AutoStreet Disable?

[HayleyRenaNemeth 465]

When you zone the game will try to automatically try to lay out streets in what it thinks is an effort to be helpful. However this always gets in the way. I would like to know if there is a way you can make this go away completely. I know the thing about holding shift. I want it to not happen. 

[rsc204 21,866]

Sorry but this is pretty much hard-coded behaviour, as such altering it is not really possible.

Use of Shift, Control, Alt and the various combinations thereof will all change the way this works. But if that's not working how you intend, you're stuck with simply zoning things manually piece by piece.

[Compdude787 916]

Shift is the key you hold down to prevent streets from showing up. The Control key takes multiple lots and combines them into one, and the Alt key rotates a zone.

[HayleyRenaNemeth 465]

1 minute ago, Compdude787 said:

Shift is the key you hold down to prevent streets from showing up. The Control key takes multiple lots and combines them into one, and the Alt key rotates a zone.

maybe someone could make toggle that simulates holding down shift , I'm not sure. 

[APSMS 1,893]

6 hours ago, AprilAero said:

maybe someone could make toggle that simulates holding down shift , I'm not sure. 

What exactly is wrong with simply holding down the button everytime you need to zone something?

The only time I have a problem with this is when I zone Industrials or Farms, and then you just do as big as possible and then zone again immediately adjacent if you need something bigger.

I lay out all my streets beforehand, and then zone afterwards, so the ALT key is usually all that I need, because I almost always do 3 deep lots, sometimes 2, and you just go row by row, and when the zone is small enough ALT tends to remove streets as well, when SHIFT might cause wonky zone layouts to appear (not usually, but sometimes tricky terrain, my favorite kind, will trigger this).

If you really need the key held down, Windows accessibility options does offer Sticky Keys, which allows you to use the SHIFT ALT CTRL buttons as toggles rather than hold-down buttons. It's a pain to use, but there's a shortcut you can enable to quickly turn the feature on and off when you don't need it handy.

[HayleyRenaNemeth 465]

1 minute ago, APSMS said:

What exactly is wrong with simply holding down the button everytime you need to zone something?

The only time I have a problem with this is when I zone Industrials or Farms, and then you just do as big as possible and then zone again immediately adjacent if you need something bigger.

I lay out all my streets beforehand, and then zone afterwards, so the ALT key is usually all that I need, because I almost always do 3 deep lots, sometimes 2, and you just go row by row, and when the zone is small enough ALT tends to remove streets as well, when SHIFT might cause wonky zone layouts to appear (not usually, but sometimes tricky terrain, my favorite kind, will trigger this).

If you really need the key held down, Windows accessibility options does offer Sticky Keys, which allows you to use the SHIFT ALT CTRL buttons as toggles rather than hold-down buttons. It's a pain to use, but there's a shortcut you can enable to quickly turn the feature on and off when you don't need it handy.

I use a trackpad so it can be hard to hold down and drag at the same time. 

[APSMS 1,893]

Just now, AprilAero said:

I use a trackpad so it can be hard to hold down and drag at the same time. 

SC4 is always a 2-handed operation for me. Moreso now that my mouse has worn switches which gives it the painful quality of refusing to hold down clicks. Fortunately I'm on a laptop, and the trackpad buttons work just as well, but I've always got one hand on the keyboard and another on the mouse ( fingers by the keyboard, thumb goes on the top row of mouse buttons; I have a business laptop that has a trackpoint/joystick secondary mouse).

Sticky Keys still works though, if you really need it.

[HayleyRenaNemeth 465]

1 minute ago, APSMS said:

SC4 is always a 2-handed operation for me. Moreso now that my mouse has worn switches which gives it the painful quality of refusing to hold down clicks. Fortunately I'm on a laptop, and the trackpad buttons work just as well, but I've always got one hand on the keyboard and another on the mouse ( fingers by the keyboard, thumb goes on the top row of mouse buttons; I have a business laptop that has a trackpoint/joystick secondary mouse).

Sticky Keys still works though, if you really need it.

yea its a 2 handed thing for me, it requires you to do three things at once . luckily this laptop has a trackpad similar to a macbook pro where you can clip anywhere on the pad. however you can't scroll while you are holding down a click so I usually use the arrow keys to move around . so I would realistically need to splash around in some toxic waste so I grow a third hand. 

