Wanted to get into SC4 again but weird performance issues

[MrFissure 11]

Hi there, anyone else experienced issues with performance when not moving the camera around.

On a blank standard map I get around 144 fps (my HZ) but when leaving the camera be the games starts stuttering and tanks down to 14fps until i move/nudge the camera. Then it jumps back up to 144 fps instantly. Tried lower and higher settings on everything. Hardware/software, fullscreen/windowed but nothing seem to make a difference. Also the load in time from overview into the building view is painfully slow.

[Whte_rbt 1,431]

Gonna need more info for a diagnosis. Can we have your hardware specs and OS version info plz?

Additional thought: Is this running on a laptop? Is there some kind of built in power management feature that's kicking in to save battery?

[MrFissure 11]

Sure thing, running this on Win 10 Pro (20H2).

Not a laptop, powerplan is set to save as little power as possible

I7 7700K

32Gb @ 3200Mhz

1080Ti

Game installed on a Samsung Nvme drive.

No weirdness with other titles on the desktop otherwise. Game is running from steam if thats important? 

 

Edit : Just played around some more with it and it seems to start stuttering when the time start advancing. So for some reason the time advancement stops when you move the camera (is this normal perhaps?) then after a few seconds it starts ticking away and the FPS tanks...

[Whte_rbt 1,431]

Okay, hardware seems more than up to the task. One issue that may be occuring is that the game might be running thru the 7700K's integrated intel 630 graphics instead of the 1080Ti. Can you check the config log found in the yourinstalldirectory/apps folder and check the string section to see what card the game is actually registering.

[Whte_rbt 1,431]

Been doing some additional reading and it seems that your are far from alone in having these problems. Have read several threads on 1080Ti's just randomly dropping framerates by 90%ish, there would seem to be a systemic issue with the thing. There are some other possibilities too:

1: Is HDR/Windows Game mode disabled? These are known to cause interference with some games (Killed mine ages ago cause it was tanking Minecraft)

2: Background programs/apps. Have discovered some major memory killers over the years that really shouldn't be. Things like Teams or Skype can hog resources, but the worst one I ever found was the update app for my GF's satnav system. It slowed her system to the point of freezing. No updater should ever need to use 40%+ of the processor all the time.

[Raymond7cn 6,772]

Along with @Whte_rbt's wonderful deduction, it rings a bell that i seemed to have similar issue after updating the driver of my Nvidia 1060, I have talked with CB that some apps (SC4 and even 3ds max)became weird (fast and slow), I tried to adjust some new parameters in Nvidia Control Panel, but no luck, then I have to uninstall the driver and returned it to an old version, then resolved it. I still don't know the real reason of it, Anyway, I just searched a bit and hope this would be helpful: 

Sincerely,

-- Raymond

[MrFissure 11]

Hi again, thanks for the tips.

No integrated enabled but here are the top of the log anyways.

Spoiler

 

Flags
-----
hardwareDriver = true
DXT = true
fullscreen = true
MMX = true
FPU = true
backingStore = true
forcedFSAA = false

Strings
-------
userName = john
appName = SimCity 4
version = 1.1.641.0
osVersion = Windows 4.10
computerName = DESKTOP-SIH4QA6
CPU = GenuineIntel
sglDriverName = DirectX
sglDriverVersion = 2.0
driverName = nvldumd.dll
driverVersion = 0.0.0.0, GUID: D7B71E3E-5846-11CF-F373-E2A50EC2CD35
cardName = NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti
cardVersion = Vendor: 10de, Device: 1b06, Board: 85e21043, Chipset: 00a1
cardIdentity = NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti
soundDriverName = {0.0.0.00000000}.{4bce8137-c1df-4236-9cdd-7a50267ea11c}
soundCardName = Speakers (Sound Blaster ZxR)
buildType = Release

 

By default I try to keep background tasks and apps to a minimum. But will try to disable as much as I can. Gonna try disable game mode as well to see if it makes a difference. Will post back the result in a while.

Thanks again !

[rsc204 21,808]

If you scroll a little further through the log file, do you have "Fast Card" being applied under Rules? If you do, configuration wise everything is working as it should.

Raymond's experience is probably enlightening, sounds like the most up to date drivers have compatibility issues. Will that be fixed in a driver update in future or whether it's a consequence of changes to better support more modern titles, it's hard to say. But when running legacy applications like SimCity 4, there is always the chance of compatibility issues. From what can be gleaned from the support requests around here, I'd say NVidia's drivers seem to be moving forwards and dropping some compatibility support along the way. But I would certainly try an older driver version at this point since SC4 can only work with a driver supporting its needs.

