STEX 7.0 development

[TimEpke15 56]

Okay what i miss for know on the stex is the search bar.

because when i use the search bar right above i get give the author and release dat names?

i know it is also under construction but handy tip maybe?

[Polarbare 9]

Whatever happened to all the utilities that we had earlier?

[tonyr 926]

I agree with you guys. I hope this rating system is temporary!

I'm not sure if this is temporary or not, but the new STEX rating system doesn't really give a good indication of the quality of the upload. For example, many files that previously had high ratings of 4.75+ are now rounded down to 4 stars. Some files that had a rating of close to 4 stars (e.g. 4.10), appear to have the same rating as a file that previously had a high rating.

Yeah, that irritates me, too... even if the whole rating scheme is (was?) somewhat unreliable, at least the distinction between 4.2 to 4.9 has been kinda helpful... I do hope that gets sharpened again.

[kellydale2003 2,276]

First of all.. Thanks for everything that Simtropolis has to offer, this website is my favorite website of all time!

Thanks Dirk!

1. I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned.. but when you search STEX through the little search bar in the top right.. I would recommend little thumbnails to make it a lot easier. I'm sure a cached version of the old stex is better... just teasing! :b

2. This isn't really a suggestion.. but more of a question.

Where did the ads go!?

All of this work is probably volunteer for Simtropolis.. but I have to admit.. some things costs money. It may not be my personal interest in how you pay for Simtropolis, and the bandwidth.. but I'm surprised to see no ads to generate revenue to keep the site going!

For that, I'm forever thankful!

[jamster_00 13]

Well a theme system would be nice....

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Just had an argument with the STEX search. Not allowing short words of less than four characters is not good. There are three character nouns such as "air". The restriction should be specific to connectives, e.g. and. or, nor, etc. You should not reject the search, just drop the null words. If you can't write a parser, I can. In fact, you can probably use a canned one. See the grep command on UNIX/Linux.

As it stands, I can't find any "air pollution control buildings" because the word air is rejected. Needs serious rethinking.

The STEX also needs an Index by type of lot. This would be more useful than having a lot of additional search fields mucking up the search panel. A few pages of linked index would eliminate a lot of searches and speed things up.

I would like to be able to access all lots of a specific type, for example, utilities, and I don't care if they are BATs or just lots. How the lot is created is beside the point. The only defining criteria for a lot is whether it will work on vanilla or deluxe.

The STEX searching and criteria have become far too complicated, and complicating them further is not the solution, it is part of the problem. Find the solution, please. Simplify. Use the KISMIF principle (Keep It Simple, Make It Fun).

Most STEX users could probably care less if the lot is made with the LE, the BAT or some other means. It also doesn't matter what kind of item it is. The most important thing is to find a very short list that matches the criteria. Three or four pages of results is too long. If you turn up more than 25 results, show the user the first page and let him refine his criteria.

Oh, and quit second guessing possible spellings. That is the responsibility of the person who is typing the request. The use of standard regular expression wild cards would be nice, but you must use the well defined ones, and not dream up a new set. There are not all that many. I think they are defined somewhere in the POSIX standard. When searching by author you may not know his exact spelling. Searching for Ralp*Nin* should get you to Ralphael's lots and mods. Searches should probably be caseless.

Hope this helps you simplify things.

[Tarkus 6,933]

Nathan, there's no locking anymore. Files that would have previously been locked are now 'unapproved'- we send them to a section where the public (bar the author) can't access them. If you want something off the STEX, just delete it. If you want to update an obsolete file, just update it. Simple as that.

This is the best news I heard today, hated all them locked files clogging up the STEX, glad this has been sorted

Richard

My feelings on the lack of locking is a bit more mixed. While I can understand the desire to clear off server space from files that mostly aren't intended to be downloaded anymore, the unannounced removal of this functionality has caught some folks by surprise and had undesirable results, and there are some significant drawbacks as well. If the intent was to clear off server space, I think that simply deleting the locked files from the STEX altogether would have been a better way to go, rather than having locked files suddenly become unlocked without warning, allowing folks to download files that were no longer intended for download and are outdated/obsolete/significantly flawed (in some cases), using up both bandwidth and server space and creating the potential for technical support issues.

Additionally, there are some files that were on the STEX, like the "NAM Update" packages, which were periodically deployed when appropriate and locked when they were not needed, to maintain a "static URL" that we could use in Readmes and direct folks to the proper files without worry. With no locking permitted anymore, we're going to have to re-examine how things are done there.