[rsc204 21,866]

1 hour ago, AprilAero said:

so I would realistically need to splash around in some toxic waste so I grow a third hand. 

Or just connect a mouse to it. I hate trackpads with a passion, I find a TrackPoint to be vastly superior, but I know most people feel otherwise. They are great when you are on the go, but as soon as I'm looking to do any serious work, a proper mouse gets plugged in. Not that I use my laptop much when I'm at home, but I know many people have laptops instead of desktops, since they are smaller and can be moved about.

[HayleyRenaNemeth 465]

1 hour ago, rsc204 said:

Or just connect a mouse to it. I hate trackpads with a passion, I find a TrackPoint to be vastly superior, but I know most people feel otherwise. They are great when you are on the go, but as soon as I'm looking to do any serious work, a proper mouse gets plugged in. Not that I use my laptop much when I'm at home, but I know many people have laptops instead of desktops, since they are smaller and can be moved about.

I'm a wizard with the trackpad , I do have a mouse I use with my MacBook Pro for when I am making music using Logic Pro 9 (I've not got X yet)  .  plus I usually play on a bed with it on me lap so I would need a surface. I've not had a desktop in over 5 years. 

[APSMS 1,893]

9 hours ago, AprilAero said:

I usually play on a bed with it on me lap so I would need a surface

I do this a lot. Make sure to have a good space between your legs and the laptop, for ventilation and heat (mine gets hot).

I have a logitech M505, and it works just fine on my covers, though a decent hardback (minus dust jacket) works as well.

[rsc204 21,866]

2 hours ago, APSMS said:

I do this a lot. Make sure to have a good space between your legs and the laptop, for ventilation and heat (mine gets hot).

Every laptop manufacturer states in the documentation not to block the vents. On any sort of soft-surface this is a real problem. Laptops die real easy from thermal issues, few are designed very well in the first place. When it goes, you are looking at a whole new machine, since repairs are typically more expensive than replacement. If I had an expensive Mac Book, I'd use a TV tray or some such to ensure cooling systems could work optimally. Although a modern Intel processor running desktop (i.e. non-intensive) applications, should remain pretty cool in normal operation.

I don't really have to worry about such things, my laptop (Sony Viao P) is fanless with no moving parts. That's another way of saying it's not very quick though .

2 hours ago, APSMS said:

I have a logitech M505, and it works just fine on my covers, though a decent hardback (minus dust jacket) works as well.

I have a second wireless mouse connected, I use it when I'm watching videos on my TV. It's nothing fancy, but works on my leg, the arm of the sofa and many other surfaces just fine. Optical technology is good .

[APSMS 1,893]

3 hours ago, rsc204 said:

Every laptop manufacturer states in the documentation not to block the vents. On any sort of soft-surface this is a real problem.

I keep my legs separated, and use a dime-store novel to keep the hot side separated from my leg, since paper doesn't have good thermal conductivity.

The real problem I have, I think, is that my heatsink isn't properly seated on the CPU ever since I dropped the laptop about a year ago. The vent is very easy to avoid on the bottom (directly in the middle); my computer runs hotly regardless, and I think the heat sink seating is the main issue. I've plans to reseat the heat sink with some nice thermal paste, but I need a good desk, some nice thermal paste, and a solid 4 or 5 hours to accomplish, since I've never done it before (but the Service manual for my laptop makes it appear reasonably possible--all screws, no special fittings or glue, and only minor amounts of fiddly bits).

I've been meaning to make an eGPU for my laptop for a while now (via the ExpressCard slot; I have a Dell e6520 which squeaks by in terms of successful setups). It would make a number of other games I have decently playable at 30 to 50 FPS (I've gotten very used to playing games at 20FPS, which is unplayable for most people, but borderline for me nowadays is 15FPS). The thing I really like about the eGPU option is that it gives me the potential to turn any machine into a mid-tier gaming rig, no matter what the setup, provided I have the appropriate connections, which means it has significant future-proof potential.

The trackpoint on the Dell machines is not that great (compared to IBM/Lenovo), but it is fun to use, and I am infinitely thankful for the top row of mouse buttons right underneath the spacebar, because it makes so many other maneuvers possible. I'd have broken down and bought a new mouse ages ago if it weren't for that top row that I've been using as a substitute click+hold LC button for my mouse.

