Shifting landfill from one city to the next

[jwsteele 77]

I have been growing my region steadily, and am now at the 156,000 sim mark.  The main large tile I started out with has a flourishing CBD with plenty of C$$ and C$$$ buildings, as well as a large park.  I had placed a landfill not too far from the CBD earlier, and it is killing the ability to build C$$/C$$$/R$$/R$$$, despite the large demand for it, in prime geographic areas.

I have landfill in other regions close by (although not directly connecting) that I would love to do a neighbor deal with.  However, I cannot fully delete the landfill I have.  Deleting the empty landfill just makes things worse, as then I still have landfill I cannot delete, and yet the trash piles up in my CBD, causing buildings to become abandoned.

Any ideas for how I can effectively become a landfill free city, with minimal damage to what already exists?

[Turjan 1,048]

Given your situation, I think your best bet would be something like the It uses air filters like every real-life plant of this type has been doing since the 80's, so it doesn't harm your city. A bit more extreme would be the which is cheaper and produces even less pollution. Bripizza's Incinerator (despite the name also a WTE plant) is even designed to fit between your high wealth dwellings. Your choice.

 

However, a last 2x2 patch of dumped waste can be pretty resistant and take many, many years to disappear (it can also go fast, you never know). In case you need it, use the

 

Edit: Here is a graph with the CO$$$ desirability around the BSC WTE plant. You see that it doesn't have any negative effect.

 

[Metalpuritan 160]

My suggestion:

 

Make all buildings historical the ones you want to keep, any and all of them inside the low desirability zone of the landfill, the big red area you can see from the desirability data view.  Then set up the deal to your neighbor to take all your trash, the maximum allowed through the neighbor deal.  Then lastly take 1 or more waste to energy plants and place them near your landfill, the landfill you want gone.

 

Then turn your game up to cheetah speed, it may take many game years to dissipate but it will go away, if you are not confident of it, you can also place some recycling centers and in the ordinances budget thing you can turn on tire recycling program and paper waste reduction.  Your garbage will be gone before you know it.  Once your landfill is empty, de-zone it, bulldoze your waste to energy plants, bulldoze your recycling centers and turn off the tire recycling and paper waste reduction ordinances.  

 

Let the simulation run, place some parks and trees and the desirability should come back after some years, if it does not you could place a water purification facility and some schools temporarily until it does come back then just bulldoze those too when the desirability reaches an optimal point.  

 

The reason I suggested earlier you make your current buildings historical is because of the added pollution created by the waste to energy plants, I am not sure I could guarantee your current building's safety if you do not lock them down.

 

I have never grown a CBD right next to a landfill, but I have gotten rid of and moved plenty of landfills using this method.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Best solution to landfills is to stop using them.  There are lots on the STEX that will definitely help with this.  I like the PEG garbage dock when I have waterfront.  For a really sloppy city, you might need a couple of these.  If I have no coast-line I try to export garbage through neighbour deals, but if worst comes to the worst, there is always the Black Hole Garbage Incinerator.

[infamousjbe 592]

I've always used the technique of removing all roads that touch the landfill, then occasionally plant trees around the area surround the landfill (when possible). It can take some time, but it will go away eventually.

 

There are a good number of refuse removal options available to download that do more than a fine job of removing trash, with little to no negative effects. And also without really feeling like you're "cheating" the system.

 

Now if there was a way of having one tile be able to soak up the trash from the entire region, I would actually deal with the trash as apposed to "making it disappear".

 

 

 Once your landfill is empty, de-zone it, bulldoze your waste to energy plants, bulldoze your recycling centers and turn off the tire recycling and paper waste reduction ordinances. 

Not sure if it's a bug in my game, but it doesn't give me the ability to de-zone the landfill. I have to re-zone (R,C,or I) before I can de-zone the land.

[Metalpuritan 160]

I've always used the technique of removing all roads that touch the landfill, then occasionally plant trees around the area surround the landfill (when possible). It can take some time, but it will go away eventually.

 

There are a good number of refuse removal options available to download that do more than a fine job of removing trash, with little to no negative effects. And also without really feeling like you're "cheating" the system.

 

Now if there was a way of having one tile be able to soak up the trash from the entire region, I would actually deal with the trash as apposed to "making it disappear".

