Thing's I'm surprised aren't in SimCity 2013, but need to be eventually

[drdru7029 52]

Finally was able to download and install SC2013.  I was optimistic all the way until I started my first city.  After playing it for about 20 minutes (yeah, it didn't take that long), some restrictions to my usual creative options in SC4 have become glaringly apparent.  I'll just quickly jot some down here, separated into three groups based on how critical I deem them:

 

Serious

1. Zone depth cannot be dictated irrespective of road type.  I'm not sure but am of the understanding that different roads will allow different zone depths but come on, this is an essential component in the creative design process.  If I had to choose one issue as a deciding factor of whether or not I'll play the game long term, this would be it.  
2. Highway interchange connections to your city are arbitrated for you; the player has no choice in deciding the placement of external road connections.  
3. There seem to be no '1x1' parks; all are overly large.  Large parks are fine but not without an accompaniment of smaller variations.  
4. No micro terraforming of any kind.  I know that god mode-esque terraforming was done away with, but I can't even add a tiny amount of land to a coastline so I can fit a (non existent) 1x1 park.  

Moderate

1. No traffic count query tool.  At least I haven't found one yet. I haven't even found a traffic volume data layer but I'm sure that has to be there somewhere.  
2. Parks need to be placed adjacent to a road as well.  A lot of creative design is lost in this simple restriction alone.  

Annoying

1. No ability to turn off night view
2. No ability to zoom out and see the entire city.  At the furthest zoom level only a portion of the city can be seen from a top-down perspective.  
3. No historic trend charts to accompany the data layers (except for population I believe)

I've avoided mentioning the two elephants in the room:

 

1. Very restrictive city sizes. 
2. No ability to build adjacent cities (truly adjacent, road connections and all)

This is because they've been brought up a lot already by the community and I pretty much consider the fixing of these two issues a prerequisite for even considering playing the game long term as well, so I won't dwell on them but rather focus on the detailed minutia above.  

 

Ten years of SC4 has perhaps biased me toward having these basic creative freedoms, but really, this is a city simulator and if such basic freedoms are taken away, it loses a lot of its credibility in terms of keeping that title.  The very good news is that not any one of these nine points are unable to be fixed.  If the core mechanics of the game were flawed, that'd be the end of it.  But if Maxis can iron these problems out (and I view them as real problems, not simply complaints), then we'll have the foundations for a wonderful city simulator with a bright future ahead of it, especially when custom content creation becomes possible.  I don't see any of these hindering a newcomer or the mass audience they want to attract.  They will, however, add scores of long time hardcore fans to the customer base.  

[cshmech 30]

I've avoided mentioning the two elephants in the room:

 

1. Very restrictive city sizes. 
2. No ability to build adjacent cities (truly adjacent, road connections and all)

This is because they've been brought up a lot already by the community and I pretty much consider the fixing of these two issues a prerequisite for even considering playing the game long term as well, so I won't dwell on them but rather focus on the detailed minutia above.  

 

Ten years of SC4 has perhaps biased me toward having these basic creative freedoms, but really, this is a city simulator and if such basic freedoms are taken away, it loses a lot of its credibility in terms of keeping that title.  The very good news is that not any one of these nine points are unable to be fixed.  If the core mechanics of the game were flawed, that'd be the end of it.  But if Maxis can iron these problems out (and I view them as real problems, not simply complaints), then we'll have the foundations for a wonderful city simulator with a bright future ahead of it, especially when custom content creation becomes possible.  I don't see any of these hindering a newcomer or the mass audience they want to attract.  They will, however, add scores of long time hardcore fans to the customer base.  

 

I've been screaming about this on the forums. I don;t think many people understand how much of a problem this is to the game. And I don't think these 2 issues can be fixed anytime. Thank you for making this post! To simply put, 'you take away freedom, its next to murder'. May Simcity's soul RIP...

 

[Catchin22 299]

Agree with OP after playing for about 10 hours... there are definitely restrictions in how creative you can get. The zone issue being a major one. I suspect this could actually be fixed in a patch if they wanted to go back to density restrictions, roads could still dictate if a high density patch would upgrade or not but a low density would not if the road was upgraded. Not an entirely out of realm fix. Along with this bigger map sizes and this would be a MUCH better game. Graphical glitches need fixed too...

 

Oh I played last night and I really can't say I know what I am doing in region multiplayer mode but I had a city which was doing really really well. I spent about 5 hours on it, looked good, tons of money about 200k population and then I ran out of water! Nobody else in the region was selling water (not that I really knew how to buy it) the game told me to buy from one other city, but when I clicked that city it said there was no road hookup and I couldn't buy from them.

I guess that means I just have to abandon that city. Not that it's a big deal since when I looked around it seemed the 4-5 other players in there left long before I did. Frustrating.

[AkemiAzula 280]

One hopes there are desalination plants...

[thatsarap 25]

One hopes there are desalination plants...

 

Nope.  Maybe in a future expansion pack, for $49.99.

 

:kitty:

[drdru7029 52]

I've been screaming about this on the forums. I don;t think many people understand how much of a problem this is to the game. And I don't think these 2 issues can be fixed anytime. Thank you for making this post! To simply put, 'you take away freedom, its next to murder'. May Simcity's soul RIP...