[rsc204 21,866]

1 hour ago, APSMS said:

I've plans to reseat the heat sink with some nice thermal paste, but I need a good desk, some nice thermal paste, and a solid 4 or 5 hours to accomplish, since I've never done it before (but the Service manual for my laptop makes it appear reasonably possible--all screws, no special fittings or glue, and only minor amounts of fiddly bits).

Most laptops will come apart, but indeed, without the service manual, you are bound to break something on a modern machine. I won't touch a laptop unless it's dead, even then I won't take any responsibility for breakages, it's too easy to snap a plastic clip on most of them whilst working. That said, my Viao P is the smallest thing I've ever opened, hugely fiddly, but it needed a new HDD, which is so small it uses the same model as the old HDD-based iPods. I even needed to break out my 000 size screwdriver for that one. Thankfully I got the service manual and all went OK. Had I paid full retail, I wouldn't have attempted it, I got it cheap because the HDD was dying.

As for Thermal Paste being the solution to your problem, I'm sorry to say, I find that unlikely. In all the time I've been making and repairing PCs, I've never come across a situation where that was necessary. More likely the heat sink isn't correctly aligned, possibly even broken somehow (where it's held in place). If there was a serious problem, your computer would have overheated by now and died. I remember one of two AMD machines I ever built, this one was my brothers PC. It was nothing but trouble constantly, I was so sick of repairing it. Me and a friend, both qualified professionals were trying to figure out the cause. We took the whole thing apart, but that model chip had a real nasty locking mechanism on it. Easy to cut yourself, easy to break the motherboard too. So rather than affix it, I thought we'd rest the heaksink on it for a quick post-test before hand, since that way if it didn't post, we wouldn't have to take it off again. Cue the words "It'll be alright if we just post test it, right?", to the response "Uh, yeah, probably". Well faster than you can time it, there was smoke and the CPU/board were dead. I went to the store, bought a Pentium III replacement and was actually glad I'd broken it. It was the last time I had to fix that PC, in fact, I know it's still in use today. Having leant it to a friends mother a very long time ago, she simply never upgraded or replaced it (or gave it back!). The point being, poor thermal contact = insta-death, not increased temperatures.

I'd open it up, inspect if for any blockages/dust, make sure everything's seated right, possibly (because it's cheap and can't hurt) replace the thermal paste and hope that cures things. Is the fan louder than usual, especially when starting from cold? Fans die all the time, they are the cheapest part of the cooling system and most likely to break. If you knocked the fan slightly off it's axis when you dropped it, that would impede it's operation considerably.

1 hour ago, APSMS said:

I've been meaning to make an eGPU for my laptop for a while now (via the ExpressCard slot

I don't really know what to make of that solution. ExpressCard, is not necessarily the fastest connection. It'd bottleneck most cards pretty quickly I'd imagine. On a modern machine (Intel), you'd probably be better off with the on-board graphics. It depends on the implementation of ExpressCard you have, if it runs on PCI-E 1.0 or greater, it might be OK. If yours doesn't meet those specs, it'll have the same bandwidth as USB 2.0. Not forgetting, it must share this bandwidth with any other PCI-based peripherals that are included in the machine, usually that means WiFi/Bluetooth cards, but other things could be integrated into the bus too on the mainboard. I think if I was spending serious money on one, I'd want to see the performance first hand before handing over my cash.

[APSMS 1,893]

1 hour ago, rsc204 said:

It depends on the implementation of ExpressCard you have, if it runs on PCI-E 1.0 or greater, it might be OK. If yours doesn't meet those specs, it'll have the same bandwidth as USB 2.0

PCI-E 2.0, along with the wonky Optimus technology that reportedly compresses the data in unforeseen ways that allowed others using my machine to get data throughput rates that were twice what was mathematically possible; that is, the framerate exceeded physical expectations. I'm pretty sure the data rate was still intact.

Theoretically 2.5Gbps via the Expresscard, which for a 1366x768 screen should be more than adequate; 750Ti apparently worked wonders for everything I expect out of it. It's not Thunderbolt by any stretch, but tbh it doesn't have to be. The beauty of an eGPU setup is that you build it yourself, so you aren't paying for anything you don't know about explicitly.

The Intel Chip in SandyBridge is nice, and plays OK, except when I ask it to do anything. I have a NVS4200M, which apparently is the business equivalent of a GTX520M, which is a pretty pathetic chip, and just squeaks by.