 

 

 Once your landfill is empty, de-zone it, bulldoze your waste to energy plants, bulldoze your recycling centers and turn off the tire recycling and paper waste reduction ordinances. 

Not sure if it's a bug in my game, but it doesn't give me the ability to de-zone the landfill. I have to re-zone (R,C,or I) before I can de-zone the land.

If your landfill is empty you can de-zone it, the tool is in the waste management menu.  It must be blank though, no trash or it won't work.  I believe the other de-zone tools will work as well.

[infamousjbe 592]

If your landfill is empty you can de-zone it, the tool is in the waste management menu.  It must be blank though, no trash or it won't work.  I believe the other de-zone tools will work as well.

 

 

Hmm, Since I usually use hotkeys (V) for the de-zone, that would be why. Can you access the refuse de-zone by holding either Ctrl or Alt, like with some of the other hotkeys?

[Metalpuritan 160]

 

If your landfill is empty you can de-zone it, the tool is in the waste management menu.  It must be blank though, no trash or it won't work.  I believe the other de-zone tools will work as well.

 

 

Hmm, Since I usually use hotkeys (V) for the de-zone, that would be why. Can you access the refuse de-zone by holding either Ctrl or Alt, like with some of the other hotkeys?

 

I don't know, never used any hot keys, I have WAY too much CC for hotkeys.  I can't tell you the last time I used any maxis civics, maxis roads or maxis utilities.  I don't even need to use the zoom hotkeys(Before I got the .dat packer I had to use the hotkeys) as I have .dat packed my plugins folder, I can just use my mouse wheel to zoom in and out.

[infamousjbe 592]

I can't tell you the last time I used any maxis civics, maxis roads or maxis utilities.  I don't even need to use the zoom hotkeys(Before I got the .dat packer I had to use the hotkeys) as I have .dat packed my plugins folder, I can just use my mouse wheel to zoom in and out.

 

 

 

Having to select mayor menu, then civics menu, then either this or that, to achieve what it takes me one button to do, seems excessive clicking IMO. Of course this doesn't pertain to CC since there's no way to assign hotkeys, but for basics like bulldoze, dezone, or select zone type is quicker than using the UI menu tree system. Plus, I like to play in full screen mode as much as possible, so my menu is minimized till I need something without a hotkey, but then right back to full once it's selected.

 

Also take in consideration that with the laptop is in my lap, hand placement is right there anyways from typing.

 

Not sure what the dat packer has to do with using your mouse wheel to scroll the zoom, why would this have any relation? Any mouse with a scroll wheel should be able to do that by default. I made sure to grab myself a mouse that has a scroll wheel that can release itself from the clicking. This makes scrolling through long menus so much better than having to repeatedly scroll down. Just takes one flick and it'll scroll all the way to the bottom of long lists of CCs.

 

The only hotkey I wish I knew and haven't done the research to see if it's even there, but I need to know the hotkey for water pipes. Having to repeatedly access water pipes through the menu is such a pain in the rear.

[Superbacon 380]

You can always try the Hyperspace Garbage Disposal. Costs a TON to build but it'll handle all your trash very quickly.

[Metalpuritan 160]

 

Not sure what the dat packer has to do with using your mouse wheel to scroll the zoom, why would this have any relation? Any mouse with a scroll wheel should be able to do that by default. I made sure to grab myself a mouse that has a scroll wheel that can release itself from the clicking. This makes scrolling through long menus so much better than having to repeatedly scroll down. Just takes one flick and it'll scroll all the way to the bottom of long lists of CCs.

 

 

If I was just running my plugins folder in raw form my game would lag like crazy, zooming in and out with the mouse wheel would take up to like 5-10 seconds to register, but the function keys would work much faster.  With my plugins folder .dat packed EVERYTHING works awesome.  I even had a problem with my menus, I would click to open a menu(especially my landmarks and parks menus) and it would take up to 5 seconds for those to load as well, of course again with my plugins compressed that also works normally.  I have hundreds of plugins in my landmarks and hundreds more in my parks menu.

 

Every now and then I get a chance to appreciate having my plugins folder compressed, from time to time I add a new batch of CC to my plugins and when I get X(whatever I feel like is too much) I will replace my compressed plugins folder with my non-compressed backup folder and test the new CC, and once the testing is done, I will save it as a backup and compress another copy of it and delete the old one and the old backup, during that testing phase I am instantly reminded how good it is to compress the plugins folder(for my 3.5 gig plugins folder anyway).

