Name Convention Standards to help Users (FEEDBACK PLEASE)

[xoxide 377]

Name Convention and Standards to help Users and Modders alike including mod managers

 

XXX - MODE OF USE - MOD TYPE - MOD GROUP or MOD PERSON - MOD DATE - MOD VERSION - MOD NAME

 

XXX = load order if needed can be 000 if doesn't matter

 

MODE OF USE = Offline or Online

 

UGC TYPE - DLC or EP or other if needed

 

MOD TYPE = Graphics / Behavior / Building / Road etc whatever we need

 

MOD GROUP OR PERSON = self explanatory

 

MOD DATE = INTERNATIONAL FORMAT PLEASE FOR SORTING (201407210)

 

Version of the mod in question = self explanatory

 

Mod NAME = Self explanatory

 

 

so

example

 

001 - OFFLINE - UGC DLC - ROAD BEHAVIOR - XoXiDE TEAM 1 - 20140710 - 1.7 - UDons

  Edited July 11, 2014 by xoxide  
Merged identical topic here.

[Tobse 37]

i like your idea!

 

My idea about

 

MOD DATE = INTERNATIONAL FORMAT PLEASE FOR SORTING (140710)

 

i removed 20 (year)

just an idea

[xoxide 377]

XXX - MODE OF USE  - MOD TYPE - MOD GROU or MOD PERSON - MOD DATE - MOD VERSION - MOD NAME

 

XXX = load order if needed can be 000 if doesn't matter

 

MODE OF USE = OFFLINE or ONLINE

 

MOD TYPE = Graphics / Behavior / BUILDING / Roads etc whatever we need

 

MOD GROUP or PERSON = Self explanatory

 

MOD DATE = INTERNATIONAL FORMAT PLEASE FOR SORTING (20140710)

VERSION = Self Explanatory

 

Mod Name = Self Explanatory

 

So example would be

 

 

001 - OFFLINE - ROAD BEHAVIOR - XoXiDE TEAM 1 - 20140710 - 1.7 - UDons

 

 

 

 

[xoxide 377]

so many things are just getting gout of control due to quantity and variations and also mods

 

I can't find my own stuff even

 

we have to tackle that as a group

 

XOXIDE ALL MODS .package and then options for those whom are more advance

 

its confusing people .. if people get confused then they don't use mods

 

so many little details

[Yayie 311]

001-OFFLINE-Interface-XoXiDe TEAM 1- 2014JUL10 - 2.0 - Akar

 

I prefer the date read like this.

[Blue Keiko 39]

Oppie made a lot of different mods that started with "Oppie". All those mods are alphabetically sorted right above each other on the list in SimCityData. And his are really the only ones that are neatly sorted.

 

So it would be good to make sure that one's own mods start with a name.

Secondly, mentioning "on", or "off", for online or offline can be handy. But then I would mention the mod's name as too much information can work just as confusing.

 

It's only a suggestion.

[Panther6308 14]

Xoxide,

 

Are you a mind reader? I was working on that yesterday night after we left.
 

The only difference is I had put the date first so I can see immediately if I have the latest version of the mod even if only minor changes in the mod were made that didn't justify to change the version number of the mod.

 

my 2 cent

 

Pinky!

[xoxide 377]

this is stage one of many other aspects of unification and making sense for new and more experienced users

and those whom wish different results

 

so we have to work together

[TheCraftKid 52]

This appears to work very well, but the format would be more readable as this:

 

XXX - Mode of Use - Mod Name - Mod Version - Mod Developer - Mod Type - Mod Date

 

Ex:

 

150 - OFFLINE - Project Cultivation - 2.3 - TheCraftKid - "Expansion" Addon - 2014JUL10

(Hint hint)

[Panther6308 14]

Here's my suggestion:

 

xxx-mod of use-mod type-mod name-mod version-mod creator-[mod date]

 

this give this:

 

001 - OFFLINE - ROAD BEHAVIOR – Udons – 1.7 - XoXiDE TEAM 1 - 20140710

 

Pinky!

