Commercial vs Industrial

[BrokeDiamond 2]

My city just passed 140,000 Sims, and now a lot of No Job zots are popping up around. Unfortunately, I have no more space left in the map, so I'm going to have to rezone. So...

A. Do high-density commercial buildings or high-density industrial buildings have a higher maximum job number potential?

B. My commercial zoning is mainly a bunch of 2 x 4 rectangles, which are virtually all taken by flea markets. What other buildings develop on 2 x 4 spaces, and what are their requirements? Thanks.

NOTE: I am using CAM.

  Edited July 26, 2012 by BrokeDiamond  

[Superbacon 380]

I don't like using CAM, it kept throwing off all my demand levels.

You should zone depending on what there is more demand for. If you have lots of demand for commerce then what I would suggest is zone some high-density commerce in a logical area and make sure it's easy for your residents to get to.

OR

Download some skyscrapers and office towers from the STEX and place them in your city.

Though other Maxis commercial buildings, the larger ones use 3x4 and 4x4 tiles. They need water and higher density. Unless there's no demand for that kind of office building commerce, then you'd need to make sure your sims are well educated.

For industry, it also depends on what kind of industry is in demand. If all kinds of industry is in demand, then build your dirty and manufacturing industry in a neighboring city tile. This can be done with high-tech industry but not in the same tile as your dirty and manufacturing.

But personally, for HT industry I'd download some of the HK pencil towers. Some of the HT industry towers can hold up to 700 HT jobs in a 2x2 tile. And they're growable. Need Moar Internets building and others.

For agriculture you should download the SIMPEG Agricultural Mod. It seriously increases the amount of jobs for farming. Not only the farm lot but also all the 1x1 produce lots that consist of the farm contain 1 job each. And the nice part is that $, $$, and $$$ residential take jobs at them.

[Indiana Joe 1,752]

High density commercial offices hold much more jobs (several thousand) than industrial (a few hundred). So it depends how long term you're planning. But the best choice is to go with what you have demand for.

[BrokeDiamond 2]

I don't like using CAM, it kept throwing off all my demand levels.

You should zone depending on what there is more demand for. If you have lots of demand for commerce then what I would suggest is zone some high-density commerce in a logical area and make sure it's easy for your residents to get to.

OR

Download some skyscrapers and office towers from the STEX and place them in your city.

Though other Maxis commercial buildings, the larger ones use 3x4 and 4x4 tiles. They need water and higher density. Unless there's no demand for that kind of office building commerce, then you'd need to make sure your sims are well educated.

For industry, it also depends on what kind of industry is in demand. If all kinds of industry is in demand, then build your dirty and manufacturing industry in a neighboring city tile. This can be done with high-tech industry but not in the same tile as your dirty and manufacturing.

But personally, for HT industry I'd download some of the HK pencil towers. Some of the HT industry towers can hold up to 700 HT jobs in a 2x2 tile. And they're growable. Need Moar Internets building and others.

For agriculture you should download the SIMPEG Agricultural Mod. It seriously increases the amount of jobs for farming. Not only the farm lot but also all the 1x1 produce lots that consist of the farm contain 1 job each. And the nice part is that $, $$, and $$$ residential take jobs at them.

Pencil towers? Are those for commercial only?

What are the more popular packs for pencil towers? I don't feel like downloading a bunch of individual ones...

Thanks again!

[Superbacon 380]

The HK Pencil Tower packs are mostly residential.

- That pack is pretty popular. It has a couple commercial lots and the HT lots I mentioned. They should help save a lot of space. Functional ploppable lots included.

[Cobra_nVidia 30]

A. Do high-density commercial buildings or high-density industrial buildings have a higher maximum job number potential?

I believe high density commercial (skyscrapers vs. plants) have more jobs per building. However, you need both types of jobs (and some of each CS$ CS$$ CS$$$ CO$$ CO$$$ I-D I-M I-HT) in a city.

B. My commercial zoning is mainly a bunch of 2 x 4 rectangles, which are virtually all taken by flea markets. What other buildings develop on 2 x 4 spaces, and what are their requirements? Thanks.

Flea markets are all CS$ I think. I would rezone those as two 2x2 plots or four 2x1 plots. You need other commercial buildings. If your commercial plots are all 4 tiles deep, then almost nothing can grow there.

A picture would make it a lot easier to give advice though. I don't know the types of jobs you have in your city and the demands.If I knew more I would help more!

[nukeu123 307]

may i suggest both High tech and commercial offices

also this sounds more like a communt issue..... if it is add some mass transit

  Edited July 26, 2012 by nukeu123  

[Traveller 28]

Are you using industry doubler mod? Maxis default factories just dont provide near enough jobs for the land they occupy. If your not using it, that will help open up a lot of new jobs in your industrial areas.

