Light rail modding help

[Andreas Roth 607]

Well, if you can't get el-trains to run on ground rail, what about making e-train and tram models that look exactly the same? Sure, we can't make them visually go up and down from one level to another - which would look very cool, needless to say - but at least we can have a mass transit system with uniform look and feel.

[+Guest]

its lookin great so far
when do you think will come out?

good job hope to see more

[Yajimari21 0]

i cant wait till this comes out

[mikeseith 457]

Well folks, this project seems to have gone beyond me and my modding skills. Seems I can't get a diagonal lot set up right. Ah well. I will still lurk around in the shadows and offer any help I can.

Trumpets, I have the files that Daeley was working on last week. If he hasen't mailed them to you, I could. I don't think Daeley would mind (I hope). Come to think of it, it was before he was using the el train as a parent group though. Let me know if you want them.

Anyway, I made some large subway and bus stations that are 3 tiles deep and 1 tile wide each. The prop that is used as the building on each lot is 3X3. a special light rail station can be placed next to them and you can have a large multi-modal transit center. I figure this is where I can make my contributions. Pictures are hosted off site.





as you can see it looks like 1 large building with a continuous overhead walkway. I am planning matching rail and el-rail stations so you can mix and match. Also worked on a new overlay texture for the stations. Maybe they can be used for the rest of the project?



as you can see they match up with the default rails better.

Hope you have a breakthrough trumpets. If not, there are other ways to make this work.

We should have a beta light rail ready in about 2 weeks I guess (give or take a month).

[xannepan 513]

I think maybe andreas roth's idea is not to bad... maybe the connection-piece for ground-to-el can be modded in such way that this piece spawns a el-train (modded as a tram) once a groudn tram goes in. If the visual effect is a problem maybe the connection piece can (the BAT model) can have a roof or something to hide the actual transition rail.

BTW at sometime i suggested using a flat BAT model to change the groudn texture... but forget about that.. it will only work on completely flat terrain. Once there is a slope it is not possible to get it oriented to that (not even with the proper settings in the plugin manager). Puzzle pieces may be the solution. What CAN be done in this way is to have plopable electrified rail properties.

[Max 7]

I has here a good link for the Tram:
http://home.arcor.de/simcityportrait/japan.htm

This is a German site!

[wolves100a 0]

Date:8/21/2004 5:15:38 AM
Author:Max

I has here a good link for the Tram:
http://home.arcor.de/simcityportrait/japan.htm

quote>

Were you thinking of the heavy rail to el train?

[Daeley 46]

T7T, I can mail you the files I got so far if you'd like me too...

 

Now I don't really know if there's any relation between what I'm doign with automata and what you are doing with transportation. When you say you can't get eltrain to work on normal network, do you mean you can't see the trains, or do you mean you can't get passengers on them? I'm assuming you meant the second, in which case I wouldn't really know how to solve that.

 

Now normally I would expect that traffic has an influence on automata, but not the other way around... however, if for some reason automata do have an influence on traffic I can explain this... you see, train and eltrain have a property Layer filter which means they can't spawn at any other layer. Ground trains have this set to 0x00 and eltrains to 0x0A. I have defined the trams (in LUA) the same as eltrains, but in their exemplay they have layer set to 0x00. Not sure if it matters, as the stations are still set to regular train stations...

 

edit: on second thought, that's probably wrong... You should know that the way these trams are set up is purely cosmetical, each station will spawn a set amount of trams, undependant of the traffic. And a really annoying thing I just noticed is that the game engine will put trains on tracks if there's traffic... so the game can spawn heavy trains on the current tram tracks

 

edit2: I did a quick glance at the interchange tutorial by redlotus and something sprung in my mind... do you think it would be possible to create puzzle pieces that would allow ground level elrail traffic? Like I said above, no elrail train would appear on them, but I don't think that's a problem... but you mentioned no corners with puzzle pieces so this might not be possible...

