Which Digital Version of SC4D is Best?

[CorinaMarie 29,922]

Hiya!

I read this: http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/you-shouldnt-buy-simcity-4-from-origin.html which (by googling) led me to this: https://simtarkus.wordpress.com/2014/08/24/psa-dont-buy-simcity-4-from-origin/

So, it seems there are 3 or more digital versions of the game available. If I'm remembering correctly, A Nonny Moose said something about the Steam version being invasive and requiring online verification each time you start the game. Also, something about them (or a different version) adding their name into the header of something or other which causes problems using custom content.

I have a dedicated, non-connected to the internet comp specifically for my SimCity 4 and a few other games. I currently have the CD version installed and it works fine. I am, however, considering buying the digital version so I don't have to swap discs for each game I play.  Which version is the most NAM and other custom content friendly? Do they specifically state which region it's for? Like I'd want my road traffic to drive on the right side of the road as it is my current Sku1_US edition. Also, do the digital versions work on XP Pro SP3?

Thanks.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Unless something has changed, all of the digital versions are build 1,1,641.  The difference is that some vendors, notably Steam and Origin, have some idea of applying DRM controls which are not possible with this game.  Generally you want a vendor who gives you the original Maxis structure without interference.  If you run a 64-bit operating system (as I do) this is the installation structure you should get:

C:\Program Files (x86)\Maxis\

 SimCity 4 Deluxe
    ├── Apps
    ├── eauninstall.exe
    ├── eauninstall.ico
    ├── English
    ├── EP1.dat
    ├── EULA
    ├── filelist.txt
    ├── Fonts
    ├── Graphics Rules.sgr
    ├── Intro.dat
    ├── Plugins
    ├── Radio
    ├── Regions
    ├── SC4_ConnectToWebIcon.ico
    ├── SC4.ico
    ├── SC4_uninst.exe
    ├── SimCity_1.dat
    ├── SimCity_2.dat
    ├── SimCity_3.dat
    ├── SimCity_4.dat
    ├── SimCity_5.dat
    ├── Sku_Data
    ├── Sound.dat
    ├── Support
    └── Video Cards.sgr

and a user structure in C:\<your account>\Documents\

SimCity 4
├── Archive
├── BSC_Cleanitol
├── Exception Reports
├── Exemplars
├── HTTPCache
├── LBT_Downloads
├── LEX_Downloads
├── NAM Auxiliary Files
├── Plugins
├── Regions
└── SimCity 4.cfg

Since mine is a little on the used side, this may be contain stuff created by things I've loaded later.

I got mine from GamersGate.

[Prophet42 1,503]

I got my digital copy from GOG.  No DRM, was able to install in the folder of my choosing, fully patched to 1.1.641.  I was able to buy the game on sale for $7.99

[CorinaMarie 29,922]

3 hours ago, Prophet42 said:

I got my digital copy from GOG.  No DRM, was able to install in the folder of my choosing, fully patched to 1.1.641.  I was able to buy the game on sale for $7.99

Woot! Two votes for the same thing. I'm convinced. Thanks!

[rsc204 21,868]

12 hours ago, Prophet42 said:

I got my digital copy from GOG.  No DRM, was able to install in the folder of my choosing, fully patched to 1.1.641.  I was able to buy the game on sale for $7.99

$7.99!!!

I got my copy for 3,49€ in last years summer sale. It was literally so cheap, I just bought it as a backup. Odd how the usual price is so high for such an old game on the digital releases? £4.99 was the price of the re-released disc version when SC 2013 was announced in the UK. And about what an old game should be worth. That's one thing that sucks about digital, it's a rip off unless you get a good sale.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Value is in the eye of the purchaser.  I paid the full retail price for my digital version because my disk version was damaged beyond repair and I needed to do a reinstall.  Whether the age of this game is relevant or not is rather moot, don't you think?  We seem to be getting a trickle of new players at a steady rate.  I can't guess why, but I suspect that after playing some of the 'modern' follow-ons, the reputation SC4D tempts people to give it a whirl.

A quick look at the STEX or LEX should be pretty convincing as a sales tool.  And then there is the Omnibus.

