Simcity - What couldve been

[Aprince 8]

Im late to the party - because of online only play, but now there is offline and here I am. Ive been playing SC since the days of my Apple II (SC 1-4, blah societies and now this garbage) and all i have to say is this - what couldve been....

 

This games single player is broken, im not sure if its any different online. The lack of agriculture and military, plus the limiting map size, great works, zoning limitation, traffic system, regional deals, police/fire/health...etc etc.. and glassbox are retarded... and the bugs... I guess im not saying anything new here. Why cant anyone get a city builder right. 4 was going that way and five f'ed that direction for sure.

 

There are some good things about 5... Such as the graphics and the ability to upgrade buildings and build specialization HQs. However, specialization is a boring chore that is fairly easy. Technically, I figured out i didnt even have to mine anything to advance specializations. All it took was a trade HQ/port and such is such and 100s of millions later, if you know what im referring to. The game is so slow, I actually leave it running while i do other things around the house. I just save from time to time, just incase some major f up happens while im off watching TV, playing games on a console etc etc etc.

 

Transportation is a joke.

 

First off, how come I dont make money off of it? Secondly, its fairly limiting in which how i can use the tools that i do have. Now compound the limited map sizes, with the limited tools available, the one in town feeder road and everything becomes a clusterfuhk.

 

Long gone are subways and tolls, now enter the regional and shuttle buses of death. I had to rid my region of regional buses because they made the roads more unbearable to travel if you can imagine that. I even had to cut back on my shuttle buses to almost no more than 9 buses per city. I have zero school buses going, though there are stops. I learned I only need uni's/colleges in town.

 

Oh speaking of death, the yellow cabs of doom are just as bad, if not worse. I swear in one town, there is one yellow taxi per individual in that town. nothing moves. I constantly bulldoze hotels to try and help this problem, but It never completely stops. I think it has something to do with the gambling HQ in town.

 

Regional Deals dont work right, especially if it involves a vehicle. I can get by with water, sewage, power deals, but thats about it. And thats after loading all the cities that share these resources if anything changes - If i dont there will be issues. I basically use one city for power (nuclear)/water/sewage.. one city as my main uni campus to do all the research.. but thats about that in the region. Other than that i build each city to be self sufficient. I cant even rely on workers traveling.

 

Blah blah blah..

 

I have one city that cant use depots. All the trucks will leave selling alloy and plastic, but, they never return. So, my recycling plant gets stuffed in that city and I have to destroy my depot and rebuild it so i can unload my recycling for awhile. An endless cycle of wtf.

 

One crime per day in one town is to much for a business next to a police HQ to handle.

 

Id go on and on, but im sure no one wants to read a book about the things that already have been said countless times before.

 

At the end of the day i had to learn how to manage around the broken game. Such as trying to feed traffic in directions and towards specific zones, making sure stadiums are near the feeder road entrance, building each city as its own, rarely relying on other for anything... etc etc etc,,, but its to the point its no longer fun having to play this way.

 

anyway.. maybe someone has mod suggestions that would make this playable.

  Edited October 11, 2014 by CaptCity  
Language

[Ocram's Razr 964]

There have been some mods that expand the options for mass transit. The high speed rail mod and the subway mod both require Cities of Tomorrow, which can be purchased on the cheap for very low cost during certain sales (such as the upcoming memorial day sale).

I really think that regions should have 2-4x the "minor works" added than they have Great Works already and that a map pack with updated maps should be included in a free or low cost DLC. I have written my suggestion for "minor works" several times here and on the official forum.

I also think that agriculture should have been added in addition to new transit options. There are special ways to lower taxicabs on the streets from hotels and casinos. It requires enough hotels for middle-class and rich tourists and mass transit options (maglev works best though avenues with trams in the middle work as well) between the tourist attractions, casinos and/or hotels and the airport and/or docks/ports/ferry&cruise ship terminals.

--Ocram

[Aprince 8]

There have been some mods that expand the options for mass transit. The high speed rail mod and the subway mod both require Cities of Tomorrow, which can be purchased on the cheap for very low cost during certain sales (such as the upcoming memorial day sale).

I really think that regions should have 2-4x the "minor works" added than they have Great Works already and that a map pack with updated maps should be included in a free or low cost DLC. I have written my suggestion for "minor works" several times here and on the official forum.

I also think that agriculture should have been added in addition to new transit options. There are special ways to lower taxicabs on the streets from hotels and casinos. It requires enough hotels for middle-class and rich tourists and mass transit options (maglev works best though avenues with trams in the middle work as well) between the tourist attractions, casinos and/or hotels and the airport and/or docks/ports/ferry&cruise ship terminals.

--Ocram

 

Thanks for the suggestion, but im going to have to pass on cities of tomorrow. i wont be getting any expansion pack unless its fixes the game - which i doubt theyll do now. However, if the mod community take SC where i want to go in a year or two, ill consider COT then.

 

On SC vanilla the only way i can combat the taxis is to bulldoze hotels.