 

back on topic... I cannot use the garbage disposal lots, I know a lot of people do, but I just cannot bring myself to do that(personally), it feels like cheating to me as it feels like I remove challenge from the game, challenge in that I must find a place to put it all and I must find ways to build around it, I don't even use the maxis W2E plant for this reason.  Anything that removes challenge from the game, as such, I personally consider it cheating, that is just me though and would never accuse anyone else of doing it(it probably feels like I just accused a bunch of people of cheating, I assure you I mean no offense by it), that is just my personal preference.

 

I would have mentioned your way except for my personal beliefs on the matter get in the way.  I just want to make sure that people get to hear ALL of the options available to them as there is no way for us to be certain of what their play style might be.

[infamousjbe 592]

If I was just running my plugins folder in raw form my game would lag like crazy, zooming in and out with the mouse wheel would take up to like 5-10 seconds to register, but the function keys would work much faster.  With my plugins folder .dat packed EVERYTHING works awesome.  I even had a problem with my menus, I would click to open a menu(especially my landmarks and parks menus) and it would take up to 5 seconds for those to load as well, of course again with my plugins compressed that also works normally.  I have hundreds of plugins in my landmarks and hundreds more in my parks menu.

 

 

Well that gives me something to think about. Things have been getting a bit choppy on the laptop, maybe packing what I have so far for CC will help speed things up a bit. 

 

(for my 3.5 gig plugins folder anyway).

 

Very nice. Currently only half that size. Since my region is still in it's early stages, have yet the need to install mid/high rises, so I know there is still more dl'ing to come...... but ya just have to have it now a days. An un-modded SC4 image looks like SC3000 to me now. It's so apples and oranges.

 

 

back on topic... I cannot use the garbage disposal lots, I know a lot of people do, but I just cannot bring myself to do that(personally), it feels like cheating to me as it feels like I remove challenge from the game, challenge in that I must find a place to put it all and I must find ways to build around it, I don't even use the maxis W2E plant for this reason.  Anything that removes challenge from the game, as such, I personally consider it cheating, that is just me though and would never accuse anyone else of doing it(it probably feels like I just accused a bunch of people of cheating, I assure you I mean no offense by it), that is just my personal preference.

 

You're more of a purist than I, and I always thought myself rather strict. If I could use lrg city tiles, I certainly wouldn't be so inclined to use magically disappearing garbage, but it's such a pain the more smaller tiles that make up the region. It would be awesome if the track enabled, or dock garbage disposal lots could actually transport the garbage to another city, then it would be rather enjoyable to have a single city mange the regions garbage 

 

I would have mentioned your way except for my personal beliefs on the matter get in the way.  I just want to make sure that people get to hear ALL of the options available to them as there is no way for us to be certain of what their play style might be.

 

Couldn't argue with that. The more info, the better the knowledge. 

[Turjan 1,048]

I cannot use the garbage disposal lots, I know a lot of people do, but I just cannot bring myself to do that(personally), it feels like cheating to me as it feels like I remove challenge from the game, challenge in that I must find a place to put it all and I must find ways to build around it, I don't even use the maxis W2E plant for this reason.

 

See, and I consider how the game handles landfills completely unrealistic. If they filled up that quickly with such a low population in real life, our ancestors would have suffocated in their own waste ages ago. Also, I have lived in a city that had no place to put any garbage for the most time of my life, and those waste-to-energy plants that I depicted in post #2 of this thread look pretty much like what I had been seeing for many years (people got a bit upset when they learned that the recycling paper they collected was used to keep the emissions of these plants clean ).

 

At one point, the city could strike a deal to export part of its waste, which was cheaper than burning it. But even here the game fails, as it's usually a bad deal to offer services for other cities, unlike in real life. Waste deals basically only work if you don't play the city that's on the receiving end. The game's challenge in this area looks like bad mechanics to me, so I don't mind altering this. The WTE plant I mentioned first looks like the best fit for a realistic solution to me.

 

I don't have much of a problem with the standard game WTE plant either. If you put it into a tile corner and plant a few trees around it, it's usually quite benign. I have stopped using landfills, though.