[xoxide 377]

I think name should be last.. I'm not even sure version should be there but I think due to updates as of late it needs to be so users can figure out what to delete and keep

 

last will mess up sorts

 

 

you have to think like a computer not just a person in naming conventions and practical use of names in programs and directories as seen by the programs

 

this was why I picked the above order

 

however in the end it needs to be a community decision and voted upon and agreed or it will not work.

[xoxide 377]

added something else since its now literally the dawn of this type of classification

 

UGC DLC

and

UGC EP

 

Akar and others are the first UGC EP by the SCUGC Team and yet others stand as independent UGC DLC's like Decorations and other items coming tonight and this up coming week (so much so fast)

 

So this needs or should be called out and also part of the description and organization of mods and type of file names

 

so much information structure and change is needed now more than ever.

[smalljude 11]

Just a little thought on this now that I've started to download mods with the new naming conventions.  

 

Would you consider *not* putting the version # or date in the name of the .package file itself? One of the nice things about previous mod naming was basically dragging and dropping the new mod version into SimCityData. It would recognise there was an existing copy of that mod there and ask if you wanted to replace it or not.  This meant you didn't have to hunt through and delete the old versions - which for some mod's (decorations pack for example) can be quite tedious.  I can see how the version/date is useful information, so what if all mods came in a parent folder that *did* have those things in its name - but the .package files inside were always the same for that mod no matter when they were released?

[xoxide 377]

going over variations.. version number would solve 1 problem but would create another

 

IMO

 

version number allows testers to continue development and moving of files out that are duplicate.  When people follow this process all of the versions would be next to each other and in a sort would be easy to identify in order to remove old versions but would allow users to use versions that maybe better for them if they do not wish to use a new version of something vs an older version

 

the process is actually one used in REV controls however putting that into a file name so that mod managers could manage multiple versions and implementations for variations is one of the reasons for these file name implementations as well as load order requirements as users and even specific mods require

 

always open to debate..

[smalljude 11]

going over variations.. version number would solve 1 problem but would create another

 

IMO

 

version number allows testers to continue development and moving of files out that are duplicate.  When people follow this process all of the versions would be next to each other and in a sort would be easy to identify in order to remove old versions but would allow users to use versions that maybe better for them if they do not wish to use a new version of something vs an older version

 

the process is actually one used in REV controls however putting that into a file name so that mod managers could manage multiple versions and implementations for variations is one of the reasons for these file name implementations as well as load order requirements as users and even specific mods require

 

always open to debate..

 

Hmm ok. It's definitely going to be something that people have different opinions on I'm sure. I'm used to file structures in visual effects where there is a lot of symbolic linking which relies on the names being the same. So far, with the new names (as a user not a modder) it's been a little hard to determine which .package belongs to which mod (hard to find the mod name) - for instance: 000_OFFLINE_DLC_OBJECTS_SUGC_TEAM1_20140718_1_0.package   .... there isn't much there to help me know what mod that is part of (it's in the decorations pack).   I can see how the info might be really important for the modders (e.g. team etc) so it's a balancing act to keep the end user in mind as well.  Good luck and thanks for responding (as always).  

[xoxide 377]

its meant to be ..

 

I'm not sure there is one answer.

 

the team, devtest, modders are trying to come up with something as a start point.

 

if yours wish to make changes that's always their perspective and point.  We are finding that already we need to make alterations to the first position so that load order can happen in the correct method.

 

but this is why we came upw ith the idea

 

we provide a direction... after that the community including yourself improve upon anything that is published and or participate and help with the migration and direction to help improve anything that can be seen as a flaw from a user perspective or the development process

 

Mod managers are going to start using more detailed information but unless minimum or specific minimum requirements are provided they cant managed or download updates correctly without knowing more about the status of the mod in question.