Other than that, I know things are still in progress and think most of the improvements to the site and the STEX have been good, and my thanks to Dirk and the staff for all their tireless efforts in getting everything in place.

-Alex (Tarkus)

  Edited March 10, 2011 by Tarkus  

[SLagonia 71]

Alright, first complaint; The search is awful! First, the four character minimum means that I can't look for very specific things, like lots of a single digit dimension (i.e I can't look for 3x3 lots because 3x3 is only three characters). Second, and most important - Why in hell is there a flood control on the search? So when my search criteria yields nothing I need to spend 90 seconds staring at my screen until I can try another keyword? That flood control really needs to go.

[Dirktator 2,325]

I'm sure I'm not the only one who has uploads that now look out of place as a result of this shift.

Yeah, mine look the same... in addition it seems that all the "second" screenshots from v6 are 'lost'...

Okay, I got only about 30 uploads or so, it wouldn't be so tough to edit all of them... still, a lot of work (new pics and all...). And I wouldn't want to tackle it before this is settled...

* Has anyone yet edited some older upload - like images or descriptions? Any problems or glitches to report?

I am still boggled by the fact that the first incarnations of the STEX implemented TWO pictures for each upload, and now this new version only uses one.

That and the fact that doing a search generates all the results in a text list, and not as images.

Actually, as fact would have it, authors can add as many pictures as they want now, not limited to 2. And screenshots can now be much larger.

The primary screenshot is at the top of the details listing. Any secondary screenshots are at the bottom.

Additionally, more than one file can be added to a listing, so an author can add more than 1 zip file, if the need is tehre.

[Dirktator 2,325]

Alright, first complaint; The search is awful! First, the four character minimum means that I can't look for very specific things, like lots of a single digit dimension (i.e I can't look for 3x3 lots because 3x3 is only three characters). Second, and most important - Why in hell is there a flood control on the search? So when my search criteria yields nothing I need to spend 90 seconds staring at my screen until I can try another keyword? That flood control really needs to go.

Thanks for reporting this. I actually wasn't aware of this behavior, so it's certainly not intentional. These would be the default parameters set up for the search.

By reporting the issue, it can now be addressed.

I'd like everyone to take a moment and assume that things are new, it's a new system, we're still putting the pieces in, and where we can customize and modify, we will.

Where we haven't, it's likely because we haven't been made aware.

Stating clearly and concisely what the issue is, and how it could be improved is immensely helpful to us, but angst-ridden irate complain-y whiny posts are less helpful overall.

[warrior 169]

Searching for "NAM" doesn't return any results, you'd think there'd be at least this one.

Tarkus, instead of locking files, I guess we should upload a zip with a text file pointing to the new version, and write "locked" across the screenshots and change the description to redirect to the new one, less elegant but nearly just as effective.

  Edited March 10, 2011 by warrior  

[thompshane 1]

I would like the search bar to be improved. When using words like NAM, RHW, NWM, and things like that it will not allow it will say those words are not allowed or something like that. Also the flood control. If i type something wrong, search, then quickly retype it it will activate flood control.

[raccoon1967 1]

Although I'm not new to this game itself nor downloading to enhance games (Total war II is the most recent for me), I am new to these simcity sites. I've been downloading to enhance the Simcity 4 game since January of this year and have gotten extremely fustrated a lot.

Reasons

1. Finding the dependancy (The biggest fustration of them all)

- There are some dependancy files that can't be tracked even by googling them for whatever reason. Example: The other day I downloaded the SFBT Trainyard. I found all the dependancy but one. It was by NSD. The problem was that dependancy was apperntly not available as the link lead to a dead page. After some googling he had a mega pack, part 1 and part 2. Not knowing which one to get I downloaded both but the ending result was that either one fixed the problem. It wasn't until I went to your forum that someone lead me to the correct dependancy, which I might add wasn't even listed as needed. Althought I am very gratefull to the person that lead me to the needed dependancy, I should have never had to go to the forum to ask. To much time wasted for one file fustrates people to the point where they won't come back to these kinds of sites.

2. The description

- It seems to be normal at all the sites, which I feel it shouldn't be. We have to download the files just to read the description of the lot. Why can't the uploaded just copy and paste the vital parts of the description in the description section before I download it? Believe or not somethings I just don't want for whatever reason and being forced to download the file just to find out it's not what I want is added time taken away from playing the game.