[rsc204 21,868]

I disagree. I grew up with very little, the proliferation of reduced price older content was what allowed me to buy and play games. Were it not for that, I'd not be here talking to you, I wouldn't have seriously been able to get into gaming as a hobby.

Why is it when disks were sold in shops, everything older than 6 months was at least half price? And usually around £10, even for good stuff within 2 years of release? Ironically around the same point the hardware made them playable too usually. Honestly, I've a ton of games, most of which cost £5-£10 tops, many of which, many years later are now on sale for 4x or more of that price digitally? Sans the costs of packaging, distribution and running the shop, why are digital releases so much more expensive? Answer = Rip Off.

Of course, if everyone pays the price, presumably that's the "free" market at work!

 

[CorinaMarie 29,922]

A little allegorical story, if I may.

Let's say in my little SimWorld I own a small mom and pop sandwich shop. (Actually, I'm neither a mom nor a pop, but I digress.) Anyhow, let's call my establishment Cori's Renowned Animal Product Burgers. I sell my sandwiches for a buck each. Being in SimWorld, my sales happen to be exactly 1000 units per day. $1000 gross income. Now, i tain't veri smarts and so's i goes to skewl and get edgykated. With my MBA in hand and a new appreciation for the corporate mindset, I realize I can increase my profits considerably by simply changing the price. My sandwiches are now 2 bucks each. I'm going to double my income! The first day of business with the revised price scheme I do gross $1500. But, by the end of the week I'm only selling 500 burgers a day. Well, phooey. I'm back to the same income I had. (But, with less work involved.)

I dust off the 300 dpi laser copy of my MBA and see it's still valid. I change my prices to 4 bucks per. (Gotta get that income up.) ... Something's wrong. My income actually went down. Well, *$%^ it. I'll sell them for $1000 each. Long story short, I only sell one per day now, but goodness I certainly don't have to work nearly as hard as I used to.

I feel the bottom line is the games are the price they are because they can be. They don't particularly care how many they sell. Each one now-a-days is nearly all profit anyhow.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Well, if you look at SC4D, first a purchased the original SimCity 4 disks at full price.  Then the Rush Hour upgrade.  Then I found Simtropolis, and the STEX.  After a while I ponied up the fee and got the ST disks, which saved a ton of download time, but my Internet service is a fixed price contract, so it was only a matter of convenience since there is no data cap.

When I purchased the digital game at full price I was between a rock and a hard place.  If I wanted to continue to play at all, I needed to replace my disks and the $30 or so it cost was not a barrier as it is to younger people.  Remember, by this time I was retired on pension, so something less than $50 for a game for myself is not a big deal.  But this is my personal situation and many players are not able to just cough up cash like that.  I'm not rich, by the way.  My income is just over $20K per annum (filed my IT today).  I live below the "poverty line", on my own.  This would probably not be possible if it were not for the Canada Health Act that picks up most of my medical expenses.

So, for EA, the residual income from SC4D is a nice little trickle from the old cash cow, and as long as the program sells, they will continue to make it available with as little effort as possible.  I have a feeling that the Origin operation would not exist if it were not for the fiasco of SC2013, since it was really created to market it and run the servers.  Even big outfits like EA make mistakes, especially if they pay too much attention to their marketing departments.  Meanwhile, SC4D sales keeps pumping in the nickels.

[rsc204 21,868]

Well I've had better times than others, who hasn't.

I'm not saying you had to be rich to buy games, but they certainly weren't within the realms of my £10 a week paper round money. I barely scrapped enough together to get my fist computer back then.

But I know a number of people were in a similar situation, despite not being so old, no one around me had expensive gadgets and all they wanted. I don't think a 13 year old game is worth the same as a new one. I've rarely, no more than a handful of times, paid full price for one. I guess I just have a different concept of value.

[CorinaMarie 29,922]

Oh, goodie! Going off topic to talk about our backgrounds. <Cori casts a level 1 mod anti-vision spell> (So we don't get in trouble.)

My dad is a tinkerer. Like take anything apart, fix it, and reassemble.  Ergo, I'm a Tinkerer Too.

So, trying to picture my earliest memories, it seems I could prolly use a screwdriver before a spoon.