 

we have a LONG ways to go.

 

jeff

[grtbaldini 1]

I started just keeping separate folders with all the new versions. Then just delete everything and put in the newest. I think the easiest would be filename_version.package.

[smalljude 11]

its meant to be ..

 

I'm not sure there is one answer.

 

the team, devtest, modders are trying to come up with something as a start point.

 

if yours wish to make changes that's always their perspective and point.  We are finding that already we need to make alterations to the first position so that load order can happen in the correct method.

 

but this is why we came upw ith the idea

 

we provide a direction... after that the community including yourself improve upon anything that is published and or participate and help with the migration and direction to help improve anything that can be seen as a flaw from a user perspective or the development process

 

Mod managers are going to start using more detailed information but unless minimum or specific minimum requirements are provided they cant managed or download updates correctly without knowing more about the status of the mod in question.

 

we have a LONG ways to go.

 

jeff

 

 

Thankyou thankyou  Ah right, the mod managers - yeah I see your point.  As far as I know there are no mod managers for Mac. I can imagine if we were all using one then it wouldn't be such an issue if the names were not particularly legible to the average user.  I can see it's a huge task for all of you!  Naming conventions are notoriously contentious...hehe

[xoxide 377]

@smalljude keep in mind we are or I am looking at 12 - 20 steps ahead of where we are at the moment like I have been for some time.  Nothing is black and white .. not only do you have perspective like yours and mind as just a user but as a modder but as people whom do not even have a clue what they are doing yet.

 

so we have to map out things and try to keep things moving in the right direction

 

if you know anything about mame (the arcade emulator) .. I have downloaded the same rom a gazillion times over 15 years.. WHY because of changes in practice and going form 10 - 20 emulated games to 4000.

 

We can't just worry about what is there now but how we approach the quantities and complexities of these mods when they get to 300 - 500 and beyond.

 

this is the beginning of what makes sense to the larger schema.

 

I know it doesn't make sense yet to anyone but we have to deal with the practical first then try to simplify it over time and its a struggle and a challenge.

 

Not only mod managers but mod downloaders and other tools in the background of development.  So from a user dropping new stuff in a folder they can see things align in the folder they do need and are expected to have some understanding of the process of modding... naming conventions are kind of more important now just like akar and other practices of implementation are important before things go into mod storm mode where we get 50 mods a day.

 

proactive or reactive

 

file names are only 1/10th of the larger process we are looking at .. its just we do not always go into detail yet but its changing in the public of why we are doing things or the direction things are going.. if you notice over the last 3 months we have changed our presentation and our interaction from private to public on purpose.

 

mod managers do not have to be separate compiled programs either we could use web based mod managers as well with profile.

 

jeff

[Natir 7]

Name the actual mod file whatever you guys like... As long as it has the name of the mod somewhere in the file name, I don't think anyone will care unless it is something like:

 

0000_offline_214848348733873_Avalon_94894_49393_version_9000

 

Word of advice though, please make sure the naming scheme on the actual downloads page shows the current date for when each of the mods were actually updated... It gets really annoying when you see a mod has been updated but there really is no indication as to which files were updated. If the description, etc, was updated that is fine. However, when I see a mod is updated, I don't pay attention to if a description was changed, I go right to the downloads part as that is what I look at. If there is no indication anything was changed, I really don't feel like downloading new files just to find out it was a waste of time... This is mostly a SimTropolis issue due to how slow the downloads can take sometimes to initiate and download and there being a daily cap...

Here's my suggestion:

 

xxx-mod of use-mod type-mod name-mod version-mod creator-[mod date]

 

this give this:

 

001 - OFFLINE - ROAD BEHAVIOR – Udons – 1.7 - XoXiDE TEAM 1 - 20140710

 

Pinky!

 

When it comes to the mod, most of that really means nothing to someone like myself. I don't care that it is for road behavior or that it was made by the xoxide team or the date.

