Viaduct Rail Help

[arsenal4me 9]

I'm having problems with viaduct rail. I had three cities (2 medium residential with a small industrial between them) connected through good old-fashioned, traditional heavy rail with traditional stations (using NAM). As my region began to prosper and my sims reaped the benefits, they also suffered the new congestion issues. My heavy rail was at 300% congestion. At its peak, I believe over 29,000 sims were using it (could have been more). So I decided to upgrade my transit system. First I replaced my old ground heavy rail with viaduct rail. I used the Victorian-style stations and it worked great, no connectivity issues or anything. After spending four hours building the viaduct network, I still had heavy congestion, so I decided to alleviate the headaches of my sims and replaced the viaduct rail with a monorail system. Well would you believe they refused to use it? I gave them ample parking, stations, transit to the stations and everything, but no.

I realized the reason for this is probably because the rail network I replaced with a monorail connects my two residential cities to my dirty/manufacturing industrial city, so it's used mostly by my low-wealth sims. No problem, I thought, I'll just go back to rail, add some bus and subway stations, and see how things pan out.

Now here's where I'm confused. I plopped my viaduct system exactly the same way as I had before. I connected my Victorian stations exactly how I connected them before when they worked. Everything was a carbon copy. I finished the network, waited a few months, and saw no one is using the system. I ran a U-Drive-It train through the stations to make sure they're all connected, and the train made it though fine, so I have no clue what the issue is. I have attached screenshots of how I built the stations, along with a traffic map. Can someone tell me what the problem is? Are the viaduct stations somehow not connected to the rail? The viaduct rail in my industrial city is connected to the ground rail networks of my neighboring cities through transition ramps which lead to normal ground neighbor connections.

TL;DR Got my Victorian viaduct stations to work before, can't get them to work now. Pics included.

https://imgur.com/a/zXtR8

 

Here is how I set up my viaduct network. I build the network first, then leave two blank spots for the Victorian Station.

 

Then I plop the Victorian station in and run rail through it to make sure it's transit-enabled.

 

The traffic map shows gaps in the network where the stations are, but I don't remember if it showed them when the network worked too.

 

This shows all three Victorian viaduct stations in my city, connected through a straight line which goes down to my neighboring residential cities on both sides. Before, each station was past 120% capacity, with over 44,000 commuters using their rail, bus, and subway capabilities. Now they're at zero.

 

Update: To ensure this wasn't a transit-wide glitch, I went back and replace my viaduct rail with ground heavy rail and ran the game for a few months in each city. Sure enough my sims hopped right on it, usage went immediately to past 100%, and the abandoned residential buildings came back to occupied.

  Edited July 6, 2015 by arsenal4me  

[rsc204 21,866]

Have you let the game run for a while to work out the changes? Additionally you may need to enter the connecting cities to bring traffic through the neighbour connections once more.

FYI: Monorail is not something poor sims can't afford to ride, in essence transport is free for sims. Monorail really works best when the distance between stations is quite large, it's a high-speed rail line after all, not a local stopping service.

[matias93 7,535]

How about using generic 15m elevated stations, like the BriPizza and Norikae ones? I know that those are radically different to the style the area have, but the way they work allow for a much more fail-proof operation (the station itself is located aside the viaduct, so it doesn't obstruct the traffic, nor create bottlenecks).

[arsenal4me 9]

Have you let the game run for a while to work out the changes? Additionally you may need to enter the connecting cities to bring traffic through the neighbour connections once more.

FYI: Monorail is not something poor sims can't afford to ride, in essence transport is free for sims. Monorail really works best when the distance between stations is quite large, it's a high-speed rail line after all, not a local stopping service.

I ran the game for about six months in all the connected cities to no avail. Didn't know that about monorail though. I appreciate the heads up. Any idea what the problem is?

How about using generic 15m elevated stations, like the BriPizza and Norikae ones? I know that those are radically different to the style the area have, but the way they work allow for a much more fail-proof operation (the station itself is located aside the viaduct, so it doesn't obstruct the traffic, nor create bottlenecks).