3. The search engine

- Already been covered by others

4. Files with many add-ons to it. (Example: NAM)

- This is a more of a suggestion that I feel will improve your site by 1000 times. NAM is argueablly the best thing that has happened to Simcity. There are many, many files that enhance NAM that others have done. If one searches NAM on the LEX all kinds of bridges, trains, roads etc enhancemests come up. Why can't all those files be added into one big NAM download. Unlike residentual or commercial lots, with NAM I can pick and choose what I want to use while in game as it just doesn't grow. It's very confusing which files are in the NAM version and which are not even more so to a new member. It also makes for a much cleaner plugin file for slower computers.

5. Dependancy files. (This is a question not a complaint)

- Is it possible to make one big file for each dependancy. Example: One for all textures, one for all the props etc. I'm going to have to download around 75% of them anyways so why not just make one big file of each. Again it would really help clean up the plugin files a lot and make the game load a lot smoother with the added benifet of never having to hunt down dependancies.

Again these are just my opinion's. If I've missed the point of the conversation just delete my entry with no hard feeling.

[Dirktator 2,325]

Although I'm not new to this game itself nor downloading to enhance games (Total war II is the most recent for me), I am new to these simcity sites. I've been downloading to enhance the Simcity 4 game since January of this year and have gotten extremely fustrated a lot.

Reasons

1. Finding the dependancy (The biggest fustration of them all)

- There are some dependancy files that can't be tracked even by googling them for whatever reason. Example: The other day I downloaded the SFBT Trainyard. I found all the dependancy but one. It was by NSD. The problem was that dependancy was apperntly not available as the link lead to a dead page. After some googling he had a mega pack, part 1 and part 2. Not knowing which one to get I downloaded both but the ending result was that either one fixed the problem. It wasn't until I went to your forum that someone lead me to the correct dependancy, which I might add wasn't even listed as needed. Althought I am very gratefull to the person that lead me to the needed dependancy, I should have never had to go to the forum to ask. To much time wasted for one file fustrates people to the point where they won't come back to these kinds of sites.

I think allowing authors to add #id of dependencies will go a long way to help users track down what they all are. There's also a forum for STEX users to "ask here" if you aren't able to find something to get some help, too. Popular links and articles that are more visible should also help matters, so I agree with you totally.

2. The description

- It seems to be normal at all the sites, which I feel it shouldn't be. We have to download the files just to read the description of the lot. Why can't the uploaded just copy and paste the vital parts of the description in the description section before I download it? Believe or not somethings I just don't want for whatever reason and being forced to download the file just to find out it's not what I want is added time taken away from playing the game.

This is really up to the author to do and I agree with the sense behind it.

3. The search engine

- Already been covered by others

Because we just changed the settings to permit 3-letter search terms, we have to wait for the full text index to update before the results can be updated.

4. Files with many add-ons to it. (Example: NAM)

- This is a more of a suggestion that I feel will improve your site by 1000 times. NAM is argueablly the best thing that has happened to Simcity. There are many, many files that enhance NAM that others have done. If one searches NAM on the LEX all kinds of bridges, trains, roads etc enhancemests come up. Why can't all those files be added into one big NAM download. Unlike residentual or commercial lots, with NAM I can pick and choose what I want to use while in game as it just doesn't grow. It's very confusing which files are in the NAM version and which are not even more so to a new member. It also makes for a much cleaner plugin file for slower computers.

Agreed, see above.

5. Dependancy files. (This is a question not a complaint)

- Is it possible to make one big file for each dependancy. Example: One for all textures, one for all the props etc. I'm going to have to download around 75% of them anyways so why not just make one big file of each. Again it would really help clean up the plugin files a lot and make the game load a lot smoother with the added benifet of never having to hunt down dependancies.

This is probably a really good idea. Community, what do you think?

Again these are just my opinion's. If I've missed the point of the conversation just delete my entry with no hard feeling.

Thanks for taking the time to share, I appreciate the thoughtful suggestions.

[Rogue Leader 2]

To Dirktator:

Thanks for fixing the limits on the search bar, but a new issue has arisen: when you search for BSC, NAM, PEG, or any other three letter phrase, even if its part of a larger title, though you are technically allowed to search, it still won't. No results will come up in queries for these words alone, or, if there are more, longer words in the title, it will search by those words only, giving you the same results as when you couldn't search with 3-letter or less words. Just thought you should know.

[Dirktator 2,325]

To Dirktator:

Thanks for fixing the limits on the search bar, but a new issue has arisen: when you search for BSC, NAM, PEG, or any other three letter phrase, even if its part of a larger title, though you are technically allowed to search, it still won't. No results will come up in queries for these words alone, or, if there are more, longer words in the title, it will search by those words only, giving you the same results as when you couldn't search with 3-letter or less words. Just thought you should know.

