Exemplar Names - Find & Replace?

[BartonThinks 3,416]

So, I crashed Reader 1.54 a few times when I tried to test the script, but after running it in Windows 8 compatibility mode...

Looks like it works! 

For the record, this DAT has around 120 props in it. But as with most of the packs I've created for this project, I left out a ton of props simply because I didn't want to spend an hour or two manually renaming all of the exemplars. So this not only saves me a tremendous amount of work, it also gives me a lot more flexibility when creating these packs.

@Raymond7cn & @CorinaMarie, please let me know if there's anything I can do to repay you for the favor. 

[Raymond7cn 6,776]

Hiya @BartonThinks,

I'm happy for you. it's my pleasure, i'm always finding a way to repay Cori as well.  Honestly, I almost learnt everything from simtropolis even English, i don't intend to be too humble here, however i have already learned and benefited from your posts somewhere, Robin @rsc204 has said to me before:

because we too learnt from others. This cycle of giving back has helped to keep the SC4 community alive all this time.

There are some magic stuffs in this community, That is something that God freely gives to those who love and trust him, so i'm satisfied with being one of you.

If you don't mind it, Just beep me when you plan to publish your great project, Don't want to miss wonderful part of the STEAM city.

Sincerely,

-- Raymond

[CorinaMarie 29,894]

8 hours ago, BartonThinks said:

Please let me know if there's anything I can do to repay you for the favor.

Indeed you can do something. Simply continue helping other peeps when you know the answer to their questions.

@Raymond7cn taught me things about Reader that I had never previously utilized. If weren't for his persistence figuring out the parts he did, I'd've not looked into this cause I already had my mind made up that it would be too buggy to use. Thank you very much, Raymond.

[BartonThinks 3,416]

I just wanted to quickly say thank you again to @Raymond7cn and @CorinaMarie for their help with this. The script has already saved me a ton of time, and I've been able to use it for other purposes. Hard to express my relief at cycling through a big batch of prop files in minutes that might have otherwise taken hours to complete.

I'll need to poke around and familiarize myself with LUA. I feel like there are a few different ways it could make my life easier in Reader, and it would be great to learn how it gets applied to the actual game.

[CorinaMarie 29,894]

I'm happy to hear it's working well for you. If you are curious, I've been creating a more vebose output report for Cohorts and Exemplars starting here in Raymond's thread. In later posts in his thread, there are improved versions. And I'm now tidying up the code and adding comments which explain what everything does.

This has turned out to be quite useful because I can do file compares of the text itself.

[BartonThinks 3,416]

35 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

I'm happy to hear it's working well for you. If you are curious, I've been creating a more vebose output report for Cohorts and Exemplars starting here in Raymond's thread. In later posts in his thread, there are improved versions. And I'm now tidying up the code and adding comments which explain what everything does.

This has turned out to be quite useful because I can do file compares of the text itself.

I saw that browsing Raymond's thread earlier and have it bookmarked for future use. I'd also be interested in seeing if I can find a way to batch produce other exemplar sets by creating exemplar templates that can be populated via script.

At a certain point, the amount of work that would go into scripting would outweigh the time and effort it saves, especially for any scripts that only apply to my weird side projects. That said, I feel like these kinds of scripts could open up some really interesting possibilities, such as:

• Batch producing offset prop sets based on existing prop sets
• Batch converting sets of T21 lots produced in PIM-X into proper T21s
• Batch adjustments for simple gameplay mods (e.g., here are three mods that reduce garbage by 25%, 50%, or 75% respectively for all Maxis RCI lots -- take your pick)
• Batch adjustments for testing gameplay mods and custom content (e.g., create a flora brush and batch generate 25 copies with different size/strength combinations, then test side-by-side in game to find the perfect fit)

[CorinaMarie 29,894]

20 minutes ago, BartonThinks said:

Batch producing offset prop sets based on existing prop sets

If I can be taught how this is done by hand, I see no reason why it couldn't be coded in Lua. As I'm doing right now, I've added a block at the top with notes about which parts are user changeable to be used by the non-changing code part. In this case it'd be the x, y, and z amount of the move from their present location that would be set in variables and then the code would do the rest.

