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AlexMBrennan

Park and Ride question

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Simple question - how does park and ride work, and how do I make it work?

Specifically, I'd like visitors (both commuters and tourists attending expo events) to leave their vehicle at the city border and take public transport to the destination. That is how things are supposed to work

However, despite perfect bus coverage a lot of vehicle just drive right past the park and ride lots.

Secondly, how exactly is a park and ride garage with capacity of 80 suppose to deal with 15000 event attendees?

Thirdly, how do I stop pedestrians from abusing park and ride lots? It's kinda pointless if they end up overpriced bus stops which take up valuable space.

Finally, am I right in thinking that the bus terminal acts like a giant park and ride lot? Both pedestrians and vehicles seem to enter it to switch to public transport. If so, what's its capacity - the displayed number of people waiting is always zero.

And since we are at it, do buses have a destination or do they roam randomly? I followed a bus on the following route after picking up 3 passengers at the P&R (circled):

34grc6p.png

If I didn't know any better, I'd say that every last bus in the region is dispatched if a single sim wants to take a bus, and they don't seem to be capable of returning to base once the job is done. Seems like a good way of trolling other players.

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I don't seem to see how the Park and Ride really work either, sometimes they do and other times they are useless. I have placed them next to the highway entering my cities and sometimes all the traffic just drives straight past them and they remain empty for the most part, but having said that they seem to work well when placed next to a railway station near to a residential area to get more low wealth Sims to commute.

 

As for the buses you are correct, they all leave the depot to pick up nobody and spend all the time following each other in a Congo line of buses. I wish i was able to set up specific bus routes and limit my buses to them then separate areas of the city could be better served just like in the real world!

 

Jim

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just like in the real world park and ride...i don't use them(in real) so why the sims?

and yes the busses are strange and can work better like in the real world

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I use park and rides in the opposite direction, I placed one closer to the border of a smaller town, with no bus depots. The Sims from the small town go to the park and ride, and wait for the large buses from the neighboring big city to come pick them up to go work over in the bigger city. I've never tried getting them to come into a city to use it like you are trying.

I do agree about this apparent spamming of region busses. I had another town, 10,000 people, and I placed a shuttle bus stop for a little bit of congestion relief. What happened? ALL the larger municipal busses from 3 other large cities invaded my town, and drove in massive loops, sometimes backing up entire blocks with this odd convoy of empty busses. I wish the shuttle and larger bus terminals had a simple "Allow/Prohibit Region Busses" or "Allow/Prohibit Other City Busses" option, so we could selectively decide whether or not to accept other Town's buses. Or, it could be just like the region support for Fire/Police/EMS where we could choose how many +/- buses we wanted to send to another city.

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The whole system is broken right now, so honestly I would avoid using them and buses in general.

 

  1. Park and Rides are less effective than bus stops, because they cost more, take up building space, and can only hold 80 people (bus stops can hold 125 people for cheaper).
  2. Incoming commuters don't drive to Park and Rides and then get on public transportation.
  3. All buses come or no buses come.
  4. Buses turnaround when a stop has people waiting at it. They will also drop people off at stops within the town even though those people got on the bus to leave the town. 
  5. There's no concept of parking in Sim City and very little traffic avoidance logic

 

This game needs to be opened up to Modders immediately. I have grown increasingly bitter about its unfinished state. Server issues seem planned at this point. What kind of game journalists build a city and miss the ridiculous traffic and mass transit behaviors?

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I had hoped that they'd work in the same fashion as the OP stated, where I could place down a mass of park and rides on the first cross street when entering my city, and have all the expo attendees stop there and grab a ride up to the venue, but that doesn't seem to work.  Plus imagine how many of those buildings it would take to accommodate a full venue at only 80 sims per building.

 

Personally, I think it's just one of those "features" that wasn't thought all the way through unfortunately.  Would not be surprised to eventually see a rush hour expansion for this one that tries to fix up things like this as well as adds in mass transit.

 

Buses are just a nightmare.  Once I placed down the UK bus depot, my traffic went to hell with masses of neighbor buses lining the highway waiting to get into my town.  I finally just bulldozed the bus depot as it just made traffic worse instead of better.