 

They tried to make the game too easy for the MASSES, and a long term DLC central.. I mean if regional buses had their own bus stops that alone would have gone a long way fixing traffic some. Even making shuttle buses stops a real route system and not just go to the busiest stop etc etc

 

IDK, there are just too many issues to make it more playable for me. NOTE i still put in hundreds of hours, but i doubt i put in years as i did with sc4.

  Edited October 11, 2014 by CaptCity  

[Rufus Honker IV 100]

Your recycling center will not sell the alloy, etc to the global market.  Those trucks aren't leaving, they're staying in their garages - they only ship out the materials to other buildings in the city that require it, like trade depots or processor factories.

 

Build a trade depot with storage lots for the alloy, etc.  Your trucks will ship the stuff there and the trade depot sells it on the global market if you tell it to do so. 

 

Oh, and yep - I've been playing since Simcity 1 myself, on my Tandy Color Computer 3.

 

EDIT: You can't build any depots in the city, you mean?  I don't understand how that can be - I've never had that happen.

[Aprince 8]

Your recycling center will not sell the alloy, etc to the global market.  Those trucks aren't leaving, they're staying in their garages - they only ship out the materials to other buildings in the city that require it, like trade depots or processor factories.

 

Build a trade depot with storage lots for the alloy, etc.  Your trucks will ship the stuff there and the trade depot sells it on the global market if you tell it to do so. 

 

Oh, and yep - I've been playing since Simcity 1 myself, on my Tandy Color Computer 3.

 

EDIT: You can't build any depots in the city, you mean?  I don't understand how that can be - I've never had that happen.

 

No i meant my recycling center backs up and doesnt work because my trade depot trucks leave town and never return. The only thing i can do is bulldoze my depot and rebuild it so the backed up items can fill the depot yet again. I tried turning the depot off and on. destroying the trucks and adding them back. Nothing works. It only happens in one town.

 

I use to have another city supporting it with trash and recycling but the trucks stopped coming. So, i had to service myself in said city.

[Zakumi 29]

I was hoping sim city to be more like cities xl but it wasn't sadly, at least it had curvy roads but map size sucked.

[Xenocity 343]

Simcity 2013 fell victim to market research, consumer feedback from 4, and the disastrous low sales of 4.

Market research told Maxis that people wanted a simulator that ran realistically instead of the method used in 4. Market research also told Maxis that the market wanted an online city builder. Lastly they were told that the. Majority didn't like the large map sizes because they were too big!

Consumers gave Maxis an earful after all the issues they encountered with 4 and Rush Hour. They complained about how broken the base game is. They also complained about how unrealistic the graphics are. They complained about the lack of online play in regions. They complained about the lack of DLC. They also complained about all the bugs the game has.

Lastly Simcity 4 with all its releases has yet to break 2 million sold. Simcity 3000 sold over 5 million.

Maxis took all this into account when making 2013.

What happened? It became the second best selling game in the franchise and is on track to unseat 3000.

The market spoke and chose 2013 over 4.

After update 10 the only real issue I have in 2013 is the traveling students.

I honestly prefer 2013 over 4 when it comes to the simulation part.

[Rufus Honker IV 100]

After update 10 the only real issue I have in 2013 is the traveling students.

I honestly prefer 2013 over 4 when it comes to the simulation part.

 

Agreed on those points.  Also multiplayer and great works are still ridiculous or still broken, but not required to be fixed to enjoy the single-player game.

[Xenocity 343]

 

After update 10 the only real issue I have in 2013 is the traveling students.

I honestly prefer 2013 over 4 when it comes to the simulation part.

 

Agreed on those points.  Also multiplayer and great works are still ridiculous or still broken, but not required to be fixed to enjoy the single-player game.

 

Actually certain maps have bugs in them causing issues or rendering Great Works broken.

Outside of those few maps, both multiplayer and Great Works works as advertised.

[chappers 82]

oh gee this thread again i guess you guys didnt saw these wonderfull mods 

 

https://imgur.com/a/Wjrru#0

 

 

[Aprince 8]

oh gee this thread again i guess you guys didnt saw these wonderfull mods

https://imgur.com/a/Wjrru#0

Oh, so like um, you can create the illusion of a city. As nice as that looks, it still looks like crap..in terms of how the box just ends your civilization. theres no outer ring of development. Atleast in 4 i could do that.

Im not trying to be an arse btw.

What im wondering though is this, do the mods actually fix workers/students traveling to other cities for jobs/school. is traffic doable? or would i still have to manipulate it with one ways and feeders.

Simcity 2013 fell victim to market research, consumer feedback from 4, and the disastrous low sales of 4.

Market research told Maxis that people wanted a simulator that ran realistically instead of the method used in 4. Market research also told Maxis that the market wanted an online city builder. Lastly they were told that the. Majority didn't like the large map sizes because they were too big!

Consumers gave Maxis an earful after all the issues they encountered with 4 and Rush Hour. They complained about how broken the base game is. They also complained about how unrealistic the graphics are. They complained about the lack of online play in regions. They complained about the lack of DLC. They also complained about all the bugs the game has.

