Highways and other transitions

[countermoon 46]

A couple problems. Often I have trouble connecting a road or street (of any kind) to an avenue. Or avenue to avenue. Or whatever to whatever. Can't connect, is the message I get. Sometimes I can bulldoze the avenue, or flatten it, and try again, and it works. Sometimes not. Which streets go with which puzzle pieces? Now I know why they are called puzzle pieces. I think I will give up on flattening terrain, because all it does is push the dirt somewhere else for me to discover later.

These puzzle pieces have many cryptic names and descriptions. The manual doesn't cover them. Oh, for a thorough manual. I'm baffled by how to transition from cities to highways and which highway to use.  The puzzle pieces called "ramps" have mostly "deprecated" pieces. Other abbreviations and uses are baffling. What do all these terms mean?

I'm working on New York. Again. Trying to put industry on one island, commercial and residence in another, with a bridge between. First I tried a rail bridge but they refused to take the train. Then I tried a road bridge but it get too congested. I tried an avenue bridge, but that may have been too expensive, and there were problems getting on and off. I tried a Real Highway bridge (RHW), but similar problems: congestion and transition between roads, highways, and bridges. I'm out of ideas until I learn this game better.

 

[rsc204 21,806]

On 10/01/2021 at 6:20 PM, countermoon said:

A couple problems. Often I have trouble connecting a road or street (of any kind) to an avenue. Or avenue to avenue. Or whatever to whatever. Can't connect, is the message I get. Sometimes I can bulldoze the avenue, or flatten it, and try again, and it works. Sometimes not. Which streets go with which puzzle pieces? Now I know why they are called puzzle pieces. I think I will give up on flattening terrain, because all it does is push the dirt somewhere else for me to discover later.

What Puzzle Pieces are you talking about here?, a Puzzle Piece is a very specific term that denotes a piece that can be placed from in-game menus. Although the Maxis Highway Interchanges are one of the few examples of them in the base game, they are synonymous with the NAM, because in the early days that was the only mechanism we had to make most new features.

In these cases, you only need draggable network functionality, the transitions work themselves out, like any other junction. If you are having severe trouble making such junctions, it suggests you've installed a restrictive slope mod of some kind. By default the game will pretty much allow all sort of ridiculous slopes and bumps, it's very forgiving precisely because most players would get frustrated otherwise with these kinds of problems. For certain pieces in the game to connect, the land where networks meet needs to be absolutely flat. If the game, using the settings of either the default or a custom slope mod, can not make that happen by auto-terraforming around the intersection, that's when you get the error. Either remove the slope mod or you are going to have to do some extra work to build things, to the new specifications of such a mod. Another option is a less restrictive slope mod instead.

Interesting point, they are called Puzzle Pieces, because they fit together like a puzzle does. Most such legacy pieces are no more complex than spending some time going through the options, placing them all and figuring out how they 'fit' together. Seriously, I can't recommend enough just messing around with things in a blank city to get experience. Or you could let someone with experience guide you through the basics, there's a link in my signature to my NAM tutorials on YouTube.

On 10/01/2021 at 6:20 PM, countermoon said:

These puzzle pieces have many cryptic names and descriptions. The manual doesn't cover them. Oh, for a thorough manual. I'm baffled by how to transition from cities to highways and which highway to use.  The puzzle pieces called "ramps" have mostly "deprecated" pieces. Other abbreviations and uses are baffling. What do all these terms mean?

Ultimately manuals do exist, but looking at my NAM 39 .zip file, I don't see the legacy ones included so I guess it got removed, I've no idea why. Seems it was still there in NAM 37/38, anyway I've uploaded a copy here if anyone wants it.

The mere fact that you are talking about Puzzle Pieces though, suggests you've missed that we've long since moved on from them. Most of the content consists of FlexPieces, the key differentiation between these and Puzzle Pieces is their Flexibility. For example, place a FlexHeight (Flexible Height) Transition for RHW, it will then override to whichever RHW network is dragged into it. Likewise a FlexRamp, is an on/off ramp, which depending on the particular one, can be placed onto many different RHW networks. Thereafter, you can drag MIS or RHW-4 from the RAMP to connect it up with regular game networks, other RHW networks or in some setups NWM networks too. Those "depreciated" pieces are the Puzzle Pieces, which the Flex pieces have replaced, hence depreciated. You'd only need them for some very specific setups, where the newer method has yet to replace them.

If you don't yet understand the role of MiS (Modular Interchange System), it's imperative you do. In most parts of the world, high-speed motorways do not interact or transition into roads, except by way of interchanges. Where they do, you don't have 5 lanes of traffic in each direction suddenly ending at a road with only 1. Again, you can transition between supported networks, so RHW-4 which is 4 lanes (2 in each direction) and takes up 2 tiles in-game, will transition smoothly into an Avenue which has those same properties. 6S transitions into NWM RD-6 or 6C into NWM AVE-6/TLA-7. 8S/10S/8C networks generally won't transition in this way, you need to reduce the lane count by transitioning to another RHW network first. But when you think about it, there is a logic running through what will and won't work. Failing that, read the manual (RHW User Manual.pdf) or use trial and error to work out what's possible.

