Grid secrets: a tutorial CJ

[TheCrybKeeper 300]

Hello fellow Simizens!

Before we get started; I have a few pre-determined comments.

 

1. I searched up Grids in search window and read everything I could find about Gridding entire cities.

2. No one posted the real facts. At least I found nothing about it.

3. I know grids are considered boring to some, but feel free to criticize me. It is perfectly okay and un-offending to me.

4. Contrary to beliefs, SimCity was designed, so players could find an absolute or logistic pattern, for a perfectly functional city. It was not designed to function well, when imitating real life city plans.

 

Cheats/Mods in place

 

BAT Bank for unlimited funding. You don't deserve it for pre-determining placement of final stage objects. NAM(Network Add-on Mod) All other plug-ins removed entirely from game.

 

Grid history

 

I have been gridding out entire cities since SC2k. In SC Classic, the secret was parallels with no intersections and no gridding ever. This forced my Sitizens to stay in their respective strip of land. Attempting the paras didn't work for SC4, as traffic cannot cross the street, so Sitizens couldn't get to work, even when their job is directly across the street from them, they still cannot find the job and go NJZ and then leave. This shows us the real problem issue with SC4: Traffic cannot turn, without an intersection or roundabout in place.

 

The most efficient grid size

 

I have attempted several sizes of grid systems and only one size will let all utilities, transits and public services, work at maximum efficiency. that answer is 6x6 tiles. 4x6, 4x4 are not good, as traffic accidents do increase. same with 5x6. 8x8 is way too big and sitizens begin having longer commutes and a rougher time finding jobs, as they tend to go around blocks and double back to their destinations. thus, when a city block is 7x7 the sitizens go clear around the block to enter their own driveways. This adds 4 tiles of avenue to the commute, not just one tile. 8x8 was total nightmare and abandonment increased dramatically.

 

6x6 is what you want in all districts; res/comm/ind. there is many reasons for this size and I will be covering those as I go, so bare with me.

 

Grids and the NAM(Network Add-on Mod)

 

The NAM adds turning lanes to every intersection made with avenues. This seems okay in-game play, as it slows down the game, only a bit. It does however, effect construction tremendously.

 

I started building out my grid like so.

 

 

Notice above, that the news ticker is recognizing traffic, that doesn't exist. I have no Sitizens or autos yet.

 

The more avenues I added the slower contruction became. Remember; my only plug-in files are the NAM and BAT Bank, nothing else.

 

Gridding entire large city without NAM: 1 hour 10 minutes (allowing for 5min. margin for error)

 

Gridding entire large city with NAM in place: 4 hours 25 minutes (allowing the same margin)

 

I also attempted, letting the avenues and the little yellow dozers, finish contructing each strip I laid. I thought maybe the dozer activity was slowing me down. That wasn't the case. It seems the NAM is most definitely the culprit. The more completed aves. I had, the longer the game took to start contructing a new strip of ave. how long did it take to, click and drag my last 24 tile long section of Ave with the NAM: 1min. 12 seconds!

 

Busing is the answer

 

Once I finally completed my grid, I go to my one and only useful transportation vehicle: Busing.

Rails cause traffic back-ups. EL or subways are too expensive to maintain and limit your capacity. Buses however, do not cause traffic congestion, which allows for un-limited capacity. Buses are not limited to a track and they mimic the same commute path as the autos, which is very crucial to performance of transport. this is a huge minus for other forms of transportation.

In order for busing to be most efficient we must build diamond shaped access to busstops, as shown below.

 

 

What does it look like in the region view? Edit: how much did this grid cost? 935,000 simoleans

 

 

To be continued: I will be showing the most efficient placement of every object in the game. I do mean the best place for everything, every utility, airport, school, Stock market, etc.....

 

Now please, comment, question or criticsize. All is very much welcome and taken in to consideration.

 

[pansarkatt 2]

Wow, that's a GRID! It will probably not be the most beautiful city, but I will still follow it to see how it develops. Interesting!

[BlakeMW 84]

1q2w#E$R5tOut of interest are you going with deliberately low bus coverage to encourage car usage?

[Mikeaut1 261]

Great work so far. Can't wait till the next update. I build with grids in my city journals (downtowns only). But yeah, I hope to gain some knowledge from this!

