wllLot Creator's BAT Zone

[Lot Creator 304]

Hello there!

This will be my future and present BAT desk

Here a small project for now

Civ V highway sign:

Update:

---

---

New and improved nuclear plant

with improments

finished product

final work done

Mw: 40000

Lc

[nathanthemayor 1,261]

Welcome to Batting!

Actually, that looks more like a billboard. If you know how, a BAT render would do well.

Good luck!

[b22rian 153]

the detail here looks utterly fantastic

this is easily the best power plant which has ever been batted..!!!

all the best,

Brian

[Mithokey 96]

Thiis is so amazing... PLEEEEEEEEASE put this up on the STEX!!!

[chpbrownlee 127]

Very nice work LC, this is easily one of the best power plants I've seen out there.

[SimHoTToDDy 2,938]

Originally posted by: b22rian

the detail here looks utterly fantastic

this is easily the best power plant which has ever been batted..!!!

all the best,

Brianquote>

Originally posted by: Mithokey

Thiis is so amazing... PLEEEEEEEEASE put this up on the STEX!!!quote>

Originally posted by: simfreak1998

Very nice work LC, this is easily one of the best power plants I've seen out there.quote>

I really hope you are being sarcastic here. The BAT actually lacks every and all detail and should be more closely equated with a collection of primitive shapes rather than a nuclear power plant. To say that this is the best is to discredit almost every other power plant ever made.

You deserve your opinion and may think the way you like, but saying that something like this is giving Lot Creator a very bad impression of the quality he should be aiming for.

Lot Creator: as I mentioned to you in Chat, you need to focus on details and getting the right shape and size of the building you are trying to make. The second attempt is a little bit closer to the size you need, but is still overly simple. It is more like a sketch than a finished product. Please do not put this on the STEX.

In fact, you are better off starting with something much smaller, preferably a real building, and give each component lots of attention and plenty of detail. then, when you move up to a large project such as this, you will know that every part, from the reactors, to the smokestacks, to the main building, to the roof junk needs to be developed fully and realistically instead of being a few simple boxes. 

Take a look at these to get an idea of what goes into even a small power plant:

1

2

3

Best of luck,

-Todd

[clarkjordan12345 108]

According to SimHoTToDDy, you're all idiots :L

[SimHoTToDDy 2,938]

Just for future reference, listen to the advice people give you here. People don't do it to be mean, they do it because they want to see you improve. I want to see you become a pro, but you have to take the first piece of advice before you can get there.

Best of luck buddy,

-Todd

[mightygoose 92]

also look at the form of your subject, why are there 2large reactors and one small, why five smokestacks?, why is the turbine hall so asymmetrical. on another note, bin every texture you have used. they are horrid.

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Originally posted by: clarkjordan12345

According to SimHoTToDDy, you're all idiots :Lquote>

Please refrain from accusing others of insulting forum members. If Todd had meant to say that anybody is an idiot, he would have called them idiots.

The way you posted this, YOU are raising the term "idiots" and using it on the three first posters, yet by adding "According to SimHoTToDDy", you hide behind him. That's rather shabby behaviour, if you ask me - not to mention that it doesn't contribute anything constructive to this thread. I don't want to read any more posts like this one here (or anywhere else in the forum sections I moderate, for that matter).

And just for clarification, nobody is an idiot because he utters his opinion. Any opinion may be judged by others as overly critical or overly enthusiastic, as unfounded, as vague, or whatever. Likewise, everybody is entitled to voice such a judgment in a way that is centered on the topic and its content, and not on insulting a particular person. All this is part of a healthy and constructive discussion - calling each other names clearly isn't.

[Lot Creator 304]

I just get tired, really not so much as my first large BAT and everyone just call it ugly, to be sure IT is a FIRST not a best or wonderful. So far, i feel like insulted not to be mean, so this topic is locked in terms that i shall no longer upload anything in this Fourum. acually the original propuse of the Upload was to make it abilable for mithokey and others, not for critics pull out their sharp sticks. REFRAIN from comments. I think this is why some loters and BATers leave simtropolis and don't return, because it is too much to bear, instead of telling them how to perform better. Yes i will be try to make more , but to put it here, idk.