 

 

From what I've been reading on all the various review sites, official and otherwise, everyone's screaming about the same thing.  City size is something Maxis/EA WILL change because it's become such a basic outcry.  It's just a question of when.  

 

Not having adjacent cities in sandbox mode makes no sense whatsoever, and it has stopped, I imagine, hundreds or thousands of potentially paying customers from buying the game.  My guess is they'll get to this eventually as well.  

 

Agree with OP after playing for about 10 hours... there are definitely restrictions in how creative you can get. The zone issue being a major one. I suspect this could actually be fixed in a patch if they wanted to go back to density restrictions, roads could still dictate if a high density patch would upgrade or not but a low density would not if the road was upgraded. Not an entirely out of realm fix. Along with this bigger map sizes and this would be a MUCH better game. 

 

Right.  More times than I can count in the first minutes of playing the game I found myself saying "I could do this in SC4, why can't I do it here?"  I just don't see the connection between sacrificing these basic creative utilities and making the game more approachable.  It would be so incredibly easy to just implement a 'tutor' option which would control zoning for people who don't want to think about it.  When the option is deselected, it would give people the freedom to zone how they please.  

 

I am not really a critic yet of the density-by-road infrastructure idea, because it does make a lot of sense.  As long as, say, a 2-lane road can host any density based on the upgrades it receives (infrastructure upgrades, not width increases), it's a sound idea.  Or at least, I'm willing to live with it.  I'd still like to have the freedom to zone for a skyscraper on a poorly-provisioned street and then have to deal with all the traffic volume mayhem that ensues.  But let's take this step by step.  

 

The under-the-hood mechanics of this game bring it far above SC4, but some of the rudimentary elements, those almost intangible freedoms which SC4 provided and which are responsible for Simtropolis being what it is today, have been overlooked.  I trust those at Maxis are not ignorant to this.  They had to get the game out and basically working smoothly.  Now, though, is the time to take a step back and start focusing on what made the previous game not only great, but utterly magical.  And the answer they'll find is not some complex re-working of the game; just a small number of adjustments that will make all the difference in the world.  

[drdru7029 52]

I'd also like to ask, are there any of these 9(+2) that my fellow citizens of Simtropolis would remove from this list, or change the severity of?  Or of course, add to?

[jbbry232 87]

 

 

 

 

Moderate

1. No traffic count query tool.  At least I haven't found one yet. I haven't even found a traffic volume data layer but I'm sure that has to be there somewhere.  
2. Parks need to be placed adjacent to a road as well.  A lot of creative design is lost in this simple restriction alone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would like to touch on number 2 here.

 

While i never purchased the game, i did play two of the betas.  

In the betas i found that after placing one park along the road that i could select the park and "build" upon it away from the road much like adding school buses or classrooms to the school.

 

However you are correct that it is a loss and we can't simply place a park wherever we please.

[AkemiAzula 280]

"Not having adjacent cities in sandbox mode makes no sense whatsoever"

 

Hear hear

[efgrib 45]

where have you been the last year? this all was discussed over and over again...

[drdru7029 52]

where have you been the last year? this all was discussed over and over again...

 

I was one of those discussing many of these points throughout the year.  However there's a difference between pre- and post-release.  Of course I didn't expect any surprises as far as city sizes/region play were concerned, but still held out hope about certain subtleties that made SC4 great.  Sometimes you just don't know if it's going to be a real issue or not until you get your hands on the game and start playing. 

Now that the game's out I want to focus on things which can be amended, and how we can progress from the point we're at.  We failed to make them care enough as they were developing it... here's our second chance.  

[GenXisT 127]

I haven't played SC4 for about a year or so... been to involved with L4D, Just Cause 2, BF:BC2 (and Vietnam) as well as BF3.

However, the last time I played, I had the NAM installed as well as several of the custom items available from here.

It was/still is great.  Cities always look amazing.  Great to just go paging thru the City Journal section on here just to see how beautiful the maps/regions are.

 

This thread can be summed up simply:

When Maxis started developing this new Sim City iteration, all they had to do was take SC4 (at that date) and add the Glass Box simulator functionality and the 3D modeling/camera views/tilt shift etc.

DONE!

 

Game would've been PERFECT.

This should've been a polished, 2013 version of SC4. NOT a full reboot.

[majortom1981 1]

Finally was able to download and install SC2013.  I was optimistic all the way until I started my first city.  After playing it for about 20 minutes (yeah, it didn't take that long), some restrictions to my usual creative options in SC4 have become glaringly apparent.  I'll just quickly jot some down here, separated into three groups based on how critical I deem them:

 

Serious

1. Zone depth cannot be dictated irrespective of road type.  I'm not sure but am of the understanding that different roads will allow different zone depths but come on, this is an essential component in the creative design process.  If I had to choose one issue as a deciding factor of whether or not I'll play the game long term, this would be it.  
2. Highway interchange connections to your city are arbitrated for you; the player has no choice in deciding the placement of external road connections.  
3. There seem to be no '1x1' parks; all are overly large.  Large parks are fine but not without an accompaniment of smaller variations.  
4. No micro terraforming of any kind.  I know that god mode-esque terraforming was done away with, but I can't even add a tiny amount of land to a coastline so I can fit a (non existent) 1x1 park.  

