Genetically modified people

[Duke87 1,070]

The future has arrived. They are real. These babies have three biological parents.

 

This, naturally, stirs up a lot of controversy about ethics. Ultimately, though, while the concept seems freaky to a lot of us now, I predict that eventually it will become more widely accepted and normal. We are of course a long way away from this being a common commercial venture, but once it's proven possible it's only a matter of time.

[KonstantinII 1,106]

^^ I think that's a bad idea.

[Bdub01 201]

Well, whether we approve of it or not, it's going to happen. So lets see how it will be able to help or hurt humankind. It's going to take several decades to see how it's going, if the children are just about three years old.

One foreseeable problem I see immediately is who has custody if there are three or more parents in the mix.

[Wiimeiser 434]

Fun fact: Our intelligence is actually decreasing at about the same rate our height is increasing. They say GM will stop that, or else we'll end up like Idiocracy, or worse, monkeys.

[LexusInfernus 908]

Fun fact: Our intelligence is actually decreasing at about the same rate our height is increasing. They say GM will stop that, or else we'll end up like Idiocracy, or worse, monkeys.

Our inteligence has been increasing for the past few decades (see Flynn Effect). That has indeed stopped or slowed down and in some cases even reversed. But to make the prediction that we end up like monkeys or a society of drooling idiots is a little silly. Besides, intelligence has only partly a genetic basis. The sort of food you eat, the amount of time you exercise and other environmental factors also play a huge role in how intelligent you end up being. And well, guess what our society at the moment is doing. Eating loads of junk food and not getting nearly enough exercise. Yep, that is going to have negative consequences for your children's intelligence. 

 

As for gene modification, Im fine with it. A good way to prevent a lot of nasty genetic disorders, making people more predisposed to being healthy, reducing the risk of alcoholism, drug abuse and gambling. Those are all positive things. I honestly can't think of any bad things, aside that some people may find it perhaps a little unethical. Then again, we have always been improving ourselves with artificial means, this is just the next step. 

[jacobhinds 36]

Fun fact: Our intelligence is actually decreasing at about the same rate our height is increasing. They say GM will stop that, or else we'll end up like Idiocracy, or worse, monkeys.

I'm of the opinion that intelligence doesn't really exist, or that the differences between people are far too small to measure. IQ tests are a bit silly; as a child I was far better at them than my sister and I still am, but she was the one who ended up doing far better in school. they're sort of geared towards middle-class first-world males, and the fact that they were invented just before world war II in the age of eugenics should say something about how biased they are.

 

OT: obviously this is the daily mail so it shouldn't be taken too seriously, but I can see why somebody would want something like this; say to have a child that looks like them even given a history of hereditary disease or whatever. the problem, though, comes when you get parents who want tall aryan children, or parents who somehow think they can create super-genius children by mixing the DNA of two medicine graduates.

 

as for the flynn effect, we're just getting better at IQ tests due to urbanization etc. if there was a hunter-gatherer IQ test I reckon we would all fail horribly.

[LexusInfernus 908]

I'm of the opinion that intelligence doesn't really exist, or that the differences between people are far too small to measure. IQ tests are a bit silly; as a child I was far better at them than my sister and I still am, but she was the one who ended up doing far better in school. they're sort of geared towards middle-class first-world males, and the fact that they were invented just before world war II in the age of eugenics should say something about how biased they are.

 

OT: obviously this is the daily mail so it shouldn't be taken too seriously, but I can see why somebody would want something like this; say to have a child that looks like them even given a history of hereditary disease or whatever. the problem, though, comes when you get parents who want tall aryan children, or parents who somehow think they can create super-genius children by mixing the DNA of two medicine graduates.

 

as for the flynn effect, we're just getting better at IQ tests due to urbanization etc. if there was a hunter-gatherer IQ test I reckon we would all fail horribly.

 

IQ tests take years to develop and require a lot of research before they are actually used. Indeed, they are geared towards the average western person, and not just males. The difference between males and females in intelligence is small and balances each other out (males are slightly better at math, females are slightly better at language). And trust me, there is a major difference in intelligence between people if you look at IQ scores and their intellectual capacity. Just look at someone with an IQ of 70 and compare that to someone with an IQ of 90 and then compare the IQ of 90 to someone with an IQ of 120. The one with 70 is on the threshold of being mentally challenged and may already have serious difficulties living by themselves. And even simple jobs may already be difficult for them. Someone with an IQ of 90 is just slightly below average. Someone like that is perfectly capable of working, especially if the job requires doing things rather than thinking them up. And then someone with an IQ of 120, they can do university and they are good at theory, abstract thinking and stuff like that. 

 

As for the Flynn effect, I believe it is theorized that it is mostly due to better healthcare and better nutrition, as well as some training in getting tested. However, there is no such thing as 'urban' IQ test or a hunterer gatherer IQ test. Those tests tend to be pretty general. testing things like word knowledge, letters, counting and simple math as well as spatial awareness and the use of shapes. It rather depends on the test. Generally though, what they try to measure is someones problem solving skill, with only the minimal amount of 'school knowledge' required. 