RE: Heatsink

     I'll look into the fan. It's never been a terribly quiet machine, and the fan has never appeared to have any problems. That said, ebay probably has them for cheap. It could be that or the heatsink. I can't believe the heatsink would break that easily, and it's good to know about the proper seating bit; new thermal paste can't hurt, but I think I'll be extra careful when buttoning everything back up. The heatsink is just two copper coated aluminum pipes that go from the CPU over to the fan unit; it's probably terribly expensive but it's not like I've the option of servicing it with Dell (at least, not if I want to have any money left over afterwards).

EDIT: hmm. Heatsink unit includes fan and costs $30. not bad. A used, working MoBo I found for $120. No CPU, of course, but I found my model used for ~$100, which is not bad considering I can't buy an old retail unit (mobile chips never sold to public and all that).

Really I figure if I just take it really slow, and double check everything, I'll have done the best as can be expected. Really the way it overheats now isn't really acceptable, and I've gotta do something to fix it because I expect the laptop to last another 5 years, which it won't do given how hot it currently runs. Plus all the refurb models are only dual core i5s, and I really like my i7 quad, even if I don't really need it.

[rsc204 21,866]

4 minutes ago, APSMS said:

Theoretically 2.5Gbps via the Expresscard

Certainly adequate.

5 minutes ago, APSMS said:

750Ti apparently worked wonders for everything I expect out of it

That's the card I have. I didn't need so much power, but it was the first generation of more power-friendly GPUs, hence the purchase. Easily within the $100 range these days too. If you want to ensure a bit of future proofing though, try to find a card with as much vRAM as you can afford. If you play games, 4GB today is the least I'd consider.

6 minutes ago, APSMS said:

The Intel Chip in SandyBridge is nice

Yeah, on-board GPUs hadn't quite got there yet in the Sandybridge chips. By comparison, the Haswell's are amazing (HD4x00). Had it not been for driver issues with SC4, I'd never have bought the NVidia, I don't need it. Of course that got solved, but I'd have been 2 years+ waiting in the meantime.

8 minutes ago, APSMS said:

hmm. Heatsink unit includes fan and costs $30. not bad. A used, working MoBo I found for $120

Wouldn't touch a used mobo with a very large stick, certainly not a laptop one. #1 cause of laptop death = overheating. The chances that will live a long time are slim, plus you can't know what sort of a life it had. $30 for a heatsink/fan is OK, provided it's a genuine part. I've be tempted to take a punt on one. After all, if that's not the source of your heat problems, the computer is probably on it's way out. In which case, chuck it on eBay whilst it's worth something and put the money towards a replacement. Assuming you can afford one. Otherwise, consider a external fan of sorts, it'll help keep it alive longer, even if it is annoying to have the attachment.

[CorinaMarie 29,894]

5 hours ago, rsc204 said:

Fans die all the time, ...

^ This.

I've worked on a zillion old (mostly very old) comps and dying fans and dust build up are the culprit most times. One thing I accidentally discovered is how to see a suspect fan's death throws. I was working on a desktop comp. Motherboard parallel to my physical desktop. GPU card then vertical at 90^o to same. It has a heat sink and a small fan which is like about 1 inch diameter. Watching it run it seemed ok but touching the heat sink just felt hotter than it ought to be. So, as a quick fix I plugged in a case fan (about 3 inch diameter) and set it at an angle on adjacent, empty slots and let it blow on the card's heat sink.

The fun part is while looking thru the big fan at the little fan is that I could see it appear to be turning slowly but then slow down and even look like it was turning in the opposite direction. Then it would speed up again. I was seeing the equivalent of a strobe light effect. That showed me that the GPU's fan was not turning at full speed all the time and was in fact running in fits and starts and therefore not cooling to its original design capacity. I replaced the faulty fan and all is well again.

[matias93 7,535]

On 01/29/2017 at 5:55 AM, APSMS said:

The only time I have a problem with this is when I zone Industrials or Farms, and then you just do as big as possible and then zone again immediately adjacent if you need something bigger.

After IRM, I'm the crazy guy that zones industrial at specific sizes, always. Or sadly doesn't work as well with agro.

