Grid secrets: a tutorial CJ

[RiverCocytus 0]

Wow, all of this makes me think...
wouldn't it be awesome if someone made a ploppable grid? Costs nothing, no monthly, anything could be built overtop... but use it as your 'blueprint'-- so you can lay out a city like his without having to spend all of the money right away and incur the huge monthlies of this Grid secrets CJ.. in other words, it might help you do this awesome grid thing fair and square, on like, hard mode- with the basic 100k.

That would be pretty off the chain, as they say.

[TheCrybKeeper 300]

Hello everyone! Seems this experiment is so well liked, it needs a part two.

However this time; my Journal will be within the CJ forum along with the rest of you. It would only be fair; that I had some real competition and honestly all this attention is in the wrong forum.

Grid Secrets: Gridding The Oceans
    
    Four way intersections above sea level

[Daddy-O 1]

I read through the whole thing. Thanks for all the hard work. Thanks for the tips.

[S70 0]

I've been lurking a bit and finally got around to joining. A few different reasons pushed me into doing it now, and one of them was to say thanks to you for the extensive research you've put into studying the Grid. I read it a few days ago and it's been very helpful. Your thoughts and experimentation have helped me improve my cities, and have gotten me thinking along directions I hadn't before. And one of the best tips I've ever seen was in regards to eliminating the bus/ambulance expenses and allowing the residual effect radius of education and medical facilities to come into play. (I'm not sure if that was your eureka or if I should be thanking you and whomever you found that one out from... but thanks to everyone up the line!) Great work!

[mtbrocket 2]

This is a great forum.

I love the bridge following the shore line.

I like that you have generated a lively debate with your interesting experiment. Maybe I am daft or something but I am still wondering what it is you are trying to show and what is the purpose for showing it since this topic is in the game experiment forum and not the CJ forum; the efficiency of grids in moving people; a city can get one million in population with grids; or that the game uses a grid like pattern? If the point of this is to show that the game has a grid like pattern, now what; knowing that information, how does it help in city design?

Regarding grids verses non grid layouts I have a small thing to say. I might be full of baloney but, hey, that is better than some other people who seem to be full of spit and vinegar.

I have lived in several different types of cities with different road strategies and have commuted to both school and work by a variety of types of transportation systems. I now live in Chandler, Arizona which has both grids for the main roads and a mixture of cul-de-sacs and twisty streets within a mega grid. The whole valley of the sun is absolutely dependent on cars as there is no truly viable mass transit to speak of. The system does not do a very good job. I have also witness the failings of limited access roads like some of those in Maryland. One crash and they no longer function as has happened to me on Clara Barton Pkwy where I had to wait two hours before a crash five miles up the road was resolved. There were no exits or u-turns and cars just kept filling the road. From these experiences I have tried a lot of transportation systems in SimCity spanning ideas like all roads to nothing but subways.

Look at how people fight over the grid vs. no grid issue, tempers grow, nostrils flare. I think it comes down to "my city is better than your city". I see that your next one will be in the CJ forum and I think that is the right choice. I think what real life and the game really shows is that the use of grids, trees, spokes, or giant single zoning areas are really unimportant compared to the problems arising from a dependence on a single mode of transportation, be it cars or space planes.

Keep up the good work.

-Dan

[TheCrybKeeper 300]

Just dropped in to say thank you to Vandy, for pinning this tutorial CJ, for the whole community to enjoy.

For all those who have kept coming in and visiting this experiment; a very gracious thank you. I really never expected grids to catch on so well. Because of Simtrop, Dirk and all of you Sitizens of ST, I feel a part of something great. More than just a game forum, I feel a part of an extended family.

A Small addendum:

Remember the griddin rules

1. Real cities and SC4's grid cities, are not the same. Simcity grids actually work.
2. Grids are just computer logic, therefore they must fit in the 256x256 tile format. Just like hexes are the secret to many other computer simulations.
3. Always find the maximum efficiency point for placing all things SimCity related. all items and radius' will always divide into 256 equally. Sometimes, following this rule when LOTting and BATting will produce best results.
4. It is not necessary to grid the entire city map. Only grid where efficiency, traffic flow and profits apply.
5. WARNING: Complete Regional gridding may result in utter boredom. If boredom sets in; donate 20.00 dollars to Simtropolis and get your FREE complimentary prescription for eliminating Utter Boredom: Doctor Dirks STEX CD! Chalk full of creative fun content to enhance your SC4 gaming experience!