 

20 minutes ago, BartonThinks said:

Batch converting sets of T21 lots produced in PIM-X into proper T21s

Same as above. If I knew what needs to be done by hand, it could prolly then be coded.

 

20 minutes ago, BartonThinks said:

Batch adjustments for simple gameplay mods (e.g., here are three mods that reduce garbage by 25%, 50%, or 75% respectively for all Maxis RCI lots -- take your pick)

Here I believe we'd need them all in a single .dat file as a base template then the adjustments could be coded to alter them automatically. That file would be saved and the next copy of the template opened. From there you'd change the variables at the top and run the Lua to get the next version. Rinse and repeat.

 

20 minutes ago, BartonThinks said:

Batch adjustments for testing gameplay mods and custom content (e.g., create a flora brush and batch generate 25 copies with different size/strength combinations, then test side-by-side in game to find the perfect fit)

Same as the previous. One base template copied to 25 separate files and then each is opened, the variables at the top altered, run the script, and save.

[rsc204 21,866]

22 hours ago, BartonThinks said:

I saw that browsing Raymond's thread earlier and have it bookmarked for future use. I'd also be interested in seeing if I can find a way to batch produce other exemplar sets by creating exemplar templates that can be populated via script.

Yes, I've long thought such things would be of much use. A few years ago I'd have been chomping at the bit with the findings here. I don't think LUA code would be beyond my skill set if I had enough reason to apply myself. Right now, I've barely time to fully digest all the details, but I too have cached the information away for later reading.

How far can this go?, that is a question that will be interesting to find out. But even with what we have now, some previously awful "admin" of files will never more need to be repeated.

22 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

Same as above. If I knew what needs to be done by hand, it could prolly then be coded. (T21s from LotConfig Exemplars)

Real easy, you'd want a basic T21 template (one I have prepared earlier is attached). You simply need to copy all the LotConfigLotObject entries for Props only, i.e. no Building, Textures or other types and populate them for each LotConfig into one new T21. If you can crack that, you'll save many headaches that frustrates me most making T21s. A system where different T21 templates to suit their specific needs could be selected between, would be useful. I.e. not having to have a fixed Template.

T21 Template.dat

22 hours ago, BartonThinks said:

• Batch producing offset prop sets based on existing prop sets
• Batch adjustments for simple gameplay mods (e.g., here are three mods that reduce garbage by 25%, 50%, or 75% respectively for all Maxis RCI lots -- take your pick)
• Batch adjustments for testing gameplay mods and custom content (e.g., create a flora brush and batch generate 25 copies with different size/strength combinations, then test side-by-side in game to find the perfect fit)

Offset Props are pretty easily done in Model Tweaker, I've a pretty fast method. Otherwise use RTK4 props, which allow you to specify offsets as Hex values for models. Of course avoid Overridding any existing RTK1 props, or you may trigger Prop Pox.

Batch adjustments for Gameplay mods is really another way of saying a mod. You really don't want to batch update anything in SimCity_1.dat, so once you've tweaked what you want, no less difficult or time-consuming in a script, why would you need a script anyway?

Your last suggestion seems to me a bit of a technical nightmare to make happen in code. Unless there is a magic way to test multiple similar mods without exiting the game for each change, I don't believe LUA can make this possible. Especially since it's really only there (in Reader), to facilitate automation of mod creation. So whilst it might be able to make your 25 variations for testing, once you close Reader, it's not going to be doing anything useful.

[BartonThinks 3,416]

44 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

Yes, I've long thought such things would be of much use. A few years ago I'd have been chomping at the bit with the findings here. I don't think LUA code would be beyond my skill set if I had enough reason to apply myself. Right now, I've barely time to fully digest all the details, but I too have cached the information away for later reading.

How far can this go?, that is a question that will be interesting to find out. But even with what we have now, some previously awful "admin" of files will never more need to be repeated.