LC

[DCMetro34 576]

First off, the first thing you make in BAT doesn't have to go on the STEX. My current project (Greenbelt Metro Station) is probably the 10th thing I've made in BAT. PLUS, I have been working on that BAT for about 7 months....so BATting takes a lot TLC (Time, Labor, and Commitment). A BAT of that size isn't going to take less than a month, if it is of very high quality, at least.

And don't look at comments and critique as being "mean", especially SimHoTToDDy's. The meat of his post was trying to help you, even if the shell seemed mean. If a BAT expert had posted some advice of that magnitude in my BAT thread, I would be VERY thankful for it.

Also, If you want to upload your BAT to a few people, upload it to a site like Mediafire, instead of taking up bandwidth on the STEX.

I don't mean to be harsh, but you can't expect to get "kudos" for an unfinished BAT, regardless of who wants it. There were (notice I say "were") people who wanted to help you become a better BATter. Show some effort, and they may give you advice again.

You cannot rush a STEX upload, no matter how you sugarcoat it, it never works.....trust me.

My advice: Bring this project back to the table, and ask for advice. Last step is following the advice, of course. That's the only way of becoming a better BATter. Time can't be a concern when BATting, it just simply can't. I can't stress that last sentence anymore.

Good luck.

DC

[nathanthemayor 1,261]

To put it this way, I was worse off than you when i started Batting. This was my first bat and yes I know it looked bad and got only a 2.3 rating!!

Ewww!

But now all of my latest Bats have gotten 3.0s+ and even 4.0+. Here's one as an example.

As I would put it, my first BAT was a crumbled block of Cheese. But the one above is nice and solid,and it got a 3.6 rating.

Here's my suggestion:

Start small, like I did(In this case the billbaord). Then maybe after you get the hang of things, you can do bigger things like the power plants.

-GL on your projects!!

  Edited May 10, 2012 by nathanthemayor  

[SimHoTToDDy 2,938]

You are missing the whole point of comments. You are missing the whole point of why I come to these forums. I come because I like to help people. I like to watch them improve. I like to see them go from making underdeveloped models like the one you just released to something intricate, realistic and beautiful.

The thing you are missing is that you can never get there without the "sharp sticks". If no one even pokes you and tells you that you can improve X and fix Y so that you would learn and your model would be better as a result, then you would just keep making the same things over and over and never improve.

There is a difference between criticism, and constructive criticism. If I wanted to criticize, I probably wouldn't be here because it is not helpful. Criticism (which can be good or bad) is just saying "greatest bat evar!!!1!" or "this sucks". Being constructive isn't just saying something is good or bad, but saying why it is good or bad. If it is bad, point out things that can make it better and help the creator learn from their mistakes.

I aim to be constructive and I believe I have been in almost every post I make regarding your situation and the situation of all BATers (new or "pro"). If you don't like that, that's fine but I'll still give you my advice. If you choose to ignore it, that is your prerogative. As I have said to many new Baters who had their feelings hurt because no one liked their models, I am here to help.

I love Simtropolis because people will tell me what I don't want to hear. They will tell me that there is something wrong with what I am doing. I want them to tell me those things because I know that it will help me make my model better. I post on many forums and not vary many places have such a supportive community that is willing to spend so much time pointing someone in the right direction. It is truly a blessing, I hope for the day you see it this way.

[Mithokey 96]

SimHoTToDDy... everything you just said, well I think it could have been said in a nicer way. That lot looks amazing to me (not saying that sarcastically or not just saying that to be nice).

If you don't like that lot, then please dont be saying horrible things to all of us. Say positive constructive critisism. Lot is a new BATTer so please say some nice stuff to him and acctually encourage him, cause with all of that negativness... its not helping people. I think a good coach teaches people without being harsh... thankyou.

