Flag with no referent

[tariely 4,499]

I'm trying a(nother!)  park of mine to see if it can work without certain deps. It does (although looks quite bare), except for one flag. Hovering doesn't tell me what it is. And upon checking in the L.E., it doesn't correspond to anything ! (see pict). 

Is that another L.E. quirk we noobies don't know about ? Phantom flags ?

[Fantozzi 4,069]

If I'm right, this flag is a model by pegasus that would indicate your main building model is missing. Means: your des file points towards a model that isn't present in your plugins folder. Simply overrding the maxis brown boxes model.

Which would arise the question why this pegasus model is in your plugin folder during lotting. As it is an helper file for players only (indicating missing dependencies) during lotting it's of absolutely no use. My experience is - having stuff in your plugin folder during lotting you don't need you will confuse yourself.

 

 

  Edited November 26, 2017 by Fantozzi  
Added info.

[tariely 4,499]

I know what the flag is  , what I am wondering about is what it would correspond to, since there is no building there as the L.E. picture shows. I have PEG's file in my permanent folder, preferring flags to brown boxes. Of course I don't use it... Does that mean that just having it in the working plugins folder when I lot or relot exposes me to that intrusion ? But it didn't show up when I tried the park with all the relevant deps...

[Fantozzi 4,069]

It means your building exemplar (desc file) is pointing towards a model that isn't there.

3 minutes ago, tariely said:

But it didn't show up when I tried the park with all the relevant deps..

Try to replace the building again.

[licoricebomb 93]

Did you have a blank building on that lot before?

[tariely 4,499]

Ah. I just replaced it by my own blank. Is that it ??? But...but...but... I was advised not to keep the original blank if I wanted to tailor the properties as I wished.

And @Fantozzi, there is no building there, aaargh.

 

[tariely 4,499]

So what do I DO ?

[licoricebomb 93]

Well, I'm actually not sure what's gone wrong for you, since I'm not familiar with that particular prop. But we have at least figured out that the problem is related to you replacing the blank model...

[Fantozzi 4,069]

1 minute ago, tariely said:

I was advised not to keep the original blank if I wanted to tailor the properties ...

That's recommended, yes. It's just you can't simply kill the model (even if is invisible it's still a model. imagine a box with transparent walls). You must also adjust the reference to the maxis model. You need a building exemplar pointing to the right model, the blank maxis model.

Did you create building exemplars in PIM-X before?

[tariely 4,499]

@licoricebombThe other problem, then, is that I replaced the blank model on many other lots and I never had a flag when plopping them afterwards...

Argh again.

@Fantozzi : yes, that's how I created my own blank model. What is" adjust the reference to the maxis model" ? I was never advised to "adjust the reference to the maxis model" !  What is the "maxis model" ? Where am I ? Who am I  ? Who are you ? What year is this ? 

AAAAARGH.

 

[Fantozzi 4,069]

2 minutes ago, tariely said:

The other problem, then, is that I replaced the blank model on many other lots

So how did you do that?

[tariely 4,499]

Went to the L.E. Selected "Building". Highlighted the existing building. Clicked Replace Building. Replaced with my own. Save.

[rsc204 21,869]

Before we rush to conclusions, can you quickly confirm the model with the coloured flag is actually the building upon the lot. It could just as easily be one of the props, which changes things dramatically.

If you've correctly linked your buildings exemplar to a valid blank model, then this flag would never appear. To clarify, if you used PIM-X and dragged the blank from there to make your building, then you've done things correctly.

[tariely 4,499]

It is not a prop. Look at the picture. There is no prop there. NO PROP  (leaves, looking for a blunt knife to commit seppuku)

[licoricebomb 93]

I wonder if maybe it IS a prop, perhaps a light effect associated with that lamp post? Could you double check?

[Fantozzi 4,069]

8 minutes ago, tariely said:

Look at the picture.

How to see a missing prop from the picture you posted? You have to check this in the editor window, not in the preview window?