Lastly Simcity 4 with all its releases has yet to break 2 million sold. Simcity 3000 sold over 5 million.

Maxis took all this into account when making 2013.

What happened? It became the second best selling game in the franchise and is on track to unseat 3000.

The market spoke and chose 2013 over 4.

After update 10 the only real issue I have in 2013 is the traveling students.

I honestly prefer 2013 over 4 when it comes to the simulation part.

I can find plently of SC fans (many on this site btw) who would differ with this so called market research theory. Just because 4 didnt sell as much as 3, doesnt mean the games concept was bad. There are many reason as to why it may have not sold as many copies as 3000. Super hyping SC helped this go around. Promising things they didnt deliver also helped. Anyway, At the same time 3000 was a huge leap from 2000 with new features that hadnt been seen before as oppsoed to the jump from 3000 to 4. Plus the game could of been polished and certain things added and fixed for sure.. hmmm sounds familiar doesnt it.

SC may outsell 3000, but that still doesnt make it a great game. Sure, it may be a success financially, but that doesnt make it a good game. Plus, people please stop letting these gaming software compaines off with the every game has bugs and crap routine. If simcity were banking software, do you think there would be a single banking institution saying hey its okay if your software doesnt work properly.. come on... it would be more like.... next...

Geez i have update 10 and i have plenty of issues. But its cool. I get youre a fanboy, i am too.. However, im not in denial and wont defend it just because i am.

[Rufus Honker IV 100]

SC may outsell 3000,  but that still doesnt make it a great game. Sure, it may be a success financially, but that doesnt make it a good game.

 

Success financially is all EA cares about.  It's not a "great" game, EA is not "off the hook", but it is a playable game and they have made inroads since release.

 

I'm stumped as to how we can get companies to stop releasing buggy games - telling people not to buy them (good luck - people like complaining about how buggy the release is - it's a social activity online!) or threatening a class action lawsuit (the company is already ready for that and can stall for years until the playerbase gets bored) aren't viable.  This is the 21st century, they can do it, they will.  When even Blizzard entertainment - a company for whom quality was assured and claimed to only release "when it's ready" stoops to this with its buggy, laggy Diablo 3 release you know "release buggy, fix later" will be a hallmark of this generation's programmers.

 

Mentioning Diablo 3 I have to share this - I love this gif.  The Simcity release was the same.

[Aprince 8]

 they can do it, they will. 

 

 

unfortunately for the consumer this is the case.  we need some lemon laws for software, especially if they are claiming such and such and cant produce

[Xenocity 343]

Actually Western developers use tons of market research to develop their games in order to maxmize sales.

 

They use surveys, market research firms including NPD and others, customer feedback etc...

I've taken part in them.

 

Japanese developers on the other hand are criticized for not using market research or listening to customers.

 

Simulators are one of the most expensive genre of games to make due to all the components and regularly have issues the play testers didn't discover because they don't play the game as much as simulation fans do.

Due to this expense of making  simulators, especially with modern graphics and features, you need to make one that sells a few million copies to breakeven!

Simcity 4 sadly never had mass market appeal due the difficulty and complexity of the game.

Simcity 4 struggled to breakeven.

 

With this all said you know Maxis went bankrupt in 1996 and was forced to face liquidation or find a buyer.

Only EA was willing to buy Maxis.

 

I've used Arena simulation software (by Rockwell Egineering) which is one of the key simulation software companies use and it is more bug ridden and unstable than Simcity 4 and Simcity 2013 put together.

This software is what they use in primiarly in engineering and construction.

Using Excel and the professional simulation plugins causes Excel to regularly lock up and crash.

 

No need to call anyone a fanboy either.

Truth is Simcity 2013 has truer and better simulation than Simcity 4.

Simcity 4 is based on the stasticial engine of the first 3 games, while introducing new pathfinding alrogrithms for traffic, freight and other stuff.

The statiscial engine wasn't built to handle realistic simulation and big complex cities (those in Simcity 4).

Modders fixed many of the key issues in Simcity 4 with NAM and other mods.

 

I own and play both games on a semi regular basis, each has their own strengths.

 

With that said Simcity 2013 is not the most broken game of 2013 let alone of the past 5 years.

 

As for software, there is no way to prevent "broken software" (because no one can agree on a definition) from coming to market due to the complexity of software and people's expectations.

 

Some people still claim that Windows 8.1 is broken.

Others claim Mac OSX 10.9 is broken

Many claim iOS7 is broken

Etc...

 

Software is never problem and glitch free.

 

As for banking industry, they have gotten lots of trouble due to the software they have used.

The software the banking industry used or in many cases still uses has tons of security issues, glitches, bugs, and others issues.

This has allowed people to hack and steal tons of customer information including Social Security Numbers, Account numbers, adresses, names, and other valuable information.

This has cost the world billions of dollars over the past decade, prompting government investigations, regulation and huge fines.

 

The banking industry still has their online banking sites to get hacked as well causing huge theft of personal information on a semi regular basis to date.

This is why I don't online bank.