Moderate

1. No traffic count query tool.  At least I haven't found one yet. I haven't even found a traffic volume data layer but I'm sure that has to be there somewhere.  
2. Parks need to be placed adjacent to a road as well.  A lot of creative design is lost in this simple restriction alone.  

Annoying

1. No ability to turn off night view
2. No ability to zoom out and see the entire city.  At the furthest zoom level only a portion of the city can be seen from a top-down perspective.  
3. No historic trend charts to accompany the data layers (except for population I believe)

I've avoided mentioning the two elephants in the room:

 

1. Very restrictive city sizes. 
2. No ability to build adjacent cities (truly adjacent, road connections and all)

This is because they've been brought up a lot already by the community and I pretty much consider the fixing of these two issues a prerequisite for even considering playing the game long term as well, so I won't dwell on them but rather focus on the detailed minutia above.  

 

Ten years of SC4 has perhaps biased me toward having these basic creative freedoms, but really, this is a city simulator and if such basic freedoms are taken away, it loses a lot of its credibility in terms of keeping that title.  The very good news is that not any one of these nine points are unable to be fixed.  If the core mechanics of the game were flawed, that'd be the end of it.  But if Maxis can iron these problems out (and I view them as real problems, not simply complaints), then we'll have the foundations for a wonderful city simulator with a bright future ahead of it, especially when custom content creation becomes possible.  I don't see any of these hindering a newcomer or the mass audience they want to attract.  They will, however, add scores of long time hardcore fans to the customer base.  

The smallest parks I think are as big as a high density building. This way you don't have weird open spaces.

[Decius 360]

Moderate

No traffic count query tool.  At least I haven't found one yet. I
haven't even found a traffic volume data layer but I'm sure that has to
be there somewhere.

I believe that (in the beta atleast) the roads turn in color when traffic capacity becomes an issue

[GenXisT 127]

FARMS!!!!

[drdru7029 52]

I just tried playing it again.  No server problems whatsoever this time, but this thread never was about the server problems; rather what makes the game worth playing once those are resolved.  

 

I just can't get beyond the enormous hit to freedom the game takes as far as lot sizes are concerned.  Gone seem to be the tightly-packed single-family houses of that small-village character.  1 'tile' commercial/residential lots are just not allowed.  3 tile deep is all that seem to be allowed.  Also, the game is highly fidgety about how lots must be placed.  If you want an interesting or terrain-sensitive network, huge un-buildable open spaces are what must result.  

 

Another thing that I can't get used to is, for example, when I want to continue my winding street down an ocean coastline just to find that, at the city boundaries, i have to turn it into a straight street along the boundary of the tile or else just abandon it altogether.  But since I can see the open waiting-to-be-built-upon land right there, it just results in a severe blow to the aesthetic consequences of creative planning.  

 

How to alleviate these serious problems?  Very simply: 

Bring back 1-lot zoning.  Have the option for the same houses grow but without the extraneous open space surrounding them.  So if people want deep low density single family housing/commercial lots, they can.  If they don't want them, they can make smaller zones.  I feel that these restrictions are in place so that skyscrapers will have the space to be built down the line.  But what about people who aren't planning to build a skyscraper village?  I want a normal village or small city, but I feel as though I'm being pushed to plan my road network for some future CBD requirements down the line.  A city simulator should not push one into a specific creative direction; it should evolve to fit the direction the player instills it with.  

 

Make zoning more 'flowing' to idiosyncratic road networks.  SC4's rather small individual 1x1 lots allowed this despite having no curved roads.  These are part of the heart and soul of what has made SC2000 through to SC4 so great.  Not having your creative pursuits result in something that just seems to 'organically' meld together just completely ruins the motivation to be creative.  

 

I'm not even going to mention the option of being able to expand your city tile to the areas around it, because it just goes without saying and they know it.  

 

I gave it two shots and it's failed my most basic creative necessities.  I'm going back to SC4 and the boundless creativity it allowed me-- I'll be back once Maxis removes these creative restrictions.  

[SirChick 184]

Id like to build a city not a village with 300k people. 

[AIX 270]

Since game play mechanics have been beaten to death (city size, cloud saves, highways, blah blah blah), I just want to throw in my opinion of the graphics.

 

I played the beta with graphics settings cranked at maximum and was still not impressed. SC4 frankly has more pleasing graphics.

[efgrib 45]

sure, and earth is a plate...

[JJxvi 3]

I'm surprised that you can build fancy "Metals HQ's" and "Trade HQ's" and "Gambling HQ" but it doesn't appear that you can name the company/building (at the very least) or otherwise customize them. Especially since you can get to the leaderboard screens from them.  Seems like it's be cool to see that Company X, based in City Y has the most gambling revenue on the server or whatever, rather than just indicating it by the City/Mayor.

 

Can you name/rename any buildings now?