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Yeah I like whoever mentioned the conga line of buses. Streetcars do the same thing. I have a corner of town where 300 people have been waiting for the bus for months. Across town buildings that havent had workers for months. Go figure. They need to patch bus and street car behavior pretty badly. I have a couple park and rides at the entrance to my town, one gets 3k plus visitors a day, while the one next to it gets around 40.  Hope they can fix that too. I'm enjoying my free copy of Mass Effect 3 until a few more patches come out.

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The mass transit system is broken. With that said, I thought park and rides are for local people to use and not visitors coming in the city. It would be more appropriate to get on the bus closer to your home and use mass transit across the region than to drive across the region to take mass transit for the last 7 blocks of your trip.

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Almost everything driving related is broken, good thing the game doesn't need good driving AI, or a internet connection or servers that aren't busy to play, or service vehicles not dissapearing on you to play...

 

Anyhow...

 

Park and rides gets the cars off the roads so that would mean less traffic, if only the stupid buses actually worked, like say if we set bus routes, then you can have more buses on certain routes, and more buses at certain times like rush hours or more bus pre events, and post events...but this is The Sims City 2013, so it's dumbed down and not that sophisticated.

 

I kind of make my roads like a winding S, A T section is 3 ways of traffic a S is  2 was my logic

 

I would have all my residents in the S, and at the end of the S that leads to my main road arteries I would line up a bunch of park and rides 4 or 5 so far.

 

Since there is one exit out of the neighbourhood, to where ever they are going in the city I'm forcing them to use the park and rides...(Don't forget to place them on the RIGHT side of the road, I don't think the sims would make a u turn just to use it, but they will turn into if it's in the same direction they are going, but then again I might be giving them more brain cells then they actually have *sigh*

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If I didn't know any better, I'd say that every last bus in the region is dispatched if a single sim wants to take a bus, and they don't seem to be capable of returning to base once the job is done. Seems like a good way of trolling other players.

 

Correct, it works this way for all service \ emergency vehicles, it gets rather annoying when you have 12 garbage trucks head up a dirt road to collect garbage... not only do they all head up there but they all get stuck behind the first truck which stops at every house and then "sigh" when they reach the intersection otw back out 1/2 of them decide to do a Uturn because the game breaking AI tells them its a short cut, how the hell is doing another lap of the dead end street a short cut!.  so instead of turning left or right every second truck dose a uturn that results in another blocky of the street they just cam from!!!

anything that a vehicle has to wait for (even if its only for a split second) will cause said vehicle to attempt a reroute,, 90% of the time it just makes things worse.

 

buses emergency services and any other response vehicle just causes traffic jams because of the Congo lines.. i haven't lost interest yet because i am still learning how some parts of the game work, but F-me traffic is plain stupid...

 

P.S park and ride are best used at city entrances; that is, train stations main road connections, ferry's and airports. try to keep them away from your R zone, unless they work with $$$ residents who normally insist in driving to work.

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I was just thinking about this again...

 

If the park and rides are meant to get cars off the roads, wouldn't it just be better to not use them at all so that the sims don't need to drive their cars at all to the park and ride, instead just use the regular bus stops and in that way they need not even take their vehicles onto the roads at all.

 

Of course this would assume that buses and street cars actually worked properly & you have enough bus stops in good locations so that the sims can simply walk to the bus stop.

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I was just thinking about this again...

 

If the park and rides are meant to get cars off the roads, wouldn't it just be better to not use them at all so that the sims don't need to drive their cars at all to the park and ride, instead just use the regular bus stops and in that way they need not even take their vehicles onto the roads at all.

 

Of course this would assume that buses and street cars actually worked properly & you have enough bus stops in good locations so that the sims can simply walk to the bus stop.

 

********* Warning Wall-O-Text ***********

 

Ha! I was thinking the same way. Here is how I see it. Some sims will use a bus stop. Those that don't you want to get the cars off of the street. A park and ride is a way to do it. Think of them as a filter. Some of my most successful traffic maps were done not by clever road design but by learning to filter traffic.

