Chicago BAT Project

[darn42 1,268]

Definitely not. Most buildings have been made in sketchup but they are in no way quality. I do however use the sketchup models to base my scale and proportions if I can. Though they are just textured boxes, they do have the proportions correct. We at the CBT don't BAT just to release it on the STEX, we BAT to create quality works that we can be proud of.

[Toothless Stitch 2,901]

Darn42 is right. Most of the building you can download from Google Warehouse are taken from Google Earth and are simple boxes that have been textured. Rarely there are buildings which are complex enough so they might look ok. However, as darn already saidm, most of the buiding have the right porportions that can be used to get the base of the building done. Further details need to be done separatly.

[QuadBaconatorWithHamAndEgg 31]

So, then, 3DS is required?

[darn42 1,268]

In my opinion 3ds max is the best tool for the job. Gmax is still a great tool for getting things done, but it's with 3ds max that I think all the options are opened so that it's possible to truly create a piece of art.

[Toothless Stitch 2,901]

Im very glad to be able to say that the modelling part of Onterie Center is finally finished.

Now it's your turn to tell me if there's is anything I should improve before I start with texturing that thing.

[Gn_leugim 853]

Well, after a carefull inspection, I have to tell you I am very sad... because I ddnt find a singe thing to point out you should correct before texture XD great job

[Sgt Pepper 864]

I'd like to point out and ask if there's any window frames for all those windows on the Onterie Center? Or is it just hard for me to see them? Other than that it looks great and I can't wait to see it textures.

Darn, the Tribune Tower is still looking great. Any more progress on it?

About Sketchup, simply put taking the textured boxes from Google Earth is a bad idea. They don't look good in the game at all, and would not be anything you'd want to release. But, out of one's possible personal preference, if you don't mind the appearance and want a bunch of free undetailed buildings to look at(probably preferably from a distance) then by all means all the power to you.

However, Sketchup shouldn't be downgraded for what it can do however. It's a good program for beginners or someone who'd rather something much easier to understand at first. All of my first BATs were done in Sketchup. I made quite a few BATs from it, and I believe they turned out pretty great.

Of course, it's easier to simply start out in Gmax now though like I evolved to doing. Since, you'd have to model it all out in Sketchup, then export and import it into Gmax, change the textures(since you can't tell how the textures will look ingame from Sketchup) then make sure some vertical scaling is right or appears right, then render. It basically added an extra step, that would be unnecessary really, but it is what one would want to do and how to model something.

Either way, whatever program it results in a nice BAT with enough dedication from the modeler. It's mainly not the program but the modelers' work.

  Edited July 28, 2012 by Sgt Pepper  

[darn42 1,268]

sgt: I have no progress on tribune because from what I know it's done but the windows, and girafe offered to poke around to see if he could improve it if I uploaded the file. Not sure if he's done anything, I'm going to message him and ask if he still wants to do it if not I'm going to reexport asap and send it to someone for lotting.

Also, I completely agree that sketchup shouldn't be downgraded, It's a great program especially for beginners. Gmax and especially 3ds max can be very intimidating to someone unfamiliar. The main difference is that sketchup is made to be intuitive and easy to use and therefore has fewer features. 3ds max is a very powerful program used by professionals, however, and can do a great deal more than sketchup can. So sketchup is a good program, but it's more of a-I don't want to say this to make it sound condescending towards sketchup because it's not meant to-but I would say more of toy. It's easy to use and quick to learn, but hard to master.

edit: btw, it looks really fantastic sky.

  Edited July 28, 2012 by darn42  

[Cockatoo 2,256]

SketchUp is good for… well… sketching things up. Quickly and easily getting an idea into computer-generated form in a very short amount of time. But, as has been said earlier, it's also very limiting in what it can do.

To become a proficient modeller you really need a toolset like Max's at your disposal. BATing is a very complex task though and as such, the tools in Max are much more suited to it.