[SimHoTToDDy 2,938]

It doesn't matter if you like it. It doesn't matter if I like it. There are some models that I like that others may call "crappy". But liking something and having it be as good as it ought to be are different things. Even if I liked this model, I would still point out how it could be improved. Me simply liking it doesn't help anyone. There are models that I LOVE and use frequently in SC4, but wish I was there to point out how to help improve it. I'm sorry if I come across as angry or upset. That being said, how much more explicit can I be when I say that I am trying to help (I'll quote myself if I have to)?

Saying something is wonderful is as productive as saying it is terrible, that is if you don't say (accurately) what makes it so good/bad. Simply saying something is wonderful (and nothing else) enforces an incorrect assumption on the end of the creator that his work is without flaw and, thus, can not be improved. This is never true. I'm certainly not perfect, if you know where to look you can find just as many faults in my work. I really don't understand why so many people think I'm good. I'm just good at covering up that I don't have much skill

(honestly speaking) What in particular was so offensive and inflammatory? How would you propose I said it? I would really like to know how to communicate the same ideas with the same impact and not hurt anyone's feelings. Perhaps that is wishful thinking because I will never be able to please everyone, but at the very least give me a chance.

Edits

[harishna 847]

I don't see the big fuzz about what simhottoddy said I don't see how he was rude, he was just being honest and helpful. If people tell you you are the best at something just because they don't want to hurt your feelings, then that people opinion has no value as they are not being honest, in the same way if someone that knows very little about apples tells you those are the best darn apples, again that opinion is of very little value. If lot creator wants to quit BATing that is his own decision, there is people here that had receive harder criticism and haven't quit, and jut because you are new that doesn't mean your BAT's have to be bad, there are a lot of people that take their time before releasing a first BAT because they understand that is more important to learn first how to create something that looks decent than releasing stuff (I include my self amongst them). Hope I made my point clear.

[gutterclub 2,729]

Crystal.

This seems like a group of friends getting on the defensive, if you wish to just share with each other thatsgreat, but uploading both the BAT and progress pics to a pubic forum then you are asking for your work to be commented on.

As for Nathans comments, if you only upload for ratings then I personally don't think it's for the right reasons and can lead to releasing things when they are not ready..I released a few things, whether they were ready or not I'm not sure,however I don't think I've even checked their ratings or really care, I just hope people enjoy them.

[zahrul3 471]

Todd missed the objective though his comments would be more appropriate. The BAT im working on now is my 16th BAT though I am positively accepting comments and at will, dump anything substandard whenever I get some new help. A 'good' BAT is a BAT with a rating above 4.5 and gets a lot of positive comments from more experienced BATters. Also put BETA uploads on Mediafire or a mirror server so it does not waste bandwidth on the STEX. Yes, rating counts, it tells that people are loving your BAT.

[SimHoTToDDy 2,938]

Todd missed the objective quote>

And what was that?

[gutterclub 2,729]

Originally posted by: zahrul3Yes, rating counts, it tells that people are loving your BAT.quote>

Counts for or to what exactly?

Titanic was the highest grossing movie of all time..just goes to show "people" aren't always right ; 

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Ok guys, I reckon all key opinions have been voiced, could we try to get this back on topic?

I'll summarise those points that I hope can be agreed upon by everyone:

1) Participation in a public forum implies facing a public discussion of one's work. That's the purpose of a forum. If you want to share something among friends in private, you can do so by e-mail / messenger / social networks and/or file hosters and lock out the "general public".

2) Constructive comments are always welcome, insults against persons aren't.

3) "Constructive" means anything that helps the creator. An occasional pat on the shoulder can be helpful in a moral sense, but in most cases "constructive" is meant in a technical sense, e.g. by telling the creator what looks good and what could be improved (and how). A general assessment concerning the overall status of the BAT can also be a helpful feedback, i.e. telling the creator your opinion as to whether the BAT looks like all major shortcomings have been ironed out and it's ready for upload or whether the BAT looks like it needs some more work.