 

I want it to be sorted in the order it should be since everything is manual right now, I want to know if it is for offline or online use, I want to know the name and that is all. The version number can be in the name of the zip file and the file description itself will have a date when it was last modified.

 

Personally, you guys are putting way too much thought into this. The naming scheme should be something simple everyone can understand and not be 8000 characters long. Frequently changing the naming scheme also will be frustrating as people want to just open up the zip file and drop them into the data folder and have just replace the old files. Frequently changing the naming scheme means you have to manually delete the old entries and make sure you removed all the correct ones...

 

What would I want to see? Here is my example.  [sorting Order - Offline/Online - Type - Name]

 

001 - Offline - RoadUI - Akar 

 

Boom! Simple. As for the version and the date, you can get that all from the file info by going to properties on the file itself... No need to add that to the name of the file itself.

 

Again, for the date, this doesn't need to be in the file as it is redundant. Have that in the description on the actual download page. The team who made it? Have that on the mod description. I get the modders want credit or whatnot, but having it in the title is annoying and serves no real purpose.

[Yayie 311]

All changes marked in change log. Noted since day one.

[Natir 7]

All changes marked in change log. Noted since day one.

 

So, rather than doing something like, I dunno, add a date to when something was updated, you just put in a version number? Sorry while I laugh. Why do you guys insist on making things harder for people? I'm seriously not going to waste my time downloading mods that continuously get updated when I have no clue what was actually updated. I have seen you guys add dates to the change log and the file descriptions on this site and then not do it. Is doing this really that hard? Is this a simtropolis limitation? I don't mean to be condescending but your very short ignorant answer kind of makes me do that... You guys want feedback that will make the experience more helpful for the regular person. Adding dates to something should not be something to question... This site (stupidly) does not have a feature as to automatically show when each file was updated, so it relies on the modders to do that to make it easier on the person installing the mod. Adding a date to the individual file itself really serves no purpose like I mentioned in my post above.. The file description itself tells you when the file was last modified...

 

[xoxide 377]

and we are intentionally not using spaces or - but _ to conform with mac and pc requirements

 

we are in what I think of mid stride or mid stream to changes so its more of a mess than it would be if this had been decided year ago

[Natir 7]

and we are intentionally not using spaces or - but _ to conform with mac and pc requirements

 

I think we are more or less using that to so it shows up better on the forums here and not for what will actually be used... Whatever character you use for that purpose is up to you.. Makes no difference. Obviously reasons for the use of _ over - or a space...

[smalljude 11]

@smalljude keep in mind we are or I am looking at 12 - 20 steps ahead of where we are at the moment like I have been for some time.  Nothing is black and white .. not only do you have perspective like yours and mind as just a user but as a modder but as people whom do not even have a clue what they are doing yet.

 

so we have to map out things and try to keep things moving in the right direction

 

if you know anything about mame (the arcade emulator) .. I have downloaded the same rom a gazillion times over 15 years.. WHY because of changes in practice and going form 10 - 20 emulated games to 4000.

 

We can't just worry about what is there now but how we approach the quantities and complexities of these mods when they get to 300 - 500 and beyond.

 

this is the beginning of what makes sense to the larger schema.

 

I know it doesn't make sense yet to anyone but we have to deal with the practical first then try to simplify it over time and its a struggle and a challenge.

 

Not only mod managers but mod downloaders and other tools in the background of development.  So from a user dropping new stuff in a folder they can see things align in the folder they do need and are expected to have some understanding of the process of modding... naming conventions are kind of more important now just like akar and other practices of implementation are important before things go into mod storm mode where we get 50 mods a day.

 

proactive or reactive

 

file names are only 1/10th of the larger process we are looking at .. its just we do not always go into detail yet but its changing in the public of why we are doing things or the direction things are going.. if you notice over the last 3 months we have changed our presentation and our interaction from private to public on purpose.