Real easy, you'd want a basic T21 template (one I have prepared earlier is attached). You simply need to copy all the LotConfigLotObject entries for Props only, i.e. no Building, Textures or other types and populate them for each LotConfig into one new T21. If you can crack that, you'll save many headaches that frustrates me most making T21s. A system where different T21 templates to suit their specific needs could be selected between, would be useful. I.e. not having to have a fixed Template.

T21 Template.dat

Offset Props are pretty easily done in Model Tweaker, I've a pretty fast method. Otherwise use RTK4 props, which allow you to specify offsets as Hex values for models. Of course avoid Overridding any existing RTK1 props, or you may trigger Prop Pox.

Batch adjustments for Gameplay mods is really another way of saying a mod. You really don't want to batch update anything in SimCity_1.dat, so once you've tweaked what you want, no less difficult or time-consuming in a script, why would you need a script anyway?

Your last suggestion seems to me a bit of a technical nightmare to make happen in code. Unless there is a magic way to test multiple similar mods without exiting the game for each change, I don't believe LUA can make this possible. Especially since it's really only there (in Reader), to facilitate automation of mod creation. So whilst it might be able to make your 25 variations for testing, once you close Reader, it's not going to be doing anything useful.

Just following up on the last two points (and bear in mind, I was mostly just coming up with examples off the top of my head)...

- In the first example (reduced pollution), you would need to open every RCI lot individually and adjust the values. The scripted version would allow you to copy/paste Maxis RCI exemplars into a new DAT and then run a script that recalculates all of the pollution exemplar properties according to a specific formula.

- In the second example, there would be more limited uses, but I believe there would be at least a few cases where it would prove useful. The flora brush example, for instance, would allow you to quickly create 25 variants of a that could each be assigned unique IDs and names, which would allow them to be tested side-by-side in-game. In other cases, mods that require extensive/repetitive modding of exemplar properties could be automated, which would make it possible to create several variants of the mod. The mods could then be tested under similar conditions to see how the game responds. For example, let's say you want to batch alter the park effect values and radii of all Maxis lots. You could automate a script that recalculates the values, then tweak the calculation and re-run the script a few to create four variants. You could then create a template city to test all five versions under similar conditions to see how the changes effect RCI development.

Mind you, I could be way off-base with some of these examples. At this point, I've only really modded props and RCI lots, so it's not like I have an in-depth knowledge of how other properties work. I'm just interested in what might be possible.

[CorinaMarie 29,894]

2 hours ago, rsc204 said:

Real easy, you'd want a basic T21 template (one I have prepared earlier is attached). You simply need to copy all the LotConfigLotObject entries for Props only, i.e. no Building, Textures or other types and populate them for each LotConfig into one new T21. If you can crack that, you'll save many headaches that frustrates me most making T21s. A system where different T21 templates to suit their specific needs could be selected between, would be useful. I.e. not having to have a fixed Template.

I've peeked in your attached template file.

Here's what I see:

So, is this the base I'd copy the props into from some other T21 exemplar? I confess to still being confuzzled.

One thing the Lua code cannot do in Reader is to create a new exemplar. (The option simply isn't available in the C++ coded callable Lua functions.) However, adding, changing, and deleting property entries can be done. So, it seems we'd need to start with the first exemplar having all the props which are to be copied and then have however many additional exemplars that are to receive the props. Once finished from the Lua code updating part, you'd delete the props template exemplar and save the file. (File saving is also not an included Lua function.)

 

1 hour ago, BartonThinks said:

The scripted version would allow you to copy/paste Maxis RCI exemplars into a new DAT and then run a script that recalculates all of the pollution exemplar properties according to a specific formula.

Yes, you would need to copy all the exemplars by hand into a single new .dat file. From there, the script could add the Pollution at center and Polution radii properties. (For most, if not all, Maxis growable buildings those are in the Parent Cohort, but adding them to each building exemplar would create an override.) From there the code could calculate new numbers for each rep of those properties. Like based on Occupant Size or such.

 

1 hour ago, BartonThinks said:

The flora brush example, for instance, would allow you to quickly create 25 variants of a that could each be assigned unique IDs and names, which would allow them to be tested side-by-side in-game.