[ardecila 124]

Date: 8/21/2004 1:39:27 PM
Author: Daeley

edit2: I did a quick glance at the interchange tutorial by redlotus and something sprung in my mind... do you think it would be possible to create puzzle pieces that would allow ground level elrail traffic? Like I said above, no elrail train would appear on them, but I don't think that's a problem... but you mentioned no corners with puzzle pieces so this might not be possible...

quote>

Corners with puzzle pieces are perfectly possible. Just create a model and write the paths for it.

[mikeseith 457]

Just an overly simple idea here.

Obviously Maxis did not want the different modes of transport to mingle.

So...maybe we should just concentrate on making this project on ground rails. The way I see it with puzzle pieces, maybe you can make overhead lines anyway with this new system. The same way people have made the different bridge puzzle pieces for roads. Then we keep all the systems separated like maxis wants.

Just an idea I wanted to throw out there.

I just downloaded the interchange tutorial to see if I might be able to learn more to be of more help. After my 1st look, I'm not too sure about it .

EDIT:
I am going to try my hand at some more modern trams. Pictures and links would be helpful. I don't get to see many trams here in south florida, we are slaves to the auto here.
Thanks all.

[mikeseith 457]

On a side note. I have eliminated the rail checker from the game. Now there won't be that annoying little vehicle running around our nice little tramways.

Actually the rail checker is still there...you just can't see it anymore.

[theyeti2001 0]

mikeseith: Some modern and old tram pics here, some I've already posted here.

 

http://www.railpage.com.au/modules.php?set_albumName=album52&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php&page=1

 

Yeti.

 

[Daeley 46]

the problem with using the common rail network is that the game will spawn trains on pieces of network that are used... these sorts of traffic generated vehicles are not controlled by LUA (or at least they don't seem to) so I don't know how to edit that... the only way I know of removing this is to completely replace the current trains with trams... however this is not something I'd like to do, so I'm still hoping we can create elrail traffic on ground rail.

[Zeddic 3]

All right... Helsinki has an extensive tram network in central. I just finished reading a story about history of it and there were few nice pictures:

Old tram:

A new one:

A really old one, but still not the oldest used in Helsinki (!):


Here's index of the whole story. You can browse pictures and see how it has developed through over 100 years. But if you want to read the whole story I suggest learning some Finnish before it.
Pictures © HKL

[edcase2k4-thugangel1983 1]

this looks very promising but im sure i will only use such a thing if it is transit and automata enabled

and if there are not other types of trains spawning on their track where i dont want them to..

looks great especially in the shots in the first post in the thread with all the trees along the side

about that big station? i want a big long bus station like is mentioned - with dozens of stops basically under the shelter, is there one already??

[ardecila 124]

Overhead Wire, guys



I can make it longer if you want.

[the7trumpets 10]

Ardecila, you ROCK!!!


Currently we're still trying to sort out what the best way to make this function is, but hopefully that will be done soon. Hopefully you'll be up to the task once we get that sorted out?

ps - different lengths may not be necissary, but curves would be awesome. Don't hurt yourself working on the curves now though, because we're still a little unsure of how tight or wide they will have to be, because of the constraints we're working in modding.


but that looks AWESOME!!!

[threeswept 12]

Ardecila...Great idea on the overhead wires! They would definitely add more realism. May I add an idea...For realism, you might try deleting the top wires. In reality there is only one line parrallel to the tram and not one wire over another wire. The wires are meant to be very flexible for when the tram passes underneath.

EDIT:Forgot to mention, theyeti2001's post, page 4 in the thread, 5th photo down has a nice shot of a well designed overhead line with the supports on one side of the tracks.

[mikeseith 457]

That looks very nice Ardecila. Very nice tram links Yeti and zeddic...if only I knew Finnish...

[theyeti2001 0]

Very nice work there Ardecila. Looks awesome

 

T7T: I tried to follow everything you and Tropod have been up to over the weekend, while I get some of it, most is a little beyond me. So where do you think we are at with this (the big letters with pictures version for a beginner like me....lol)

 

mikeseith: Can't wait to see your modern trams, if it's the same as your BATing skills to date they are gonna look great.

 

Yeti.

 

PS. What happened to the old RTF editor, how do I cut or copy now?

