Petition To The Bosses - Seperate Map STEX

[andymcnab666 4]

Please comment on this thread if you feel there should be a separate STEX devoted to maps, or even if you think otherwise, or have anything else to add.

Lets be frank about this. Rubbish, poor quality maps are beginning to flood the STEX. There is far greater demand and need for BATs, than there is for maps. People want hundreds of BATs and don’t need hundreds of maps. So when I click on the link for the STEX, I want to see new BATs for my cities, Instead I end up finding a ton of maps that I don’t need. As a result all the BATs are pushed off the front page, where interest dies.

Don’t get me wrong, there are a number of good quality maps, however there are an increasing number of poor quality maps. I understand that everybody needs maps, but only a small handful of them, yet everyone wants lots of BATs. Look at the demand in terms of downloads; a few maps get to three figures, whereas there are hundreds of BATs with thousands of downloads.

If there were a separate map STEX, it would tidy up the original STEX and would enable ST members to find uploads a lot easier without having to sift through tons and tons of maps, and would also work visa versa.

The number of poor maps is ruining the name of maps in general, harming the reputation of those few good maps out there.

I Know I am not alone when I say there needs to be a seperate Map STEX

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Generally, I make my own maps, but occasionally want to get a specific area and look on the STEX.  A segregated area would help with searching.

[JustinHayward 10]

You are not alone on this Andy - I totally agree

I am well aware that we all have to start somewheres, and map making is no different - its a learning curve - but comments in the description box like "I knocked this up in 10 mins" I think are an INSULT to the members.

There are dozens of maps on the STEX produced 100% by Landscape Designer - with little or no input from the "creator" - to put it in cold harsh terms - any silly fool can press a button and churn out a map !!!

I am NOT the best map maker on the STEX - not by a long long way - but myself and many others spend hours creating our maps, and always at least attempt, to service map requests from the members - for which we are thanked and applauded.

It infuriates several of us to see such rubbish being uploaded lately and passed off as "My own original creation" RUBBISH - landscape designer created it !!!!!

[Zugtroll 3]

Hey Andy!

First of all: Man is never alone!

Second: Its a great idea. I support it, but I'm afraid to post new ideas now that they have just made this complete makeover. Seems like something my mother would do..?

Where can I vote for it?

[Zugtroll 3]

(MISTAKE)

[jglei701 8]

I agree that there could be a map exchange and that this would help members to see the BATs which are created.  It DOES take a lot of time to BAT (some projects take weeks or months).  For a project like this to be created, and then sifted to the second page by 15 maps does not give the BATters their proper due.

The reality is this:  A BAT can be used in a multitude of cities within a region.  A map can only provide one region.  The ratio of maps (i.e. "playing surfaces") to BATs (i.e. playing tools) is far too high IMHO for them to reside on the same exchange.

I'm not trying to discourage the map creators out there or to downplay their creations... I've made it known that I can't create a map that can be shared.  But I haven't used any maps on the STEX either... all of mine are hand-terreformed. 

[Nomad1 53]

If you look to the left of the STEX you can see the different file types(BAT's, LOTS, MAPS, etc). If BAT's are all you download, then simply click that icon. I don't think it's necessary for a seperate STEX for maps. As it stands, there is a filter already in place for the file types you don't wish to peruse.

[Keiran Halcyon 0]

I don't think an entirely seperate maps STEX is necessary. Instead, I think there needs to be a better mechanism to filter results on the existing STEX. Ideally, there would be a menu with a checkbox for each category to be displayed, so that any combination could be chosen. It would then be possible to simply have maps be unchecked in the default selection.

Presonally, I ignore most of the BATs I see, unless something catches my eye. Even then, I only download it if it's something I think should have been in the game to begin with (RTMT comes to mind, but that's more of a mod than a BAT). Maps, on the other hand, I enjoy looking at, even if I only download one once in a while.

[sparkythepenguin 90]

That sounds good, and I think it may be worth looking into. But remember, once you're into the STEX's section page (and logged in) you can use the options in the left hand menu to filter selections to whatever category you'd like to see.  That kind-of makes this moot.