I wouldn't recommend that beginners use SketchUp just because it's 'easier' at all. Max and SketchUp are, IMO, two tools for completely different purposes. SketchUp is like a digital tool for making something akin to the rough concept sketches you might find on the back of a napkin... little is measured, some things don't quite make sense, but the basic idea is there. Max on the other hand is for creating your immaculately detailed presentation drawings. You're eventually going to have to learn to do things both ways, and as such, I don’t think SU should be treated as a stepping-stone toward Max (or in Sgt Pepper’s case, Gmax.)

[Bipin 3,402]

I myself am a Sketchup modeler, but I use it for just that, the model and not much else. I make my models in Sketchup simply because I prefer the toolset as a personal preference. I am more efficient at building models with the style of tools Sketchup provides me with than anything else. When I do build the model in Sketchup, I add textures for materials which don't have any sort of unique characteristics such as glass, metal, wet concrete etc. However, when I import to 3dsMax I often will adjust the textures slightly to better suit the material it is based upon. For those more unique materials, such as what's listed above, I often make my own (for instance, I modify a transparent Sketchup texture for a specular level of 275, glossiness of 45, Fresnel falloff map, some ray-traced refraction, and varying degrees of reflection for glass).

I find this method of model-making works quite well for me. I can produce what I and others claim to be of equal or sometimes better quality to models made purely in 3dsMax or another "real" modelling program. If models could be created with tools similar to those in Sketchup, then I probably would use 3dsMax exclusively.

[darn42 1,268]

I'm honestly surprised to hear you say that. As far as I can tell, the details you put in your models are unique to any sketchup models I've seen. Do you do all of the modeling in sketchup? Also, I do want to know what kind of tools they have that 3ds max doesn't. This interests me.

[Sgt Pepper 864]

There's actually not much of a difference in appearance once a Sketchup model(that's modeled out, not talking about those google earth models ) once rendered in either Gmax or 3ds. Max from what I've noticed. Obviously, 3ds. Max has more options than sketchup and gmax with texturing.

I always modified textures once in gmax anyway.

Like I said, it doesn't matter what program is used, as long as there's enough hard work and dedication it'll come out great.

[darn42 1,268]

hmm... I guess the only real difference is when you get into the real advanced modeling features that max has recently gotten like graphite modeling tools and some other things. Of course those are things I couldn't do without, but that's cause I've grown so accustomed to them. good to know all this.

[Toothless Stitch 2,901]

Well I think it depends on what programme you learned modelling with. If you're first porgramme you worked with was Sketchup you will certainly think it's the best programme for what you're working on. Also you may know all tools very well so you know how to work with SketchUp efficiently.

My first programme was GMAX, later 3ds.Max, and I learned to work with it. So it may be hard to imagine to work just as well with another programme.

I would say: Each to their own!

[QuadBaconatorWithHamAndEgg 31]

Just wondering if there's a way to speed up the process for all to enjoy. I'd like to pump out quality buildings/lots in a week.

[Francis90b 748]

Just wondering if there's a way to speed up the process for all to enjoy. I'd like to pump out quality buildings/lots in a week.

Yeah, by doing it at a lesser standard and quality.You actually have to thank skyscraper and darn, they're actually quite fast in what they do.

Want good looking things? You have to wait for them.

Still want a way to speed the process up? Take the BAT and do it yourself...that's it.

  Edited July 30, 2012 by Francis90b  

[Toothless Stitch 2,901]

I agree on Francis, be patient! Batting is a hobby not a job, and most batters just want to have fun. We try to keep up giving you BATs of good quality.

Also, like Francis already said, you can feel free to learn it yourself. Everyone can get it. But you need to be patient and pay attention to details. Details are what makes a building look good. Otherwise you also could use the Sketchup Models.

Btw, thanks for your compliment, Francis!

[QuadBaconatorWithHamAndEgg 31]

No, no, I wish not to rush the work of others. I mean I would like to contribute in some form and am looking at how I can do it at a fast, yet efficient pace.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

The learning curve for 3d modeling is sort of steep. For someone's first BAT to be good quality it would take at least a few months to finish it. Then as you practice and learn more you can do BATs faster. After a few years of BATing you could probably BAT a good quality building in a week if you're very focused and productive but even if you managed that (which is actually very hard) it would still take up most of your free time for that week.