As mentioned above -- once the full text indexer has finished re-indexing the data, those words will start returning results. Sit tight.

[Tarkus 6,933]

Tarkus, instead of locking files, I guess we should upload a zip with a text file pointing to the new version, and write "locked" across the screenshots and change the description to redirect to the new one, less elegant but nearly just as effective.

That idea had crossed my mind, though I've heard mixed things about the results of folks taking this approach on the STEX in the past. I believe SimMars currently does this, however, and I'd be interested in the STEX Staff's opinion on the matter.

Why can't all those files be added into one big NAM download. Unlike residentual or commercial lots, with NAM I can pick and choose what I want to use while in game as it just doesn't grow. It's very confusing which files are in the NAM version and which are not even more so to a new member. It also makes for a much cleaner plugin file for slower computers.

While the idea has been discussed, there are a few drawbacks that have prevented it from going beyond initial discussion. For the Windows versions, NAM itself is about 20MB compressed, the RHW's around 9MB, the NWM and SAM are 5MB a piece, HSRP RAM, RurP, HSR run about 1MB apiece--meaning a roughly 43MB package there. The myriad of bridges out there run between 1MB up to about 4MB a piece, and if we included them, we'd probably be looking at about a 70MB package.

Would this be convenient for someone just downloading it? Yes, provided they have a good internet connection, and the site hosting it has the bandwidth to handle it. The NAM is the most popular file on every major exchange that hosts it. The statistics I have taken seem to show that it is downloaded an average of about 400 times per day across the board, and the Windows version is downloaded roughly 300 times per day from the STEX, having been downloaded about 90,000 times since I last took statistics this past June.

I will take a look over the current download figures and extract rates from, which should paint a fairly accurate picture of how many folks are downloading each Plugin. I suspect it's not nearly as high, judging by the results of some of my initial calculations. If all the external Plugins are combined into the NAM itself, the rate of download would then be 100%, likely meaning quite a bit more bandwidth.

300 times per day, multiplied by 20MB means the NAM Windows Version uses up 6GB of Simtropolis bandwidth per day (for a 31-day month, that's 186GB for the month). Going to the estimated 43MB size of the Windows "Mega Pack" without bridges and assuming the same download rate, we're looking at 12.9GB of bandwidth per day (399.9GB for a 31-day month). A full set for Windows with all bridges, given my 70MB estimate, would equate to 21GB of bandwidth per day (651GB for a 31-day month). Mac versions are in .zip files, which have a lower compression rate than the NSIS installer package we use for the Windows version, and tend to run about 40-50% larger in filesize. The 300 times per day figure is also an average--it's probably a little bit lower right at the moment, since our last release was 7 months ago, but I'm sure the bandwidth consumption for months in which we release are quite high.

There are also issues with file maintenance with a package that big. What if we have a few new items that are ready that we'd like to release? What if there's a bug or two that needs fixing? Admittedly, we do probably need to re-examine our release paradigm, as things ended up a lot different than we anticipated the last time we took a "big picture look" just before the NAM Version 21 release in June 2007. The only external component file we had then was the RHW, and it was about 2% of the size it is now.

-Alex (Tarkus)

[warrior 169]

To Dirktator:

I don't think one big dependency would be a good idea. It would take far too long to download and likely be cut off at some point on most people's internet connection. Also what would happen with new dependencies?

The best solution is a list of dependencies that have to be filled in as a field. Ideally a team could be put together to go through at least the most popular downloads and update the description to accept the dependency fields.

It should be possible for the server to to unzip the upload (if it is a lot) open the lot files (there are DBPF libraries around and I'm sure there are community members willing to help) and then populate a table in the description on the properties of the lot. Similar to how the SC4Tool can do this.

It would be cool if teams could have pages, like team profiles, which link to latest releases, latest dependecies, tutorials (on the omnibus), link to places on the forum where people can get help. Basically bringing that team's work/etc under one page.

[madhatter106 3,922]

The primary screenshot is at the top of the details listing. Any secondary screenshots are at the bottom.

Why separate/segregate the screenshots? Why not just put them together?

Also, has anyone noticed a screenshot quality hit in the conversion? I checked my uploads and when clicking on screenshots, the images are fuzzy/blurry, and not of the same quality as the exact same screenshots which are contained within the .zip files, though they are seemingly the exact same size...

[paeng 2,525]

I don't think one big dependency would be a good idea.

I pray that'll never happen... it's at the opposite end of my universe! For a long time now I had been hoping that the NAM (and other packs as well) will take the opposite approach - breaking them down into more manageable modular subsets. Might be hard to imagine - but there are indeed folks that don't plop in the whole NAM (or any other of the huge packs) hook, line and sinker, but would really like to just install those components/sets/items they really need/want.