The short version is dad would bring home old PC and XT comps that companies were tossing out. They'd been in some storage room for years and years (and years). Enough times he'd get there whilst they were tossing them in a dumpster. Some worked fine and some had problems. Dad showed me how to diagnose the baby's illness, perform surgery, and rob the appropriate part from one of the other dozen sick patients. (Have you ever seen a computer monitor with a large, baby bonnet? Or open, gutted cases used as a doll house?) Anyhow, as I grew up this progressed to 286's, 3 & 486's and so forth. Along the way, he'd get me games that were comp-runable on specific ones. Like ran good. One of the very first I remember was called Bouncing Babies. Oh, Yikes! It got a wee bit crazy after like 50ish.

With help I learned BasicA, Dos Batch Files (which, i believe are now called Scripts), QuickBasic 4.0 and some 4.5, Cobol, Clarion, and enough assembler to be really, really dangerous (i borked a floppy drive by running the heads past the edge). When I was still quite little, but older, he'd bring home comps (having told the owner he'd get it fixed for no charge) and I'd repair them. It was always our little secret until I got into double digit age.

<level 1 spell fading>

Well, guys. Cya. Gotta run.

<level 1 spell exhausted>

 

Quote

I don't think a 13 year old game is worth the same as a new one.

I feel it's gonna be a value ratio thing to each. Like: Value (to the individual peep) = effort to obtain amount of money divided by the cost of item. And each person has their own acceptable threshold for the variables and Value resultant.

[Sabretooth78 808]

Got my digital copy from Amazon (about 3 years ago); either paid $15 or $20 for it.  If I had been a little more vigilant I probably could have found it somewhere else for a little less, but i was just getting back into the game on a bit of an impulse purchase nor was I aware of these other sites.  For me it was really just the value of not requiring a CD-in situation now owning a laptop - when I had my tower PC I could just leave it in one of the two optical drives and it wasn't any bother.  $20 to enable me to continue spending countless hours vs. that I could have p*ssed that money away on liquor and had nothing to show for it the next day.  You try the math - I get a divide by zero error.

I've since bought from GOG as well and would assume there's is the same - what I got from Amazon was an essentially unadulterated disc image.  No DRM or other foolishness attached so far as I can tell.  The GOG games I bought (RollerCoaster Tycoon series) are packaged into stand-alone installers and will install to its own "proprietary" C:\GOG Games\... folder and there are some custom icons for the desktop shortcuts but that seems to be the extent of the changes vs. the original CD.  Not sure if that applies to SC4 but it's not a big deal.  (I've also re-bought Civ IV complete on Amazon - a steal at $7 - but you have to be careful as they sell both DRM-free and DRM (Steam) digital copies.)

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Well, I purchase Banished from GOG, and they did set up that structure, but there is no DRM nonsense.  I've since picked up the updates directly from the SRS site, no problems.  Getting back to our muttons, there really is only one digital version (1,1,641).  The rest is window dressing and DRM fol-de-rol.  If you start the game from the *.exe as far as I am aware you get the default set up in your Documents folder no matter who you got it from.

The idea of these DRM folks wanting you to sign on to a stand alone game must be strictly statistical.  How often anyone plays a game is really none of their business.

[CorinaMarie 29,922]

1 hour ago, A Nonny Moose said:

...

The idea of these DRM folks wanting you to sign on to a stand alone game must be strictly statistical.  How often anyone plays a game is really none of their business.

I personally wouldn't care about them knowing how often I play. If such market research would be utilized to determine what peeps actually like, they could then design future games for our particular niche. The part which I refuse to do is be required to have an internet connection to my game computer. While I do have some knowledge about intrusions and such, I'm well aware there are some evil peeps who have more knowledge. I feel the odds of someone getting into my system are considerably less if there isn't a physical cable available for digital traffic.

[mrsmartman 200]

How many gaming platforms do you have? I have Steam, Uplay, Origin and GOG. All platforms are not compatible with each other.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Depends on what you mean by 'platform'.  A software system such as those mentioned can coexist with others, but it is also possible to have separate machines, some not connected to any part of the Internet nor to a WiFi system of any kind.