[RiverCocytus 0]

I've developed some creative ways to grid, ones that involve fitting the grid to regular terrain... its actually quite interesting!

In fact, the 'boring' background image 'grid' is an excellent guide for gridding.

Thanks for the ideas, dude!

[p1 1]

ONE WORD - GRIDS ARE EFFICENT!

[isc9114 0]

Originally posted by: RiverCocytus Wow, all of this makes me think...

wouldn't it be awesome if someone made a ploppable grid? Costs nothing, no monthly, anything could be built overtop... but use it as your 'blueprint'-- so you can lay out a city like his without having to spend all of the money right away and incur the huge monthlies of this Grid secrets CJ.. in other words, it might help you do this awesome grid thing fair and square, on like, hard mode- with the basic 100k.

That would be pretty off the chain, as they say. quote>

 

Yeah, like a macro thing that has been discussed in another thread. I've always thought that that would be cool to have. Also, a more recent thought of mine for SC5 - have a dialog at the start up (with the city naming window) that asks what kind of city you want to build (industrial mega center, bedroom community, upscale yuppie residential/comm center, hippie commune, ghetto, etc.)  and so the game's intelligence could adapt and make appropriate comments.

Just a little something to kick around...

~ Ian

[miguelkuk 109]

I've read the whole 9 pages with great interest. Thanks for the great work you put into it.

I too have a tendency for gridding and symmetry, but as I play along I tend to diversify more my layouts as I get bored of the unapealling aesthetics of the city.

Anyway, you mention you'll continue updating but on a CJ? Can you tell us where to look for?

I'll be waiting impatiently for the 10m mark.

XXMiguel.

[TheDancinZerg 0]

Wow I can't belive how good this cj is. I think its awesome that someone is looking into this with such great detail. Who knows we may soon be building grid cities! Must take tons of patience tho, all of those roads... Also it makes sence how the avenue systems work. Most of the time we use them like highways when they are not, they are more like super capacity roads...

[rooker1 4]

Very interesting concept here.  I have just read the intire post from begining to end and I can see how everything works and I agree with it.  But and I mean a BIG BUT it doesn't look good at all, very unrealstic and in my opinion it is way too easy to play the game this way.  Just so everyone keeps in mind this is my opinion and I like to play in a realistic mode and try to balance my cities while playing in this style.  I think it takes alot more work and alot more imagination than spacing everything out in a grid pattern.  Now when I get to my downtown district or even my industrial areas I go to a grid like transportation.  But even still within the down town areas I have residential and the roads there are much more irregular to discourage traffic through.  

I think your experiment was a success and rises some good ideas but I will never play this style!

[Barf 0]

This was an awesome throwback to the days of the previous Sim City games, especially Sim City 2000.  I suppose one has to have experienced those games to truly appreciate it, though; when you've got graphics that are butt-ugly, building a butt-ugly grid--and cramming as many people as possible into it--seems like a pretty darned good idea.

Anyhow, it reminds me of one of the big color pictures featured in the middle of Prima's strategy guide for SC2k; namely, James Alton's MaxiANC.  At the time, it was the single largest city ever built in the game, with a population of 9,325,541.  James Moore's Rubigger was also featured; and although it was technically larger, it was pretty much disqualified, because the Magic Eraser bug/trick was used.

[Daddy-O 1]

On SimCity2000 and Butt-ugly graphics... I disagree. That game ran and looked great for it's day.

On the ugliness and bordom of these grid cities... I believe that frndofyaweh made it clear that this was an experiment NOT the most beautiful way to build a city. His stories ran a bit off the rails at times, but all and all this was a fine experiment that revealed some interesting game pointers.

