Ploppable vs. Growable Buildings

[thirstydeer 4]

I've been looking at downloading some nice commercial and residential structures from the exchange and a number of them are one or the other (ploppable or growable), and some offer both options.  I assume ploppable means if you have the money for it you place it in the city, and growable means that it will erect itself just like other buildings in the right zoning.  How does jobs fit in to it though?  If I add a ploppable structure that has, say 200 jobs, in it does that mean right away the residential demand will increase to match that need?  I guess what I"m asking is how do these two types of structures deal with the jobs and demand aspects?

[Compdude787 916]

Ploppables are good for building a CBD in the way you want it to look. They basically are buildings you can "plop" down manually. Growables are buildings that grow on their own in your zones, provided you have the right demand and desirability for the building.

 

You should be careful about plopping a bunch of buildings that have jobs because they can mess with your demand. It is not recommended to plop residential buildings because they tend to abandon soon after you plop them. Just let your residential buildings grow on their own; that's how the game is meant to operate.

[CapTon 592]

Alright now we're in the right place.

 

I'm pretty sure it works out this way: when a building you have downloaded has either grown or you have plopped it, and it has a set number of jobs, I believe that whenever the population grows, the new citizens of your city will go and fill up that building with jobs (based on density and whatnot) until it is filled. Then the citizens will move on to the next available building.

[thirstydeer 4]

Ok that information helps, thanks.

I like the idea of using them for the CBD (why does this site use so many acronyms) so I can shape the look of it.  Now in terms of zoning for these buildings, I see in the item description that it takes up a certain amount of space, lets say 4x6 tiles.  Does that mean when I choose high dense commercial that I click and drag 4x6 (which creates numerous smaller boxes in there with the ">" symbol in them, or does it have to be one large single box with only one ">" in it?

[Cheddar 119]

If you zone a 4x6 block, it will break it up into smaller blocks. Pressing CTRL while zoning will create one solid zone block, making it easier for larger zone size buildings to grow. Of course, the game will manually group up separate zone blocks into one block provided you have the demand and desirability for the building.

[thirstydeer 4]

If you zone a 4x6 block, it will break it up into smaller blocks. Pressing CTRL while zoning will create one solid zone block, making it easier for larger zone size buildings to grow. Of course, the game will manually group up separate zone blocks into one block provided you have the demand and desirability for the building.

 

Are there Maxis default lots that size the game will erect or only these custom ones are made that big?

[Cheddar 119]

I do believe there are no Maxis buildings of that size. The biggest Growable Maxis building that I know of is a 6x6 commercial mall. 4x6 and 6x4 are rather common for custom high-rises.

[Bones1 96]

If you use control-zone to make deep lots, then only buildings that are the same depth you zoned will grow. It's probably best to stick to zones that are 4-deep, not more.

 

There are no residential lots bigger than 4x4, except for some low-density R$$$ mansions that are 4x5 and 4x6. (Basically, they're the same mansions that grow on smaller lots, but they can also fill up very big lots too.)

 

CS$ lots are usually small, with the only exception being the 4x4 Willmott Drive-In. So, nothing bigger than 4x4.

 

In CS$$, the only lots bigger than 4x4 are
Lee Shopping Mall (6x6, 6x5, and 6x4 lots)
Harris Galleria (5x4)
Multiplex 13 (5x2, 3x5)

In CS$$$, there are
Bilyk Galleria (5x4)
Grand Hotel (5x2)
Andrews' Fashion Centre (6x4, 6x5, and 6x6 lots)

 

There are a couple of CO$$ lots that are bigger than 4x4.
Fisk Insurance can sit on a 5x4 lot.
McClellan Inc. can sit on a 4x5 lot.

 

There are no CO$$$ lots bigger than 4x4. Strange, but true.

Of course, some of the buildings I listed above will also grow on smaller lots, but the bigger lots have more decorations and stuff.