[_MostlyHarmless 17]

I love the grid. Yes, its boring, but its so perfect, it makes sense...totally utilizing all availible space. Look at all the big name cities: NYC, Chicago, LA, Philidelphia...all more or less have a grid. Are they ugly cities? Heck no! they know how to utilize the space that they have. Place parks, landmarks, etc in a way that spices up the city. I grew up with the gridded wonderland that is Chicagoland, and its the opnly thing that makes sense to me. thats my two cents.

I like to grid my cities with 5x5 road system. This allows for a rail, be it an el or ground, to go in the middle of the 5x5 grid, and allow for development on either side. In chicago we call these alley els, because the el rails simply run over the alley, or rather in the middle of the 5x5 grid, allowing 1x2 or 2x2 growth on either side, make sense?


P.S. frndofyaweh, did you know that in the original SC you can replace the whole road system with rails, and everything will still grow. Its great, no pollution from cars, and i dont believe that you had to worry about train stations. Just reminiscing i guess. Also the lack of variety of diagonals and curves definitly makes it difficult to sculpt a truely beautiful, if not realistic, city transportation structure, not to mention that the buildings can only grow on the road at a right angle. PHEW ok im done

[TheCrybKeeper 300]

Pansarkatt: thank you very much! I will most definitely continue this to its end. All game maximums will be revealed.

Grater: Thanks for asking. I know I sound like some kind of expert, but really I am not. This is all the busing I have ever needed, to get zero conjestion problems. Later as the city grows; I may find out they are in-sufficient, but they have worked flawlessly, up to 263,000 sims.

 

Mikeaut1: Thank you for commenting MikeAut1! I hope I can give some knowledge as well.

 

Northsider1983: Thanks for commenting and bringing back my memory. Yes, big cities use the grid system. Keep in mind that SC4 is a simulation and being so, means that how the code works, is basically revealed in-game and gives away the stratagy and formula.

 

Thank you for adding that denominator. I too used all rails in SCC! I had totally forgotten that part! Too bad, that doesn't work with SC4. It would be interesting to try.

 

r******r******r

r******r******r

r******r******r

r******r******r

r******r******r

r******r******r

r******r******r

r******r******r

 

Part two: gridding secrets

 

As I go along with this experiment; I am finding out many other revelations about SC4. I will comment on those as I go.

 

Next we must start putting in fire, police, education and medical, in that order.

 

we all know that the circle or radius of coverage is very flawed. So, the goal here is to cover the city entirely with fire and police protection. there are several combinations that work for this. So I won't post the boring images, for that.

 

With Education and Medical, we need only service residential neighborhoods, so there is no need to cover the entire city. This is a game hint: telling you where to put comm zones. Commercial areas have a specific place surrounding the neighborhood or 4 quads.

 

here is an image of my education coverage and also hospital coverage.

 

 

I could have made this a bit different. Slightly smaller area even, but the circles mean; I must get my corners covered or change my square quads to rounder ones. I have done both ways and it works either way.

 

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//Multifariugg4.jpg align=baseline>

 

Clinics above are only used to catch those missed corners and edges. This should be enough hospital coverage, but I find as my city grows, that I sometimes need to double the coverage or overlap the hospitals more.

 

Below is just a guessing game for me. It should say WinSys32 Folder, which contains SC4 files. when you remove plug-ins or un-install and re-install the game even. Files are still left behind, in the Sys32 folder and it's temp folder. This is why re-installing the game doesn't solve some issues for others who have attempted it.

 

I do not have those plug-ins shown below, installed anymore. I still am able to build them though and they appear just fine at first. Once the game recognizes the LOTs, they go black.

 

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//Multifariugg6.jpg align=baseline>

 

 

 EDITED: Apparently this happens to all the res zones. No matter what size. That's right; I am wrong here. Sometimes they appear very briefly, but they always appear, until the game recognizes the change in access.

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//Multifariugg7.jpg align=baseline>

 

 

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//Multifariugg8.jpg align=baseline>

 

My city is growing very fast! pre-zoning and pre-building does not slow down growth or demand; it increases it. Of course, we have no traffic problems yet. Time will tell.

 

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//Multifariugg9.jpg align=baseline>

 

Edit: I forgot to show the region view, or satillite view at least. It shows how all civic and educational buildings, begin to form a huge spider web or X shape. Can you see the big X forming thru the city?

