Akilles' Bats

[Akilles 17]

Hey Everyone!! Welcome to Akilles' BAT thread! I'm new to BATing and just uploaded my first BAT earlier today. It was suggested I start a thread over here to receive advice from more experienced BATers. For my first request I would like some help with texturing. Here is how the BAT appeared in GMAX.

I exported it under HIGH quality and got the following final product:

I was hoping the GMAX texture would appear better in game. Does anyone have any suggestions onto how I can improve quality on this and future BATs??? Thanks in advance for your help!!!

[Ceafus 88 1,827]

I'm glad you opened a thread, below are some ways to make it look better in-game, first to make textures look darker in game, you usually need to de-sautate them, and to do that, you use a program like GIMP or Photoshop. also you need to try to avoid tiling, try to find textures and edit them so they won't tile on the model. Another thing to do is to add gradient to the roof, do do this you can use teh dodge/burn tool on GIMP or photoshop, and make the texture fade from the original, to darker. I hope I helped-Frex_Ceafus

(P.S. I'm glad to see another BATer in the community )

  Edited July 20, 2011 by Frex_Ceafus  

[Akilles 17]

Thanks for the advice. I downloaded gimp to start playing around with that. What do you mean by avoid tiling?

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

To avoid tiling mean not to have textures to repeat, Lovely model by the way.

[Akilles 17]

Thanks =) I love the way it looks in gmax. Shame it can't just look like that when exported haha. How should I avoid tiling? Do i need to somehow enlarge the source image?

[harishna 847]

first welcome,

Your model need some improvement but is not bad for a first. It has some incongruousness like a window in the garage, the windows and doors need deeper into the wall and some of the details being grossly over-scaled, when starting is always easier and advisable to start with something from real.

About the textures you need to apply a UVW map and adjust it to make it look nice. Remember that things in the viewport will never look as in the game, that is why there is a preview option, in the future try to show rendered previews rather than snapshots from the viewport as hey don't really tell how will the model will look in game in terms of textures and perspective.

I also wonder if by accident the smoothing groups in the roof are selected?

looking forward to see more from you

to avoid tiling use photoshops or gimp to edit your images and like I said use UVW map to adjust the textures

  Edited July 20, 2011 by harishna  

[Akilles 17]

Thanks for all the tips guys. I've played around with Gimp (never used photo editing software before) to darken and edit the images to avoid tiling. Harishna thanks for the preview tip!! That saved a lot of time and help me a lot when redoing my texture. I also adjusted the door a bit to reflect your comment about deepening it into the wall. The big Window in the garage is actually something I hadnt seen until recently. It is very common in a lot of the houses around here. The attempt is to disguise the garage from the street. Anyway here is my first re attempt.

Does anyone know how I can change the gradient on my 3 front roofs to the correct orientation?? The right side of the roof has the gradient going the wrong way. When I apply the texture to the roof it textures both sides at the same time. The back roof worked just fine tho so I dont know what happened there =/

Also as a reference for any who find this thread I found these links very helpful

Tiling

Gradients

[Ceafus 88 1,827]

The gradient proelem, what is your roof, a line, rectange, or box? In order to fix it you must mess around with the UV Wrap, (It may be called something else so feel free to correct me but that is almost the name, if not the name of the tool) and try to get it to fix.

BTW, you have improved alot on everything so far

[Akilles 17]

My roof is actually 4 different rectangular boxes. I played around with the mesh editing to achieve the pointed look. I found the tool you were talking about. Its called unwrap UVW. Here's what it looks like now.

Does anyone see any more improvements i could make before moving on to lot editing??

[kakado_to_save 514]

I recommend that you change a bit the room texture

and maybe choose a different color for your windows

[Francis90b 748]

Well, you should tone down a little the gradient on the roof, change window texture (and maybe add some variations to it as well...), and darken and desaturate the area just below the roof (those yellow things you can see just below it).

[Akilles 17]

Thanks for the advice guys! Here is my newest version.

I'm not sure what you mean by the room texture kakado. I created a new window texture and tried using the UV map to make each window slightly different. Let me know what you guys think! =)

[harishna 847]

Akilles I would probably recommend you to rather try to improve this BAT start a new project from scratch and go step by step

1. Define the project (if is something from real life even better) try to document your project with images when blueprints if available.

2. Look at the details and get ALL the measurements not only height, length and width, but also the proportions of elements, size of the windows, distance of the windows to the wall, etc.