[rsc204 21,869]

17 minutes ago, tariely said:

Look at the picture. There is no prop there. NO PROP

What do you mean? The picture shows a lot, which has props on it, clearly. I know the flag part is not showing correctly, but it's important to know if that flag is a prop or the building on the lot.

So for absolute clarity, if you select the building tab, can you move the problem object? If not, it's a prop (which can only be moved when Props are selected), even if it's not a working one.

8 minutes ago, licoricebomb said:

I wonder if maybe it IS a prop, perhaps a light effect associated with that lamp post? Could you double check?

It can't be such a thing, what gives it away is that it's not simply red, but multi-coloured. In short this happens in PIM-X's LE because it can't correctly display many RTK0 or true 3D props, so failing to fetch the textures, they appear all red. However the Maxis LE uses the rendering engine from the game and can happily display such props correctly.

If you see a multi-coloured texture one of two things is happening. A model (prop, building whatever) is being called but the texture for it is missing. Or, which I suspect is the case, this is simply the PEG mod's way of showing a missing model with an override. Because the Oops mod is installed.

[tariely 4,499]

Guys' I'm getting seriously confused. Please bear with my old ageing brain . Let's see... the picture on the left is the L.E. window ; the picture on the right is the in-game picture I took.... Which other  picture do you want to see ? the one on the right of the L.E. window, with the props in blue ? O...K. Ah. yegad, there is a prop. I'm so dumb.

OK, then ; the question becomes : in which pack is that prop located ? But I know how to proceed from there, I think  (If someone here happens to know where, please do tell , to spare me the halfsies blues!!! ) Thank you for shedding the light of reason, once more, guys.

[Fantozzi 4,069]

Well, I suggest giving rsc204 a big like for putting you on the right track.

[tariely 4,499]

An HYPER big like (but you can hit the button only once) !

And having iLiveReader and the complete list of deps helped, with some quick deduction : it's in SFBT Street_Tree_mod with the Maxis HD replacement mod... No halfsies, hurray ! 

[tariely 4,499]

er... rejoicing too son ? That folder has been in my working plugins the whole time, not part of the folders I took out to test the lot without some of the greenery... 

...........

checked and rechecked ; it IS that tree, and it SHOULD NOT be missing. The SFBT + Maxis HD replacement is in my working plugins folder, root level.

Ah. Maybe a deps of that folder was in the folder I took out ?

Back to it.

............

yup, that was it. Flags : 0 Tariely : 1 !!!!

[mattb325 28,894]

Glad to see you got that sorted 

 

When I started with custom content back in 2005, Barbyw was the total lot maker extraordinaire (back in those days before the PIM-X, you were either a batter, lot decorator or a lot technician; and a lot technician was very rare as it involved extensive knowledge of the reader and game-mechanics....and to have barbyw as both a decorator and technician was rarer still). Even to this day, it is still common to find many batters can't mod or lot or many lotters who can't mod, modders who can't lot, etc, etc. It must be something to do with the left/right hemisphere of the brain. 

Barbyw gave me some very sage advice which all the old lot technician stalwarts use - think Twrecks, Andreas, etc - and I still use it to this day. Start with an empty plugins (have nothing in the root of your plugins either) and make your lot that way. Then save it (even if it means you only have 1 Maxis bench and 1 Maxis disabled car-park placard + base textures on the lot), then start adding custom content prop packs. No more than a few at a time, saving and re-opening as you go. Of course, once you become a dab hand, you will mostly just start with the packs you need, but one step at a time....

Then unless you have forgotten to note a pack that you used, you will almost never have an issue with a missing dependency again. I guarantee it.

There are some other things that I have noticed you should remove from your plugins - the file called 'merged.dat'. Delete it, and any lots that depend on it. It is a very old, badly modded file that just contains a whole list of over-rides, and no good will come from having it in your plugins.