 

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//Establaned5.jpg align=baseline> 

 

Much more to come.....

 

[Thunderman 30]

Man, this is great!!! Looks like I'm still learning the game...lol....

 

Greetz Thunderm@n

[louisville327 0]

Most CJs bore the tar out of me.

Who would have thought that a CJ dedicated to GRIDS would be keeping me on the edge of my seat? I'm anxious for more updates!

[NicolaiS 8]

I love game experiments! Keep it up.

[Nardo69 51]

hmm .. quite interesting ...

I personally made my last grid experiments back in the good ol' days with SC2K ... I used to have especially these 6x6 grids during SC3K and vanilla SC4. Now I am more interested in adapting my traffic lazyout to a given landscape ...

But hey, this sure is interesting. Let's see where it leads to ...

Nardo

BTW: I had / have this problem with LOTS that appears even though they are deleted also with grown ones ...

[Kwakelaar 92]

Interesting experiment going on here.

[Slowhand 0]

Why didn't someone try this yet? It is so awesome!

Is this going to be a megatropolis with skyscrapers everywhere? That is usually what happens with grid cities.

Me follow this expirement.

[TheCrybKeeper 300]

Hello Thunderman! Don't feel bad friend; I realize as I am doing this, I am still learning the game. Hahaa. Doing this experiment has made me look closer, at the games graphs, charts and what is doing what and where, etc.

Louisville327: Thanks for the encouragement Lou! I hope I do not let you down as I go.

 

NicolaiS: Thanks big time, friend and I will try to keep it going. As long as simizens keep showing interest.

 

Nardo69: I do not feel worthy, but am very honored to have you peeking in and commenting! Thank you very much!

I am still finding better ways to do this grid as I go. SC4 is still, the most fun simulation I have ever played with!

 

Kwakelaar: hello Kwake, Glad you stopped in friend!

 

Slowhand: hey there! well, I been doing it this way right out of the box in 2003. I have gotten the impression here at ST, that everyone already knew this stuff, as they tend to overlook my griddles. It is most definitely more fun to create an aesthetic city, but I cannot help returning to the scare and square.

 

Yes, my goal in this experiment; is to finally see if this method maximizes my population. I have to find out if  1,000,000 sims can come from a grid such as this.

 

Part three: gridding secrets

 

 

Edit: I should have also added; My residents supply water to all Ind. cities and all Ind. cities, burn the res. cities garbage, in return.

 

I also use/pay for many of the city ordinances. I'll have to check back on that, to see which few I do not use.

 

now at 20,000 pop. I will start building industry cities. It is very important to get as many sims as possible before you even build the first industry. Once that is accomplished, you must leave the main res/comm city(multifarius) and do not enter it again, until you have industrial cities in all four directions. If you do not do this first; your sitizens will go to work, in the wrong and farther away directions. we want them to go to the nearest industry for work, without forcing them to follow a fluted route.

 

The trick to this is, to let industrial grow only so much in each ind. city. Then exit it and go to the next direction and so on. I started in the south first and went clock-wise.

 

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//South-Subtus12d.jpg align=baseline>

 

After the yellow industry bar has dropped about a quarter; save and leave quickly, then go to the next industrial city.

 

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//West-Vesper12f.jpg align=baseline>

 

You can see above, that the yellow bar is dropping, but only so much. The res/green and the comm blue are beginning to rise. Those Multifarians definitely needed some jobs! 22 days in, I was getting High-tech fast! Save city and exit.

 

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//North-Superus12e.jpg align=baseline>

 

Three ind. cities done. Another reason for 6x6 blocks is how the zones and service strips work together. this stratagy above, maximizes the use of space, with the least waste of avenues. On to the last one for now.

 

Another stratagy I am using is 90% Avenues and Busing Only. We will see if the highway gets placed. May not need it, if this works.

 

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//East-Aurora12c.jpg align=baseline>

 

This above shows where we want those RCI bars, before we ever enter our main res/comm city again.

See the ticker saying, ultimate budget control menu? that is a product of the BSC BAT Bank mod from the STEX. The easiest and in my opinion, the best cash mod for the game. The little 1x1 money tree park, tends to get lost on me and doesn't allow me, to set my own standards for cheating.

 

The link below, will take you to the proper place on the STEX to DL the bank, but you will have to look through pages 1 thru 7. It is their somewhere.