[Exla357 41]

For some reason a my STEX search is returning the same results no matter what I search for, a bunch of map files after searching for, "Light Rail". What's going on?

[warrior 169]

I don't think one big dependency would be a good idea.

I pray that'll never happen... it's at the opposite end of my universe! For a long time now I had been hoping that the NAM (and other packs as well) will take the opposite approach - breaking them down into more manageable modular subsets. Might be hard to imagine - but there are indeed folks that don't plop in the whole NAM (or any other of the huge packs) hook, line and sinker, but would really like to just install those components/sets/items they really need/want.

I was saying that one big pack was a bad idea, the NAM is already split up quite a lot, how much would you like it to be split up?

I mean it is split into the Core NAM, RHW, SAM, NWM, HSRP, etc. And then the Core NAM has many options in the installer where you can choose what you want to install.

[paeng 2,525]

There seems to be a discrepancy on the listing of Stex uploads -

The side block "Recent STEX Files" sometimes shows more items than the listing on the Stex Startpage (/files/category/1-simcity-4/)

Right now there are two ('Telco Building v2 - Darknite' and 'MLG Convention') missing...

[warrior 169]

The links in STEX descriptions appear black and it is hard/impossible to tell they are links,

[SLagonia 71]

Alright, first complaint; The search is awful! First, the four character minimum means that I can't look for very specific things, like lots of a single digit dimension (i.e I can't look for 3x3 lots because 3x3 is only three characters). Second, and most important - Why in hell is there a flood control on the search? So when my search criteria yields nothing I need to spend 90 seconds staring at my screen until I can try another keyword? That flood control really needs to go.

Thanks for reporting this. I actually wasn't aware of this behavior, so it's certainly not intentional. These would be the default parameters set up for the search.

By reporting the issue, it can now be addressed.

I'd like everyone to take a moment and assume that things are new, it's a new system, we're still putting the pieces in, and where we can customize and modify, we will.

Where we haven't, it's likely because we haven't been made aware.

Stating clearly and concisely what the issue is, and how it could be improved is immensely helpful to us, but angst-ridden irate complain-y whiny posts are less helpful overall.

I'm not sure if you're accusing me of being whiny, but that was not the intention... And honestly, that's a kinda condesending thing to say considering I did make a clear and concise post. It's not like my post was "OMG, yOu GuYs SuXoRs!!!!! chaNgE the seArch Pleeeez!!! THX."

If that's not what you are saying, then I apologize.

  Edited March 11, 2011 by SLagonia  

[J0nnD0ugh 31]

Search looks much better today. Much easier to find what I'm looking for. Thanks a bunch.

[gtx 2]

Categories should be included, such as airports, parking lots, railway stations, etc.

[Dirktator 2,325]

First of all.. Thanks for everything that Simtropolis has to offer, this website is my favorite website of all time!

Thanks Dirk!

1. I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned.. but when you search STEX through the little search bar in the top right.. I would recommend little thumbnails to make it a lot easier. I'm sure a cached version of the old stex is better... just teasing! :b

2. This isn't really a suggestion.. but more of a question.

Where did the ads go!?

All of this work is probably volunteer for Simtropolis.. but I have to admit.. some things costs money. It may not be my personal interest in how you pay for Simtropolis, and the bandwidth.. but I'm surprised to see no ads to generate revenue to keep the site going!

For that, I'm forever thankful!

Thumbnails do appear for search results now.

To Dirktator:

Thanks for fixing the limits on the search bar, but a new issue has arisen: when you search for BSC, NAM, PEG, or any other three letter phrase, even if its part of a larger title, though you are technically allowed to search, it still won't. No results will come up in queries for these words alone, or, if there are more, longer words in the title, it will search by those words only, giving you the same results as when you couldn't search with 3-letter or less words. Just thought you should know.

This is now working and returning results for 3-letter words. 3-letters is the absolute minimum however, anything less just takes too much of a hit on the search and doesn't really return useful results.

[american15 5]

Well, I do have two suggestions:

1.) It might be a little more convenient to add an "everything" filter in the search bar.

2.) I noticed that there is a little option bar that says Simtropolis 7 in the bottom left corner of each page. Is there going to be an option to switch back to Simtropolis 6 if we wanted to?

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

I not happy with the pictures on the STEX, the quailty when down and I do not like that, and it seems to be smaller. In ST verson 6 in the reply you can add a table, can you put that in this verson.