I think that is what I'm going to have to do. I want to use the Victorian station because it matches the style, but style doesn't matter if the station won't work. Thanks for the help!

[rsc204 21,866]

The best way to check would be with the draw paths cheat enabled, that way you can make sure the paths are correct. Looking at your screenshots the gap of two tiles to insert the station is as it should be for this station, I've used it plenty of times and it should definitely work. For this you'll need to have Buggi's Extra Cheats.dll installed, then press CTRL+X in-game to bring up a menu, type drawpaths and press enter to show the in-game pathing. The problem is that the station might obscure your view.

I wonder though, where have all the commuters using the rail service gone, are they still coming into this city or finding jobs? If so, it might be they've simply found a quicker route to work. I still think you should run any rail connected cities for a few months and save them before returning to see if that doesn't do the trick. If they were commuting by rail from a different city into this one and the connection was cut off, that may be required to reset the neighbour connection to allow them through again. Often before I've gone crazy looking for a fault with my rail system when the sims simply decided there were better ways to get around.

[arsenal4me 9]

The best way to check would be with the draw paths cheat enabled, that way you can make sure the paths are correct. Looking at your screenshots the gap of two tiles to insert the station is as it should be for this station, I've used it plenty of times and it should definitely work. For this you'll need to have Buggi's Extra Cheats.dll installed, then press CTRL+X in-game to bring up a menu, type drawpaths and press enter to show the in-game pathing. The problem is that the station might obscure your view.

I wonder though, where have all the commuters using the rail service gone, are they still coming into this city or finding jobs? If so, it might be they've simply found a quicker route to work. I still think you should run any rail connected cities for a few months and save them before returning to see if that doesn't do the trick. If they were commuting by rail from a different city into this one and the connection was cut off, that may be required to reset the neighbour connection to allow them through again. Often before I've gone crazy looking for a fault with my rail system when the sims simply decided there were better ways to get around.

Good idea on running the connected cities. I just ran one for six months, and when I route queried the residents, some said they were still using the train, but the rail stations and tiles indicated zero usage. After another few months, sims started abandoning their homes. Eventually the stations in one of my residential cities worked, but only for inter-city transit. The industrial stations still got no use. Thanks for the help. I'll try the draw paths cheat and report back.

 

Update: I ran the pathfinder cheat and the arrows ran through my stations fine. I can't think of any other reason for the problem at this point except it's a glitch with NAM. I guess I'll just be going back to standard rail. Thanks for your help.

  Edited July 6, 2015 by arsenal4me  
Update

[matias93 7,535]

Non related to the troubleshooting, I think you have an alternative to the viaduct rail to use heavy rail in your cities (without interrupting the superficial road traffic): to make a 15m deep trench and draw heavy rail down, using sunken stations to interchange commuters (look at the STEX and LEX for it). The only downside to this is that it will use 3 tiles of width along the line, and freight stations will have to be built in widened trenches (what, I think, is irrelevant, since you have seaports in front of the rail line)

[arsenal4me 9]

Non related to the troubleshooting, I think you have an alternative to the viaduct rail to use heavy rail in your cities (without interrupting the superficial road traffic): to make a 15m deep trench and draw heavy rail down, using sunken stations to interchange commuters (look at the STEX and LEX for it). The only downside to this is that it will use 3 tiles of width along the line, and freight stations will have to be built in widened trenches (what, I think, is irrelevant, since you have seaports in front of the rail line)

I'll look into that, because at this point nothing I do with the viaduct stations is helping. Thanks again.

[rsc204 21,866]

Before going any further you should be sure of the problem, otherwise you may be fixing something that isn't broke. Usually this only serves to take longer to fix, since whatever the actual problem is will likely remain.

