can say is, from this users point of view, the facilities to filter them out already exist, so why make dirk more work?

Whether or not a user downloads a map or not from the STEX doesn't, as far as I am concerned, detract from the STX in any way, shape or form. The one great thing about the STEX is that it demonstrates the entire range of abilities, from those who are learning the ropes to those who probably know more about it that Maxis themselves! I do think that there should be certain etiquette rules on the STEX with regards to comments, but that is maybe something for another thread.

My bottom line ... we have the filters so lets use them and stop bickering!

[Fred_Ginger 1]

Hear, Hear Peg!

I too would like a separate 'MEX' as I don't think the current filters are much help. Some people upload 'BATs' as lots and 'Lots' as BATs so as I don't download maps at all, if I tried to use the filters in their current incarnation I would have to filter once for 'lots' and once for 'BATs'.

[Pegasus 2,837]

Originally posted by: callagrafx Pegasus, a bad mapper or batter, not to be confused with an inexperienced one, is a person who basically spams the STEX with useless content. If spamming is discouraged, nay punished in the forums, why do you wish to encourage it in the STEX?quote>

 

I would agree that an intentional spamming of the STEX with un-usable garbage shouldn't be allowed.

But who is to decide what  is bad or "useless"?

Is "bad" simply something either you or I do not like? Is "useless" simply something either you or I would not use?  

Granted, if something is non-functional, it should be fixed or removed. If someone is intentially uploading a lot of non-functional items, then they should be fixed or removed.

Don't get me wrong. I feel your pain. I really, really do!  But who among us shall cast the first stone?  Or more acurately, who gets to play God-like Art Critic and decide what's good or bad? Well, whoever gets the job better have a lot of spare time for reading PMs and hate mail.  

[Nomad1 53]

Originally posted by: Pegasus 

There is no need to start a Mapper's Jihad... 

quote>

 

simply hilarious...best quote of the thread....

[callagrafx 3]

Originally posted by: Pegasus

There is no need to start a Mapper's Jihad... 

I think it might help if we follow the outcome of this in a logical way. A large portion of the STEX users are unhappy with the way the STEX is now because of all the maps.quote>

.....now this is the sort of comment that really helps no-one. Could the moderator please close the thread before comments like this cause another flare up? We are getting nowhere and will not because the decision is Dirks and Dirks alone...members prolonging this thread with inflammatory comments will just cause more animosity.

Edit: Someone please shoot Andy, it's his fault LOL

[JustinHayward 10]

and so it gos on ................. I asked for this thread to be closed - and what happens - the pegasus crew come in ..................... yeh ok

All hail the king ..........................

And I will lay odds who will be in soon .............................. again !!!

I have asked Skigeek to close this thread - gang wars are not welcome here ..................

[Vandy 110]

Originally posted by: Pegasus

Originally posted by: JustinHayward

This IS a fight between batters and mappers - for heavens sake - I and the other GOOD mappers are NOT going to stand back and have the BATTERS try and tell us they have more rights on this site than WE do !!!!

quote>

 

I think this is being twisted into an argument that shouldn't exist. This is NOT an issue of  BATTERS rights over MAPPERS rights. This is not an issue about rights in any way.

< snip! >

Justin... this is an issue about what those who DOWNLOAD from the STEX would prefer. It has nothing to do with discrimination towards those who UPLOAD or the types of items that are uploaded. 

NO ONE wants to exclude maps from the STEX. But as a larger majority of STEX DOWNLOADERS either have little or no interest in maps, and apprently feel that the recent influx of maps, good or bad, is detracting from their otherwise enjoyable STEX experience. And this discussion was started simply to discuss possible alternatives and solutions.

There is no need to start a Mapper's Jihad...

 < snip! >

Based on this logic, everyone... Batters & Mappers... Uploaders and Downloaders... must agree that SOMETHING must be done. And the best use of this topic is to dicuss what that SOMETHING should be.

quote>

 

I am purposefully quoting this portion of Pegasus' message because, whether or not you agree with it, it is THE CRUX of this thread's issue:

This thread exists to discuss whether or not the STEX would be better off with a separate Maps Exchange.

A side topic which has much merit on its own is how best the STEX could be configured concerning what is displayed -- i.e., filtering.

I would really like some input concerning the post I made earlier detailing how the STEX interface is currently set up for filtering.  The more I use it, the more I like it.  Certainly, there could be some improvment/additions, however; give it a fair chance; use it a fair amount of time and see if you don't think it does a good job.

Finally, please -- PLEASE -- can we refrain from descending into the pit of vehement confrontation that was NEVER part of this orignal thread.

There IS a place for Maps on ST just as there is a place for BATs, Lots, Props, Textures and Mods.  The purpose of this thread IS AND SHOULD REMAIN a discussion -- a rational and thought-out-not-from-the-gut discussion on how best to 1) generally view, filter on and use the STEX and, 2) specifically deal with Maps!

Regards,

Vandy

[JustinHayward 10]

Didnt pegasus and myself already say that ????? plus about 6 others - we are covering old ground here ....

Ring a ring of rosies, a pocket full of posies - atishoo atishoo - we all fall down ......................... used to play that when I was in primary school - good game

I could mention never ending circles, and forced opinions - but that would just be sarcastic .....................

[Nomad1 53]

I too think the existing filter system is adequete and does a fine job. However, someone has stated that they don'y have broadband, and viewing only one type of file at a time takes a long time. I like the idea of reversing what the existing filter does. Instead of clicking what you want to view, you click what you don't want to, and your profile remembers your preference each time you visit ST. I have no idea how much effort it would be to implement, but it still was a good idea...

[AIX 270]

A reversal of the existing filtering system would be a good idea as suggested above. As I have stated before, a seperate MEX would add bloat to an otherwise fine site. It would add one more "stop" to a visitor's surfing experience.

PS: Am I the only person left on this planet that isn't so lazy and has a long-enough attention span to be able to manage surfing through something like the STEX?

[Mary Maurine Mayo 984]

hello

I want to say That I have a great deal of respect for map makers I have tried my hand at making maps only to fail. It seems that creating a MEX is probably going to be out of the question as it seems to have hit a few nerves here today alone. So as many people have said before if you don't want to use them or see them then use the filters which I will start doing. If dirk could make a few more filters to say

view Bats/lots New or something to this effect then we could see whats new in that catagory only... So to conclude this message I say let the maps come in and lets create some more filters plain and simple... As as I have seen on here before this is not a democracy but a dirktatorship... LOL... so please lets all respect each others opinions and each others work. I am sorry if I said anything this morning to make anyone mad. I am sorry. Please let this thread close and let the staff decide what they want to do after all its their site we are just granted to use it.

Lynks

[JustinHayward 10]

No AIX - you are not the only one - there are a few of us - seem to be in a minority though ..... its a right pain though having to wade through thousands and thousands of BATS to find a decent map, thank god theres one or two appearing on the front pages at last.

Edit: By the demand of several members, this thread was closed by an Administrator. Please understand and do not blame me. Thank you.

mrbisonm