[RitchieRich 0]

I find it very interesting that you are doing this experiment, I do beleive it was done before back in the days when Maxis still supported simcity and before even rush hour came out, but it wasn't covered in this extent or graphicly enjoyable, congrats. I started using a grid system when I first started playing then moved on to other things to make playing less boring. Most of the time now I start with grid system, 6x6, and change some things around depending on the terain, I also find it interested that you and I have had many of the same thoughts such as the diamond bus stops. Keep up the good work.

[lwebb12 0]

Awesome writeup!!!!

Where was the grid started from? I want to do it as well, but with my own flair. I made a grid system based off of 4x4 section surrounded by roads, alas this system seems better.

I noticed your outer ring is 3 block deep. Is this consistent all the way around?

[TheCrybKeeper 300]

Yes, three by three edges will work great. This only allows for larger LOTS to be cut into the first surrounding block of avenues as most will not fit in a 3x3, but you can weave the avenue around larger LOTs and buildings.

7x7 edges all around works also. This way you do not have to cut into your straight edge avenues. You can also replace the edge avenue with a two lane road and get two extra tiles in  both directions. This allows room for a highway through your city, without removing zone space.

Such as in this image below.

[mightygoose 92]

nice sorta update lol

[lwebb12 0]

Originally posted by: frndofyaweh Yes, three by three edges will work great. This only allows for larger LOTS to be cut into the first surrounding block of avenues as most will not fit in a 3x3, but you can weave the avenue around larger LOTs and buildings.

7x7 edges all around works also. This way you do not have to cut into your straight edge avenues. You can also replace the edge avenue with a two lane road and get two extra tiles in  both directions. This allows room for a highway through your city, without removing zone space.

Such as in this image below.

quote>

 

Thanks for the info.

I am going to try out this 6x6 grid leaving the 3 tiles at each edge.

[psychoferret 0]

This seems to be the right thread...

I found some interesting and BEAUTIFUL GRIDS while searching on 'Google Earth' the other day.

Check out Boca Raton, Florida. Go a bit west till you see Boca Del Mar, and you'll see some AMAZING real-world grid work! Very low-density stuff, but noteworthy nonetheless. Travel north, and the grid gets tighter, more intricate.

For anyone who says that grids are always ugly, I beg to differ.

What an amazing city! I want to move there!

At the very least, I'm going to be implementing this idea in my Sim Cities!

Great thread, BTW. I'm astounded by the creativity and effort put in to all this! Thanks!

-PF

[owenluby 1]

wow! never seen anything like it. ill have another look tommorow, now im going to go to bed!

[greyhunter13 0]

WOW its looks like you are making the most planned out city ever!!

[Sgt_Strider 0]

Where do you get the BAT Bank file?

[YannickSHE 0]

I just read this entire CJ and let me tell you this: WOW.

It gave me ideas about grids, showed me we can have an interesting city with still, grids all over. Nice work there, now I must find your new CJ to see where you're at now.

One thing that still has me completely confused : the perfect terraform for the rivers. I mean ... I tried to dig perfect shores for seaports/ferries, and I'm always having a hard time doing it. But I'll try the F2 while making it, it seems working.

Great great stuff, took me 2 hours to read the whole thing, and I learned more in 2 hours than maybe 1 month of playing.

Cheers.

[Sgt_Strider 0]

How are you guys creating avenues with the network addon-mod? Once I install the (October 2005 version) with my original Simcity 4 patched to 272, the game crashes when I attempt to create an avenue puzzle pieces or w/e it's called. Also are you guys using a custom region? I noticed it's really flat and I'm not sure how to attain that.

I'm a little confused with the 6x6 concept here. Is this what you mean by 6x6 for let's say residential zones from the edge of the top left corner of the map

rrrrrra

rrrrrra

rrrrrra

rrrrrra

rrrrrra

rrrrrra

aaaaaa

If so, how do I create the one big zone in that grid? When I hold down the shift key, it only eliminates the streets, but the zone is still split into smaller zones within the 6x6 square. I tried holding down the "ctrl" key, but it doesn't do anything. The "alt" key works, but it only shifts the position of the zone. Also where do I get the BAT bank file that the original poster is using? Are you guys using Rush Hour with the original SC 4 as well?