3. Model

4. Texture

  Edited July 22, 2011 by harishna  

[Akilles 17]

Hey all! Thought I would give you a preview of my new project. Just a little background first. This building is the county courthouse for Parker County Texas. It is located in Weatherford, Texas and is positioned in the middle of a roundabout. My goal is to eventually make two lots for this. 1 2x2 to be positioned in the middle of the NAM's roundabout. Another will be a 3x3 lot which can be placed anywhere. I havent decided whether to make this a landmark or reward building yet so suggestions either way there would be appreciated. I took some leeway with the building as I found some of the ornate detailing too difficult to reproduce exactly in GMAX. I havent textured anything yet but will post some rough draft images of that as I get them done. Without further adieu here is the images!!

Here is a couple pictures of the real building taken from Parker County websites:

Here is my recreation untextured:

I was able to use Google to see the building from the top so I didn't take any leeway with the red roof as you see it.

Let the comments roll!!

[00.7 Cheeses 69]

You made that very clever

It's just that simple for the beginner.

Keep it up. Your doing a great job

-Ernst

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Ok, a little interruption.

Background: I commented in terms of dependency statements on Akilles' first upload. He PMed me and asked whether I could give him some pointers concerning dependencies - how to control and identify them etc. Since I thought the info might be interesting and useful for others, too, I asked whether it was OK for him if I write it into his thread rather than in a PM reply. He said it was, so here we go.

Getting a grip of dependencies for BAT uploads

Tools: The LD file inside a lot file lists prop dependencies used on the lot and can be viewed using iLive's Reader.

The first problem is that it doesn't list texture dependencies at all. In case of prop dependencies, it lists the specific file, but if a file is part of a bigger pack and cannot be downloaded individually (e.g.: SFBT_ArkenbergeJoe-Props.dat might be listed, but cannot be downloaded as such, because it is part of the SFBT Essentials), it will not yield any information that you can use to point to a downloadable dependency.

The dependency scanner included with SC4Tool does a better job, but it might still not solve the latter of the problems mentioned above.

As a consequence, I strongly suggest not to rely on tools for this task. They are only really helpful if you know what you are doing. On the other hand, if you know what you are doing, chances are you don't need any tools other than SimCity and common sense.

Procedures: IMO, the best way to proceed is NOT to fiddle around first and wonder about dependencies later, hoping that tools might save you. Dependency control is a task that should start before you even make the lot.

I recommend the following steps:

=====================

1) Cleaning your workplace

Before you do anything, rename the plugins folder you use for playing the game to something else (e.g. "plugins_REGULAR"). Then make a new plugins folder. Place only the exported model file in that folder. This has the following advantages:

• All tools will load faster because there's less stuff to load
  
• There is less clutter, which means less confusion and less risk of getting lost
  

2) Throwing away obsolete tools and using new ones

Are the dependency packages you have still up to date? Do you remember where they came from? Many prop packs, mainly BSC packs, have long since been merged into MEGA packs. If you still have the old, individual packs, you will not find download links any more, and neither will the people who download your stuff.

So if you see packs from a particular author, check whether there is a mega pack with props made by that author that bundles and supersedes the files that are still flying around on your hard disk. For example, if you have BSC BAT Props SG Vol.01, BSC BAT Props SG Vol.04 etc., these are now contained in BSC Mega Props SG Vol.01. The scheme is similar for all other authors. The following list maintained by Diggis on SC4Devotion is a very helpful resource:

https://www.sc4devotion.com/dependencies.html

The readme and/or description of a consolidated MEGA pack normally lists all the obsolete individual packs that the MEGA pack supersedes. Make sure you eliminate the old files.

Just downloaded a package? Install it into an otherwise totally empty folder and see what files it installs. Always keep those files together. This way you will never pore over a loose .dat file in a folder, wondering where it might belong to and what download it may come from.

3) Dependencies and you - getting familiar

Think about the dependencies you are planning to use. What will you need? Then select a pack that you think might be useful, copy it into your new, clean plugins folder and fire up the Lot Editor.

Poke around and see what's new in the prop list. Try out some props on any lot. (For example, use the 3x3 park lot and remove every object on it, then plop down props on it to check them out.)

Most authors use a naming convention for their props so that these are listed coherently. Get the hang of that scheme.

Do this with all the dependencies you use: whenever you add something, check in the LE what's new, where you find it, and how it's called. This applies both to props and to textures. Feel free to take notes if you find props you like very much. Sometimes there's great stuff, but you rarely find it because it has an unusual (or misspelled) name. Then you may sit there and think "Boy, would I want to use that great prop now, but where the heck is it?" Writing down some names of props (and their packs) that are particularly great for a specific purpose might be a good idea.

When you're done, throw out the packs you don't want to use this time, and keep only those you do want to use. (Once you have gathered some experience, you will know to which pack a prop you are placing on the lot belongs.)