So the largest lot you need is 6x6. That might be formed automatically from back-to-back 3-deep lots. Or you can use control-zone to zone it yourself. It might never grow in the area you want, though.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

A big commercial building with jobs will raise hell with the commercial demand.  Some time is needed before the simulation can assimilate the effects.

[jmsepe 2,038]

If you plop buildings they greatly affect your demand, eg. plopping a very large commercial building with thousand jobs in the start of the game will greatly decrease your commercial demand and on the reverse, greatly increase your residential demand. I don't find the logic with it though since if the city/region itself cannot support the plopped building, it will go vacant and all stats go back to normal. That is why it is important to start having ample residential supply first before plopping any huge commercial building. 

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Amen.  I only do that when things need shaking up in a fairly big city.

[Bones1 96]

I don't like to use any plopables. Instead, when I want a large building, I use the following trick:

 

1. Make sure you have demand for the type of building you want.

 

2. Zone an area for a large building, such as a 4x4 area using the ctrl-zone method.

 

3. Make sure it has water, and is in a good area for its type (high traffic for commercial, low pollution for residential).

 

4. Cover the zoned area in trees. Lots and lots of trees. This sky-rockets the desirability for the next month, and a few months afterwards.

 

5. Wait a couple of months. The high desirability will often kick-start the largest and most expensive building that can grow there.

 

6. If it doesn't work after 3-4 months, bulldoze the trees and replant them. The high-desirability only lasts for a few months.

 

This usually works to get some really big buildings. Of course, the desirability drops back down to normal after a few months, so often the building won't be completely full (due to lower desirability). That's why you need to put it in an area where it's reasonably good for its type.

[Mcnamara 1]

Ok I have a question:

 

Do landmark buildings affect the commercial demand as well? Like the Chrysler building and the rest?

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Landmarks without jobs are just eye-candy.

[Mcnamara 1]

Landmarks without jobs are just eye-candy.

I understand. You say "without jobs". That means that when I place them, they don't produce them, right? Do landmarks grow on their own?

[MandelSoft 2,769]

The standard landmarks don't grow on their own (unless you have the CAM [Collosus Addon Mod]) and don't generate any jobs.

Also, one other point to note is that plopable residential buildings act very quirky. They easily get abandoned and never get populated ever again. Be very careful with placing these buildings

[thirstydeer 4]

It sounds like it is best to stay away from the custom buildings... or at least the ploppable ones, even the landmark ones that have jobs in them...

 

If I made commercial or residential zone squares big (using ctrl button), say a 4x4 lot, will it stay vacant until something that big grows there, or will smaller properties grow there if the bigger ones don't fast enough?

[jmsepe 2,038]

Both, in my case if I plop a 4x4 lot there are times that a building occupying the whole lot will grow sometimes, the lot will be divided to either to two 2x4 or four 1x4 or even at long period of times nothing grows. I don't know the exact reason for this though perhaps the demand is not high enough.

 

Added: Don't be afraid of plopping buildings, they are the cream of SC4, I high doubt that any player would not have the tendency to plop even once. As long as you have enough demand, there is no big issue. Besides plopping gives you more control of your city, plopping if not the key then is one of the keys in creating aesthetically good cities. 

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

In the start of a game, most players will want to avoid the mansions that grow on 3 x 3 and 4 x 4 low density lots.  These can happen if the game has an opportunity to consolidate these lots from smaller ones.  To avoid this, when starting a new tile I zone residential 2 x 1 and 1 x 1 to prevent consolidations.  The simulator cannot generate a mansion size lot from back to back 2 x 1 lots.

 

One of the things to be aware of is that a grid square is 16 metres on a side.  These are unconscionable sized lots in RL  Finer granularity is needed, but is not available.

[cogeo 960]

I replied to a very similar post recently, and I don't have anything more to add, but quote the reply. Check the links.