 

The banking industry's mobile apps have also had massive security breaches as well resulting in personal information being stolen.

 

This happens for three main reasons:

1. They refuse to spend the hundreds of millions required to secure the data and accounts. In part due to shareholders pressure.
2. Very little government regulation
3. Consumers are also ignorant of security features in their browsers and devices. 

Most industries refuse to spend the money on security or IT to make completely functional and secure software due to the upfront costs.

They'd rather take the gamble and hope no one finds out when it goes horribly wrong.

 

I won't even touch how bug ridden and insecure the software is that runs American credit card terminals and the backend.

 

The American air traffic control system is still using the same tracking system they implemented in the late 1970s and still use the black and green screens. The reason they haven't upgraded to the new system is due to the costs (nearly every airport is privately owned).

 

Ever wonder why American cell phone carriers still use mostly out of date hardware and using awful software to power their networks?

Because investors WILL NOT allow them spend the money to implement update to date hardware and fully fleshed out software.

 

Why do many gaming companies including EA, Bethesda, Ubisoft, Square-Enix, Capcom and etc... release heavily buggy games?

Because Investors will not allow them to delay games because it damages earnings and profits near immediately.

If Investors are unhappy with the quarterly and yearly outcome, they either sue the company for failure to maximize profits and/or they take control of the company, sacking the board and managment, installing their people.

 

Right now Apple and Best Buy are being sued by investors/shareholders in U.S. Federal Court for hurting investors profits by not releasing products on a timely manner and for refusing to  maximizing profits for shareholders.

 

Shareholders are currently in court fighting EA management for not releasing products in a timely manner and delaying games which have significantly damaged shareholder value and profits.

Shareholder are also in the process installing the new board and trying to find a CEO who will act in their best interest (current CEO is temporary).

 

By law publicly traded companies and/or companies with shareholders (you can be private with private shareholders) must act in the best interest of their shareholders (or the majority of shareholders), maximize profits for the shareholders, and lastly carry out the shareholders wishes.

 

Shareholders are the main reason why EA and most companies are unable or unwilling to delay products.

CEO will generally side with shareholders over costumers every damn time in most companies.

 

Welcome to capitalism!

[chappers 82]

 

oh gee this thread again i guess you guys didnt saw these wonderfull mods 

 

https://imgur.com/a/Wjrru#0

 

 

 

Oh, so like um, you can create the illusion of a city. As nice as that looks, it still looks like crap..in terms of how the box just ends your civilization. theres no outer ring of development. Atleast in 4 i could do that.

 

Im not trying to be an arse btw.

 

What im wondering though is this, do the mods actually fix workers/students traveling to other cities for jobs/school. is traffic doable? or would i still have to manipulate it with one ways and feeders.

 

as you can see traffic is pretty doable also workers and atleast some students are traveling between these 2 plots and on the plot immediatly ending ... yeah theres another plot next to it that i can easely joinup with this on if i would finish this region, the plot next to it actually let it build on this plot to if i would have wanted to

[Aprince 8]

Ive done market research and QA testing for EA (Tiburon) back in 2003-05 when I still lived in the states. What I learned is this, it doesnt matter what people have to say regarding their products, it comes down to dollar and cents - that is all. My theory was EA was trying to make SC into the SIMS with endless DLC, they just have a broken game and couldnt pull it off this go around. Its strange how COT was the expansion set, actually it wasnt.

 

You say they built the game on the advice of doing market research. Why is it that atleast 90% of general complaints from everyone is about how small the city plots are? Where are these market research peeps saying, yay? Then EA/MAXIS claim they cant have bigger plots due to most of the consumers PC couldnt handle it. Um, so much for building a game to the needs of its market then huh? However, thats just PR, modders have proven you can have bigger plots. Just as they proved the week Sim City came out, that you could play it offline, though EA claimed you couldnt. I believe they eventually wanted to sell bigger plots/maps as DLC and in further expansions.

 

Speaking of banking software, the non functional/functional processes of them work. As an end user if I were to transfer x amount of dollars from one of my accounts to another one and it ended up in yours, there would be hell to pay. This is roughly like trying to have workers travel from one city to another in SC - it doesnt work. If there are problems, they are rare and hiccups, not everyday occurances and btw they get fixed. Aside from the functional aspects of working software, I'll agree any software is unsecure and vulnerable to attack.

 

You say SimCity is now more realistic.. I ask how so? statistic based or not, the game is flawed.

 

Is it the fact that workers/students wont travel to cities next door to work and study?

 

Is it the fact there is only one feeder road into a city? They didnt give you the ability to add more because their agent pathfinding is as flawed as 4 (Id mention the mod-less flaws of 4, but this is about the reboot simcity).

 

Theres a reason why COT was the expansion of choice, they didnt have the room to expand out and they added things such as the airships, to keep more vehicles off the road?

 

Is it realistic to fib about the real population numbers in the city?

 

Is it real that none of the sims in the city have a house or job, they just ghost around to empty homes and jobs?

 

Is it real they didnt add subways and other transportation options? Im sure they either wanted to have subways as future DLC or they couldnt figure out how to work subways and resources together?