[cogeo 960]

I always recommend against zoning for industry unless you have satisfied all commercial demand before, including CS$. Industry indeed takes up more space, pollutes, consumes a lot of power and you will soon need those expensive water purification plants. Flea markets take a lot of space too, 2x4=8 tiles for only 89 jobs. I would recommend trying to get the most packed form of CS$, ie those boxy "Small Shops", with 143-173 CS$ jobs, growing on high-density 1x3 and 1x2 (higher growth-stage) - also on 2x1, but this isn't very convenient. Check for details. Don't know if and how CAM has changed these though, so I would recommend that you open it in iLive and use the Navigator tool to check what lots are available.

You say your city is full of 2x4 flea-markets. I guess you wanted to shape your commercial area basically in 4-tiles deep lots, so that you get those 4x4 hirises, but being impossible to get these from the beginning, you started developing flea-markets, expecting that these will be replaced by hirises. Only it doesn't work like this! You must have a good amount of low- and mid-rise development, before startng getting skyscrapers. And you can't get them everywhere either. With the default settings, only up to 20% of the development can be stage-8, and up to 29% stage-7. The simulator doesn't follow the above rule completely (in cases of very high or insufficient demand it can break it), but generally it does. In addition, the ingame collection of stage-8 4x4 CO$$$ buildings is incredibly poor (only 1 building per tileset!). So unless you download a lot of 4x4 skyscrapers you will get a very repetitive look.These are often badly modded though, for example take a look at Excellent BAT, nice 4x4 lot but...: the A (taller) building is stage-6 and the B one stage-5, while they should clearly be stage-8 and -7 respectively, to match the ingame stuff (and offer some more jobs too). But the creator here obviously wanted a building that grows easily - indeed, it grows like weeds. I always recommend fixing such stuff, before installing them.

However the majority of commercial development (almost all of the midrise and much of the hirise) actually grows on 3-tile deep lots (4x3, 3x3 and 2x3) - some grow on 3x2 but these have the same buildings as the 2x3 ones. So you rather need to tear down some of the flea-markets and redesign the area (zones & local roads) - it must be cheap, they are low-worth buildings - so as to accomodate some 3-tiles deep zones and some 2-tiles deep ones too. Don't put those Small-Shops-rows along your busiest avenues (keep these for CO$$$). Instead, with the tree-planting tricK I described in my post (link in the 1st paragraph), try growing them at some less attractive spots (and mark them historical as soon as you get them). In general try to control development and consolidate the lots: two 1x3 lots can become one 2x3 midrise, and two 2x3 ones a large 4x3 hi-rise. Those stupid boutiques (employing some.. 9 sims) sprout up all over the place, fragmenting development and keeping other lots from aggregating, because they are high-wealth, and can only merge with similar lots - there are no higher-wealth lots (which could displace them) either. In such a case some careful use of the bulldozer would not harm at all.

As for residential, you should try to consolidate residential development too. In a city of mostly R + C development this is quite easy, as R and C development can take place almost in parallel: R population growth increases CS demand (immediately) and this can create more jobs in the CS sector, then more residents again, etc etc. Model-wise you can have 67% additional jobs in the CS sector, ie if you have 1000 jobs in the other sectors (civic, I and CO) and you satisfy all R demand, these residents can create demand for 667 CS jobs (all wealth types), finally resulting in 1667 jobs and 3333 residents total. Also, as education levels improve - I always suggest full education coverage (elem + high school, library, college/university, museum) - you will get increasing CO$$ and CO$$$ demand, which you SHOULD always satisfy, not only because these are the best (as far as the jobs wealth-mix is concerned), the "drive" the city's growth as well: they create new jobs and employ educated sims; CS, on the other hand, are not "drivers" (you can't grow a city based primarily on CS), instead they are the "followers", as demand for CS comes after a population rise (they regard sims mostly as "customers" rather than "workers"); then they create some additional jobs (mostly low-wealth, even for CS$$$) which can attract yet more sims, but you have to create job in the other sectors first (civic, I and CO).

So after you have satisfied all C & R denmand, I would suggest not making room for I, instead run your city for several game-months (yes, just months) and CO demand should have started picking-up again, running it for a little more should have created enough CO demand to grow hi-rises. This in turn will increase R demand, then CS etc. In any case you should get rid of the flea-markets.

And one question, 140,000 sims and 140,000 jobs is very unbalanced, the ratio should be around 2:1. What is your demand chart like? Have you merged CAM into simcity_1.dat or just installed CAM? Not sure if this results in more residents or more jobs though.

  Edited July 28, 2012 by cogeo