But you do need to understand RHW is an advanced user mod, it is very complicated, but if you persevere with it, it's a very flexible set of tools. That said, it is certainly not for everyone. Learning how to best to use it won't ever come from someone typing a few lines or giving a few basic tips. Like anything else in life you want to master, you must seek out the information to learn and practise, perhaps a lot. Many people just bemoan that it's too hard or somehow badly put together from a user-friendliness perspective. If that is how you are feeling, take some good advice, stick with the Maxis Highways, maybe RHW isn't for you?

Otherwise, once more I'd recommend messing around with it in a blank tile to see what you can do. Don't expect to be a master within an hour or two, it's going to take time to get familiar and even longer to excel at using it. Once more I show how to make basic junctions in my YouTube series. But beyond that, the number of options and general lack of specificity in your question, precludes me from giving you a more targeted answer.

[countermoon 46]

Thanks for the help. I certainly need it. The only mod I use is NAM. I got the term "puzzle pieces" from Rob's video tutorials, though I think the term also appears in the Maxim pdf manual (SimCity 4 Deluxe edition). I apply the term to everything, but maybe I shouldn't. I found a pdf manual called "Mass Transit Authority Users Manual for NAM 31.2". Not all of it is relevant, and I wonder how much has changed from NAM 31 to the present.

I'll try to make it plain. When I want to build something, there is a control panel on the left showing a vertical column which contains pieces which can be laid down (road, street). The vertical column scrolls up and down. Many of these pieces baffle me. I can tell neither by the picture nor the description what they are or how to use them. As I've learned more, I've wanted to learn more of the pieces. I agree that exploring has its place, and I've planted some to see what they look like. But that wastes time and simoleons and I have to restart. If I had some kind of chart, that would make a big difference. At my age, memorizing isn't something I look forward to.

Yes, there are Flex pieces too, which I don't know, and MiS, which I don't know. More terminology that is a mystery. More computer acronyms written as though they were self-evident. There's Real Highway (RHW) which looks a lot like a road and there's Maxis Highway which looks more like a highway. The latter will connect to an avenue but not a road. But you can't connect it to a bridge with a single lane. I also learned (the hard way) that you can't place buildings next to a Real Highway piece. That may seem obvious, but I've been through places in the real world where the highway really does run straight through the city next to establishments.

So that gets me back to the subject of transitions. I thought there must be a way to get on and off the bridge, transition to a highway, then to a road, but I couldn't figure it out without creating excessive congestion. Traffic bunches up before and after the bridge, similar to the problem of  a popular bus stop near a rail station. Traffic bunches up in one spot. I tried roundabouts, but they take up a lot of room and they don't always solve "red congestion". They are also finicky to place, as are most of the pieces. Sometimes Rob's one-way improvised "circle" (oval?)  works for me.

 

[rsc204 21,806]

The general point here is that the principals of how things are built is important to better understand how to use everything. I’ll confess I have not watched Rob’s tutorials myself, but I know why I covered those things I did in my own videos. The premise being, it introduces the concepts of using the various types of networks and pieces the NAM contains. Everything is done in a deliberately slow and steady (boring) way, so you can really understand things. Honestly, watching them will explain more than anyone could possibly put in a forum post.

Let’s take for example the RHW pdf, sure there is a lot of out of date stuff in there. But it also includes tons of useful and relevant information. For example, need to understand MIS and the various RHW networks? It’s all explained and overall it covers how things go together. But documenting every last thing takes a lot of time, the sad fact is we don’t have time to always do that and also make content. So, because it’s the quickest way, often we create a brief video for a new feature, walking through how to use it. I’ve said it before, the biggest real problem is not that everything isn’t covered somewhere, more that the information has become fragmented and not all in one place.

As for the argument trying things out costs money and time, you don’t have to worry about the first. Use a blank new region, created for the purpose. Spend the money, cheat to make more, take out loans, ditch it when you are done and start over. As for taking time, we’ll yes it will, you have to decide if it’s worth the investment. Another tip I’d give, you can’t jump into the NAM and just be up and going quickly. Think of this as around 15 years of transit mods, all rolled into a single installer.  If you’ve been using the NAM a while, each new release brings a handful of features. But if you are new, it’s overwhelming. Don’t rush things, get familiar with the basics, before you get deeper into the more difficult features. If you liken this to getting 500 Lego sets for Christmas, building them simultaneously would not make things easier.

[countermoon 46]

Which of your videos is relevant to what I'm doing?

[rsc204 21,806]

If the goal is to learn how to use the NAM, all of them, of course they cover different features. If you watch them in order the first 4 or 5 just lay out how to work with Puzzle/Flex pieces with some helpful tips and examples. That's an hour of your life well spent if you ask me, but having spent probably 50h+ making them, I may be biased. Of course, given the size of the NAM, it is not absolutely comprehensive, but I'm just recommending you start somewhere gathering information. Whether that be a video, MY videos or elsewhere, being guided through it will ultimately save you time figuring it all out yourself.

[countermoon 46]

 

[countermoon 46]

What happened to the audio?

[rsc204 21,806]

An amateur with non ideal equipment's first try, but it definitely is audible, if not ideal. It improves in subsequent parts, but I no longer have the source files to simply remake the audio, so it's what it is unfortunately.

[countermoon 46]

What do you think about doing it again?

[rsc204 21,806]

My initial thought is, I think it’s about 5 hours of my life I won’t get back. Even so, I may do it in future, but there’s way too much stuff I’m juggling right now.