Probably a more realistic option would be to have the "STEX Selections" on the homepage split into seperate maps and BAT sections. I don't know how do-able this would be, as there may be other factors that have to be considered.  Dirk would know all that stuff best.

Good luck with this!

[Cataclaw 12]

I agree with Keiran Halcyon.

Additionally, I would have the default list BATs, LOTs, MODs only (no maps, but the option to check it is there)

[Voar Tok 4]

Yeah, I see the purpose in this. A whole new exchange probably isn't necessary, but it would be useful to separate the two of them from each other so that it is easier to find everything.

[spa 970]

I agree with you. There does seem to be an over abundance of maps, many of them bad. Given that most people don't need a whole lot of them, perhaps it should be setup so that they don't randomly rotate into the STEX selections screen on the front page. However, to play devils advocate a bit, what you propose can already be done. Just go the STEX page and under file types click BAT and voila you've got only buildings.

EDIT: Sparky you stole the words right out of my mouth while I was typing!

[Vandy 110]

Hello, AndyMcNabb and All.

I am a relatively new map maker on ST.  (Currently, I have 10 maps on the STEX.)  I have learned that mapmaking is an art form and one that has a fair amount of finese attached to it.  

I must agree with what others have posted concerning the quality of some of the maps posted lately.    They certainly do lack finish and polish.

Actually, the recent glut of maps on the STEX is one of the reasons why I've temporarily stopped making and posting maps -- there are just too many of them on the STEX.

I wholeheartedly endorse and support a MEX separate from the STEX.

Regards,

Vandy

  Map This! - Cartography Services

[andymcnab666 4]

Yes, I do understand that there is a series of buttons to filter out what is displayed, but that leaves you to see BATs, OR, LOTs, OR, Mods, OR Maps. What needs happen is the option to view BATs, LOTs, AND Mods, all together, and maps elsewhere.

[Keiran Halcyon 0]

Hence, my proposal. (Part of why I'm against a seperate section altogether is that when I check the updates, I don't want to check them twice, once for buildings and again for maps. I do want to see everything at once.)

Further, your selection could probably be stored in a cookie so that you wouldn't have to reselect your preferences (if they differ from the default) each time you visit.

[JustinHayward 10]

I feel it would be prudent to state that this thread HOPEFULLY is in no way criticising DIRK or the staff for the fantastic job they have done on the STEX !!

The thread originated as a result of the STEX being flooded with useless maps - a modification to the STEX is perhaps possible - but how do you stop rubbish being uploaded - is every BAT on the STEX a work of art ?

The difference between a map and a Bat is that even a totally useless BAT  devoid of talent or atistry takes hours to make - a map devoid of talent and artistry takes 4 micro seconds to make - you simply click a button on Landscape Designer - as DOZENS of maps on the STEX prove

[jglei701 8]

Took the words out of my mouth Andy.  If there was an option to filter OUT certain types of material, then it would be one thing... but the only filter options we have are filters to get RID of "everything but..."  That means if we want to look and see what the newest BATs, lots, mods, etc... we've gotta spend 3,4,5 times as long as if the maps were on an exchange of their own... or if there was a way to just filter OUT the maps.

Justin,

You wrote "is every BAT on the stex a work of art?"  I would contend that, as I wrote above, each BAT CAN be used in any (every) city, while only one map can be used at one time.  The ratio of maps to other content has gotten to the level that ALL of the other content is soon swept off the front page, which means that it won't be seen by many ST users, who have a limited amount of time and energy to spend on ST.

[JustinHayward 10]

I totally agree with you jglei !!!

The point of this thread it seems is a complaint about the garbage being uploaded - not about a heirarchy of files on the STEX or the ratio of usage within the game :-)

[cogeo 960]

I totally agree with Keiran Halcyon, a user-customisable interface with filtering options stored in cookies or in the site's db is the ideal solution. It can accommodate everyone.

[paperboy15 4]

At first, I thought "is this necessary?" Then I realized your points and I support the idea of a MEX. I agree that maps get in the way of surfing through all the other files. It is rather annoying. As for "junk" files...you can filter by rating or # of downloads right? So as long as members give legit ratings we should be okay on the "quality control" side of things.