[Bipin 3,402]

Genetic modification, as long as it's done within the ethical boundaries accepted as norms within society is an excellent step forwards. There's absolutely nothing wrong with genetic modification when practiced responsibly; the only thing wrong is the people who oppose genetic modification without legitimate, knowledge on the matter regarding biology or life sciences. You have to keep in mind that genetic modification is no different to drugs in terms of susceptibility to misuse. Furthermore, genetic modification doesn't create the issue of bacterial resistance that virtually all antibacterial drugs are prone to, to some extent, so there's a major plus.

[Alejandro24 575]

Gattaca and Brave New World comming soon to our reality?

 

Is supposed to be that the genetics would help us to cure and prevent diseases, not to have people with three parents, not even to correct and clean our genetics. Oh, well, as Duke87 said this will become more common with the pass of the time, maybe is only this is new and sounds totally strange.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

I have three genetically inherited chronic diseases.  It would be nice to get along without the twenty something drugs I need to take daily to keep going.

[Meg 368]

I have three genetically inherited chronic diseases.  It would be nice to get along without the twenty something drugs I need to take daily to keep going.

 

An excellent point.  This technology could relieve a lot of suffering.

 

When the first "test tube" baby was born, people voiced concerns similar to the ones being raised now.  Nowadays there are so many children born via assisted conception (of one form or another) that people hardly notice.  

 

(An interesting side issue:   In my experience, such children often have medical problems.  Nothing devastating but fairly serious conditions that need to be managed medically.  I would like to see a study on the subject.)

 

Back to genetically modified children . . . the classic sci-fi scenario has several tiers of human beings, based on their modifications.   In theory a race of super-humans could wipe us poor standard people out with no problem.

 

As with any technology, it depends on how it is used.  And we don't really know what we are doing yet.  Yes, we are mapping the human genome.  That doesn't mean we fully understand it.

[LexusInfernus 908]

 

I have three genetically inherited chronic diseases.  It would be nice to get along without the twenty something drugs I need to take daily to keep going.

 

An excellent point.  This technology could relieve a lot of suffering.

 

When the first "test tube" baby was born, people voiced concerns similar to the ones being raised now.  Nowadays there are so many children born via assisted conception (of one form or another) that people hardly notice.  

 

(An interesting side issue:   In my experience, such children often have medical problems.  Nothing devastating but fairly serious conditions that need to be managed medically.  I would like to see a study on the subject.)

 

Back to genetically modified children . . . the classic sci-fi scenario has several tiers of human beings, based on their modifications.   In theory a race of super-humans could wipe us poor standard people out with no problem.

 

As with any technology, it depends on how it is used.  And we don't really know what we are doing yet.  Yes, we are mapping the human genome.  That doesn't mean we fully understand it.

 

Why would they? Just because they are biologically better than us, they are still raised by us, normal humans, they have the same moral imprints, the same ethics as us, so it doesn't mean that they will kill us. If anything, they will simply replace us. That is, normal children will no longer be born at some point, all children will be made through artificial means. 

[hym 358]

Why would they? Just because they are biologically better than us, they are still raised by us, normal humans, they have the same moral imprints, the same ethics as us, so it doesn't mean that they will kill us. If anything, they will simply replace us. That is, normal children will no longer be born at some point, all children will be made through artificial means. 

 

Historically, one of humanity's great qualities is the ability for one group of humans to decide that another group of humans is somehow inferior and thus worthy of extermination.  Although I am reluctant to break out the Hitler references, he is a relevant example of this type of thinking.

[ROFLyoshi 1,760]

 

Why would they? Just because they are biologically better than us, they are still raised by us, normal humans, they have the same moral imprints, the same ethics as us, so it doesn't mean that they will kill us. If anything, they will simply replace us. That is, normal children will no longer be born at some point, all children will be made through artificial means. 

 

Historically, one of humanity's great qualities is the ability for one group of humans to decide that another group of humans is somehow inferior and thus worthy of extermination.  Although I am reluctant to break out the Hitler references, he is a relevant example of this type of thinking.

 

Well I think he had that one tested right in front of his face when a black man beat the supposed German "master race" in the 100m sprint.

I like this idea. Ironing out all the flaws. People don't realise that we have been genetically engineering life for years, such as breeding the best produce, favouring and cultivating plants that adapt best for a particular niche. All we are doing now is accelerating that process. 

[Wiecher 192]

This opens the way for the creation of the 'übermensch'... But we've already started with that. If a woman is pregnant with a disabled baby, she can choose to abort it. And to be honest, I am perfectly fine with that. It's completely natural for us to want our species to be perfect, it's survival of the fittest, and we make ourselves as fit as possible.

I for one hope they make haste with stem-cell research, it will fix all diseases and disabilities we have right now.

 

Of course, we shouldn't do everything that's possible, for ethical reasons. It's already possible to pick your perfect sons and daughters from a glass tube, but we don't do it.