 

First and foremost people have to learn to balance the job market/commercial market. Balancing the market ensures that everyone is working and has places to go so they are not consistently clogging the streets. The game kicks out workers all at once. They need a place to go. The game also kicks out shoppers. They need a place to go. If you don't balance worker/shopper (not just amount of workers but wealth levels and tech levels) you will have excess cars clogging the roads.

 

With that said the next thing to do is to get rid of the idea that commercial needs to be in a central location. Also get rid of the idea that industry needs to be clustered in a specific location down wind. I will tell you why. When you cluster everything together you are forcing a city full of commuters into those specific areas. Think about 20,000 shoppers hitting the same cluster of roads at once. No road in the game can handle it. No matter how intricate you make your network or what size or density, it will break down and clog up.

 

So if roads cannot sustain that traffic what is there to do? Even if you use mass transit you will still be stuck with a ton of traffic that the roads in game can't handle. So if mass transit isn't the cure what else is there? You have to somehow filter that traffic off the streets asap. After mass transit all you are left with are parks and zoning.

 

All you really have to do is use commercial and industrial buildings to filter traffic. By placing both within your residential, along commute paths or against commute paths you can take cars off the road nicely. Parks and car parks can do the same.

 

If you pay attention to the paths sims take from their buildings you will notice that sims will walk to work and to shop if it is close. That eliminates a bunch of potential traffic on the road and your mass transit system. When those jobs/stors fill up or if they don't use mass transit they have to drive. Once they are in a car they stay there until the get to a destination. From there you can filter some more with car parks since that is considered a destination.

 

Back to zoning. Remember when I said you have to balance the job market? Here is why. If you have an industrial building jobs are created for each wealth class. So if you have an industrial building in a low wealth area you will find that medium and high wealth sims will commute to that building to fill those jobs. Creating another problem. If your medium wealth workers are clear across the map in a cluster, then sims will have to commute clear over to the low wealth area. I mean that all will go there if that is the closest job. Then when that gets filled then on to the next.

 

So not only do you have to manage mixing up the zone types it is also necessary to have different wealth classes nearby each other. Those commercial and industrial building can then keep even more traffic off the road from each class. When those get full then sims are off to the next. There shouldn't be as many but have another industry/commercial near by. The last thing you want is a drive clear across town.

 

You do need to consider is the density of each wealth class. Yet another problem. A low wealth/high density residential building is packed full of sims but a medium wealth/high density building tends to have less. You don't want a mass of low wealth sims in one area using the same roads. The bigger the mass of low wealth sims the more you need to filter the traffic asap. You will find that it takes higher density industry or simply more industry in those areas to do that. Thus separating and spreading that mass of high density low-wealth out. Again can create problems since high and medium wealth sims will commute there. Since medium wealth/high density residential do not have as many sims per building then you will find you will use less industry and more commercial to filter traffic.

 

When you learn to balance industry and commercial needs this all becomes apparent. You will find that your city area does not need that much area for low wealth to take care of the job demand. You will find you will need more area for medium wealth and high wealth. But the downfall is that you won't see as high as population levels as you would with purely low wealth high density. As you practice and perfect you will find that you can push and pull traffic just by tweaking your zones and you will worry less about roads and mass transit.

 

Remember roads are just for increasing/decreasing density levels of your zones. Zoning is what determines what that traffic does when it is on the road. Object is to keep em clear by keeping em near and the flow will go. <--- Probably the stupidest thing I ever typed.

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Some really good points there Epic, already running layouts through my mind because considering I personally don't use a lot of industry working it in should be easy. I am however guilty of taking what little industry I do zone and shoving it in a far off corner making it hard for all classes to get to.

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Some really good points there Epic, already running layouts through my mind because considering I personally don't use a lot of industry working it in should be easy. I am however guilty of taking what little industry I do zone and shoving it in a far off corner making it hard for all classes to get to.

Hence you will get a traffic push to that corner. Working on a design now running blocks of certain wealth classes. Thinning them out with nearby work/shopping. Pushing them through car parks to keep main roads clear for emergency and buses. So far working but need to balance my industry supply and worker demand. There are way too many open jobs and industry is behind in freight orders. Commercial is selling out of supplies quick.

