Lot Editor 2.0

[Simizen 1,098]

So the idea behind this, is that we could do a significant upgrade to the Lot Editor, making it easier to use for everyone, but also, to fix some issues that we've got in the game.

One thing that I feel would work, is being able to make custom shaped lots, and not just custom sized ones. I realized that one of the many problems we've had in this game is getting things like properly working angled lots. With the advent of DLL modding, I feel that we could probably convince the game to accept custom shaped lots, and allow for angles that we wouldn't normally have as a result.

In the default LE, we can have the lots align to the road on one side, or have it sit in a corner (either right or left), which would cause them to grow in those key spots during development. If we're able to set up special lots, we could utilize different sizes/shapes as needed. For the corner lots, we have to typically stick with 1x1, 1x2, and 1x3 lots and then have some serious overhanging textures/props, and then manually demolish buildings until the angled lot appears as intended. And then rinse and repeat for each tile of zoned land until the limit has been met. But then you'd also have to check off the "Make Historical" box, so as to avoid them getting replaced by upgraded lots which may be facing orthogonally.

With this version, we could allow people the ability to make the custom shapes, unlike the default version. If you'd like a 2x2 L shaped lot, you could, and a way to solve this would be through a "reserved cell" texture or so, where you still have the lot you're working on, but it would prevent the lot from being a proper 2x2 square. In theory, this could also scale up pretty well, and we could go up to say, 6x6 lots, in a triangle shape.

Something else to consider, is that we could probably fix issues with height and angles for props. Some stuff in the LE requires careful placement, but unless you're incredibly skilled, you wouldn't necessarily catch that it's wrong. But here we could implement a height adjuster or something similar for the various props/effects. Simply put, it can have a "ruler" off to one side, and have buttons to the side to help adjust the height of the objects. Part of this idea came from the SC3K BAT, where most buildings were built with smaller cubes, that you'd layer up into the appropriate size/shape, and then paint as needed.

Theoretically, it could also include ways to establish TE lots in an easier fashion. We could also, theoretically, improve the "transparent texture" issue, by establishing a flag for the base textures so that there won't be any issues with having transparent lots. Though, the other side of this, relies on a potential DLL solution to the water bug problem. Though, even without that getting solved, I'm sure many people would still enjoy being able to make lots with transparent bases.

Two other key things that I think would be quite beneficial, are the ability to make a brand new lot, without the need to load up any in particular. This way, modders can make whatever lots they'd like, and not be stuck with some previous template that may/may not work for them. The second being that we could have an option for which type of building it is. So someone could make a lot, and then they can opt for CO$$, R$, Landmark, Park, etc, without having to load up an external app to add in some of the extra details.

I also think that another issue with the LE could be solved with this, by having it default to the Maxis props/textures, and to let the modders load in the appropriate custom props as they see fit. Currently, the LE loads up all props in your Plugins folder, and the program could hang for quite a while as it does so. Here, this could be easily bypassed, by simply loading up a default state, regardless of everything in the modder's plugins folder.

I believe other features would be useful to have in this version, but the initial goal should be to build a new Lot Editor, with most everything currently in it, but to improve on it to make everything better, and then add in some of these extra features. Unfortunately, while I'm very much interested in programming, I'm nowhere near knowledgeable, nor skilled enough, to be able to put something like this together yet. So, in a way this is a request from the community, but, it's something I feel would benefit the community greatly if implemented as we could reduce the excess tools we're using down to a select few. Another perk to this, is that we can take advantage of modern technology and information, and be able to have it utilize more resources to our advantage, such as multithreading, processing speed, etc, that might not have been available back during SC4's original development. Of course, not everything that we can access can, or should be used in it, simply I was providing examples as I know there's likely going to be some features that we would greatly benefit from that would've been wonderful back during it's original release.

[Propfam 2,288]

I don't think the custom lot idea can be easily implemented. It'd require some rewrites first to the code, which unfortunately with the current state of DLL modding, is a bit hard. The closest thing we can do is to facilitate the creation of overhanging lots using the correct way. We absolutely don't want the immortal lot syndrome to happen again. Also, would be nice if LE 2.0 comes with out-of-boundary positioning, so you can bring your prop/building and the app will automatically make a blank which contains the model of inserted props/building. Same with making animations. BarbyW's (RIP) BAP is outdated. We should make a newer program which much more streamlined and doesn't allow the improper creation of RKT4 props (looking at you, Peg). Agree on transparent lot.

7 hours ago, Ryuu Tenno said:

Two other key things that I think would be quite beneficial, are the ability to make a brand new lot, without the need to load up any in particular. This way, modders can make whatever lots they'd like, and not be stuck with some previous template that may/may not work for them. The second being that we could have an option for which type of building it is. So someone could make a lot, and then they can opt for CO$$, R$, Landmark, Park, etc, without having to load up an external app to add in some of the extra details.

PIM-X already does this. And even, you can make a blank, tho it's a bit awkward to do. And it definitely has modern tech. Not perfect, as the loading can take a bit long time. But at least far better than the buggy mess called the LE.

[Simizen 1,098]

Part of the goal was so that people wouldn't have to load up PIM-X or LEProp for those options. They're wonderful tools for what they are, just, I feel that there's too much jumping around with many of the tools when most people trying to make the lots simply just want to be able to grab a couple textures, props, and a building and then name it, and select the type and be done with it.

And, of course, in theory this app would run considerably faster than the older ones.

Though, hopefully if this gets made, it'll be given a half-way decent window style/theme. Partly for ease of use (finding everything quickly and easily cause they stick out just right), but also just to give it a much cleaner look and feel. Nothing better than a solid working environment that encourages you to work quickly and efficiently.

18 minutes ago, Jidan said:

I don't think the custom lot idea can be easily implemented. It'd require some rewrites first to the code, which unfortunately with the current state of DLL modding, is a bit hard. The closest thing we can do is to facilitate the creation of overhanging lots using the correct way.

I do agree that it likely won't be easy to implement, but that's part of why I would like there to be a remake to the lot editor. Because, while some things will be rather difficult to implement, they're not an immediate necessity, the rest of it can be built fairly quickly and easily. Though, to be honest, I fully expect the custom shape lots to be a viable thing in this app, before we've figured out how to get it to work properly in the game, just because of how involved modifying the game would be for it to work properly.

And really, I feel that there'd be many things we could implement via this app before the DLLs could get to it, since this would be open for everyone to use/edit, versus the game itself currently.

[Propfam 2,288]

I'd summon @Null 45 if this thing is possible or not.

[Null 45 3,041]

2 hours ago, Jidan said:

I'd summon @Null 45 if this thing is possible or not.

I have not investigated the game's lot system beyond what was necessary for the Building Styles DLL.

[SIM-ple Jack 17,444]

Other than the hit or miss search engine, LE is one of the few programs that works just fine on my pc. I've totally abandoned ILives and PIM.