 

Is it real that there isnt any agriculture in the game? Apparently the sims eat trash like the homeless in the game.

 

Is it real the neighbor deals constanlty break down or dont work at all?

 

Is it real that buses dont travel in sequential order, rather they just go to whatever bus stop is full in any order. Plus all the buses will go.

 

How about not being able to zone medium density along a high density road? Why cant I. with the traffic issues in the game i basically forced to go high density roads, but that doesnt mean i want all high density buildings in that area.

 

Is it real i have to manipulate my road design to help appease the games bugs

 

Its it normal to combat the taxi glitch by having to bulldoze buildings to lessen the ammount in my city? Speaking of taxis is it normal to have one taxi per/tourist in these small arse plot sizes? I guess no one has to wait on taxis in this game.

 

If its so real, where is my federal prisons? Why cant i build prisons elsewhere? Oh yeah they took it out

 

Apparently noone gets burried in the game - cemetaries also got the nix due to map size.

 

They took so much out of this game... to make it more real.

 

They had to have great works, because there was no room to build them in these city plots?

 

The city plot sizes are so real too. i mean you really cant build what you want or how you want. Though its a sim, its still a sandbox builder, and they managed to do something that most dont. Restrict its users (builders/designers) in how they design/build and play in their sandboxes. It defeats the concept of the genre.

 

 

Let us just agree to disagree.

  Edited October 11, 2014 by CaptCity  

[Xenocity 343]

I'm not arguing with you, but you fail to understand how the core simulation works in simcity 2013 and the statistical engine that powered the first 4 games.

Statistical engine was based on number crunching and equations to make everything run (think of it as a glorified excel spreadsheet)

Agent based simulation for goes all of that and let's you program everything down to the smallest detail.

All new simulations even non gaming ones use a variation of agents.

These simulations are more realistic then the statistical approach.

I'm probably not explaining this clearly, feel free to research it.

Each Simcity game has lost features of its predecessors.

Depending on which version of Simcity 1 determines what you lost going to 2000.

We lost in most cases:

expo center

Central train station

windmills landmarks

main city park

police HQ

fire HQ,

draw bridges and a few others.

Depending on which version of Simcity 2000 (there were 8 versions) determined what you lost going to 3000.

We lost:

future building sets

arcologies (all 4 kinds)

hydroelectric power plants

waterfalls,

having a regular volcano in your city

the city council (they would enact ordinances without your approval)

the cutscenes

each building having there own pipes (you only had to connect them to watered building or water main)

the newspaper (all major events would shown in newspaper form)

bond rating (like in real life, it determines the interest rats you borrow at)

the ability to place signs, the ability to place labels

the giant alien spider disaster

the ability to build a a road that has tunnel and bridge connected,

online region play

The ability to dispatch the military

and a few others.

Simcity 3000/3000U to Simcity 4/Deluxe

We lost:

The 3 different building designs (I missed Asian buildings)

The built in building creation tool

Many of the special building including the Mega Mall.

The petitioners

A few power plants (I miss Microwave)

Many landmarks

Many disasters as well

Simcity 2000 is still the most feature rich Simcity game right out of the box!

The only real gripe with Simcity 2013 is the city sizes.

Everything else has very little impact on the core simulation.

They could release an expansion pack for bigger cities, though it would probably require most of us to upgrade our PCs.

This is why CoT is the way it is.

Airships are a separate DLC that has nothing to do with CoT or anything else for that matter

CoT does have drones for Omega and emergency vehicles.

Maxis purposely scaled down the game to run on most peoples computers, instead of having to relive the Simcity 4 launch when people had trouble running it at minimum specs (these folks complained loudly).

Simcity 2013 was leaked by people who were participating in the market research.

Will Wright before he left Maxis stated that Simcity 4 was too complex for most people and the new Simcity would go back to the basics.

We've had 7 years to prepare for this.

I forgot to tell you a few of the original maps are glitch ridden (use google to find the list).

Now make like a Simcity 4 player and start modding your game to fix it!!!!

P.S. You don't have to respond to this, since this is my last post in here.

Just focus on how much we've lost moving on from Simcity 2000.

[Rufus Honker IV 100]

Honestly, I have never liked the idea of building different cities for a region.

 

Simcity 2000 (maybe 3000, too) had fake cites bordering you you could connect to.  Simcity 4 allowed you to make a whole region.  I liked Simcity 4, didn't like the region bit.

 

Simcity 5 has the same issue.  Not to mention the city size makes people want to build a power/sewage/water city to feed their main one - meaning people often end up snagging two good zones right off the bat in multiplayer.

[Airplane09 13]

@Rufus Honker IV,

It's impossible to have a huge city plot simply because we don't have the computers that can take it. That's why, instead of rendering millions of kilometers of urban planning, you split you metropolis into more boxes / parts (how you want to call them). SimCity 4 allowed me to do just that: I could have a HUGE city, only difference was that you called it a "region".