 

Of course, all of this is not meant as criticism of your play style. In the end, we all want to enjoy our games.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

The water pipe key is 'i'.

[cogeo 960]

To "shift" your landfill to a neighbour city, you first have to remove all road/street access to the landfill (so no new garbage enters the ladfill), and then wait for the garbage to decompose (it's slow, but this is for "realism", otherwise you can install the Landfill Eraser Mod which makes trash disappear immediately). And of course you also need to replace the capacity lost (build another landfill or other garbage disposal facility, in another, or the same city). Please not that other garbage disposal utilities (W2E, Incinerators, Recycling centers etc), unlike in SimCity 3000, won't take the garbage out of your landfills, so the best you can expect is that their capacity will be exceeding your city's needs and thus no garbage will be entering the landfill (but as said above, you can ensure this by removing all road access).

 

About Recycling Centers, I would rather say don't bother. They are awfully modded (expensive, and have very little effect). More specifically they cost $350/mo for reducing the garbage produced by 25,000 sims by 20%. This is some... 18 tons (although with certain ordinances it may be slightly increased), ie a whopping $20/ton! By far the most expensive utility in SC4!!! So recycling centers do nothing but wasting your money. I have to note that it wasn't like that in SC3000. There they cost $350/mo as well, but instead reduced the garbage produced by 50,000 sims by 30%. At a cost of $6.5/ton, it was an expensive but viable option for a "green" mayor. In SC4 the cost is simply prohibitve. So don't use them, unless you mod them heavily. If you have achieved a significantly better performance (through ordinances) than the one shown above (18 tons/mo) please post.

 

Some players have mentioned cheating. Well, there are certainly cheaty lots (with very low running costs or pollution), but I would also like to mention cheaty techniques. First off, the "asynchronous" simulation is a cheat in itself, if you have a grabage export deal. You send your neighbours your garbage (OK, you pay for this), but their W2Es don't get older, their landfills don't become full, and they get any (additional) pollution or other undesirable effects - they are not actually getting ANY garbage. Then you open the neighbour city (for playing/running it) and you can cancel (or reduce to the minimum) the garbage import deals (if you also have facilities other than landfills, you can reduce the deals amount so that it just utilises your capacity) so that no garbage enters your landfill. The region I'm playing now, has over 200,000 res, 11 cities (the biggest has 60,000) and is easily served by two small landfills (4x4 and 4x5 tiles large) which are both less than 50% full. Another "cheat" can be the game's wrong calculation of landfills' running costs. Landfills, contrary to what many players believe, aren't cheap to run, at about $3.3/ton (if you disagree about this number, I can discuss it in more detail) they are actually one of the most expensive utilities, second only to recycling centers, and far more expensive than W2E plants ($0.5-1.5 per ton, if you count in the power generated, depends on the price of electricity and valuation of pollution). However the game makes an apparent error in calculating the landfill's cost when signing a deal, if the city importing the garbage has much empty landfill space. You can sign deals costing you pennies, eg $0.20/ton, a price far below the real utility cost. The exporting city can benefit from this deal (getting rid of the garbage at ridiculously low prices), while the importing city can simply terminate the import deal when it is about to be played, thus avoiding to worsen its finances in the future (when the landfill gets full, incurring a hefty maintenance cost). And this (exploiting a bug) is a cheat, isn't it? I'm kinda disappointed with this bug, and await my cities to grow bigger, so that the bug affects the deals (relatively) less and less. I'm not going to build new landfills, instead I'll build some W2E plants (I may build some small landfills though, acting as "buffers", because it may not be easy to sign deals equaling your capacities exactly, and I like getting the praise for the clean streets).

[Bdub01 201]

Ah yes, that is a bit of a bugger I admit.  For starters I always put the landfill near the corner of my cities, then when I don't want it anymore I remove all roads to the landfill, and build the wast to management plant as well as recycling centers for every 50k pop I have in the city.  It takes a minute, but the landfill does start emptying out, and as it emptys I will dezone it.

[jwsteele 77]

Awesome!  Thanks for all the advice.  For whatever reason I made the assumption that W2Es pulled garbage OUT of a landfill, which is apparently completely incorrect.  So, I'll just built more W2Es for now, and delete road access to the landfill.

[Turjan 1,048]

At least everything else except the last 2x2 disappears from a landfill quickly if you build enough W2E plants, even with road access.