   

          I pasted the link directly off the Banks pop-up, but it didn't link directly back to the pop-up?

 

https://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?mode=files&filetype=BAT&Str=bsc ultimate budget tool metropolis bank

 

Time to grow some simchildren now!

 

 

 

[Meg 368]

Very intriguing.  Nicely organized.

Looking forward to the next update.

[hyped_up_boy 15]

hey, this is pretty cool, i like this.  hehe, but i only put a grid layout in my downtown areas and the small areas in neighbouring cities closest to downtown.  keep up the good work, im eager to see where this goes.

[tf923 0]

Sorry to break this to ya, but grid is not the most efficient layout. Grid type layouts work well in areas where high connectivity is desired, such as where jobs are located and excess traffic is actually desired.

The most efficient method is to first separate residential from commercial/industrial districts. Then use a system of dead-end roads coming off of avenue connectors for the residential areas, forming a sort of tree where avenues and highways form the trunks and roads/streets form the branches.

The reason is this: Grid increases connectivity at the expensive of using more land area, but sims have no need to go to other sims' houses. They only need to get to their jobs and back. So, using grid for residential areas wastes a lot of land giving extra connectivity to areas that don't need it or want it. In addition to the land wasted to unnecessary connectivity, the grid system itself actually increases traffic flow past each lot, which increases traffic noise, which decreases the capacity of all your residential buildings. This worsens the efficiency of grid systems even further.

On the other hand, commercial areas don't want traffic efficiency. They actually want more traffic than is required to service them. So grid is actually perfect because you get the increased traffic flow plus good connectivity that grid offers.

The reason all the big cities use grid isn't because of efficiency. It's because all major U.S. cities were designed in the days of horses and buggies. There were no cars, and when cars came around they did not bother to smash all the buildings and redo the city layout. They also didn't bother to do any traffic studies either, until it was far too late.

Today, new cities that are laid out from scratch use loops and cul-de-sacs because that system uses the least amount of land area for roads. Long straight roads are only used for collectors that connect residential neighborhoods with commercial/industrial areas. Grids are still used for new downtown areas just as they always were.

[TheCrybKeeper 300]

SkiGeek: Thank you in the highest altitude! I love your Avatar! I think I have seen all of the episodes too.

Hyped Up Boy(HUB): LoL lots! Sorry for laughing, but I got to comment on your sig qoute first!

 

I hope I am wearing an, old pair of stanky boots, if they walk in mine. hehee.

 

...still giggling...wait a sec.

 

I think your concept is possibly better, than mine. Especially, after reading tf923s' response below. Not ready to give in, though.

 

Tf923: No apologies. In fact, you have got me brainstorming already. Your description is, very clear and your literal style has concinnity. hehee.

 

You are correct. I still cannot give up yet. I could be way off, but I think there may be, more legitimacy to the intersections, than you imply above.

 

We will see.

 

Thanks for responding and giving me the great information! I truely appreciate it. Be sure and check back. If I am wrong, I will try it your way next and see what I can make happen.

 

 

Part Four: Gridding Secrets and Updates

 

My Simchildren are growing up fast!

 

 

Update: When first starting/building in in the main city; you should build each quad equally at once. I start in a clockwise order and build just enough res. to get the green RCI bar down 25%. Then pause and move to next quad.

 I like to start from outside and work inward.  It doesn't matter if, your residential zones are the exact amount, but try to build just what you need to get that 25%. You can also build, just enough comm. zones, at 12.5% per quad.

The concept here is, to rarely ever have the RCI balanced. Zone growth in balanced directions, causes the RCI's color bars, to swing and wave, in harmony. A 4 step rhythm. This is exactly what you want to happen. It is showing your growth stimulation techniques, are working well.

 I do not worry much about comm. zones. just build a bunch and they will follow the residence.

 

 

Below I again chose the 2x6 serv. strip. All the new families and newborns, are desperate for housing!

 

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//Multifarius12h.jpg align=baseline>

 

Who will be moving in I wonder? Especially since My sims I.Q. is about, 60, at this point. Yet, I am getting  mostly High-tech Industries to grow.

 

 

Oh, it is only some wealthy folks. they must have been born, into it I guess, Or maybe they all won the lottery. Haha. I am not sure if they will stay though, we will have to see. Noise pollution may be my downfall?.....another, we will see.