As a rule of thumb, you could say: Do encourage the BATter, but don't be afraid scrutinize his/her BAT and point out weaknesses and possible improvements.

A comment that lists many shortcomings can be very helpful and constructive, but on the other hand a comment like the "best BAT evar!1!" that Todd mentioned is made with best intentions, but it isn't really constructive. It can give the creator a wrong impression, and that's the opposite of constructive. You could thank the person instead by saying "Thank you so much for making this" or something similar.

4) We all know that ratings are of limited use - they can hint at a certain tendency, but people might rate building A better than building B because they need that building type more than B, or because they don't like the colour of B, or because they like the creator of A, or because they accidentally hit the wrong star when rating B. Whether you place much importance on ratings is entirely up to you, but personally speaking, I'd recommend not to take those ratings too seriously.

@ Lot Creator: It's entirely up to you whether you'd like to continue this thread. It depends on your plans, but if you want to continue showing your work in public, then you should be prepared for some critique concerning your BATs. People don't write their opinion about you to hurt your feelings. They write their opinion about your BAT in order to help you get better.

[Slashback 136]

^ Well said, T Wrecks. Constructive critic as always.

[b22rian 153]

[Q]Originally posted by: T Wrecks

2) Constructive comments are always welcome, insults against persons aren't.

3) "Constructive" means anything that helps the creator. An occasional pat on the shoulder can be helpful in a moral sense, but in most cases "constructive" is meant in a technical sense, e.g. by telling the creator what looks good and what could be improved (and how). A general assessment concerning the overall status of the BAT can also be a helpful feedback, i.e. telling the creator your opinion as to whether the BAT looks like all major shortcomings have been ironed out and it's ready for upload or whether the BAT looks like it needs some more work.

As a rule of thumb, you could say: Do encourage the BATter, but don't be afraid scrutinize his/her BAT and point out weaknesses and possible improvements.

A comment that lists many shortcomings can be very helpful and constructive, but on the other hand a comment like the "best BAT evar!1!" that Todd mentioned is made with best intentions, but it isn't really constructive. It can give the creator a wrong impression, and that's the opposite of constructive. You could thank the person instead by saying "Thank you so much for making this" or something similar.

OK, thanks for your comments  T Wrecks..

Id like to point out a few things though if i might...

First let me correct and say I didnt say "the best bat ever"

i said it was the best power plant bat of which I havent seen many before, so to me it was my honest

opinion.. that the bat was the best I have seen of this genre..

Basically, as you pointed out you want to do 2 things with comments...

1) ... i feel you want to be postive and encouraging to a new batter like LC..

2)... you want to provide constructive criticism and Simhottoddy than went the "extra mile"

    by providing help and some good pics as examples.. well done..

Im mostly a transit modder so i have limited knowledge with batting, That being the case Im not in a very good

position to provide technical batting criiticisms or help.. So I didnt..

As someone with a degree in teaching I certainly understand the importance I feel though of being encouraging

and positive with someone new to batting.. So those are the type of comments that should come from someone in

my postion with no batting experience..

And than the other side which are the help with batting we have coming from simhottoddy who is a very good batter

no question...

So I dont see much an issue here at all, as a collection of comments both the 2 goals you mentioned above T Wrecks

have been realized in this thread.. And I hope were all on the same page here now.

Also I do hope LC will continue on with his batting work..

Finally i fully agree that personal attacks on one another have no place in this thread or the community at large..

Thanks, Brian

[T Wrecks 10,209]

No worries, Brian. That "best BAT evar!" was just a slightly humourous generic example for some very enthusiastic, but technically not that constructive and reflected posts that can be seen once in a while. I didn't address anyone in person for a reason. 

As far as I am concerned, we're all on the same page - hopefully even after a page flip. 

[Mithokey 96]

I agree with Brian... Lot is a new BATer and people should be encouraging him, not just saying negative stuff all of the time. The positive stuff will make people learn better and end in no fighting.