Hint: You can keep a "master dependency folder" where you store all dependency packs that you have, as a kind of "prop warehouse". Then, whenever you make something, you can go to your "warehouse" and copy the required stuff into your work plugins folder. When you're done, you clean up the work folder again.

4) Dependency discipline

When using dependencies, try to use many props from few packs, not the other way around. In many cases, generic small props such as potted plants, lampposts, benches or trashcans are contained in many prop packs. So try to stick to the ones that are part of the prop packs you're using anyway. You can also fall back to Maxis props for such objects, because e.g. a potted plant is generally rather small and will only be visible from a close zoom level, so there is really no need to use yet another dependency just because you like that particular potted plant a tiny bit better.

Also try to use logical dependencies. For example, if you make a nice mansion, then people who download it will probably be fond of mansions, but not necessarily of heavy industry. Now if a huge industrial prop pack contains one trashcan you like, try not to use that industrial prop pack as a dependency for your mansion. Rather use a different trashcan so you don't force people to download huge packs full of stuff they might not use otherwise, just for that stupid trashcan.

5) Making sure

When you are done, check which dependencies you would list in your description. Then empty your plugins folder except for your actual building and its associated desc and lot file(s) and the dependencies you think you used.

Load the game and use the Extra Cheats DLL to apply the "buildingplop" cheat and plop down your building. You know how the lot is supposed to look - after all, you have made it! Go and see if it looks that way, and make sure nothing is missing. If any prop or texture is missing, you know your draft dependency list is incomplete. If you have applied the previous steps thoroughly, such a case should occur rarely, and if it does, the search for the missing prop pack shouldn't be a lengthy and exhausting trial and error procedure because you limited and controlled your dependencies right from the start.

==============

This is pretty much it - it's not the Holy Bible or anything perfect, but it's a procedure that I found works fine for me. I hope that it might be helpful for others, too.

[Akilles 17]

Thanks T Wrecks for that great guide!! Definitely some rep there!! I started using your suggestions and I think they will make this next lot much easier to make. Speaking of which here is a preview of my next lot which will hopefully be uploaded to the STEX in a few hours.

Since Im still learning to texture/BAT any suggestions will be greatly appreciated to make this upload the best it can be =) Im having some trouble getting the windows to come out right. The windows on the left and right should be exactly the same. As you can see the left ones come out great while the right ones have those strange lines in them. I have been all through the BAT and all dimensions are equivalent. I do not know what could be causing this. Any suggestions to fix this would be great!

[Akilles 17]

Hey all! I need some help on my newest project and I'm hoping someone can point me to the answers.

1) In my new building im hoping to create a courtyard type area on top of part of my building. How would i do this?? I imagine I can BAT some boxes and and planter areas but how would I get the grass or trees into the planter areas?? Is this somethin I would have to do in 3dsMax or the lot editor??

2) Im also going to have large areas of windows and since texturing is one of my weaker areas I was hoping someone could offer me some tips on making realistic windows. I've found some tutorials on the omnibus but nothing that covers the whole process. I read your supposed to set the opacity to 70ish percent but I dont even know how to do that haha. Any and all tips would be awesome to help make my building more realistic.

I will post some pictures as I get more done but right now I'm afraid pictures wouldnt help much since its still in a rough draft stage.

[Akilles 17]

Hey all! Back with another preview. My new BAT im planning to be a 23 story apartment complex. Here is a preview

Im planning on making the balcony railing more transparent and reducing how reflective the bottom rows of windows are. I also might try to find a new texture for the roof. Its supposed to be a gravel roof. Any comments would be welcome. Im trying to get input before uploading to the Stex.

[Ceafus 88 1,827]

Good start, but the Roof and Cylinder textures need work.

[Akilles 17]

Heres a higher quality preview. I reduced glare on the bottom 3 rows of windows a little bit. Did some texturing improvements to the balcony glass including adding a mesh edit to the railings (forgot and didnt show up until the preview I posted last time). They are still hard to see so I will increase their size a bit to make them show up. I changed the texture on the front cylinder and the roof. I also lightened the tubing coming from the HVAC units. In this preview there is also something weird going on in the front. (windows dont seem to show up going to look at that). As always I would love some comments/criticism so i can learn to make better BATS. I will post another preview in a day or so fixing some issues I saw and any comments. I also hope to feature my first attempt at night lighting so well see how it goes!

Edit:

Here is a preview of my first nightlighting. I could really use suggestions here =) I intend to work on it a lot more but I have to call it quits for now and thought I would give a preview!!