 

@Aprince,

I agree with almost everything you said. SimCity 2013 IS an unfinished product in terms of transportation, agriculture, ETC and ETC and soooo on. Still, after knowing all it's bugs, I still enjoy playing it.... 90% percent of the people who bought the game would say that it is really annoying, frustrating to see it's bugs, and would throw it away, but 10% of the buyers would come to know SC's shortcomings, accept them and would still play THIS game.

[FourWinds 29]

I've read the thread and I agree with all of you...in parts of what you say. teehee

 

Firstly, I still enjoy playing the game, and I don't wish anyone dead because it's not Google Earth, with the drawing of roads and RCI zoning thrown in. 

 

Did they want to sell large plots as DLC? I seriously doubt it. Was the small plot size due to the inadequacies of PCs? Again, I seriously doubt it. My opinion is that Glassbox just couldn't handle more than it does reliably; and so what we got/have is as a result of simply that.

 

But, when I first played the game I didn't mind the small plots as much as most; why, it was because of the region, and my understanding that I would set up specialised cities to supply cash and resources around my region. It would be a beautiful symbiotic structure, and I would see that it was good. 

 

Oh dear. After a few hours I was hitting the internet to see how this was done. A little while later I was sad.

 

I still enjoy it, even limited to a single plot. Note that 'offline mode' is just that, and is not a 'single player game.'

 

Maybe Maxis will expose enough of the game to allow the moders to, one day, give me a regional game, and therefore the single player game I dream of; maybe.

[Airplane09 13]

 

I've read the thread and I agree with all of you...in parts of what you say. teehee

 

Firstly, I still enjoy playing the game, and I don't wish anyone dead because it's not Google Earth, with the drawing of roads and RCI zoning thrown in. 

 

Did they want to sell large plots as DLC? I seriously doubt it. Was the small plot size due to the inadequacies of PCs? Again, I seriously doubt it. My opinion is that Glassbox just couldn't handle more than it does reliably; and so what we got/have is as a result of simply that.

 

But, when I first played the game I didn't mind the small plots as much as most; why, it was because of the region, and my understanding that I would set up specialised cities to supply cash and resources around my region. It would be a beautiful symbiotic structure, and I would see that it was good. 

 

Oh dear. After a few hours I was hitting the internet to see how this was done. A little while later I was sad.

 

I still enjoy it, even limited to a single plot. Note that 'offline mode' is just that, and is not a 'single player game.'

 

Maybe Maxis will expose enough of the game to allow the moders to, one day, give me a regional game, and therefore the single player game I dream of; maybe.

 

I haven't seen any update posts from Maxis on the SC forums, no sign of life for months ! Plus their new AAA project and their new recruiting makes me belive that Maxis gave up on SimCity 5.................... :(

[FourWinds 29]

 

 

I've read the thread and I agree with all of you...in parts of what you say. teehee

 

Firstly, I still enjoy playing the game, and I don't wish anyone dead because it's not Google Earth, with the drawing of roads and RCI zoning thrown in. 

 

Did they want to sell large plots as DLC? I seriously doubt it. Was the small plot size due to the inadequacies of PCs? Again, I seriously doubt it. My opinion is that Glassbox just couldn't handle more than it does reliably; and so what we got/have is as a result of simply that.

 

But, when I first played the game I didn't mind the small plots as much as most; why, it was because of the region, and my understanding that I would set up specialised cities to supply cash and resources around my region. It would be a beautiful symbiotic structure, and I would see that it was good. 

 

Oh dear. After a few hours I was hitting the internet to see how this was done. A little while later I was sad.

 

I still enjoy it, even limited to a single plot. Note that 'offline mode' is just that, and is not a 'single player game.'

 

Maybe Maxis will expose enough of the game to allow the moders to, one day, give me a regional game, and therefore the single player game I dream of; maybe.

 

I haven't seen any update posts from Maxis on the SC forums, no sign of life for months ! Plus their new AAA project and their new recruiting makes me belive that Maxis gave up on SimCity 5.................... :(

 

Don't be sad. I have faith in Paradox and Cities: Skylines. I'm sure we'll all love it, and that there will be a forum dedicated to it here.

[Airplane09 13]

I'm having my BIGGEST, BIGGEST hopes on another city building game... it's called CITYBOUND people, made by one man and looks already absolutely stunning. Citybound,....... people ! ! ! ! Cities Skyline also looks interesting, but Citybound promises EVERYTHING that SC missed and SO MUCH MORE ! ! ! ! ! ! I think it worths at least one  search on Google... it also has a forum here, on Simtropolis (at indie projects).

[Rufus Honker IV 100]

@Rufus Honker IV,

It's impossible to have a huge city plot simply because we don't have the computers that can take it. That's why, instead of rendering millions of kilometers of urban planning, you split you metropolis into more boxes / parts (how you want to call them). SimCity 4 allowed me to do just that: I could have a HUGE city, only difference was that you called it a "region".

 

I'm fully aware.  Just my opinion on the topic.