 

mod managers do not have to be separate compiled programs either we could use web based mod managers as well with profile.

 

jeff

 

 

Thanks - I really don't want to make you guys feel I'm arguing or not appreciating  I think the last couple of months has seen an explosion of work from modders, so coordinating and streamlining is a huge task. I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say *THANKYOU*

 

Just throwing another suggestion (which I'm sure you're way ahead of) just in case it might seem useful.  For the mods that have more than one .package file - would it be useful to put the parent mod name in there, as well as the specific file name?  I'd love to see instantly which mods are Orion vs Akar vs something else etc ... for when I need to delete all the files associated with one mod.

 

OK...  that's all for now, and don't feel you have to reply (you have better things to do!).  Good luck (and have fun too)

[Yayie 311]

Will see to it

[Panther6308 14]

Natir,

 

That is the point of this thread, find a way to name mods in a simple manner for modders and players.

 

It took you 3/4 of your first message today to finally bring your idea of the way you want the mod's name. The rest of your message and the one to Yayie were only to point how stupid we are to xoxide, Yayie and me.

 

We bring this problem here to have a discussion and feedback from all of you in good manner. Just say what you don't like, what you like and propose how you see the mod and the compress file be named. 

 

Right now, from the feedback we got, including yourself, there is a difference between the name of the compress file we download and the name of the package.

 

The compress file can use the way that is proposed. This will sort the files in your download folder and it will be easy for people to know if they already download it. The team name can be removed as you said, apart for publicity sake, it is already written in the web page of the mod.

 

Someone in the Project Akar thread proposed to put Akar (or whatever special mod is needed) in the mod name to identify it work with it.

 

Starting from my suggestion and people feedback, the compress file can be:

 

001_[Offline-Online]_[special mod name]_modtype_modname_modversion_moddate.Rar

 

As for the mod/package name, your idea is very good. It have to be short for mods manager and easy to see and to sort in the simcitydata folder. No versioning so when people not using mods manager copy an update of the file package in the simcitydata folder, it will replace the one already there.

 

So your suggestion can now be: 

 

001_[Offline-Online]_[special modname needed]_modType_modName.package

 

Why ? Because some people will not use Akar and they will want to use the standalone mod. So we have to tell which one work with Akar and the stand alone one.

 

This is a work in progress. Your idea is as good as mine. The point is to find a way people and modders will agree the most. It is not a competition on who will win his point and beat the other. It is for all of us.

 

You have to remember all this is new for everybody. Simcity Offline is only 4 months old and see how many mods are now available in less than 2 months. And it will grow and fast in the following months. That's why we have to resolve this before it get out of hands.

 

Pinky!

[Natir 7]

Natir,

 

That is the point of this thread, find a way to name mods in a simple manner for modders and players.

 

It took you 3/4 of your first message today to finally bring your idea of the way you want the mod's name. The rest of your message and the one to Yayie were only to point how stupid we are to xoxide, Yayie and me.

 

We bring this problem here to have a discussion and feedback from all of you in good manner. Just say what you don't like, what you like and propose how you see the mod and the compress file be named. 

 

Right now, from the feedback we got, including yourself, there is a difference between the name of the compress file we download and the name of the package.

 

The compress file can use the way that is proposed. This will sort the files in your download folder and it will be easy for people to know if they already download it. The team name can be removed as you said, apart for publicity sake, it is already written in the web page of the mod.

 

Someone in the Project Akar thread proposed to put Akar (or whatever special mod is needed) in the mod name to identify it work with it.

 

Starting from my suggestion and people feedback, the compress file can be:

 

001_[Offline-Online]_[special mod name]_modtype_modname_modversion_moddate.Rar

 

As for the mod/package name, your idea is very good. It have to be short for mods manager and easy to see and to sort in the simcitydata folder. No versioning so when people not using mods manager copy an update of the file package in the simcitydata folder, it will replace the one already there.