[Edman_123 11]

Date: 8/23/2004 2:27:20 PM
Author: threeswept
Ardecila...Great idea on the overhead wires! They would definitely add more realism. May I add an idea...For realism, you might try deleting the top wires. In reality there is only one line parrallel to the tram and not one wire over another wire. The wires are meant to be very flexible for when the tram passes underneath.


EDIT:Forgot to mention, theyeti2001's post, page 4 in the thread, 5th photo down has a nice shot of a well designed overhead line with the supports on one side of the tracks.

quote>

[threeswept 12]

Edman_123...thanks for your clarification of Portland's unique configuration of the wires. I haven't seen that in the cities I've lived in and travelled to...the reason for me mentioning it. Many of the single wires I see on our trams are also attached to the buildings for support.

And, yes, Ardecila, it's great seeing additional support for this mod and ideas you post in the NAM thread!

[ardecila 124]

I don't know about Portland's wire setup, but the model I have there is a heavyduty version, meant for high speed rail. IRL, tram wires would be thinner and more graceful. Unfortunately, anything thinner than this probably won't show up well in the game. I don't think most people outside of this thread will know the difference, but don't knock the realism unless you know the backstory.

I'm still deciding whether to make this a transit prop (like the avenue medians) or a puzzle piece.

I'll be updating on this in the NAM thread, although it may take a while (school is starting).

[greyveil 37]

I may be out of my league here but this is the way I see it....

we have two seperate issues here and I will try to explain them and possible solutions,

issue 1. Functional accuracy: the transit queries and so forth all function properly.

issue 2. Graphical accuracy: the trains/trams graphically transision from 1 type of
network to the other (also covering UDI compliance).

now I care more about Functionality and I don't use UDI, so my thoughts are going to be bias on these points...

the el to ground and ground to sub transitions created by the japanese batter are not UDI compliant they act as switch points that change the traffic from 1 type to the other, now from what I have read in this post it seams you can spawn a new train at this switch point (sorry I am new at all this), so to me the solution would be to create 2 sets of trams, 1 for ground rail and 1 for el rail (that look identical) and just spawn a tram at the switch point for the type of network you are switching to.

of course this would not be UDI compliant, but it seams it would accomplish the functionality goal
and most of the graphic goals.

I don't mean to over simplify the issue, everyone involved in this project has been outstanding, and I can't wait to add this to my future cities, between this and the NAM...... dang I only thought porn and my ol lady could give me this feeling...

P.S. I am just learning about all this stuff and I am graphically challenged (its the Taurus in me) so don't expect to see any bats from me, but I am trying to learn the programming side of things so I can maybe contribute to projects like this in the future!

sorry for the long post and keep up the great work!!

[Daeley 46]

well those transition lots do not work properly and will probably never work properly... we're also not really out to make them UDI compatible... Also, the route query works just fine with light rail on heavy rail (it's a bit weird on ANT, but it doesn't affect the gameplay)

 

Our results for now are trams running smoothly on their tracks, but unfortunatly - as they are rail traffic - a real train will pop up once in a while, if there are sims traveling over it. This has nothing to do with spawning automata at station, this is an automata simcity spawns because there is rail traffic over that line.

 

So basically it's now up to the transport guys to give us our own network...

[greyveil 37]

here are a few pics to show how the japanese batted train to el transitions work in-game (you probably already know this, but for my own well being and sorry for the pic quality)

[bewilder2 2]

Keep it going guys, it looks great!

[Nickkyobashi 0]

What can I say!!!!

Ive already allocated space for my light rail network in some of my cities.

Seriously.This is one of the most exciting mods ive seen in production.

[edgartamch 1]

Can someone update those lots to change from el to train and train to sub and etc. onto the STEX, and great job on the light rail, when is it gonna release?

[admiralenciso 0]

the ideal thing would be, if el-trains could use the ground rail, but heavy trains couldnt use the el train network! at the moment i have many problems with these japanese conections, because the are used like train stations, and the sims change to an neighbour track going as pedestrians to a track that is not connected to this el-train-to-railway bat's. and also heavy trains from neighbour cities drive into subway. what i need is that sub and el-train use the railway track but heavy trains not! i hope one day someone finds a solution for this problem!