 

Then, check your my doc plugins and root plugins folder for any of these files:

• merged.dat
• plugin tree.dat
• bush.dat
• Plugin_B90_residentialbuildings_prop_modd.dat
• Plugin_B91_commercialbuildings_prop_modd.dat 
• Plugin_A80_PlugModd_functional.dat
• Plugin_020_PlopLandmarks.dat
• Plugin_RCI_Buildings_Prop_Modd.dat

And delete them as well. The last five should be replaced with bldgprop_vol1 &  bldgprop_vol02.

 

As for which prop packs to use, a number of years ago, Jmouse went to a HUGE amount of effort to visually catalogue each prop inside prop packs. It is not complete (and is unlikely to be unless someone else picks it up) but the sheer volume of work is astounding. It is probably one of the most valuable tools for a lot decorator to have as you can quickly see what prop is inside each pack, so if you are looking for a specific car/tree/bench, whatever, it is quick and easy to reference. It lists most of the common prop packs in existence up until 2012.

They are all available here: Visual Gold for Lot Decorators (you have to be logged in to see it)

[tariely 4,499]

@mattb325 Thank you Matt. Sage advice indeed. I already deleted merged.dat. And thankfully, I have none of the other culprits. Always have had bldgprop 1& 2. That's something at least :-).

And of course I knew Jmouse catalogue. (There are so many "no image" , though....). I was kinda learning by experience what props [I like...;-)] are in which props pack and already have a good general idea, but it sure is more time consuming (and meanwhile poor gamer are stuck with my lists of deps ! I get it. Although, as a dependency chaser myself until only a few months back, I must say -- as a player-- that not having most of the deps I use must keep a player for having access to a LOT of wonderful custom content... 

While you're here I have a question about making one own's Megaprops pack that you could give as the few deps required for your own lots. You did that (a few others  did it too)" But I think you made your props, right ? But I saw several other Megaproppackers made their own versions of existing props. I was wondering about doing that somehow but I am told it's a rather touchy subject, even with the permission of the original creators. It is a Mega no-no ? Or is it permissible to a certain extent ?

[mattb325 28,894]

When you see the "no image" it is likely that these prop packs just contain the exemplar to another model file (most likely in another pack).

I made all my own Bats and don't link examplars to other packs.

It's not something I like as it makes a dependency of dependencies of dependencies. For older custom content the two main reasons it was done was legacy: some to alter Maxis prop behaviours while others were linking to another authors pack which contained ONLY models.

Back before PIM-X, it was common place for Batters simply to churn out a whole lot of files but they no idea how to put them into game. Barby, Colyn or Grampa Al would get these files, package them as a single .dat with no exemplars; then another user who could lot/mod would make their own pack and put the intended exemplars in that.

All a bit convoluted if you ask me.

Nowdays there would be almost no reason I could see to warrant a dependency pack full of exemplars to other Model files. If there is a model you want to use that exists as a dependency, but it is used as say a building file, and you want it as a prop, simply do it for that lot. If however you foresee yourself  using that self-same model over and over again, then perhaps create a little essentials file, but I would honestly try to avoid that approach. 

[tariely 4,499]

Duly noted (and it's good to know the history of the question !  ) I guess the Dependency Problem will nevr be solved in a manner satisfactory to everybody. I remember chasing deps as a grunt (I still do when necessary and, perversely, my inner hoarder likes it) and passing over some lots or mods, in the beginning, because there were "too many deps" -- I"m talking 2004 or 2005 here, when custom content was really taking flight... and computers were not the crunching beasts they are now (that also has a bearing on the question, doesn't it ?) Then I realized that many of those deps were basics, and once you had them you were set for (SimCity) life. Everyone should have almost all the BSC prop packs stashed somewhere, for instance). Most of the one I use are that. And some are what I consider to be the new basics (VIP-Girafe or Namspopof, for instance). But. Despite all appearances  I do believe that less is more when it comes to lotting or relotting, and I will strive to live by that law !