 

Honestly, I think that is the way they meant the game to be played. At least they were trying to get the mechanics to work that way.  The RCI meter gives you a heads up. The stats  for the population tells the story. It tells you exactly what you need. You just have to figure out how to do it without upsetting something else. Like traffic, resources, etc.

 

When you start paying attention to that stuff it really becomes apparent and puts a whole new perspective on the game. Just the other bugs and junk are getting in the way. After playing it that way you care less about making money and slapping together a city to get a high population. But work each and every block, road, resource, service, etc. to satisfy your sims needs. You get a better sense of the depth the creators were trying to put into the game. Heck sometimes just the way a building faces can change everything. One direction it causes traffic problems. The other direction sims drive right by and not go to work. Another direction and everything is fine but cause traffic problems down the line.

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  • Original Poster
  • Also get rid of the idea that industry needs to be clustered in a specific location down wind

    Zoned industry, sure. But sooner or later you will want to use specialised industry which requires a supply chain and which will cause a lot of health issues (it will literally turn the ground black) and sims won't want to live there because of germs.

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    Is it possible that the visuals provided differ from the behind the scenes number crunching... I have this feeling that all the lovely visuals are indeed nothing more than just that...

     

    The visuals are only a fraction of your true population. I wouldn't say that they were different behavior though. The numbers seem to match up for the most part (commuting numbers are broken though).

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    The problem with Park and Rides at the entrance is because of the dumb AI, and game logic, your tourists will jump on a bus, and possibly go to commercial shopping rather than to a an attraction, or to a expo center.  Because the bus at the stop can go anywhere,

     

    Back to the point that we have no controls over the stupid buses...(bus routes!!!)

     

    I had a city where the first road into the city forked right to my expo center and I had a tram with two stops :P that way I didn't have to rely on stupid ai, or game logic.  Forced the game to go to only possible two stops.

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    Also get rid of the idea that industry needs to be clustered in a specific location down wind

    Zoned industry, sure. But sooner or later you will want to use specialised industry which requires a supply chain and which will cause a lot of health issues (it will literally turn the ground black) and sims won't want to live there because of germs.

    So why add to the mess by grouping it with a ton of industry. Free up the traffic just for the specializations.

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    The problem with Park and Rides at the entrance is because of the dumb AI, and game logic, your tourists will jump on a bus, and possibly go to commercial shopping rather than to a an attraction, or to a expo center.  Because the bus at the stop can go anywhere,

     

    Back to the point that we have no controls over the stupid buses...(bus routes!!!)

     

    I had a city where the first road into the city forked right to my expo center and I had a tram with two stops :P that way I didn't have to rely on stupid ai, or game logic.  Forced the game to go to only possible two stops.

     

    I found it was easier to train the tourists into the expo area. Then use park and rides to give my commercial some tourist love from road traffic and help keep that traffic at bay while my medium and low wealth sims commute to the expo center. If you use park and rides use bus stops for ending stops park and rides at the beginning.  So make sure the bus stop is at the entrance of the expo center not the back entrance for cars to enter. Not every sim will go in on foot at that expo center when you drop em off on foot. No bother. Just keep the roads clear to get as many to that stop as possible.

     

    With the expo center you are gonna have traffic. Just keep that traffic moving.

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    Also get rid of the idea that industry needs to be clustered in a specific location down wind

    Zoned industry, sure. But sooner or later you will want to use specialised industry which requires a supply chain and which will cause a lot of health issues (it will literally turn the ground black) and sims won't want to live there because of germs.

     

    It doesn't matter as much as you think it does. I accidentally built my industry upwind from my downtown in one of my cities and still managed to get plenty of people to live not only in the downtown, but also right next door to the factories. Just have a hospital with a wellness van or whatever so you don't have mass deaths every day.

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    ********* Warning Wall-O-Text ***********

     

    its almost impossible to mix $$$ and $ sims due to land value, how do you go about this?