 

To see an example of a city built in a "controlled" or "arranged" manner, albeit with growable buildings only, as well as the techniques used, take a look at my posts and Unfortunately these are old posts and the imageshack site has changed its policies since then, so the images can only be downloaded, not viewed directly. More info about the networks layout I used You can see villas grown on slopy (but terraced) terrain (links do work, although thumbs are missing).

[Bones1 96]

In the start of a game, most players will want to avoid the mansions that grow on 3 x 3 and 4 x 4 low density lots.  These can happen if the game has an opportunity to consolidate these lots from smaller ones.  To avoid this, when starting a new tile I zone residential 2 x 1 and 1 x 1 to prevent consolidations.  The simulator cannot generate a mansion size lot from back to back 2 x 1 lots.

 

You can also prevent tiles being consolidated if you zone alternate densities in a grid pattern. For example, to make sure only (medium density) town homes grow on 1x1 lots, and they stay that way, I zone like this:

 

-----------------------------------------

MHMHMHMHMHMHMHMH

HMHMHMHMHMHMHMHM

-----------------------------------------

 

Where --- is a road, M is a 1x1 medium density residential tile, and H is a 1x1 high density residential tile.

 

The game will not consolidate zones if they are different densities, so this forces only 1x1 lots to grow and stay as 1x1 lots.

 

I presume that zoning 1x2 lots, alternating different densities, would prevent the high-wealth 4x4 lots from growing too. The only issue is that you'd have to zone some medium density zones, so you could end up with 1x2 buildings of some medium density growing.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Quite true.  The game will only consolidate like lots.

[thirstydeer 4]

So what would you recommend the size of blocks be in the following zones:

 

1. high residential (maybe 4x4?)

 

2. high commercial (maybe 6x6 to accommodate the many custom buildings needing that size?)

 

3. high industrial (4x2, 4x4?)

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

So what would you recommend the size of blocks be in the following zones:

 

1. high residential (maybe 4x4?)

Depends on what you mean by high.  High density lots have to be on the order of 3 x, 4 x, or 5 x.  High density neighbourhoods of low density lots are another matter.  However in both cases I recommend blocks of four to six lots per block.

 

2. high commercial (maybe 6x6 to accommodate the many custom buildings needing that size?)

Dealing with a CBD, take a look at RL.  You'll find that blocks can be long or short depending on the geography.  It becomes a matter of judgement and sometimes convenience.

 

3. high industrial (4x2, 4x4?)

Generally speaking, I don't allocate individual industrial lots.  I gust zone a nice big pod and let the game decide.

[thirstydeer 4]

"Dealing with a CBD, take a look at RL."

 

What do you mean take a look at RL?  What is RL?

[MushyMushy 3,617]

The acronym RL means Real Life.

Moose was saying study pictures of real life cities' CBDs. Like NYC, London, Hong Kong, Dubai, and Memphis to name a few.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Amen.  Toronto's King and Bay Sts. area is a good example.  The block from Queen street to King Street along Bay is not exactly short.  But from King to Wellington is a short hop.

[Shark7 118]

As a general rule I use ploppable buildings sparingly, and Plops with jobs even more so.  There are some that make sense, like some of the restaruant and fast food plops (example: since I live in an area that literally has a Dairy Queen in every town, I tend to use the DQ ploppable in all my cities).  Skyscraper plops with jobs I really do avoid (and I actually delete most of those lots from my plugins folder when it has both plop and grow versions) though there are 1 or 2 I use occasionally.

 

On the other hand, LM plops with no jobs I'm more likely to use.  I get the look I want, without really messing up the in game economy.  Or at least it doesn't have detrimental effects that I have noticed yet.

 

I also like to use the ploppable buildings by SimGoober (specifically the churches) to make it look a bit more familiar to me (pretty much a church on every street-corner).

 

Anyway, that's my thoughts on ploppable vs growable.  Given the choice I prefer to grow my cities, but some things almost require me to plop them.