[zbeginendz 55]

@Rufus Honker IV,

It's impossible to have a huge city plot simply because we don't have the computers that can take it. That's why, instead of rendering millions of kilometers of urban planning, you split you metropolis into more boxes / parts (how you want to call them). SimCity 4 allowed me to do just that: I could have a HUGE city, only difference was that you called it a "region".

 

I built a nice size city with with 1.2 million sims with the orion mod and I run between 50-60 fps 24/7 with ultra textures,high everything else and medium shadows with aa on. I will give you that it takes an expensive pc to run these huge cities at ultra/high settings on huge cities but it's not impossible. I am on a mediocre 965 amd and a 4gb680gtx with 16gb ripjaw and it does surprisingly decent. I could see if you had a 290x in crossfire or a 780ti in sli plus an 8350 oc'd to 4.4 ghz or the nicest intel cpu clocked at 5ghz it should have no problem running big ciites maxed out. Also I am at 1920x1080 resolution. Anything higher say 1440p or even 4k and you deffinetly need a powerhouse pc.

[TheCraftKid 52]

I'm having my BIGGEST, BIGGEST hopes on another city building game... it's called CITYBOUND people, made by one man and looks already absolutely stunning. Citybound,....... people ! ! ! ! Cities Skyline also looks interesting, but Citybound promises EVERYTHING that SC missed and SO MUCH MORE ! ! ! ! ! ! I think it worths at least one  search on Google... it also has a forum here, on Simtropolis (at indie projects).

 

As of now, Citybound is just city simulator. No more. It almost appears to be a transport simulator with elements of a city simulator. On the inside and outside, it feels like a cold, wet basement. No renovation can fix that.

Citybound may have the hype, but it doesn't have the character. No unusual quirks like SimCity. No feeling of homey-ness. Nothing to make the user come back other than a memory of "SimCity's launch sucked so I'm going to try and "I'm trying to see the outcomes of that game, and they all end up as the same thing: Citybound will become a cheap indie game with no vision other than a "city simulator."

[Aprince 8]

IM actually looking forward to Cities skylines. However, buildings seem pretty repetetive from all the screenshots i have seen. I just glad theyll have mod tools out from the start to possibly help wiith this.

 

Ive been trying to look for an open beta test for cities, but i havent seen anything on this. Does anyone have any info for this

[Airplane09 13]

 

I'm having my BIGGEST, BIGGEST hopes on another city building game... it's called CITYBOUND people, made by one man and looks already absolutely stunning. Citybound,....... people ! ! ! ! Cities Skyline also looks interesting, but Citybound promises EVERYTHING that SC missed and SO MUCH MORE ! ! ! ! ! ! I think it worths at least one  search on Google... it also has a forum here, on Simtropolis (at indie projects).

 

As of now, Citybound is just city simulator. No more. It almost appears to be a transport simulator with elements of a city simulator. On the inside and outside, it feels like a cold, wet basement. No renovation can fix that.

Citybound may have the hype, but it doesn't have the character. No unusual quirks like SimCity. No feeling of homey-ness. Nothing to make the user come back other than a memory of "SimCity's launch sucked so I'm going to try and "I'm trying to see the outcomes of that game, and they all end up as the same thing: Citybound will become a cheap indie game with no vision other than a "city simulator."

 

How much time is needed to come up with a good game? I think a lot. But Citybound is just about 25 weeks old ! There is no way anyone can tell how it will look when it comes out because the project is simply too "young". The graphics might not be the most advanced, but I don't really want opulent windows and doors and flowers on balconies.......

Sometimes, minimalistic is better. And above everything else, it promises to be a good city simulator, with all transportation options (bus, tram, rail, tube ; bus / bike / pedestrian lanes), proper economic chains, A HUGE 50 by 50 KILOMETERS MAP, millions of citizens....... and sooooo much more !

Isn't this what we actually want????

Maybe, you like the idea "Hey there's a house, I think I'll stay there for the night..........(in the morning he goes looking for the first job that pops out)......... There's a job, I'll think I'll take that one........(comes back from the job in the afternoon - goes to the first house that pops out)............There's another house, I guess I'll have it.........." more. Do you remember this one?

To sum up, I think Citybound will be a great succes, Cities Skylines looks promising too, let's hope that these simulators will cover the gap that SimCity has created, and, in the end, let's agree to disagree.

 

Airplane09.

[Stormy2014 1]

I'm one of those who waited for offline mode.. and as such, ALL of my SC2013 experience is while in offline 'mode'. So with that knowledge in mind, how are you guys calling SC2013 a working game? Maybe I'm doing something wrong? Or maybe it only works right in 'online mode'? And yes, I'm running 10.1.

I can get what seems to be a working city, making money, everyone's happy, but once I start getting high density buildings I start having major problems. Sims cannot find jobs despite the population panel (F2) showing a lot of jobs of the same wealth type, and the job buildings are screaming they have to close due to no workers. Eventually the buildings will become abandoned. I've also had the population panel appear to be completely out of sync with what visually shows when clicking on buildings. 0 jobs available in the Pop panel, people unemployed, but click on some businesses and you can see they're screaming they have no workers. This problem will also happen within a megatower between levels. Jobs screaming they need workers, residents screaming they can't find jobs or shops, and shops screaming they don't have enough shoppers. They're in the same tower!! Wth?? I've completely given up on megatowers. They just don't seem worth the problems for the footprint size.

