Questions about Plugins folder

[Tubthumper 499]

Plugin folders question(s):

1) Just to make sure I understand correctly, as I am rebuilding my plugins folder.  If there is a file in the root plugin folder, those load 1st (alphabetically). Next the files are loaded in the folders (again, both alphabetically).  So if you have CAM installed, it is in the folder "a_CAM", so pending any other folder that would load prior to that (i.e. "aa_folder") the files in "a_CAM" would load AFTER any files in the root plugin folder?  So if a mod has to be loaded AFTER CAM, it MUST be in a folder that loads alphabetically after "a_CAM"

2) I know you can adjust boot options to use "-UserDir[path]" to have your plugin folder in a separate location from default c:/[user]/documents/SimCity 4/plugins...however issue I run into with that, when loading game up, the Timbuktu region is recreated and different other options (i e. Day/Night cycle) goes back to default. A small annoyance, but an annoyance none-the-less.  I tried to move the plugin folder itself to the d: drive and created a shortcut to the default location, but the game just created another plugin folder, and didn't load any of the plugins.  Would it work to just place that shortcut into the plugin folder itself? (Note, I did ensure to remove the "-shortcut" from the file name...it still just creates a new plugin folder)

[rsc204 21,804]

8 hours ago, Tubthumper said:

So if a mod has to be loaded AFTER CAM, it MUST be in a folder that loads alphabetically after "a_CAM"

Firstly a mod would only need to be loaded after CAM if it altered CAM, which typically would be described as an incompatible mod. Honestly, I don't know of a single case where this is necessary, likewise CAM (the folder a_CAM) doesn't really need to load first either, it would work pretty much regardless of the folder name used.

Ultimately anything starting with b through z for a folder name will load after CAM, why complicate matters further than that?

8 hours ago, Tubthumper said:

2) I know you can adjust boot options to use "-UserDir[path]" to have your plugin folder in a separate location from default c:/[user]/documents/SimCity 4/plugins...however issue I run into with that, when loading game up, the Timbuktu region is recreated and different other options (i e. Day/Night cycle) goes back to default. A small annoyance, but an annoyance none-the-less.  I tried to move the plugin folder itself to the d: drive and created a shortcut to the default location, but the game just created another plugin folder, and didn't load any of the plugins.  Would it work to just place that shortcut into the plugin folder itself? (Note, I did ensure to remove the "-shortcut" from the file name...it still just creates a new plugin folder)

Do you mean to say, you moved the Plugins folder then created a Windows shortcut that linked to it? If so, no that won't ever work, SC4 would have to be coded to follow the shortcut (which I am sure it wasn't), instead it will check the file, realise it contains nothing SC4 related and ignore it. The reason why the game is creating a new Plugins folder each time, is because that's what it does when this folder doesn't exist in the intended location.

Yes, there are various ways to move the location of the SC4 Plugins, but it is also one of those games where if possible, it's just easier to accept the default folder. Have you really so little space on C that you must use another drive?

If C (the Windows drive) is not an SSD, but additional drives like D were, that's a really suboptimal setup that I couldn't recommend. My first SSD drives were only 60/64GB in size, the original ones were frighteningly expensive and barely held Windows and my apps. Yet having an SSD as a system drive transformed the speed of the entire system so much, it justified paying 150€ for such a small drive and having to mess around storing everything else on a separate drive. The point being, anyone not using an SSD as their system drive is missing out on the biggest benefit of having an SSD in the first place.

If you really must have the UserDir for SC4 elsewhere than C, the best solution is to create a symlink in the OS, so the new location will appear to programs as being at the default one, even though it isn't. I think that's what you thought the Windows shortcut would do, but that's simply just a shortcut you can click as a user, to jump to that location.

[Tubthumper 499]

25 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

Firstly a mod would only need to be loaded after CAM if it altered CAM, which typically would be described as an incompatible mod. Honestly, I don't know of a single case where this is necessary

Well, the one Mod I used was Cori's no kickout CAMpatible mod - had the .dat in my root plugin folder, but still had kickouts in my testing. Moved it into a folder called "Cori's Mods" and it works fine.  Reason asking about the load order.  I just used CAM as an example really.

 

30 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

Have you really so little space on C that you must use another drive?

If C (the Windows drive) is not an SSD, but additional drives like D were, that's a really suboptimal setup that I couldn't recommend. 

I have around 8GB free space in my c: drive and around 800GB free - both are SSD drives.  My c: drive is an older SSD drive, so it had a smaller size.

33 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

If you really must have the UserDir for SC4 elsewhere than C, the best solution is to create a symlink in the OS, so the new location will appear to programs as being at the default one, even though it isn't.

Will have to look into that.

[rsc204 21,804]

32 minutes ago, Tubthumper said:

I have around 8GB free space in my c: drive and around 800GB free - both are SSD drives.  My c: drive is an older SSD drive, so it had a smaller size.

Personally speaking, I feel you would be better off with the larger of the two as your system drive. Windows can be used as a dual-drive setup, but it's really not been well designed to do this. A few things in Windows can take an enormous amount of space on the system drive, including Virtual Memory, which by default reserves an amount of space equivalent to how much RAM your system has, in my case that's 32GB. Windows Restore Points can also take up a lot of space, you can periodically remove old restore points, once you are sure you won't need them of course.

Fair point with Cori's mod, I guess the setting also exists in a CAM exemplar. Even so, load order doesn't always require new folders, in this case I'd put it in the folder containing the file it overrides and make sure within that it loads after the CAM files, usually just a case of adding a z to the beginning of that filename. The absolute load order is discussed here, it's more complicated that you might think, although few people need to worry about all the ins and outs.

My advice, keep things simple and try to avoid having too many folders in the root of Plugins. For example one simple folder, zLoadAfterNAM, can contain many mods, all of which need to load after the NAM. Inside that folder, prefix every mod inside with a number, for example:

10 - Mod 1
20 - Mod 2
30 - Mod 3

This setup allows you to alter the load order of these contents easily, it's also obvious with numbers, what the order currently is. Although I would caution against too many nested folders, it slows down loading and really isn't necessary with just a little bit of thought.