I know the problems with DrawPaths for this type of station is that the paths get obscured from view by the station. However, if you switch to subway mode (Shift + T) with DrawPaths enabled, you get this:

I've put the red rectangle around the area that is roughly the station, you need to check if the pink-ish arrows all line up in the same direction and go completely through the station. If you plop the station and check before clicking with the rail tool, you can see how the rail tool applies the paths for the station. If you find that the paths are there and correct, whatever is wrong is not the actual rail network or stations I suspect.

[mrsmartman 200]

You need to plop sort of transit overhang piece for rail station at the two sides of the two effective station tiles and activate the station and the transit piece. Afterwards, you should see trains going through the station seamlessly.

[rsc204 21,866]

It's not actually necessary anymore with this particular station (assuming you are using a new version of the NAM). That piece remains for compatibility, non-updated stations which will not plop on the adjacent tiles to the viaduct puzzle pieces may exist.

Nope, I'm wrong, see below update it would appear they are required.

  Edited July 6, 2015 by rsc204  

[arsenal4me 9]

Before going any further you should be sure of the problem, otherwise you may be fixing something that isn't broke. Usually this only serves to take longer to fix, since whatever the actual problem is will likely remain.

I know the problems with DrawPaths for this type of station is that the paths get obscured from view by the station. However, if you switch to subway mode (Shift + T) with DrawPaths enabled, you get this:

I've put the red rectangle around the area that is roughly the station, you need to check if the pink-ish arrows all line up in the same direction and go completely through the station. If you plop the station and check before clicking with the rail tool, you can see how the rail tool applies the paths for the station. If you find that the paths are there and correct, whatever is wrong is not the actual rail network or stations I suspect.

Thank you for taking the time to demonstrate this, I was trying to find out how to get past the buildings blocking the view. Here is a screenshot of what I found:

The white box marks where my station is. The arrows seem to be lined up correctly, right? Just to be sure, I ran the game for several months in all connected cities, but all I got was abandonment from my stubborn sims. I'm at a loss for solutions.

[arsenal4me 9]

Updated the topic to show that usage almost immediately returned 100% upon switching back to ground rail 

[rsc204 21,866]

The viaduct rail is just a raised version of the regular rail, but if regular rail works it does indicate the problem must be somewhere within the viaduct section. With drawpaths on, does the entire length of the viaduct have the same paths (they are correct in the picture)? Where does the Viaduct transition to ground rail in the same city, or does the viaduct cross a neighbour connection somewhere? If it does try deleting the connection/(s) and re-building them (assuming you know to place viaduct rail pieces over the existing rail to make the neighbour connection work).

Just to be sure, which version of SC4 and the NAM do you have installed? SC4 should be at least at build 638 (with the EP1 patch) - typically digital copies come pre-patched). NAM should be NAM 32, problems may exist with older versions, the station modding would have been refreshed reasonably recently.

[arsenal4me 9]

The viaduct rail is just a raised version of the regular rail, but if regular rail works it does indicate the problem must be somewhere within the viaduct section. With drawpaths on, does the entire length of the viaduct have the same paths (they are correct in the picture)? Where does the Viaduct transition to ground rail in the same city, or does the viaduct cross a neighbour connection somewhere? If it does try deleting the connection/(s) and re-building them (assuming you know to place viaduct rail pieces over the existing rail to make the neighbour connection work).

Just to be sure, which version of SC4 and the NAM do you have installed? SC4 should be at least at build 638 (with the EP1 patch) - typically digital copies come pre-patched). NAM should be NAM 32, problems may exist with older versions, the station modding would have been refreshed reasonably recently.

With regard to the neighbor connection, I originally had the viaduct rail connected with the viaduct piece over the ground rail connection. This is when I first had the viaduct network working properly. I tried this same layout again and it didn't work, so at each city edge I transitioned the viaduct to ground and used standard ground connections to see if it would make a difference. That didn't help either. I'm running version 1.1.640 with the EP1 patch and NAM 32.

As you pointed out, viaduct rail is just raised regular rail, so there's no reason Sims shouldn't be using it. This leads me to believe it has to be a station issue. Maybe I should download some other viaduct rail stations and see if those work. What do you think?