On 01/29/2017 at 6:00 AM, APSMS said:

( fingers by the keyboard, thumb goes on the top row of mouse buttons; I have a business laptop that has a trackpoint/joystick secondary mouse).

Same configuration on my thinkpad; I've found myself using the mouse diagonally, with the thumb on the lower left button, the index on the pad and the other fingers on the upper right button and the space bar. I guess that wasn't designed for that. But yes, a separate mouse is the way to go; in simcity is not such a problem, but in timed games (RTSes for example) you cannot react at the right time.

14 hours ago, APSMS said:

I do this a lot. Make sure to have a good space between your legs and the laptop, for ventilation and heat (mine gets hot).

Until I get to the work to build a desk, I'm using a very neat bed-table with an included USB fan. Only problem? Is there just one in home, so that means we are usually stealing it from each other room

6 hours ago, APSMS said:

The heatsink is just two copper coated aluminum pipes that go from the CPU over to the fan unit; it's probably terribly expensive but it's not like I've the option of servicing it with Dell

Maybe it's too sketchy of a solution (that isn't the word), but you could use some cooper plate (I've seen them at 2 USD per 30x20 cms), shaped as the pipes, to replace the broken parts cheaply.

 

1 hour ago, CorinaMarie said:

Then it would speed up again. I was seeing the equivalent of a strobe light effect. That showed me that the GPU's fan was not turning at full speed

Great idea! I've had fighting with the software to get some speed stats instead, that's much simpler.

* * *

And by the way, would you like to see this thread splitted since it went from the game to technical cues? I would cut after APSMS' post at 6:00 AM of yesterday (GMT -3)

[rsc204 21,866]

4 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

The fun part is while looking thru the big fan at the little fan is that I could see it appear to be turning slowly but then slow down and even look like it was turning in the opposite direction. Then it would speed up again. I was seeing the equivalent of a strobe light effect.

Often there are either visual or audible clues that a fan is not really working. But I like to install some utilities to check temps/fan speeds where possible. GPU-Z and CPU-Z are handy for this. Then again, I recently took one apart that was covered in the most hideous coloured dust. The irony being, the user kept his PC case open, thinking it would keep the PC cooler. However, it just helped more dust to build up than would otherwise have been possible. Until two weeks ago, I'd be raving about my Fractal Design case, with it's dust filters and noise insulation, which keeps it very clean. But since it's looking ever more likely that's what took my machine down, I'll warn everyone from buying their cheaply manufactured rubbish instead. Faulty cables causing electrical shorts, since switching the case, my PC works for the most part, but the damage is done and it's cost me an expensive motherboard in the process.

3 hours ago, matias93 said:

Maybe it's too sketchy of a solution (that isn't the word), but you could use some cooper plate (I've seen them at 2 USD per 30x20 cms), shaped as the pipes, to replace the broken parts cheaply.

To save $28 on an official new part, I'd probably avoid that. As I said before, if you get it wrong, you'll fry the CPU without warning. Without proper contact between the CPU and heatsink, it'll be up in smoke the moment you press the power switch.

Thinking about it, you could throttle the CPU through software or where supported, the BIOS. At least in the meantime, it would reduce the thermal problems, preventing a reduced operating life. That said, within reason and i7 can handle some pretty high temps. Mine is fine at 90°, I think Sandy Bridge parts are similar, but you should check the TDP of the specific chip.

3 hours ago, matias93 said:

And by the way, would you like to see this thread splitted since it went from the game to technical cues? I would cut after APSMS' post at 6:00 AM of yesterday (GMT -3)

You're probably right, I keep going off topic recently . :edit: However, the question remains, to where? Wasn't there a section for general PC support/help somewhere? Could be my sleep deprivation, but I can't find such a thing

[CorinaMarie 29,894]

5 hours ago, rsc204 said:

You're probably right, I keep going off topic recently . :edit: However, the question remains, to where?

I'd say right here in GD or over in the Techy Bugs would be fine. That'll keep it more visible then, say, Off Topic.

@matias93 I can do the split if you like when I get caught up with my beeps here.

[rsc204 21,866]

23 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

I'd say right here in GD or over in the Techy Bugs would be fine. That'll keep it more visible then, say, Off Topic.

Thing is, neither is right though. Without being picky, this discussion (the off topic part) isn't pertinent to SC4, so Off Topic seems the logical home. I was just sure there was a general computer issues thread somewhere, perhaps it was removed/renamed?