[LexusInfernus 908]

 

 

Historically, one of humanity's great qualities is the ability for one group of humans to decide that another group of humans is somehow inferior and thus worthy of extermination.  Although I am reluctant to break out the Hitler references, he is a relevant example of this type of thinking.

 

Before that works, the genetically engineered super people first need to be the majority. And second, if they are smart, why would they bother? Its pretty resource intensive and also pretty disruptive. It would be much easier for them to just make it so attractive to make super babies rather than regular babies, that it will just take a few generations before normal babies are a thing of the past. 

 

Sure, it is theoretically possible that the super humans come up with an agenda to exterminate every non super human. I just think it is not very likely. Also, I think that within a few decades, we can begin genetically engineer normal people to the point of becoming super humans as well. Or even better, we will simply begin altering our bodies with robotic parts and such. Then it hardly matters anymore if you are born with perfect genes, technology will improve our bodies to such a degree that perfect genes don't matter anymore. We will transcend biology. 

[mrbisonm 1,620]

This is definitively one place where Godmode shouldn't be allowed. Life is not a game nor a toy!

 

mrb

[flatron 83]

second that.

I don't want to see breeded people in my lifetime and I hope that my children and grandchildren won't have to, too. That's only a few steps from creating the Übermensch.

@intelligence and height: I'm 1,95m tall, kind of sporty and the best male student at my school.  [girls are of course better, but I think that's only because teaching nowadays focuses too much on girls' needs, for example formulas and abstract concepts are often replaced by concrete examples ] imho, Intelligence and height are not proportional, neither direct nor indirect.

Btw.: the IQ of an agrarian economist is antiproportional to the size of his crops... (joke: the dumbest farmers grow the biggest potatoes)

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

To me, at least, it won't matter which way this pendulum swings.  I am out of the breeding group now, and won't be around all that much more.  However, if you want to see what GM gone wrong can do for your, dig out Aldous Huxley's Brave New World.  Written in the early 20^th century, this work shows what happens when the wrong group gets the bit in its teeth.

[lhrob 213]

Man trying to play God.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Man trying to play God.

That's a little extreme, don't you think?  If we were not to be playing with genetics, we would never have found out about it.

[LexusInfernus 908]

Man has been trying to play God ever since we started using tools. This is just us setting the next step along the path to godhood. 

[Bdub01 201]

If there were no advancements we would still be using leeches and cutting holes in the top of our heads to release the evil spirits. Not to mention the earth would still be flat, and a solar eclipse would scare us all to pray to the sun to defeat the dragon that was attacking it.

[lhrob 213]

 

Man trying to play God.

That's a little extreme, don't you think?  If we were not to be playing with genetics, we would never have found out about it.

 

 

No, I don't think it's extreme at all.  You don't even know what I had in mind when I said that.  If you don't like my opinion, don't respond to it.  I am entitled to it after all, aren't I?  And why did you not attack Konstantin for his remark about it being a bad idea? 

 

Oh wait, that's right....whenever lhrob opens his mouth and offers an opinion, it must automatically be wrong.  I get it now.  Duhhhh....I should have known better.

 

Carry on with your discussion, everyone.  Sorry I burped and interrupted it.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

 

 

Man trying to play God.

That's a little extreme, don't you think?  If we were not to be playing with genetics, we would never have found out about it.

 

 

No, I don't think it's extreme at all.  You don't even know what I had in mind when I said that.  If you don't like my opinion, don't respond to it.  I am entitled to it after all, aren't I?  And why did you not attack Konstantin for his remark about it being a bad idea? 

 

Oh wait, that's right....whenever lhrob opens his mouth and offers an opinion, it must automatically be wrong.  I get it now.  Duhhhh....I should have known better.

 

Carry on with your discussion, everyone.  Sorry I burped and interrupted it.

 

That one liner begged for a response.  One should not be upset when it gets the expected response.  If one is going to throw one liner's around, it is rather incumbent to say more than just some simple, but exacerbating statement.  The reason one doesn't know what one has in mind is that we are not telepaths.  As for playing God, man always strives for that.  "A man's reach must exceed his grasp or what's a heaven for?"

[lhrob 213]

Sometimes the fewer the words, the better.  I don't always want to get into a debate, but still like to post a personal comment.  It wasn't a "one liner", as if I was baiting someone for a response.  I wasn't expecting any particular response.  That's a presumption on your part.  I was giving my opinion....this is a situation of man trying to play God.  If someone wants to express their simple opinion about something, then so be it.  If they wish to expound upon it, they will.  But please, instead of accusing my opinion of being extreme, perhaps it would have been better if you'd first asked what I meant by my comment.     

 

EDIT:  Toned down my response.

[Flat Raver 59]

Good to hear these news.

 

Regarding the übermensch thing, by the time those type of people are around, we'll have discovered how to genetically alter adult humans. I'm all for that.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Just imagine what will happen to the population if all genetically defined diseases and defects were eliminated.  There are too many people now.  Also, this will never happen without the very much denigrated eugenics program. 

 

The sexual union in the zygote will always produce some randomness.  When it comes right down to it, Schrodinger's cat is riding right along.