[rsc204 21,866]

You need to plop sort of transit overhang piece for rail station at the two sides of the two effective station tiles and activate the station and the transit piece. Afterwards, you should see trains going through the station seamlessly.

Well it would appear this is the solution, sorry if I've drawn this out more than necessary...

The thing is I use this station a bit, so I knew for sure it works - for example the picture I showed was from a year-old city with the station operating fine in it during that time, I never normally use the Other Side pieces either, but I guess I've been doing it wrong.

I've been running some tests tonight to check it's operation and whilst it looks like it will work without the Viaduct Rail (Other Side) pieces, it seems that in actual fact it does not. From what I can tell at most one side of the station will operate correctly - I had a similar setup to you with 3 stations on one line, at one end were a bunch of farms with no other access except a very long drive.

No matter what I did, whilst some parts of the connections worked correctly, until I re-plopped the stations with the Viaduct Rail (Other Side) pieces it wouldn't work correctly. As soon as these were in place and the station and additionally OtherSide pieces were TE'd (for the other side, just click each once with the rail tool. With this setup in place, all of a sudden the rail line was functioning correctly. See page 46 of the NAM Transit Stations Manual for more info.

[arsenal4me 9]

You need to plop sort of transit overhang piece for rail station at the two sides of the two effective station tiles and activate the station and the transit piece. Afterwards, you should see trains going through the station seamlessly.

Well it would appear this is the solution, sorry if I've drawn this out more than necessary...

The thing is I use this station a bit, so I knew for sure it works - for example the picture I showed was from a year-old city with the station operating fine in it during that time, I never normally use the Other Side pieces either, but I guess I've been doing it wrong.

I've been running some tests tonight to check it's operation and whilst it looks like it will work without the Viaduct Rail (Other Side) pieces, it seems that in actual fact it does not. From what I can tell at most one side of the station will operate correctly - I had a similar setup to you with 3 stations on one line, at one end were a bunch of farms with no other access except a very long drive.

No matter what I did, whilst some parts of the connections worked correctly, until I re-plopped the stations with the Viaduct Rail (Other Side) pieces it wouldn't work correctly. As soon as these were in place and the station and additionally OtherSide pieces were TE'd (for the other side, just click each once with the rail tool. With this setup in place, all of a sudden the rail line was functioning correctly. See page 46 of the NAM Transit Stations Manual for more info.

Wow, completely missed mrsmartman's post. I'll do that and report back with the news.

You need to plop sort of transit overhang piece for rail station at the two sides of the two effective station tiles and activate the station and the transit piece. Afterwards, you should see trains going through the station seamlessly.

This, along with rsc204's explanation, answers everything. The reason my sims would only commute within my cities is because only one side of the station works without the "other side" piece. Thank you both very much.

[rsc204 21,866]

It was bugging me why I had thought they worked before, so I've been revisiting the other sites where I'd used them and I think I've figured out why they can "appear" to work. In every case the sims would travel by train to the station, but then change to either bus or subway traffic. Sometimes this would happen from both directions, but no rail traffic was passing through the stations. I've since updated three or four other lines, by helping you I've fixed some problems with my own rail network I was otherwise oblivious of.

[arsenal4me 9]

It was bugging me why I had thought they worked before, so I've been revisiting the other sites where I'd used them and I think I've figured out why they can "appear" to work. In every case the sims would travel by train to the station, but then change to either bus or subway traffic. Sometimes this would happen from both directions, but no rail traffic was passing through the stations. I've since updated three or four other lines, by helping you I've fixed some problems with my own rail network I was otherwise oblivious of.

Glad I could also be of assistance. I plopped the "other side" lots and got my Victorian stations back up to full usage. I previously thought I hadn't needed them because only the Overhanging Modern station states them as a necessity in its description, and they had seemed to work. Thank you very much.

  Edited July 7, 2015 by arsenal4me