I have exactly one cable hookup for broadband, unlimited service.  I run Ubuntu (Linux), with a belt (virus scanner) and suspenders (fire wall) and have yet to detect an intruder.  Linux systems have a kernel module called AppArmor which prevents the launch of any program that has been altered since installation.  Trojans just don't work on Linux. 

For those running Linux servers there is a kernel variation called SELINUX which is a secure system with ACLs and CACLs which cause each access to be checked in either hardware or software depending on what you have.  This is really designed for use by outfits such as DOD that may want multiple security levels on the same machine or network.  This option requires as much administration as Multics or any other secure O/S.  Console operators usually do not have enough clearance to do anything much, and only the security officer knows who can do what to which and to whom.

[InvisiChem 121]

Just made the switch and tried GOG version. Version 1.1.641.0, same as all digital versions. Good thing. Structure is modifiable to work with BAT install. I think I like this version a bit better than steam. lol.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

4 hours ago, InvisiChem said:

Just made the switch and tried GOG version. Version 1.1.641.0, same as all digital versions. Good thing. Structure is modifiable to work with BAT install. I think I like this version a bit better than steam. lol.

The thing about Steam and Origin is that they've got it in their heads that they have to pee in the soup to make it taste better.  They also want to have control.  Even worse, Origin has outright denied that the BAT is an EA product (it was built by Maxis Studio after the take over).  All they care about is the money, and don't give a rat's patootie about the end user and the after market stuff.

The very idea that Microsoft propounds in its (earlier) EULA is that they own your machine by virtue of licensing you to use their garbage.  This has rubbed off on the DRM vendors.  I've been in this game a long time, and when we sold a computer in the days before unbundling the price included a permanent license for all available software written by our company and perpetual support.  Then some turkey decided that software was costing more than the hardware so they unbundled, and also went so far as to unbundle the hardware components so you practically had to specify the build for your new machine, and then figure out what software you needed and purchase that too.

[InvisiChem 121]

Microsoft and the hardware vendors have gone a step farther in fact. UEFI is the new standard for BIOS technology. Having this running makes a simple basic install of LinuxMint fail. I did get it installed pretty easily, but I have a knowledge of how the operating system works and how to install it. Comes from my old favorite being Peanut linux back in the day. lol.

Now, everytime Windows 10 updates, it automatically turns drive encryption back on and disables the VT settings in the UEFI. I notice only because I go to run a hackintosh yosemite in a VM for testing, wont run. I have to go re-enable the settings I want to run it each time. Thank you Microsoft. 

The reason I use Microsoft as the example is they have been the most well known longest offender of this ideal than any. Just to control cloud virtualization technology, MS will now allow you to Install Linux from cloud services for free, as long as it is their cloud service you are paying for. Strangely enough, doesn't sound free to me - in either sense of the word (i.e. free of cost or free of speech which the linux and open source community is based on).

[CorinaMarie 29,922]

Whoa! Some going over my head. My mental image has no details. It's simply: MS = Bad. 

I do deliberately run my entire networked comps without outside contact. They chat with each other very nicely.

Just to recap what I think I learned: The digital versions will all be 1.1.641.0. In hindsight I could have phrased my question better, tho I feel I have the answer. I really wanted to know which vendor sells the friendliest digital version. If I didn't lose track the options are:

1. Steam
2. Origin
3. GamersGate (This = Gog? yes?)
4. Amazon

And the verdict is the Gog is the preferred but Zon is ok too. :unsure:

 

Edit: I just had an idea so we can go off topic again.

Here's something I learned early in life. (I'm doing this from memory and it might be garbled.) The test here is to see if anyone recognizes it using only mental retrieval. This is what it looked like prior to pressing the <enter> key:

-g=c800:5

(Or depending on the maker, -g=c800:6 or the other I don't really remember, but was prolly also in the c800 paragraph.)

I do suspect Mr. Moose will know.

  Edited April 1, 2016 by CorinaMarie  
Add cryptic question.

[rsc204 21,868]

Any of the digital editions are fine for most users. If you want to install the tools for making models, avoid Origin, probably Steam too. Since their new DRM will mess with the .exe causing the installer to fail to recognise SC4 as genuine.