[+Guest]

Dirk and his staff have a awesome job with the ST remodel  but who wants to bother with a Filter.

     Unless someone comes foward to Pay the expense for a Map Exchange then there isn't much we can do about.

    Yes it's shame when a excellent Bat gets buried behind 10 Maps but without a seperate exchange this issue is dead.

[Voar Tok 4]

JH: I agree that Dirk and the admins have done a wonderful job with all of this.

Originally posted by: cogeo I totally agree with Keiran Halcyon, a user-customisable interface with filtering options stored in cookies or in the site's db is the ideal solution. It can accommodate everyone.

quote>

The problem with this solution is that the cookie system has been modified since the upgrade (at least that is what I think I've heard).  Storing everyone on the DB though could get to be a resource hog though.

[callagrafx 3]

I'm not a CFM expert but surely a MEX (as it has been christened) would just be another implementation of the STEX? I could be totally wrong (my expertise is Perl). Anyway, it's a great idea as it can be annoying to go thru loads of maps to find either a LOT or a BAT. Nice one Andy for the suggestion..I would be up for contributing some moolah for it, if Dirk and the Dirkettes were willing to implement.

[Keiran Halcyon 0]

Originally posted by: Voar Tok

Storing everyone on the DB though could get to be a resource hog though.quote>

Not really. We'd be talking about an extra byte per member, if whoever coded it (presumably Dirk) was clever about it. Signatures take up much more space.

[sparkythepenguin 90]

One possible solution to the "map flooding problem" could be to make it so that only the top-rated maps stay on the STEX(/MEX?). Or some sort of control where the lowest rated ones drop-off after a certain time (to do this is to "blam" a file, as newgrounds.com calls it). If people don't like it or won't rate it, then Blam it!

Does anyone know specifics about how much file storage space the maps are taking up versus BAT's, etc? Or bandwidth stats on how often maps are downloaded vs. other stuff? There are a lot of reasons why and why not  a solution to this problem is justified based on those numbers. If more people are dowloading tons of big, highly rated BATs, it makes no sense to waste storage or potential bandwidth on a bunch of maps that have been only downloaded 3 times with no ratings. That's just my 2 cents.

[dev 47]

With 3.0, the Map exchange was separate, and sadly, it didn't get much attention.

Some of the maps that are on the STEX are quite worthless though...but I think saying "Your's isn't good enough" is pathetic, and we don't need to have a "system" to figure out which should stay and which should go.

You can filter them out with the STEX can you not?

[jglei701 8]

What's the old saying... someone's garbage is another man's treasure?  I don't want to take away from the time that people are spending on maps.  I can recognize that people ARE spending time on them, so they have value of some sort.  The same goes with the BATs.  Some are of superior quality, but honestly, the creators have spent a LOT of time on them.

I don't think the solution is to "blam" the maps.  That clearly discredits the creators.  But I think that there IS a solution to the number of maps showing up on the STEX... either a filter to filter OUT the undesired content (such as maps, in this case) or a separate MEX.

[pasternakski 0]

The easy solution is to eliminate map posting altogether. I see no need for them, and, as there are so many, the site would save bandwidth that would be better applied elsewhere.

[Voar Tok 4]

Originally posted by: Keiran Halcyon

Originally posted by: Voar Tok

Storing everyone on the DB though could get to be a resource hog though.quote>

Not really. We'd be talking about an extra byte per member, if whoever coded it (presumably Dirk) was clever about it. Signatures take up much more space.quote>

You mean 1 KB don't you.  About the only thing that will fit in a byte is one letter.

It would't be dramatic, but every little bit adds up.  Also, with over 100K members, that would easily be in the realm of megabytes.  The real question though, is how encompassing would this filter/option be?

pasternakski: That isn't an option.  Some people couldn't a map to save their life, and some people make SPECTACULAR maps.

[JustinHayward 10]

Pasternaksi  or whatever yer name is

Well done - you win the gold clock for being the first to say it .................... DUH !!!!