Well, no. The FloraBrush exemplar must be TGI 6534284a-6a01fc2a-2a31304e unless there is some way to also add 25 additional menu buttons and even then I'm not certain it would work. So, for this example, I believe it would require 25 separate .dat files and 25 times in and out of the game for testing as you swap each one in and out of Plugins.

Also, the size and strength of the brush can already be altered right in the game so I'm not sure I understand why there would be a need for a bunch of variations anyhow.

 

1 hour ago, BartonThinks said:

For example, let's say you want to batch alter the park effect values and radii of all Maxis lots. You could automate a script that recalculates the values, then tweak the calculation and re-run the script a few to create four variants.

This seems doable. Basically, the .dat is first created by hand to have all the exemplars that are to receive property modifications. Then the script can loop thru each one and alter the properties based on some formula.

[BartonThinks 3,416]

54 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

Well, no. The FloraBrush exemplar must be TGI 6534284a-6a01fc2a-2a31304e unless there is some way to also add 25 additional menu buttons and even then I'm not certain it would work. So, for this example, I believe it would require 25 separate .dat files and 25 times in and out of the game for testing as you swap each one in and out of Plugins.

Also, the size and strength of the brush can already be altered right in the game so I'm not sure I understand why there would be a need for a bunch of variations anyhow.

Ah, sorry -- I haven't worked with flora exemplars and I'm mixing up terminology. I was referring to MMP flora. For whatever reason, I assumed that MMP flora acted similar to the god-mode flora brush, just on a smaller scale, and included size/strength properties. But I just poked around in a few exemplars and that doesn't seem to be the case. Poor example.

For the T21 example from MGB, I believe the props would be pulled from ploppable lots created using PIM-X. That is, you'd have a set of ploppable lots (with props), then a corresponding set of T21 templates (without props), and the script would copy the props from the first set to the second.

[CorinaMarie 29,894]

2 hours ago, BartonThinks said:

For the T21 example from MGB, I believe the props would be pulled from ploppable lots created using PIM-X. That is, you'd have a set of ploppable lots (with props), then a corresponding set of T21 templates (without props), and the script would copy the props from the first set to the second.

That certainly sounds possible. Since I've never worked with T21s at all, I'll need a test file before I can explore the possibilities. Like a .dat file with the first exemplar being said PIM-X lot which has all the props and then another exemplar which is the one the props need to be copied into. Said test file can have all the other entries it needs too like FSH or PNGs or such. Those can just be skipped over when Lua examines the .dat file.

[rsc204 21,866]

1 hour ago, CorinaMarie said:

So, is this the base I'd copy the props into from some other T21 exemplar? I confess to still being confuzzled.

One thing the Lua code cannot do in Reader is to create a new exemplar. (The option simply isn't available in the C++ coded callable Lua functions.) However, adding, changing, and deleting property entries can be done. So, it seems we'd need to start with the first exemplar having all the props which are to be copied and then have however many additional exemplars that are to receive the props. Once finished from the Lua code updating part, you'd delete the props template exemplar and save the file. (File saving is also not an included Lua function.)

The simplest way to explain it is just to add Only the LotConfigPropertyLotObject properties to the T21 template. So if you can’t create new Exemplars, you’d have to remove all properties not used by the T21 template; adjust those that appear on both to mirror the T21 setup, if/where applicable. Then add those T21 specific properties/values. Hope that clarifies things, in short T21s use the identical LotConfigPropertyLotObject properties as LotConfig Exemplars do. The Exemplars are just Setup differently. 

[CorinaMarie 29,894]

11 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

The simplest way to explain it is just to add Only the LotConfigPropertyLotObject properties to the T21 template.

That seems doable. Basically, I need before and after examples in a .dat file. One exemplar being the original as created in PIM-X (or however) and the other being what it is after all the magic conversion is done. I realize these samples have to be created by hand atm, but without them I have nothing to actually compared to and formulate a game plan.

[rsc204 21,866]

5 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

I realize these samples have to be created by hand atm, but without them I have nothing to actually compared to and formulate a game plan.