1 hour ago, Whte_rbt said:

One issue that may be occuring is that the game might be running thru the 7700K's integrated intel 630 graphics instead of the 1080Ti.

Unlike laptops, desktop systems can't re-route the video signal to a display that's not physically connected to the GPU. Therefore whichever graphics card is used is determined solely by whichever video output your monitor is plugged into, i.e. if the monitor is plugged into the MB, it must use the Intel GPU.

The other option many desktop users have is to disable the on-board GPU in the MB BIOS settings, some OEMs don't allow for this, but if you built your PC it should be something you can change (disable iGPU MultiMonitor). If you aren't using the Intel GPU, then disabling it probably saves a tiny amount of power or something, but it's by no means mandatory and wouldn't help with your problems.

[MrFissure 11]

Okey so I have tried everything mentioned now with the exception of rolling back drivers.

Integrated graphics is disabled via bios and has been I setup the system with its OC etc. (Binned 7700K running at 5,1ghz so single core performance should be no issue)

Disabled game mode and all background apps and still no difference. 

Fast card is being applied it says

Spoiler

 

Log generated on 5/25/2021, 17:52

Flags
-----
hardwareDriver = true
DXT = true
fullscreen = false
MMX = true
FPU = true
backingStore = true
forcedFSAA = false

Strings
-------
userName = john
appName = SimCity 4
version = 1.1.641.0
osVersion = Windows NT 6.2
computerName = DESKTOP-SIH4QA6
CPU = GenuineIntel
sglDriverName = DirectX
sglDriverVersion = 2.0
driverName = nvldumd.dll
driverVersion = 0.0.0.0, GUID: D7B71E3E-5846-11CF-F373-E2A50EC2CD35
cardName = NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti
cardVersion = Vendor: 10de, Device: 1b06, Board: 85e21043, Chipset: 00a1
cardIdentity = NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti
soundDriverName = {0.0.0.00000000}.{4bce8137-c1df-4236-9cdd-7a50267ea11c}
soundCardName = Speakers (Sound Blaster ZxR)
buildType = Release

Numbers
-------
cpuSpeed = 4199
memory = 2048
freeMemory = 2048
screenWidth = 2560
screenHeight = 1440
screenBPP = 32
videoMemory = 3072
textureMemory = 3072
textureStages = 8
bogoFPS = 0
bogoMPPS = 0

Rules
-----
applying Sound
applying high sound detail
applying City Detail and Day/Night Settings
applying low computer power>
applying high computer power
  option 9 = 3
  option 13 = 1
  option 15 = 3
applying Texture Quality and Building Variety Settings
applying low memory>
applying high memory
  option 3 = 3
  option 14 = 3
applying Variable Speed Automata
applying default
  option 10 = 1
applying Standard hardware
  option 0 = 1
  option 1 = 1
  option 2 = 1
  option 4 = 0
  option 5 = 1
  option 8 = 1
  option 7 = 1
  option 6 = 1
  option 11 = 0
  option 12 = 0
applying Standard hardware>
  option 1 = 2
applying Standard hardware>>
  option 0 = 2
applying Standard hardware>>>
  option 2 = 2
applying Standard hardware>>>>
  option 4 = 1
applying Standard hardware>>>>>
  option 11 = 1
applying Two stages
applying Lotsa vidmem
applying Not Slow GeForce
applying Fast card
applying Fast card>
  option 12 = 1
applying Fast card>>
  option 1 = 3
applying Fast card>>>
  option 0 = 3
applying Fast card>>>>
  option 2 = 3
applying Fast card>>>>>
  option 4 = 1

Options
-------
Visual Effects       current:   3 recommended:   3
Cars/Sims            current:   3 recommended:   3
Shadows              current:   3 recommended:   3
Atmospheric effects  current:   1 recommended:   1
Water effects        current:   1 recommended:   1
Software/Hardware    current:   1 recommended:   1
Cursor               current:   1 recommended:   1
VariableSpeedAutomata current:   1 recommended:   1
Translucent UI       current:   1 recommended:   1
Graphic Detail       current:   3 recommended:   3
Building Load Speed  current:   3 recommended:   3
Texture Quality      current:   3 recommended:   3