 

 

Addendum: we at AG, are not responsible for edited images or rhetorical remarks of said, destributed by our artists, not showing the poor folks next door. Thank you.

 

I.Q. time. balance those schools if funds are low. It helps to actually run the simulation slow and continually watch your schools, at least monthly. Or,... build everything at once like me, then max it out, cause yer a cheater too!

 

 

Oops, actually that should be, industrial tax settings: 13.9% on Dirty and 10.9% on Manufacturing, 7.6% on High-tech.

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//Multifarius12p.jpg align=baseline>

 

65,000 sims still no traffic developments. No abandonment, anywhere in my city, although it may happen soon, it hasn't yet. remember I have not exited this main city(we are on our second visit), or re-entered my Industrial cities a second time. the RCI bar is playing my song. Time for an airport. Haven't done a seaport even.

 

 

Here is the regional view.

I finally got the yellow RCI bar in the negative at 66,351 Simizens! Now, I need to see if my high-tech industry, will continue popping in or, revert to dirt makers.

 

time passed in Multifarius: 8years. Date 11/07/0007.  Forgot to show time span earlier. I will post a screenie first thing.

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//Establat12q.jpg align=baseline>

 

Much more revealing stuff coming. Farming is next.

[Nardo69 51]

Am I that well known already?

Interesting update - especially this service strip. In my griddy towns I used to have soem complete 6*6 squares all with big parks but they looked way better in SC2K/SC3K then they do ın SC4.

Farming is next? Interesting especially for someone like me ...

I am waiting for the update!

Nardo

[NicolaiS 8]

This is becoming more interesting by the update. I am thinking about this project and also about the comment made by TF923 about the Tree shaped transport system. I am curious which of the two will have to best benefits ... I will check in later again.

 

[SamFlash 0]

Interesting post, especially in light of the Grid vs Planned discussion in the city planning forum. 

[Meg 368]

Date: 9/9/2005 7:31:13 AM Author: frndofyaweh

SkiGeek: Thank you in the highest altitude! I love your Avatar! I think I have seen all of the episodes too.

quote>

 

Thanks!  My avatar was a gift from Dirk and Aronion.   Most people don't know that there are episodes.  They think that is me. 

 

Keep up the good work.

[palmgurl 1]

this is gives me interest! cant wait for more im coping you!

[beachfrontproperty 0]

Very nice, how is your comuute time? i bet its pritty low

[screename 0]

What is the commute time like?

[Compromise 1]

Very nice. Brings grided cities into a new light.

*Preses subscription button.*

[me_simon 0]

very nice guide frndofyaweh
but the idea of avenues everywhere turns me off a little, i prefer roads and use avenues to connect neighbourhoods
hmm....i use to go 6x6 in simcity3000 but i never went back to that, i just used 4x4 cos of the 2x1 blocks of land

[TheCrybKeeper 300]

I have alot to post this time around, but haven't got back in the game yet. Weekends are bad for me, as we are putting out the weekend editions; work hours are crazy and little time for sleep.

Nardo69: well please do not leave just yet, but farming is still not happening. hehee. sorry.

 

Nicolais: Interesting and hopefully successful. This could all end bad, eh.

 

Samflashjr: I think I read some of that thread. I typed in the search for grids/gridded, etc. only one page worth of threads on the subject, but none discussed total grid layouts.

 

SkiGeek: That is awful nice of them too. I can just about picture mama on skis. lol. I guess Carol Burnett Show, got me started watching Mamas Family.

 

Palmgurl: Oh no, copying me? If I fail then you fail. No worries, I won't let ya down just yet.

 

Beachfrntprop/ Screename: I got some revealing answers below.

 

Compromise: I hope the light stays on for a bit longer. hehee. thanks for stopping by and commenting!

 

Me_Simon: Actually I agree with you. Avenues and buses only, YUCK! I have my reasons though as we will begin to see in this post.

 

Part Five: Revealing stuff but no farms

 

 

Read me: My next step was to build a bit more industry, while preventing too much dirty development. I again entered  my four Ind. Quads in a clock-wise rotation. being careful to keep them as equal as possible. notice how many jobs there are verses how much population. nearly all the residence are younglings right now and  not many workers, I guess.