  Edited August 1, 2011 by Akilles  

[Akilles 17]

I fixed and changed something with this building and am ready to export it. When I try export it though I get to 17% no problem then it stays there and eventually crashes saying it ran out of memory. Im using 3dsmax and made a post about a problem using the BAT4Max in the troubleshooting thread. Even though my GMAX always crashes it does make a SC4model file before doing so and I tried moving ahead with that file for the 3ds export. Im sorry this is such a confusing description of my problem but I dont fully understand whats going wrong here. The preview renders I posted before were on the 3 setting and took about an hour each to do. My computer is fairly new with core duo processor Nvidia Geforece G210M graphics processor and 4gb ddr3 ram. Is this render just too much for my computer to handle or is there another problem here?

[harishna 847]

would you mind showing the model in its current state?

I like the balconies, but the column look a bit un-natural (looks like made of one block of concrete there is not even an access door to the roof, the base also doesn't seem to fit the rest of the building, what is the base supposed to be, offices? I will completely re-model the whole base.

The reflections on the glass also need tweaking (check JasonCW BAT thread he has some nice tutorials there), and in general your textures need some improvement (roof, roof junk, concrete, white plaster, etc).

Are you saying that the previews were rendered at zoom3? wow what are your building dimensions? I think you got the scale completely wrong...check your model dimensions..

  Edited August 2, 2011 by harishna  

[Akilles 17]

I checked again and the dimensions are REALLY messed up. I do not know how that escaped my notice since I drew every dimension with the correct numbers. After scaling the building down by almost 200% and doing a test render I'm convinced I was off from the start however. The preview render after scaling it down took about 10 seconds whereas all the previous ones took almost an hour or two. Considering this problem and the rest of the problems Harishna pointed out im going to shelve the project for now. Im going to attempt it again from scratch in a few days when i'm no longer so frustrated with it haha. Im going to attempt a new BAT using what I learned and a great tutorial by SimFox over on SC4Devotion. Hopefully this one will work better for me! Thanks for pointing out my issue Harishna. I will check out Jason's guide and hopefully get some better texturing for my windows.

[Akilles 17]

Hey All,

Its been a long time since I tried to upload one of my creations but I'm planning on uploading the following:

Other than comments about the buildings appearance I had a couple questions.

1) I added a background image to give the windows something to reflect. (As seen in the second picture). I would like to give the windows something to reflect as they do in the second image but without the background showing up like it appears in the first. Is there a way to hide the background during the preview??

2)Right now the two previews are from two files. 1 textured for day the other for night. When I have exported these two files how do I combine them to make 1 file that I could then upload to the STEX?

If anyone could answer these questions or direct me to the proper tutorials that would be great!! I have had no luck finding these answers on my own.

[Ceafus 88 1,827]

dude, you have come a long way! Good work!

[IDS2 3,368]

Nice model Akilles! I like where you're going with this!

1) It actually doesn't look like they're reflecting a whole lot right now. Do you have 3dsMax? If so, are you using the ground plane method? I think you might wanna change your image, the one you have right now doesn't complement your building as well as it could. In addition, you'll still want night reflections, but in a different form. The best example I can think of is on Cockatoo's Tomorrow Square. Take a good look at how the night scene reflects some bright city lights that would no doubt be present in a downtown setting. It'll take some more work to come up with a good ground plane texture for both day and night, but the results are definitely worth it. Take a look at the last part of this tutorial for some information about the ground plane.

2) Did you use the exact same LODs for each one? If the LODs are exactly the same, it should work fine.

I might also suggest that you look into nightmaps instead of what you have for your current night scene, which isn't bad but it's not as realistic as it could be. Check this out and see if it's feasible.

Good luck!

  Edited November 6, 2011 by IDS2  

[_marsh_ 1,117]

You are gaining experience fast and especially so for a first time batter. Me, though not being a BATer, can give you this advice. I think you should put in more time into other models and finish one, before moving onto bigger things. Though starting out with small buildings and slowly getting larger seems like a good way for you to learn. But agian, I would continue BATing one of the older models to the point of perfection, to give you insight onto future projects.

,marsh

[Akilles 17]

Thanks for the comments guys!!

1) I am using 3dsmax. I had never heard of the ground plane method. I tried piecing it together from the tutorials you linked to me. The images below are what I came up with. I also attempted to use a night map for my windows.

Let me know what you think of my first attempt with these new methods!

2) How do i ensure the LODs are exactly the same? Just use the exact same dimensions for both files? Would I then export them both using the same .sc4model??

[Ion_Cannon 677]

It's looking good but it lacks detail, though this isn't the finished product I gather? The nightlights look nice, especially as this as your first time. As for the reflections, I think it looks a bit to reflective, but thats hard to tell with the unfinished product. I like the shape and raised plaza alot, just give it some more details and it will be looking top notch