I've tried various mods available. Some work as intended.. some work but break other things, or introduce new bugs.. some are broken from the start because the game engine itself doesn't really support it.. the mods have helped but they've also frustrated me worse in some cases due to the bugs that get introduced.. udon is one of those.. works like it should, but agents can get eaten, and I had one city so bugged I lost all of my police and all of my dump trucks which made the city completely unplayable.

My cities aren't congested, I have plenty of different mass transit options appropriate for the wealth type of sims I'm trying to move, and those mass transit stops aren't congested and 'are' being used.. yet the game still seems to break down after getting larger populations. Are we really only supposed to play this to a medium density level? If others aren't having these issues, what am I doing wrong? My tourism pathing is separate from my city RCI pathing, and my mass transit seems to be working as well as it can (the AI in this game is terrible).

And forget about having the masses commute between cities. I can get a small portion of people to commute through various transportation types, but I can't depend on it due to the low number of people actually willing to commute.

And unrelated to the OP, but already mentioned by others:
I too am watching Citybound. Who knows what will actually come out of it. It's promising, but it's at such an early stage that anything can happen. Especially since it's primarily a single person doing the game, and not some corporation with deep pockets, huge commitments, set release dates, and shareholders screaming for results to get it out so they can have their money. But it's definitely been an interesting way to write a game.. with the public watching and interacting with the main programmer/owner, live, with quick brainstorming sessions when problems arise, all while he works away at it.

[TheCraftKid 52]

 

 

I'm having my BIGGEST, BIGGEST hopes on another city building game... it's called CITYBOUND people, made by one man and looks already absolutely stunning. Citybound,....... people ! ! ! ! Cities Skyline also looks interesting, but Citybound promises EVERYTHING that SC missed and SO MUCH MORE ! ! ! ! ! ! I think it worths at least one  search on Google... it also has a forum here, on Simtropolis (at indie projects).

 

As of now, Citybound is just city simulator. No more. It almost appears to be a transport simulator with elements of a city simulator. On the inside and outside, it feels like a cold, wet basement. No renovation can fix that.

Citybound may have the hype, but it doesn't have the character. No unusual quirks like SimCity. No feeling of homey-ness. Nothing to make the user come back other than a memory of "SimCity's launch sucked so I'm going to try and "I'm trying to see the outcomes of that game, and they all end up as the same thing: Citybound will become a cheap indie game with no vision other than a "city simulator."

 

How much time is needed to come up with a good game? I think a lot. But Citybound is just about 25 weeks old ! There is no way anyone can tell how it will look when it comes out because the project is simply too "young". The graphics might not be the most advanced, but I don't really want opulent windows and doors and flowers on balconies.......

Sometimes, minimalistic is better. And above everything else, it promises to be a good city simulator, with all transportation options (bus, tram, rail, tube ; bus / bike / pedestrian lanes), proper economic chains, A HUGE 50 by 50 KILOMETERS MAP, millions of citizens....... and sooooo much more !

Isn't this what we actually want????

Maybe, you like the idea "Hey there's a house, I think I'll stay there for the night..........(in the morning he goes looking for the first job that pops out)......... There's a job, I'll think I'll take that one........(comes back from the job in the afternoon - goes to the first house that pops out)............There's another house, I guess I'll have it.........." more. Do you remember this one?

To sum up, I think Citybound will be a great succes, Cities Skylines looks promising too, let's hope that these simulators will cover the gap that SimCity has created, and, in the end, let's agree to disagree.

 

Airplane09.

 

As far as I can tell, all cities will look the game. A couple curved streets and a large grid later, all the buildings will become repetitive and there will be NO CHARACTER in the game.

 

If someone can prove me wrong, I'll get you an ice cream cone.

 

I think your beloved game will run into the same problem Maxis didn't want to deal with: in an agent-based simulation, storing individual data in thousands, possibly MILLIONS of agents, since there will be 50km^2 maps, will screw any computer over. NO programming can fix this problem without memory leaks or a BEEF computer.

You said that simplicity is sometimes best. Maxis used the "first come first serve model" because it WAS simple. Buildings produce property taxes instead of a 10-step long process of collecting money at specialized buildings, making even more agents go from building to building collecting money into a centralized pool which goes to that center, industrial warehouses, and to a treasury wing at a town hall. Why make all that money so fogged up by the simulation?

Why would you really care about ONE sim unit out of THOUSANDS of others? All of them work together to produce the simulation! I know I don't care about what sim goes into what house, workplace, or commerical center! It's an illusion of a simulation that ACTUALLY exists.

 

And just for the record, the new SimCity is phenominal. With 3D Graphics V6 and Agent-based simulation, it essentially redefined the genre! There's a reason the game wasn't the Fifth SimCity: A fundamental change in mechanics requires an image change. And now everyone's using agents for a simulation.