After getting the Industry up to about 15,000 total jobs, I again entered Multifarius main and began forcing sims to move in.

 

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//put-this2x.jpg align=baseline>

 

 

How to make folks live where they shouldn't want to live.

 

 My job availability is low, my grids are boring. So how do I get the sims to move in and stay? First way is to use the gifts effectively. I said I used the You don't deserve it cheat, to make all gifts available. I however, did not place most things until the sims were whining for them. Stadiums, courthouse, country club, churches: when they ask for it, then build it. Sims will also want commercial like mad and more industrial, but do not give it to them. Instead bribe them with gifts, like the zoo and parks etc. Contrary to belief, hospitals early in game, also squeezes more sims into your main city. build the 16 large parks right away. 4 per quad is fine for now. this helps many gifts pop up. City ordinances help growth, but sometimes are a final solution, when all else fails.

 

The idea is to get as many sims as possible, before you build the zones they ask for or leave the city main. Also remember this rule: your region is one city, no matter how big it gets.

 

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//Multifari00p.jpg align=baseline>

 

When the sims play the blues as above; do not let the music influence you. They are demanding lower density commercial, do not give in.

 

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//Multifari00e.jpg align=baseline>

 

93,000 and still no congestion? They are feeling the raggae beat at this point. That is good to hear. This means they are happy to shop and play, without employment. Laid back, smooth sailing mon. more will come. let us see how many.

 

 

 

Commute time is dropping! As the residence move in the commute drops off. More and more simizens taking the buses. I still have no parking garages and only my diamond bus station layout and Aves. I have NOT implemented the Community shuttle service in CO's yet. I still have many options to make busing more effective, yet I still have no need to do it.

 

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//Multcomuter2.jpg align=baseline>

 

SimBand takes a haitus above. Where's the music!

 

Cannot get anymore gifts to come up. Cannot get anymore sims to move in either. should I try the farms now? Well, first lets see if these younglings are smart yet.

 

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//Multintell2.jpg align=baseline>

 

Nope, Dumb as doorhinges. Nine years have passed by. Not long enough for a quality education, I guess.

 

Even though my RCI is all negative. Abandonment is sparse and not an issue.

 

Chapter Summary

 

Why the grids? Why the big X of services? why the paralell strips of services? why the balanced entering and exiting technique? why all the questions at once?

 

Because all are connected and work together. Forming a large spiderweb effect. each strand is like a spoke in a wheel with 8 directions. This is further broken down into L shaped commute paths for my residence, but X shaped commutes for school bus traffic and police/fire. My sims usually drive passed, only one police station when going to work. All of this, seems to keep Simizens happier with the longer commutes.

 Chess moves begin coming to mind. Yes, I am making chess moves with each transportation venue or strip of something, etc. 

The center of the X is positive/desirable and has little traffic, the outside corners of the X are negative/hard to fill with Res. and also have less traffic. (Game hint). Remember where I built that big Major league Stadium? Now sims are moving into that area like crazy. they will travel to work in an L shape or straight, but they have no reason to go into the corner Of my Main city board. What can I do with those empty corners now? Not farms. heheee.

 

See the web? a flower maybe?

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//Multifari00g.jpg align=baseline>

 

 

will I make 200,000pop. before traffic builds up?... and where IS that farming anyways?... Will the sims get so smarty tarty, that they will not work on a farm? We will see.

 

 To be continued.....

 

 

 

 

[Keiran Halcyon 0]

A question about your grid numbers - you claimed that higher than 6x6 and the bus system is no longer effective. But, you only place a bus stop on evey other corner. Have you tried increasing the grid to, say, 8x9, putting a bus stop on each corner, and having a 1x7 remaining service strip, with room for 4 4x4 buildings per grid square?

Also, are you starting all your zoning at high density, skipping low and medium?

[BlakeMW 84]

Civic buildigns provide jobs, in EXACTLY the same way as commercial and industry. Hospitals create 100 jobs, high school and higher educational civic also create 100+ jobs, this is how cities can grow fast with civic bribes. Most civics also have 50%+ R$$/R$$$ jobs, making them much better than dirty industry or C$ jobs.

I'd be interested to see traffic volume graph, to see hte relative bus/car volume. I'd be suprised if you have higher than 30% bus usage, but I might be wrong.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

if you reduce all of the funding to nothing will it still provide jobs?