BATing is a fun and rewarding hobby but it's a time commitment.

sketchup isn't a bad program (it's a popular program for a variety of 3d professions). But I think people are attracted to it because it's easier to learn. But the problem is that when you're in sketchup you can't do a BAT preview. You're essentially modeling blind. And I think early on one of the fundamentals for BATing that is important to do is getting a feel for how thick small details need to be. When you're modeling something like window frames .05 in any direction makes a difference. But without the BAT preview you can't judge whether or not you've done it right. It's sort of like drawing a picture with your eyes closed. So I personally don't think people should use sketchup to BAT until they've developed a good intuition/knowledge for how things will look rendered for SC4.

[Francis90b 748]

No, no, I wish not to rush the work of others. I mean I would like to contribute in some form and am looking at how I can do it at a fast, yet efficient pace.

Sorry if i misunderstood your intention.Sometimes some people come to BAT threads to rush other people's work, and when i red your post, i thought the worst.

I'm glad that you had different intentions, my apologies.

Looking forward to your beginning .

[Toothless Stitch 2,901]

*New update*

This is what we have so far.

This preview has been made by Aaron Graham. Is sent him the file for experimenting with it. He worked on the textures and we cooperated. Unfortunately, we I'm having some problems with loading the new building but we'll ry to solve it.

Thanks to Aaron Graham for his awesome work on this building.

EDIT: Please give each +1 rep to Aaron's comment because the texturing part is his work!!!

  Edited August 3, 2012 by skyscraper241  

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

Wow, looks great Aaron, I think you need a little more reflection on the glass on the tower part.

It's funny commenting on you own work.

  Edited August 3, 2012 by Aaron Graham  

[darn42 1,268]

I love the texture on the diagonal part facing up on the right side. However, I'm not so sure I like the left side.

Btw, aaron, thank you very much for helping with the texturing, though I think it would be more helpful if you would walk us through step by step your workflows for texturing rather than just doing it for us. Btw, I have a picture of tribune next to Cadillac tower that was requested so long ago, imo I think it needs to be scaled in all directions by 125%

Btw, lotting is done by T Wrecks, once again it is marvelously done so give him a round of applause, though I assume the lot design will change once I do the final export seeing as it will be significantly larger.

  Edited August 4, 2012 by darn42  

[Toothless Stitch 2,901]

I agree with darn. You should really think of making some tutorials. I know there are some. And I'm sure that we are not the only users who would appreciate your work.

*give applause to T Wrecks*

[Sgt Pepper 864]

Looking good guys.

[Francis90b 748]

Hmm...From Google Earth Cadillac tower looks like being30,9x31mtrs, tribune looks like being 46,2x30,75.

Nofunk brought Cadillac's dimensions to 30,4 by 30,4, so that it could fit into a 2x2 lot (32 mtrs) and have a 1,6 mtrs sidewalk space on the sides facing road, while being wall to wall on the other two sides.

  Edited August 4, 2012 by Francis90b  

[darn42 1,268]

I scaled it up by 125% I remember I had some rationale for that a long time ago but I forgot it and stopped doing it. It's 45 meters by 31 meters now. I'm satisfied with that because every single thing I did was eyeball proportions based on the entrance :|

[Francis90b 748]

31 mtrs= less than 1,6 mtrs sidewalk.

1,6 mtrs is a standard lenght that is used to set back buildings from the edge of the LOT.

You would have the road, then the sidewalk of the road, then that 1,6 mtrs sidewalk, and then your BAT.

  Edited August 4, 2012 by Francis90b  

[darn42 1,268]

I think there's going to be some sort of park thing on the lot like in real life. And do you mean .8 meters of sidewalk cause 1.6 meters give in a 2 square lot would give a .8 boundary all around.

[Francis90b 748]

Well, unless you don't recreate the (whole) park, it would be a wise idea to make sure it could fit everywhere.

The 1,6 thing is relevant only on sides facing the roads...on all the other sides distance is irrelevant.

So, 1,6 mtrs on sides facing the roads, and whatever you wish on other sides.

  Edited August 4, 2012 by Francis90b