Also, I don't understand what the original poster means by placing the bus stops in a diamond shape. Can someone create an example similar to what I did earlier to explain to me how this layout should work? Thanks!

[TheCrybKeeper 300]

YannickMtl: Sorry no new CJ yet. Have one premade already though, with tons of images, but have never took the time to post it. It is an all canal city, spliced into my grid technique. Works quite well.

Based on Venice, but I need to figure out how to get my BATs/LOTs to build over top water.

Hello Sgt_Strider,

Yes that is what some of us gridders like to use: 6x6 tiles of res surrouned by 2x6 stretches of avenues, will equal 8x8 used blocks out of a city grid totalling 256 tiles. divide 8 into 256 and get 32 residential blocks in both directions. 

My region is custom made and absolute flat start. The cities are strategically placed for maximum access and uses.

6x6 seems to work best. have tried many but always ran into more problems one way or the other. 4x4 makes for less buildings and more avenues and roads, too many stop lights and merging traffic. Bigger blocks at 8x8 and traffic is worse, many buildings have trouble with access. cost for transit is less but traffic is horrendous.

I have used all roads and get stalls in growth. have combined roads and aves and highway; still stalls in growth and urban decay. Tried all aves and buses only and got best results ever! 6x6 block.

Maybe 4x4 road blocks would work. Never tried it that way, but I think avenues would still turn out best when using busing exclusively.

Buses are so effiecient that adding a subway is useless; the sims will barely use it or any other optional transits.

[manman99 2]

Heyy I like the Grid Thread ya got going on here!! See Ive been defending my grid system in my city for the past 2 months its been open, can you please, if you will take a look at my city to see if the grid system is at least a good one?  Just click my link in my sig.  But once again I love how your doing this!! It really makes an impression!!

                        Manman99            

[Sgt_Strider 0]

Originally posted by: frndofyaweh YannickMtl: Sorry no new CJ yet. Have one premade already though, with tons of images, but have never took the time to post it. It is an all canal city, spliced into my grid technique. Works quite well.

Based on Venice, but I need to figure out how to get my BATs/LOTs to build over top water.

Hello Sgt_Strider,

Yes that is what some of us gridders like to use: 6x6 tiles of res surrouned by 2x6 stretches of avenues, will equal 8x8 used blocks out of a city grid totalling 256 tiles. divide 8 into 256 and get 32 residential blocks in both directions. 

My region is custom made and absolute flat start. The cities are strategically placed for maximum access and uses.

6x6 seems to work best. have tried many but always ran into more problems one way or the other. 4x4 makes for less buildings and more avenues and roads, too many stop lights and merging traffic. Bigger blocks at 8x8 and traffic is worse, many buildings have trouble with access. cost for transit is less but traffic is horrendous.

I have used all roads and get stalls in growth. have combined roads and aves and highway; still stalls in growth and urban decay. Tried all aves and buses only and got best results ever! 6x6 block.

Maybe 4x4 road blocks would work. Never tried it that way, but I think avenues would still turn out best when using busing exclusively.

Buses are so effiecient that adding a subway is useless; the sims will barely use it or any other optional transits.

quote>

 

I think I know what you're talking about, but do you think you can give me an example of what you mean by typing it out with a layout? Also can you tell me within the example where to place the bus stop? thanks!

[Sgt_Strider 0]

bump! I need some answers to my questions above. Thanks!

[Ephphatha 0]

I read this whole thread... That hour and a half of my life was well spent. In regards to the numbering, hold on a sec...

IT'S BINARY!

Please tell me you all know what the binary counting system is? The reason ram is counted in integers of two is because they are clean binary numbers. Common sizes are: 10000000 which is 128, 100000000 which is 256, 1000000000 which is 512, and 10000000000 which is 1024. Ones and zeros are used because they indicate the two stages that can be used with electronics. Off, and On. They could easily make the grids in SC4 any other size, but this is the most efficient way. And for those playing at home, the perfect system you lot are thinking of will not work. you will get x number of 6+2 blocks, and a +2 bastard child which is the last avenue you all forgot about. The best you can do is 31 blocks with 6 spare (or 3 on each end, which is indicated in this CJ).