[CorinaMarie 29,894]

12 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

Thing is, neither is right though. Without being picky, this discussion (the off topic part) isn't pertinent to SC4, so Off Topic seems the logical home.

True, but I feel strict adherence to forum headings isn't necessary. Make the new thread title something like: Getting Hot in Bed with SC4 and a Laptop and call it close enough. I consider it Sim City related enough cause players need comps that run well.

[rsc204 21,866]

I'm sorry, but that logic doesn't work for me at all... "a place for everything and everything in it's place". I'm not looking to argue the point. But if you feel strongly enough about the rules to split the topic, shouldn't you follow those same rules regarding where to move it? Anyhow, I'll leave the ball in your court, that's the last I'll say on the matter.

[CorinaMarie 29,894]

Honestly, I don't mind if it's not split or if it is and where it goes. I'm just tossing out my ideas. How about we let @matias93 decide?

And grats on passing 4k rep points.

[matias93 7,535]

Aehh, I guess that since Hayley was the one that opened the thread, and no one has been actually annoyed with the mix, she should be the one to decide.

[HayleyRenaNemeth 465]

2 hours ago, matias93 said:

Aehh, I guess that since Hayley  was the one that opened the thread, and no one has been actually annoyed with the mix, she should be the one to decide.

just leave it here and I am Hayley. no new topics.

[HayleyRenaNemeth 465]

5 hours ago, rsc204 said:

I'm sorry, but that logic doesn't work for me at all... "a place for everything and everything in it's place". I'm not looking to argue the point. But if you feel strongly enough about the rules to split the topic, shouldn't you follow those same rules regarding where to move it? Anyhow, I'll leave the ball in your court, that's the last I'll say on the matter.

yes I don't like the over assertion of modulation. Mods are not supposed to interfere in the content of the thread.  There are lines that should not be crossed and they have. 

[rsc204 21,866]

1 hour ago, AprilAero said:

yes I don't like the over assertion of modulation. Mods are not supposed to interfere in the content of the thread.  There are lines that should not be crossed and they have. 

Moderation is a thankless task. Indeed if you go to far, you'll upset people. But it's sometimes a necessary evil. Without it, the forums become one giant mess that makes it harder for people who come along less regularly to find the information they need. Great efforts are underway to try and improve the organisation of content and make things easier. Although I do agree a light touch is usually all that is required.

However, there is a case for splitting this topic, because we're far from the original subject. Sometimes an off topic question is asked, it generates a post or two and that's the end of things. In such cases I'm all for leaving it as it is. But when you start going down a different path altogether, it often makes sense to split the two discussions for clarity. If someone comes to this thread now, wishing to talk about the original question, they may feel their answer is lost somewhere between two completely different discussions. I think for now, we can leave things be, but if the initial conversation strikes up again, we'll move the computer related discussion elsewhere.

In the meantime, if you feel that a post or discussion has been unfairly moderated, you do have the right to politely raise your concerns. I know the internet is not always a nice place, but I'd like to think we do things better around here.

[HayleyRenaNemeth 465]

11 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

Moderation is a thankless task. Indeed if you go to far, you'll upset people. But it's sometimes a necessary evil. Without it, the forums become one giant mess that makes it harder for people who come along less regularly to find the information they need. Great efforts are underway to try and improve the organisation of content and make things easier. Although I do agree a light touch is usually all that is required.

However, there is a case for splitting this topic, because we're far from the original subject. Sometimes an off topic question is asked, it generates a post or two and that's the end of things. In such cases I'm all for leaving it as it is. But when you start going down a different path altogether, it often makes sense to split the two discussions for clarity. If someone comes to this thread now, wishing to talk about the original question, they may feel their answer is lost somewhere between two completely different discussions. I think for now, we can leave things be, but if the initial conversation strikes up again, we'll move the computer related discussion elsewhere.

well its my view that the original topic is dead given that its a hard coded issue

[rsc204 21,866]

17 minutes ago, AprilAero said:

well its my view that the original topic is dead given that its a hard coded issue

Agreed. Hence I don't see an issue with going off-topic. After all, we're all here to discuss, a bit of freedom and flexibility keeps activity on the site more alive IMHO. Given how quiet it was for a while back there, I think where possible we should encourage discussion within reason.