Actually not, I should have suitable files tucked away somewhere. Since on occasion I have used Lots as templates for T21s, in essence the non-automated version of this process. I’ll have a dig around for you. 

[Flann 1,709]

On 8/25/2020 at 4:34 PM, CorinaMarie said:

That seems doable. Basically, I need before and after examples in a .dat file. One exemplar being the original as created in PIM-X (or however) and the other being what it is after all the magic conversion is done. I realize these samples have to be created by hand atm, but without them I have nothing to actually compared to and formulate a game plan.

This thread has really caught my attention now that I've been looking into T21 mods.  My interest comes from wanting to have season street trees.  My thought was that I would base my mod on the one by SFBT, which as far as I can tell just modifies the games standard street T21s.  However, they had it easier with non seasonal trees as they could use prop families to achieve variation in the trees.  However we can't do this with seasonal trees as the trees would be randomized through the seasons, which would be undesirable.  I think instead we could simply create more identical T21s with different trees and the game picks one at random.  However because it is so time consuming to transfer the lot config data from the editable lot to the T21, its really unappealing to have to do this more than once.  Say there are 100 exemplars to modify, if you want a selection of 8 trees, you have 800 exemplars to create.  A better solution would be to create the 100 exemplars with a seasonal tree (3 or 4 props) and then use a script to replace the prop resource keys with a new tree in the lot config data on all 100 exemplars at the same time.  Repeat several times for several trees and voila, seasonal street tree T21s.

[Raymond7cn 6,776]

7 hours ago, Flann said:

However we can't do this with seasonal trees as the trees would be randomized through the seasons,

Hiya @Flann, You could use this mod to solve this issue:

z_lk_floratuningparameters_seasonal_maxis_or_other

I haven't experienced in others, but as my mod i shared to you, it works pretty well on Girafe's trees.

Sincerely,

-- Raymond

[BartonThinks 3,416]

2 hours ago, Raymond7cn said:

Hiya @Flann, You could use this mod to solve this issue:

z_lk_floratuningparameters_seasonal_maxis_or_other

I haven't experienced in others, but as my mod i shared to you, it works pretty well on Girafe's trees.

Sincerely,

-- Raymond

Hey @Raymond7cn -- Unfortunately, Lowkee's flora tuning mod only works if flora grows at the right time.

That's why seasonal tree controllers and MMPs always say that flora needs to be planted at a particular time of year (usually September 1). If flora is planted at a different time of year, it will change seasons, but at the wrong times of the year. For example, if you plant a seasonal flora tree on March 1, it will have use the winter model during the summer,  the spring model during the fall, the summer model during the winter, etc.

This also happens when seasonal flora is used on lots and T21s. If the lot is plopped or grown at the wrong time of year, the flora will be out of sync with the seasons.

This is why lotters almost always avoid using seasonal flora, and instead use seasonal props. Seasonal props don't use flora tuning, so they always change seasons at the right time of year, which makes them a better choice for lots and T21s.

[Raymond7cn 6,776]

5 hours ago, BartonThinks said:

Hey @Raymond7cn -- Unfortunately, Lowkee's flora tuning mod only works if flora grows at the right time.

That's why seasonal tree controllers and MMPs always say that flora needs to be planted at a particular time of year (usually September 1). If flora is planted at a different time of year, it will change seasons, but at the wrong times of the year. For example, if you plant a seasonal flora tree on March 1, it will have use the winter model during the summer,  the spring model during the fall, the summer model during the winter, etc.

This also happens when seasonal flora is used on lots and T21s. If the lot is plopped or grown at the wrong time of year, the flora will be out of sync with the seasons.

This is why lotters almost always avoid using seasonal flora, and instead use seasonal props. Seasonal props don't use flora tuning, so they always change seasons at the right time of year, which makes them a better choice for lots and T21s.

Dear Barton, Thank you for the thoughtful correction, otherwise @Flann and others would be misled by my words,  Yes i have dimly recalled that i used to pause game and refresh all my roads at 1 September, Sorry about this mistake, it's been almost one year haven't played my cities.

Sincerely,

-- Raymond