[Lot Creator 304]

As i said before, i will continue BATing but i shall no longer post them here because it seems that everyone that critics it comes and points this tread out saing that it was my fault of not "obeying" simhottoday's advice. but i will continue, in fact I may even do a small execption for some things, like the Civ V sign . Anyway like everyone in the HD and myself, BAT newbies and new loters should be encourged with comments like "well, it is not the best thing in the STEX but it can improve" things like that, in fact a LCPP V2.1 may come out soon.

Have a nice day and thanks to the HD and T wreaks.

LC

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Originally posted by: Mithokey

I agree with Brian... Lot is a new BATer and people should be encouraging him, not just saying negative stuff all of the time.quote>

i think you missed the point... Critique like, for example "the proportions look off" or "the windows are misaligned" or whatever is not "negative stuff". It's helpful. It helps people see where they can improve. If they had seen it themselves, they would have fixed it already. Hence it's obvious that they can benefit from other peoples' help and expertise.

Of course anyone can dismiss critique as "being negative", feel offended, and make a quick release. Then, however, he/she should not complain, should less than stellar success be the result. 

Originally posted by: Mithokey The positive stuff will make people learn better and end in no fighting.quote>

Once again, this depends on what "positive stuff" you mean. When you see a BAT with, let's say, misaligned windows and you say "It's great, superb stuff", then the creator will not learn anything and not get better. However, if you point out the misalignment, he'll have a chance to notice the shortcoming, and to ask how to fix it if he doesn't succeed on his own (or to prevent such misalignment in the first place). This is where experienced BATters will step in and explain ways to fix the problem or provide links to helpful information. Step by step, the BAT will get better this way, and the BATter will learn a lot of new stuff he may never have figured out or thought of, or at least by far not that quickly.

You don't learn by being told that everything is fine all the time. Look at schools: teachers will correct their students, and they will say when something was not that good. They will point out what else could have been said or done so you know better for the next time. The same counts when you learn a new sport: A trainer will often correct your movements, and he might have to tell you that something you are doing is wrong and show you how it's done better.

However, both you and Lot Creator seem to view this process as personal attacks on you and as attempts to force you into "obedience". As long as this is the case and a simple warning that a BAT shows some problems that you could be able to fix before a release is regarded as negative, offensive, discouraging and outrageous, opening a public forum thread really misses the point and lacks sense.

You know, people here suppose that anyone who opens a thread is interested in getting feedback and help, critique and support. That's the point of having a discussion forum.

This thread, however, was apparently opened unter completely different assumptions, so it started with a misunderstanding. If this thread is to be continued in order to present "finished" stuff to friends who requested it and a discussion is not desired, then I don't have a problem with that, either - however, I cannot guarantee that everybody will read everything and refrain from posting, and I will not delete comments that contain critique, as long as it is constructive, i.e. helpful to make a creation better.

[zahrul3 471]

It would be the same thing if you did this at forums like SC4D, european language sites, etc. etc. The only other active forum is SC4D, European-language SC4 sites(SFBT-which is german) and Japanese sites(a ton of them). Your files could just be blocked as it is a waste of bandwidth(it is 1MB+). It seems you haven't done phillipbo's tutorials or tutorials on threads of way more advanced BATters(eg. SimFox, JasonCW's blog, bixel, all NYBT, early simhottoddy and madhatter). You also haven't known that all of our very first BATs we tried looked much worse than your first one.

[nathanthemayor 1,261]

You also haven't known that all of our very first BATs we tried looked much worse than your first one.quote>

Good point...that was my case

@lotcreator::I suggest to get a preview render of what you are showcasing. If you don't know already, go under "Utilites-BAT-Preview(be sure to set LODs right first)". I think that the powerplants are overscaled.Try to underscale it a little bit:It will look better.Also, the lettering on the power plant is 1)Misligned and 2)Really looks ugly. . As well, please don't quit batting. Remember this phrase:

You'll always miss 100% of the shots you don't takequote>

Good luck with your projects!