 

So your suggestion can now be: 

 

001_[Offline-Online]_[special modname needed]_modType_modName.package

 

Why ? Because some people will not use Akar and they will want to use the standalone mod. So we have to tell which one work with Akar and the stand alone one.

 

This is a work in progress. Your idea is as good as mine. The point is to find a way people and modders will agree the most. It is not a competition on who will win his point and beat the other. It is for all of us.

 

You have to remember all this is new for everybody. Simcity Offline is only 4 months old and see how many mods are now available in less than 2 months. And it will grow and fast in the following months. That's why we have to resolve this before it get out of hands.

 

Pinky!

 

And the point I am saying is that your suggestion, along with Xoxide, etc, are way to long with information no one needs or wants. Maybe you modders want it and it makes sense to you but the file name is way too long for anyone to really care about. At the end of the day, the regular person using a mod doesn't care what the file name is called; so long as it makes sense and isn't a huge file name. Am I being blunt? Yes. I will reference the date again and why it is useless. Right click on a file and go to properties... A date is listed as to when it was last modified...Same thing with something like the team name... What is the point of listing the team name in the name of the mod file itself? Sorry but that is a little bit arrogant... If the modders are not happy with their names being plastered all over the mod description page, then why are they even modding? I specifically made mention to those two things because they are not needed for the file name itself.

 

However, I get a very condescending reply in terms of adding dates to something like the download page versus the file name:

All changes marked in change log. Noted since day one.

Well great, because that helps just about no one when it comes to them looking at that download page... Is someone really going to be looking at both pages to verify which file was changed? Nope. Not even that though, it doesn't specifically list each individual download file that was modified all the time. That was the reasoning behind adding dates to the download page itself rather than the file name... Something once again, will change and it will only hurt people who don't use a mod manager.

 

The bigger issue as to why I don't want a version number is simple, people want to just drag and drop the file in and have it overwrite the old one. If you include a mod version, it will obviously be changing. Since the mod manager we have is somewhat hard to use, most people will not use it so they will be manually installing the files. Which you have also listed.

 

I'm not saying your idea is bad, I am just saying it provides information that is not needed and I explained why that information is not needed. Wouldn't you want to have an explanation as to why? I would.

 

At the end of the day, it isn't about the modders, it is about changing the experience for the person installing the mod - for the better. Hate to break it to you all but that is how it should be and that is the attitude that needs to be changed. Making the mod is one thing, actually installing the mod is another. You are best to assume the person installing the mod knows absolutely nothing about it or how to use it. Directions need to be clear and concise - which sometimes they are not. SimTropolis is not NexusMods... It is about as unfriendly to people wanting to install mods as it can be... If you design your mod description page, mod downloads page, etc, as newb friendly as possible, things like a naming scheme mean little at the end of the day because the information you will need in the file name will be very little. That was also another reason why I said you all were putting too much time into the naming scheme of the files... Make it something very simple that makes sense and will overwrite the previous file. Boom, done!

 

You don't need to be democratic about this... Make an executive decision on the naming scheme and be done with it...

[Blackkatt 18]

[Stormy2014 1]

I've found that some mods need to be loaded before others to prevent startup crashing. I can't recall exactly which ones have had issues for me, (I add and remove mods every couple of days lately) but my SimCityData folder is full of files now that have leading letters such as AzBudgetDataInGovernmentPanel.package .. the "Az" part being added by me to stop a crash that occurred. So now when I add a mod, if it crashes the game, instead of assuming it's a broken mod I take the file and start adding leading letters to it, changing the load order, until I figure out where in the order it needs to be to prevent that crash. It doesn't work 100% of the time, as some mods are just completely incompatible, but I would say about an 80% success rate in getting mods to coexist and not crash the game.

 

Edit: Sorry, this was a reply to Blackkatt. I hit the quote button but it didn't seem to take.