To my knowledge GoG = Good Old Games, did not mess with the .exe in any way. In fact, they are the only vendor to add the -CPUCount:1 to the target for you. Showing they listen and respond to user feedback. I.e., they understand not all old games work well on modern PCs, and do their best to make it as painless as possible.

As for MS being evil, they are just a corporation. You want to see true evil in the business world? I'd say MS are trying to catch up with Apple, Amazon, Google and Facebook personally. Sad to see the direction they've taken with Windows 10, but actually, Windows 10, along with it's appstore's adoption, will either make or break MS. So they've coped the business practises of all those others mentioned in an attempt to win us over. I mean, it's not like the shady business practices of the Internet are causing issues for their competitors?

I think it's a shame, a lost opportunity to be the one remaining company not trying to sift every byte of your data like you owe them something. But we as consumers dictate what MS can and can't do, too few people care enough to make a stand (I.e. not installing Win10), especially when there's a giveaway included to sweeten the deal!

[InvisiChem 121]

Gamersgate is a different vendor, but like GOG they do not DRM the copy of SC4. 

 

G=c800:5   To not spoil it, I'll PM you.

[Bombardiere 591]

My vote is GOG.

https://www.gog.com/

However, I haven't hear problems with Steam version either. As far as I know, Steam has not altered the .exe on old games. DRM goes with the launcher. I have bought few old games from steam sales. I bought a Cities in Motion full bundle and I am able to run it just copying the files into a new folder. No need for Steam launcher and interenet connection. (Shhhh don't tell anyone, this might technically be a breach of the licence. ) When the Steam shop page informs that there is "a third party DRM" then it means the program has an intergated DRM which can't be removed. But usually it has made by the game maker although as far as I know it is fixed to the vendor, Steam.

(Off topic rant. There is a thing with GOG that I don't like. When I got my credit card bill it says Nicosia Cyprus. Well, Cyprus is one of those European tax havens and I don't like companies that are trying to get away from taxes by setting offshore post office box companies. I steadyfast avoid the Specsavers for that same reason. I don't think it is fare for a small high street optician to compete with multination off shore company (Specsavers in Jersey, The Channel Islands), which can lower its prices because it is not paying same level taxes than the local shop. And I want quality and I support my local shop because I know where the lenses are coming from, instead of that my spectacle would have been fitted in anonymous factory in Thailand. (Darn that was a strange rant. )

 

 

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

I have to admit that I haven't kept up with the software rat race since I switched to Linux in 2007.  No idea about the meaning of your cute little equation. 

I did, however, look into UEFI.  Since I buy my system hardware naked (no preinstalled O/S) I don't have the problems outlined by @InvisiChem.  The Ubuntu installer takes a UEFI chip set in stride.  My current machine uses BIOS.  As far as I can determine UEFI originated at Intel and has become an industry standard replacing BIOS with legacy support.  The linked article (on Wiki) pretty much gives all the gory details.

[InvisiChem 121]

A very well written article really. The authors even stated, 

Quote

Intel developed the original Extensible Firmware Interface (EFI) specification. Some of the EFI's practices and data formats mirror those fromMicrosoft Windows.^[5][6] In 2005, UEFI deprecated EFI 1.10 (the final release of EFI). The Unified EFI Forum is the industry body that manages the UEFI specification.

UEFI really does have some great uses and benefits, but I really miss how simple the old BIOS was. I could configure it however I wish, then it would stay that way. Too much OS Integration with it now.

The equation is an address allocation to DEBUG.COM in DOS (3.1 I believe and up) to begin a Low Level format of XT and AT controller card compatible HDD's, usually WD and Seagate. 

Back to topic though, I vote GOG as well. Most of the command line parameters were already configured on initial install, the Config file was already modified correctly to handle my Intel/Nvidia GPU properly. BAT reinstalled no problem without any workarounds. I also did notice an improvement in response by not having to run through a client like when I used Steam.

[CorinaMarie 29,922]

7 hours ago, InvisiChem said:

...