Properties
-------
forcesoftwaredriver = false
renderdynamicview = true
renderstaticview = true
renderwatereffects = true
rendercloudsandfog = true
forcepointsampling = false
forcebilinear = false
forcenoalphablend = false
forcenoalphatest = false
rendershadows = true
renderdecals = true
usesecondstage = true
forcedebugtexture = false
renderparticleeffects = true
renderflorashadows = true
renderterrain = true
showupdateregions = false
usecursoreffects = true
drawlottextures = true
drawlotfoundations = true
drawlotwalls = true
forcetexturerepeat = false
usescreenshake = true
renderui = true
useupdaterectclipping = true
usevertexbuffers = true
showboundingboxes = false
useoverlayculling = true
rendersnapshot = false
noaddsigned = false
nopartialbackingstorecopies = false
usescreenflash = true
renderautomata = true
preferopaque = false
displayalertborders = true
drawlotopaquetextures = true
useviewcleanup = false
doautozoomandrotationchanges = true

viewoffsety = 0
viewoffsetx = 0
texturebits = 32
lodoffset = 0
shadowdebug = 0
maxparticlestarget = 10000
particlelodoffset = 0
effectprioritylevel = 5
backingstoremaxzoomall = 5
backingstoremaxzoombuildingsprops = 5
backingstoremaxzoomterrain = 5
backingstoremaxzoomflora = 5
shadowquality = 2
minvehiclezoom = 3
minpedzoom = 4
cursortype = 1
depthoffset = 2
debugtexture = 0
dirtyrectmergeframes = 2
sounddetail = 2
buildingvariety = 2
buildingloaderspeed = 1
modellodoffset = 0
stringtexturecachesize = 1024

particleeffectslod = 5
splattexturescale = 50
texbindmaxfree = 8
particledensity = 1
particledamping = 0
particlescale = 1
lightingupdatedelta = 0.0001
shadowmodelthreshold = 12
demolishmodelthreshold = 12
rendermodelthreshold = 6
rendermodelthresholdscroll = 40
particlesizethreshold = 300
maxvehiclepct = 1
maxpedpct = 1
opaqueuialphavalue = 0.55

 

 

[MrFissure 11]

1 hour ago, Raymond7cn said:

Along with @Whte_rbt's wonderful deduction, it rings a bell that i seemed to have similar issue after updating the driver of my Nvidia 1060, I have talked with CB that some apps (SC4 and even 3ds max)became weird (fast and slow), I tried to adjust some new parameters in Nvidia Control Panel, but no luck, then I have to uninstall the driver and returned it to an old version, then resolved it. I still don't know the real reason of it, Anyway, I just searched a bit and hope this would be helpful: 

Sincerely,

-- Raymond

Do you remember how far back you had to roll back to solve the issue?

 

Edit : Also to make sure I am not wasting anyones time here, do you guys and gals have higher than 30 FPS when the automata is running in cheetah speed?

Tried some dgVoodoo2 thingy as a wrapper and its 30 instead of 14 FPS now atleast...

It seems that now I have 

Normal speed - 60 FPS

High Speed - 40 FPS

Cheetah Speed - 30 FPS

When moving camera etc - 700 - 2500 FPS ...

[Whte_rbt 1,431]

30 minutes ago, MrFissure said:

memory = 2048
freeMemory = 2048

Additional thing: You also seem to be missing the 4Gb patch, have you installed the NAM?

[MrFissure 11]

7 minutes ago, Whte_rbt said:

Additional thing: You also seem to be missing the 4Gb patch, have you installed the NAM?

No, I reset the game to base to troubleshoot. Anyways have found a "solution" from an old thread.

fps_max 100  in consoles works for all the speeds but unfortunately it resets each time you change the game speed. Having to type that all the time is to tedious. But seems the FPS is locked in the different speeds by design?

[Whte_rbt 1,431]

On 25/05/2021 at 5:08 PM, MrFissure said:

Normal speed - 60 FPS

High Speed - 40 FPS

Cheetah Speed - 30 FPS

When moving camera etc - 700 - 2500 FPS ...

The more i'm thinking about this, these numbers actually do make sense. The frame rate drops as the speed of the simulation is increased, this is to be expected when the background calculations have to be completed faster. The huge spike up to the 700-2500 range also makes sense as the simulation pauses/freezes as soon as the button is held to enable drag mode, meaning that this is the frame rate your system is capable of displaying the game at. The main problem underlying all of this is the limitation of Sc4 being a single core program, as the tasks cannot be split between cores due to a programming 'error'. If we can ever get access to source code we know what needs altered to make it multicore compatible, check out @OrSpeeder's comments in this thread (near the bottom of the page):