     

    also  how do you mix C with R, before Tech.. i always have $$$ R way before ill have tech. thus C (pollution) anywhere near them is a no no, trees work yes. but forget to plant them every 15 mins and you play catch up for the next 6 hours real time

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    ********* Warning Wall-O-Text ***********

     

    its almost impossible to mix $$$ and $ sims due to land value, how do you go about this?

     

    also  how do you mix C with R, before Tech.. i always have $$$ R way before ill have tech. thus C (pollution) anywhere near them is a no no, trees work yes. but forget to plant them every 15 mins and you play catch up for the next 6 hours real time

    You one way to split $$$ and $ sims is to use a street. They won't live next to each other but will across the street. OR apply a buffer of trees or parks or $$ R. Usually the $ will turn to $$ if it is too close to the $$ which is goes beyond the radius effect of the park. Personally I would do $$$ next to $$ next to $ keeping them near each other rather than huge areas across the map. Remember that $ R is highly dense. If you are going to balance supply and demand you won't need much.

     

    Industry with R or C with R? I think you meant I with R. Anyway, before tech you simply try and not surpass medium density industry. and never place more than one medium industry building next to the other. Ground pollution stays in check until you get big enough to tech up one level. Like I said spread it out. All that you need for the tech college is 800 elementary students which is easy to get. Once you get high tech you are home free. Pretty much.

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    I was just thinking about this again...

     

    If the park and rides are meant to get cars off the roads, wouldn't it just be better to not use them at all so that the sims don't need to drive their cars at all to the park and ride, instead just use the regular bus stops and in that way they need not even take their vehicles onto the roads at all.

     

    Of course this would assume that buses and street cars actually worked properly & you have enough bus stops in good locations so that the sims can simply walk to the bus stop.

     

     

    With that said the next thing to do is to get rid of the idea that commercial needs to be in a central location. Also get rid of the idea that industry needs to be clustered in a specific location down wind. I will tell you why. When you cluster everything together you are forcing a city full of commuters into those specific areas. Think about 20,000 shoppers hitting the same cluster of roads at once. No road in the game can handle it. No matter how intricate you make your network or what size or density, it will break down and clog up.

    I may be misreading you, are you suggesting that I stick industrial in with the residential housing?

     

    I already spread out and disperse commercial within the housing area so that the sims can get to their "neighborhood" local commercial store as fast as possible and hopefully they don't want to drive all the way across the map to get to Joe's Bar & Grille instead of just walking down to Moe's Bar & Grille that is right on the corner of their own street.

     

    It seems really unpredictable to me what with the way that the sims just grab the first house for the night and the first job building that they come across that has a vacancy for them.  Since we don't really know where any of them are going to go home to, or go to work the next day, it seems really uncontrollable to me.

     

    But I'll keep tinkering with it as that's what I enjoy doing in CB games, always trying to get things to run as smooth as is possible.

     

    Oh +Rep to ya Epic-Nemesis

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    So what's the best layout for Park and Rides?  On corners?  in the middle of residential zones?  I don't want my sims to have to drive to far to one of these.  I see them fill up with cars, but don't really see less congestion.

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    The mass transit system is broken. With that said, I thought park and rides are for local people to use and not visitors coming in the city. It would be more appropriate to get on the bus closer to your home and use mass transit across the region than to drive across the region to take mass transit for the last 7 blocks of your trip.

    I thought so also.

     

    As for mass transit, they work great if there are no bus stops. Plop it so it covers the tourists attractions. If they are spread out plop more. Bad thing is if stops are in other cities they will flood the other cities. Street card and trains work well.

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    I may be misreading you, are you suggesting that I stick industrial in with the residential housing?

    Works for me.

    Spark_2013-04-28_23-47-14.png

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    Industry works well sandwiched next to poor people, just make sure there is a hospital around to deal with the casualties. High density industry WILL pollute heavily and WILL send people to the hospital. If your hospital can't take care of them you're going to have a lot of dead Sims on your hands.

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    I've noticed that. However, I don't usually let industry go past medium. As soon as industry reaches hi density, you'll have HazMat fires which require large fire station and HazMat trucks which require university...

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