The equation is an address allocation to DEBUG.COM in DOS (3.1 I believe and up) to begin a Low Level format of XT and AT controller card compatible HDD's, usually WD and Seagate. 

...

Yes, you got it precisely right in your PM and here with the teeny, tiny exception that you used the Debug.Com software program to access that physical part of the ROM. As I recall, the LL format program was physically on the hard disk controller card chip. With no hard drive installed, the lower 640k of memory could be increased by a significant amount. Like nearly all of the first 768k could be assigned to conventional memory. While I did play around with that, it wasn't ever required to run standard programs. It was nice to have more memory resident tools, however. The use of extended and expanded memory swapping came next. I do forget which was first and why they were different. (I haven't consciously retained most of the things I learned in my single digit years.)

 

Edit: Having re-read both our posts, I feel you prolly meant exactly what I was suggesting was incorrect. My apology.

  Edited April 3, 2016 by CorinaMarie  
Add new insight I have.

[InvisiChem 121]

I haven't really retained too much myself. Ask me to program in Assembler now, I'll probably fail pretty bad lol. Been far too long with high level languages. I am confident with your retained knowledge though. especially if your birthdate on your profile is correct. That puts me 13 years your senior. Really awesome you know the classic systems. I do remember my first PC was a whopping 4 Mhz IBM system. State of the art with its 3.5" floppy drive. So much fun playing with QuickBASIC a little later. Even had a text based RPG on Floppy I played a lot. Can't remember its name now. Great moments. Well before the internet. 

As for the incorrect part, only the GOG and Gamersgate.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Programming experience is invaluable when you are dealing with this game.  It was written in an era when most gamers were programmers.  My very first computer language was machine language.  You wrote out the program on coding sheets, had it desk checked by a colleague, then entered it into the machine through the console.  There wasn't even an assembler.  We considered that having a segment of paper tape that could be read in behind your program to punch it out to be a great boon.  In those days it was all punched paper tape.  When we got our machine that had an assembler, a macro assembler even, we considered we had been given a great gift.

These days most "programmers" wouldn't know an assembly listing if it jumped up and hit them.  Over the years we've made it go away.  The nearest thing to assembler most people see these days is C.

[InvisiChem 121]

Quote

The nearest thing to assembler most people see these days is C.

Very true. I was introduced to Pascal and C before assembler. I basically learned assembler out of curiosity. I still could not build the Binary tapes like you guys did back in the day (massive respect for this). Too spoiled by High Level languages anymore to even try now. C# is my chosen language personally. I'll go to C++ or Java when necessary for certain things, like Mac programs or programs not dependent on a GUI. 

Assembler does have a serious benefit over High Level languages. It can be optimized and you won't lose that optimization through the compiler. Bad part, registers can be very different between architectures, so not as easy to port to various processors. lol. Other parts as well, but hey, I like to keep things simple. High level languages, such as C or C# are easy to port, but less efficient. A good trade off in my opinion. 

I do sometimes wish I could have experienced the day of literal Binary programming. You gain a whole new understanding of the machine. For most programmers now, we see DWORD, Int32, Int64, etc. but fail to remember it's just a series of transistors being turned on and off in a specific fashion.

[CorinaMarie 29,922]

18 hours ago, InvisiChem said:

Even had a text based RPG on Floppy I played a lot. Can't remember its name now. Great moments.

Woot! I know precisely the game type. I played Planetfall and Zork 1 as texted based games. :thumbsup:

At the time I wasn't much aware that the comps dad and I were playing with were severely outdated. Everything was all new and wonderful to me. As I grew up, when we could have more sophisticated conversations, he revealed the plan he'd followed. Basically it was give me stuff to play with and see which I'd take to the most then encourage that with help and slow expansion. He said something like: If you'd only played with dolls then that would've been your expression of yourself. Since you like the techy stuff too, then I made sure you'd get the overview of what went before in the correct sequence.

My very first programming eureka! moment that I remember vividly was a BasicA game in which one flew a rocket ship trying to land on a small, level sliver of the ground. Since I'd typed in the code verbatim, I realized I could alter it too. The line which read: Fuel = Fuel - 1 was easily changed to Fuel = Fuel + 1 and the game became insanely easier.